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Blizzard let us down :(

13

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  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Randayn

    Blizzard is the Justin Beiber, One Direction, Taylor Swift of MMO's.  They cater to the "pop culture".  In order to understand the "pop culture" you must first learn how to shut your brain off.  Then you must watch non-stop cliche citcoms on t.v. over and over again until you get nosebleeds. 

    Now you are ready for Blizzard...

    What about the fact that this rotation actually requires quite a lot of your brain being switched on?

    Certainly if you want to provide a lot of examples of games with deeper combat, I'll welcome them, since I actually prefer MMORPGs with deep gameplay.  Keep in mind I want to actively engage in deep gameplay, and not switch my brain off between rare-but-meaningful decisions.

    But yeah, presumably if you're calling WOW the pop game you have to have a whole list of deeper MMORPGs where the decisions are tight and important, so bring em on!

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
     Anything that does not force memorisation of  the ' optimal rotations' ie reactive gameplay instead of whack a mole/embed the theorcrafted single optimal pattern into muscle memory to ensure you spam spells 95% of the time..  yup spam.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • cesmode8cesmode8 Member UncommonPosts: 431

    The idea of a Diablo MMO is awesome.  None of this fantasy world, elf and orc stuff.  The world of sanctuary, pandamonium, high heavens, and hell would be an awesome setting and a great change of pace to a saturated MMO market.  

    I'd buy it...hell, Id pre-order it.

     

  • laokokolaokoko Member UncommonPosts: 2,004

    Maybe they realized they can spend 1% of the effort and make the same amount of money with moba and card game.

    Skyrim make much more money than ESO, with less effort and up keep.  

    People actually care about money isn't going to spend more money/effort to make less.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    Blizzard is making games that dont compete with themselves. Why make WoW 2 when it would just pull people from WoW 1? It would only add development cost and not make them more money + the cost of updating 2 MMOs. Thats how Blizzard is looking at it. My guess we will see an new Blizzard MMO when WoW rapidly declines and settles into a fix number of hard core WoW gamers. 
  • RandaynRandayn Member UncommonPosts: 904
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Randayn

    Blizzard is the Justin Beiber, One Direction, Taylor Swift of MMO's.  They cater to the "pop culture".  In order to understand the "pop culture" you must first learn how to shut your brain off.  Then you must watch non-stop cliche citcoms on t.v. over and over again until you get nosebleeds. 

    Now you are ready for Blizzard...

    What about the fact that this rotation actually requires quite a lot of your brain being switched on?

    Certainly if you want to provide a lot of examples of games with deeper combat, I'll welcome them, since I actually prefer MMORPGs with deep gameplay.  Keep in mind I want to actively engage in deep gameplay, and not switch my brain off between rare-but-meaningful decisions.

    But yeah, presumably if you're calling WOW the pop game you have to have a whole list of deeper MMORPGs where the decisions are tight and important, so bring em on!

    Anarchy Online and The Secret World...I can probably think of others, but these pop in my head more than most

    image
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,480
    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by Letsinod  Lots and lots of people tried it but couldn't get into its "harcore" poltiic BS.

    I imagine most people, like me, stopped playing Lineage 1 long before we got to any politics-related tier of progression.  The core game was a dead-boring grind, just like Lineage 2, but worse graphics.  That's what stopped most.

    Oh I guess that sentence was in regards to EQ not L1?  Still, the dead-boring grind part really applies to all pre-WOW MMORPGs so I guess what I said still applies.

     

    Explain what you mean about dead boring grind, are you talking about grinding mobs instead of doing quest hubs with npcs with markers over there heads. If so it wasn't WoW that bought us that.




  • KaladinKaladin Member Posts: 468
    I prefer to react to what companies actually release.  I don't sit and wait in anticipation of a game that is only in the conceptual stage.  FAR more games than we know about fail at that stage than actually make it to production, let alone a full release.

    I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
    And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
    Hurt - Wars

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    I feel the same way, however... They do currently have the most popular mmorpg.  The card game is more popular then any game on the market besides LOL.  And their moba is extremely popular as well.  SC2 Still has a huge playerbase and Diablo 3 also has tons of players.  Face it just because you don't like their games doesn't mean the rest of the world does too.  The market is proving that Blizzard is making right decisions hence their income and popularity.  I agree their development has been complete garbage but it IS working and they ARE making tons of money.  2013 Blizzard was the most profitable stand alone game developer behind Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft.  You  sir are just plain WRONG!!
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • VelifaxVelifax Member UncommonPosts: 413
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Velifax 

    everything else, WoW popularity, funness, epic ness, fan base size, the effect of WoW on the genre, etc, is totally irrelevant. Blizzard really did just blatantly copy EQ and advertise more. Like, objectively.

    WOW did advertise more, but as a result of their having a superior game where advertising revenue paid for itself far better than other games (which is why it was worth it to continually re-invest into advertising.)   This isn't the case in other games due to their gameplay.

    ...

    Because of how this works WOW did eventually advertise way more than typical games, but the heart of WOW's engine has always been its gameplay.  To this day I haven't found a single MMORPG with combat deeper than WOW's.  Often MMORPGs get one thing right while failing at the other (TOR had great rotations, but zero mob variety to make things dynamic; FFXIV kinda seems to have the opposite problem with flat rotations but pretty good mob variety.)

    Hey, a reasoned response.

    I have to concede, my remark was pretty hyperbolic. I meant that they blatantly copied EQ, then added their own flavor, specifically, as other have noted, dumbing it down for the masses. In spite of this they retained an amazing combat model, albeit moving rather markedly toward action, and away from RPG.

    So yes, I agree that the combat is substantially better than other games, for an action game. I object to your implication that WoW succeeded because its combat was better. It was merely more actiony, which appeals to the masses more. That doesn't make it superior (except in terms of numeric appeal).

    I heartily agree about FFXIV and WoW. I am thoroughly addicted to WoW's combat, longest I've lasted unsubscribed is six months since Vanilla. Did try FFXIV, mobs were very cool but, as you noted, the combat was akin to GW2; three button mashing.

  • VelifaxVelifax Member UncommonPosts: 413
    Originally posted by Randayn

    Blizzard is the Justin Beiber, One Direction, Taylor Swift of MMO's.  They cater to the "pop culture".  In order to understand the "pop culture" you must first learn how to shut your brain off.  Then you must watch non-stop cliche citcoms on t.v. over and over again until you get nosebleeds.

     

    Now you are ready for Blizzard...

    I agree with everything you said, with one caveat; except the combat.

    As other posters point out, the combat is WoW is superb, and seems to get large chunks of development resources. One may disagree abouthow enjoyable the combat is, but that is a different discussion, and largely subjective.

    But yes, the lore, the music, the graphics, the dialogue, the environment, the progression, etc, is largely McWoW.

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    Hipsters invading MMOs
  • RaquisRaquis Member RarePosts: 1,029
    anyone that buys and subscribes to a game is an idiot!
  • KaledrenKaledren Member UncommonPosts: 312
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Are you a Blizzard fan? Blizzard north only made one of those games. Blizzard North did not make SC1, WC3, WoW.

    SC2 is the best strategy game of all time. It's a true successor of SC1.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_North

    Read this, you should educate yourself before making posts like this.

    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    The past 10 years of development in WoW shows that they have no idea how to make an MMO. They just designed a simple version of EQ, which was already popular, and advertised the shit out of it.

     

    That's all Blizzard has ever done well, really. Rehash old ideas for a new market, and dumb it down for mass audiences.

    Don't make me laugh. WoW became popular because it was an amazing game. Trust me all those millions people didn't flock to WoW because EQ was popular. There were tons of BLizzard fans who loved their games. Blizzard's fanbase at the time of WoW's launch was massive and EQ was insignificant in comparison. WoW achieved a number of players that was bigger than the entire MMO industry back in 2004.

    WoW was fun and it was epic. And it was set in a universe which was a hundredfold more popular than the niche EQ. MOst gamers haven't even heard of EQ.

    I know it's hard for EQ fanboys to swallow this, but WOW put this genre on the map.

     

    LOL! OOooook. EQ/UO  put this genre on the map...otherwise, there would be no WoW to begin with.

  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,345

    I've noticed Blizz are devoting more dev time to their moba and card game & Overwatch intro movie rather than releasing the whole Tanaan zone at launch of WoD. 

     

    What that means for the future I don't know. If Hearthstone and HoTS make mo' money then they will be getting the polished releases while WoW gets the lip service expac launches. :S

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Member UncommonPosts: 907
    Originally posted by Raquis
    anyone that buys and subscribes to a game is an idiot!

    Then mark me as an Idiot.

    I hate Capitalism.... and I mean I HATE it..... however that is how the world rolls, with capitalism and lots of money grease. The Devs need to eat, pay mortgage and utilities, afford medical dental, live life, have kids and AFFORD to raise them, ad infinitum.... it's not the fault of the Devs that Bankers convinced our forefathers to be idiots.

    It is right and proper for an Online game to charge a purchase cost and even an subscription if it is a MMORPG. There are real world expenses incurred with the operation of an online game and it is right for those who enjoy it to bear the burden of it's costs.

    Any other way to look at it, to explain away why we players should not pay for our entertainment, is just plain selfish, and the term "selfish" is just another word for Evil. I'd rather be considered an idiot than selfish in this instance.

     

    I am not exactly a fan of WoW, I have played it, I did enjoy some of it, but that is not the point, the point IS that the Blizzard has the right as a business to charge a purchase price and charge a subscription if that is what it takes to fund their product.

     

  • laokokolaokoko Member UncommonPosts: 2,004
    Originally posted by nyxium

    I've noticed Blizz are devoting more dev time to their moba and card game & Overwatch intro movie rather than releasing the whole Tanaan zone at launch of WoD. 

     

    What that means for the future I don't know. If Hearthstone and HoTS make mo' money then they will be getting the polished releases while WoW gets the lip service expac launches. :S

     

    It's already happening.  I think one of the video's on the site says Blizzard makes as much money with their cardgame and something else compare to wow.

    I have no idea why developer want to make mmorpg this days.  It seemed they can make more money with other game types.

  • NapkinBoxNapkinBox Member Posts: 6
    If there's one thing I hate about Blizzard, it's that they genuinely believe the people who play their games are 5 year old retards who don't know how to work a mouse. "You want us to do what? No no, our players will not be able to understand! They would have to... *gasp* learn!"
  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member EpicPosts: 1,960

    You know, I just have to chuckle at stuff like this. 

    People foamed at the mouth and bashed D3 because it tried doing things differently from D2. Some worked, some didn't, but things have smoothed out and the game is generally considered by most people to be quite good. 

    SC2 on the other hand, was almost a carbon copy of SC1 in terms of game play. Yet the same people bashing D3 for not being enough like D2 turn around and bash SC2 because it was too much like SC1!

    It's what I like to call, "Blizzard can't win". They just can't. Doesn't matter what they do, what ideas they implement, what design decisions they make, what marketing they use, nothing created after WoW's TBC expansion will ever be good to these people. They will find anything at all the complain about, and when they can't find anything, they make shit up (Remember all the D3 accounts with authenticators which were supposedly 'hacked'?)

    I just laugh and shake my head. Blizzard haters are gonna hate no matter what happens. 

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • thinktank001thinktank001 Member UncommonPosts: 2,144
    Originally posted by DevilSeph

    Good Old Blizzard North, we had SC1, Warcraft 3, D2 than they proved that they can make MMO-s like vanilla WoW.

    More than 10 years passed and they let us down!  by now we should have gotten some Diablo mmo or SC mmo but all we got is some card games, some pandas and murlocks, huge fail d3 and some cheap ass over simplified anoying moba called hots ( murlock hero included which usually is troll pick to loose...)

    Where is our SC mmo :(

     

     

    I assume many have stated already, but blizzard north was dismantled a long time ago.   The current version of blizzard doesn't have any intention of providing a quality standalone title until WOW begins to falter.   I would be surprised if they produced anything but microtransaction based games from this point on.    

  • DevilSephDevilSeph Member UncommonPosts: 147
    Originally posted by filmoret
    I feel the same way, however... They do currently have the most popular mmorpg.  The card game is more popular then any game on the market besides LOL.  And their moba is extremely popular as well.  SC2 Still has a huge playerbase and Diablo 3 also has tons of players.  Face it just because you don't like their games doesn't mean the rest of the world does too.  The market is proving that Blizzard is making right decisions hence their income and popularity.  I agree their development has been complete garbage but it IS working and they ARE making tons of money.  2013 Blizzard was the most profitable stand alone game developer behind Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft.  You  sir are just plain WRONG!!

    Bro ? chill down pls, i was talking about mmos not crapy card games and button smashing rpg-s and if I'm not wrong they are straching same shit over and over for 10 years which is not nice and player base went down from 14 mill to 6 mill and will go down to 3 soon only chinese will play it because they like pandas. ( i still coulden't get over pandas )

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet

    You know, I just have to chuckle at stuff like this. 

    People foamed at the mouth and bashed D3 because it tried doing things differently from D2. Some worked, some didn't, but things have smoothed out and the game is generally considered by most people to be quite good. 

    SC2 on the other hand, was almost a carbon copy of SC1 in terms of game play. Yet the same people bashing D3 for not being enough like D2 turn around and bash SC2 because it was too much like SC1!

    It's what I like to call, "Blizzard can't win". They just can't. Doesn't matter what they do, what ideas they implement, what design decisions they make, what marketing they use, nothing created after WoW's TBC expansion will ever be good to these people. They will find anything at all the complain about, and when they can't find anything, they make shit up (Remember all the D3 accounts with authenticators which were supposedly 'hacked'?)

    I just laugh and shake my head. Blizzard haters are gonna hate no matter what happens. 

    Its interesting that Blizzards attittude to Diablo is so far removed from WOW isn't it.  No sub, but they invest well, the game improves over time.  Then look at how WOW stagnates, it suggests they have simply ran out of ideas and consider WOW to be their cash cow.    

    While customers blindly defend blizzard they will feel its ok to continue because they dont care about exceeding expectations, its a poor investment strategy, massive profits and allowing WOW to stagnate.  Proof?  No content in 14 months before expansion and last patch - selfies.  1 billion revenue a year.  

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    Proof...they told you there would be no content...it might amaze you but people like the game. EVE takes your cash and creates no new content....but everyone is fine with that.

    Blindly defend while you blindly attack.
  • TimesplitTimesplit Member UncommonPosts: 191
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by DevilSeph

    Good Old Blizzard North, we had SC1, Warcraft 3, D2 than they proved that they can make MMO-s like vanilla WoW.

    More than 10 years passed and they let us down!  by now we should have gotten some Diablo mmo or SC mmo but all we got is some card games, some pandas and murlocks, huge fail d3 and some cheap ass over simplified anoying moba called hots ( murlock hero included which usually is troll pick to loose...)

    Where is our SC mmo :(

     

     

    I assume many have stated already, but blizzard north was dismantled a long time ago.   The current version of blizzard doesn't have any intention of providing a quality standalone title until WOW begins to falter.   I would be surprised if they produced anything but microtransaction based games from this point on.    

    This is pretty much all that needs to be said. Blizzard doesn't need to do anything currently, unless they think WoW is in danger financially, so they actually have to create another quality game. The thing is though, creating another game that isn't following or copying another developer has been proven to be difficult for them.

    Hell, (no pun intended) Diablo wasn't even created at Blizzard to begin with, but it was made by a team they later picked up. The change from Diablo 1 to Diablo 3's style is painfully apparent, that they were thinking of a more accessible approach.

  • xaritscinxaritscin Member UncommonPosts: 350

    its funny how all the comments bash or defend Blizzard when the OP is basically bitching about why Blizzard hasnt made an Starcraft MMO.

    as i said in another thread similar like this. looking at the development of the Starcraft IP you cannot really expect they will be able to come out with an MMO. Starcraft has so many ties to its own gameplay and each race is so unique that it would require to create distinct gameplay for each one of them. in fact, they would have to gut the IP if they would catter to the audience because outside of the Terran:

    1. the Protosss dont have piloted mechs, their reavers and colossi are basically drones, their ranged units are crippled individuals or have their minds transferred to a machine, you dont see a zealot with a gun for example. the rest of the units are either psionic casters or melee fighters. outside of the Psionic gameplay there's not much versatility for the protoss in terms of what they can do if players would choose the for an MMO character.

    2. the Zerg are glorified eusocial insects (or benevolent Tyranids if you want to look it that way), outside from Kerrigan and other mutated Terran characters, the Zerg dont have the equivalent to a humanoid unit, each of its units are of animal ancestry and are pigeonholed into a single role in the swarm as a whole. if the Zerg were to be added into an MMO they would have to get a next step into their evolution (which is something that should had happened already with Kerring, dunno why they havent yet).

    the Terran like all human races is more versatile in what they can do because they arent tied to an specific trait, they can even adapt into Psionics and cover several roles in society, the Protoss bypassed this by having their disabled and AI doing the rest of the work and the Zerg have a large array of specificly evolved beings in order to cover those same functions.

    you know MMO players dont like to have their races disabled by gameplay, they ask for balance, WoW races have practically all the same classes with certain exceptions due to lore.

    if you want to get another clarification, look it like this. Warcraft was easy to convert into an MMO because all the races in the setting were humanoids and their units were homogeneous enough so the developers could take the classes out of them. even from races that didnt really get many influence in the game. it didnt matter if the orcs didnt have paladins or if night elves didnt have warlocks because that was lore related but they had their own version of warriors, hunters, mages, etcetera.

    in Starcraft that doesnt happen, you cannot compare a Marine with a Zealot or a Zergling, the Zealot is melee and its not encumbered by a powersuit, the Zergling isnt even humanoid and is un armored.

    and guess what, MMOs are all played with humanoids, save a few special titles which allow you to play as things like dragones or the like.

    there's also the thing of items, the Zerg dont use equipment, they evolve for a role and its expected they will die covering that role.

    the protoss in theory could use the same equipment as humans, but their fort is the use of Psionics and Protoss tech is several orders of magnitude more advanced than Terran so they would have to have their own equipment

    TL:DR each race is so unique already they cannot be homogenized for an MMO, both in terms of models and equipment, the gameplay would have to be so complex it could turn off players.

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