Because devoting a lot of time to something you are genuinely enthusiastic about is fine. We're gamers here, we all devote hundreds or thousands of hours into gaming. Perhaps not the best use of our time but it brings us happiness. There is nothing wrong with talking about something you love with other enthusiasts, or with constructive criticism and genuine concerns.
Devoting a lot of time into bashing or whining about something is pathetic however. You don't like the game. Fine. Move on with your life. I hate WoW. I think the removal or skill trees is proof positive it's a game for people who don't want to think about or put any true effort into gaming. Might as well watch a movie IMO. However you don't see me on the WoW section of these forums bashing WoW for hundreds of hours over 4+ years. I'm too busy devoting my time, thought, and energy into things I genuinely enjoy. I might bring up WoW in the context that I don't want to see games I actually have hope for become WoW but what would be the point in devoting so much time and energy into bashing the game outside any kind of constructive context? And let's get real here, the anti-fanboys aren't posting anything constructive at this point. They're rehashing the same points they've been rehashing for years.
So here is the general jist of this section
"MaxBacon: Here's a video / RSI announcements. This looks super cool!"
"Other SC Enthusiasts: Awesome. That is cool! *chatter*"
"Sgel/Excession/FrodoFragins: SC Sucks! This game is a scam! Everything they've ever delivered is crap and It's taking to long! Chris Roberts is an idiot!"
"Not an Anti-Fanboy: I've played some of what they had and I actually think it was kind of fun...."
"Sgel/Excession/FrodoFragins: Shut up! Everything they do is terrible!"
*flamefest ensues*
You forgot the other side of the coin.
Someone: Chris Roberts ran his last studio into the ground and didn’t release a single game while he was at the helm. Microsoft saved freelancer by buying it out. History in terms of how the studio is run appears to be repeating itself.
Fanboys: Ha! Microsoft tried to stifle the game but cutting back features and being an evil publisher! Chris is a visionary and publishers are the devil and it won’t be like that now because there isn’t anyone who oversees Chris!
Someone: *continues to try logic and presenting facts*
Fanboys: *continue to rewrite history in their head and scream down all dissent*
No I simply said Freelancer was one of the best games ever made even half-finished and it was a Chris Roberts project. You proceeded to say that none of the credit for that goes to credit and everything good about Freelancer is because of Microsoft. And I basically said I really doubt that's accurate. I never vilified Microsoft, that's all your own made up bullcrap. Though I really think they did squander Freelancer's potential by never releasing any kind of sequel or expansion for a game that had a large and devoted fanbase that continued to play it for many years after it's release. There is still an active modding community for Freelancer as of a few months ago when I checked in on it last.
Anyway. Glad to see you've wasted the last few months of your life trolling the posts on a game you seem to intensely dislike as well. This game has to have the most devoted anti-fanboy following I've ever seen.
No I simply said Freelancer was one of the best games ever made even half-finished and it was a Chris Roberts project. You proceeded to say that none of the credit for that goes to credit and everything good about Freelancer is because of Microsoft. And I basically said I really doubt that's accurate. I never vilified Microsoft, that's all your own made up bullcrap. Though I really think they did squander Freelancer's potential by never releasing any kind of sequel or expansion for a game that had a large and devoted fanbase that continued to play it for many years after it's release. There is still an active modding community for Freelancer as of a few months ago when I checked in on it last.
Anyway. Glad to see you've wasted the last few months of your life trolling the posts on a game you seem to intensely dislike as well. This game has to have the most devoted anti-fanboy following I've ever seen.
It’s funny you think I was talking about you but I do love the poor attempt at an insult in the last paragraph.
And yes I do believe just about everything good about Freelancer is due to Microsoft. They took the mess that was a Chris Roberts game, cut away all the unobtainable dreams and bullshit and put out a good game despite the probable mess that CR left for them. If it wasn’t for them Freelancer wouldn’t exist so Chris can have the thanks for coming up with the idea and Microsoft can have the thanks for everything else.
This game has to have the most devoted anti-fanboy following I've ever seen.
Why do you think that is? Jealousy? Pure hatred? Teenage angst? Derek Smart alts? Initial hope turned into aggressive reaction due to game development limbo? Vitamin deficiency? Stockholm syndrome?
This game has to have the most devoted anti-fanboy following I've ever seen.
For good reason.
Really? What is that good reason? Entertainment? That's all I can think of. It's been what, 4 years now? How many minds have been changed? Zero. So, I think your good reason is probably more personal than something contributing to a greater good.
This game has to have the most devoted anti-fanboy following I've ever seen.
For good reason.
Really? What is that good reason? Entertainment? That's all I can think of. It's been what, 4 years now? How many minds have been changed? Zero. So, I think your good reason is probably more personal than something contributing to a greater good.
LOL, and around and around we go. It always comes down to this and then the arguments start from beginning again. You have to admit this is very entertaining.
“The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
―
George Carlin
This game has to have the most devoted anti-fanboy following I've ever seen.
For good reason.
Really? What is that good reason? Entertainment? That's all I can think of. It's been what, 4 years now? How many minds have been changed? Zero. So, I think your good reason is probably more personal than something contributing to a greater good.
Calling out the shitty business model that all these fanboys apologise for is plenty good enough reason in my opinion. We get all this crap in games is because people are willing to trade their principles for shiny graphics. The SC fanboys are the worst of the bunch because they defend CIG shafting them with $700 game assets while griping about $20 expansions or $4 cosmetic items.
Yeah... any anti-fanboy who thinks they are making any kind of meaningful impact on anything by trolling every SC thread with their drivel is completely deluded.
Personally, I love to see innovative game concepts. I've put more hours into games like Darkfall, EVE, and Wurm Online than games like WoW and SWTOR. I have a certain level of desire to see all the more interesting and unique game concepts coming out such as Life is Feudal, Crowfall, Chronicles of Elyria and Star Citizen succeed.
My expectations are realistic. I know that most of these games are far more likely to be the next Mortal Online than the next WoW or even SWTOR or ESO.
I also know I consider Mortal Online to be a better game than SWTOR or ESO in terms of personal preference. I'm willing to weather some slower development and bugs to play a game that is meaningfully different from WoW and it's 5 billion clones than to get the next polished and bug free WoW clone quickly.
What the SC anti-fanboys don't get, is if you aren't doing anything innovative or are just tweaking a few aspects of the core content of your game to make it a bit different than WoW, I don't consider it a new game. It's an old game in a new package.
And none of the truly new MMOs on the horizon are being developed quickly, bug free, and without crowdfunding. You see the same complaints being made here being made about all the other games I listed that show actual innovation. So forgive me if I don't throw my hands up and give up all hope on this game because the development is a bit slow.
Yeah... any anti-fanboy who thinks they are making any kind of meaningful impact on anything by trolling every SC thread with their drivel is completely deluded.
Haha, you sound exactly like what you are preaching against /rolleyes
What you're really saying is "I don't like it so people should just keep quiet...."
The only reason there is backlash against game monetisation is because attention is drawn to it, if everyone ignored it because they believed speaking about it resulted in zero impact we'd be in an awful mess.
This game has to have the most devoted anti-fanboy following I've ever seen.
For good reason.
Really? What is that good reason? Entertainment? That's all I can think of. It's been what, 4 years now? How many minds have been changed? Zero. So, I think your good reason is probably more personal than something contributing to a greater good.
Calling out the shitty business model that all these fanboys apologise for is plenty good enough reason in my opinion. We get all this crap in games is because people are willing to trade their principles for shiny graphics. The SC fanboys are the worst of the bunch because they defend CIG shafting them with $700 game assets while griping about $20 expansions or $4 cosmetic items.
Again, how many minds have you changed? My guess is that number is approaching zero. So who are you trying to sell on this? You say we get all this crap in games, plural, but I only see you talking in here.
So what's your motivation? Are you simply mad that despite your efforts you've basically made zero contribution to some larger cause? I'm not sure what your concern is, exactly. Is this game somehow impacting your ability to be happy in your own life?
I think that you just need to come to terms with a couple things.
1) You have not and will not change any minds here. I know this is a biggie because I felt like I could do that with logic in the past. It doesn't work.
2) How much time are you wasting trying to change those minds? Do you think that maybe you could do something more productive to contribute to your own happiness than argue with poles? For real, I would laugh at someone yelling at a street sign, in real life. This is like the digital equivalent.
3) Are you making a mountain out of a mole hill? In reality there have been plenty of petitions, etc., created for, and against, Star Citizen. Based on change.org, we can see that the number of people ACTUALLY interested in making change is very few, like less than a hundred in most cases. So do you think that maybe you believe that this is a bigger problem than it is?
4) Why do you care how people spend their money and what they complain about? Shit, if you want to talk about absurd shit, people complain about cash shop items in FREE GAMES!! I don't think it gets more absurd than that.
All in all, if you're having fun stirring the pot, fantastic! Just know that if what you say are your actual goals, what you're doing (by keeping threads alive) is probably having the exact opposite impact than you think.
What you don't understand is that the millions of dollars they have raised they have done selling ships. Stopping now would be completely unfair to everyone coming after besides be throwing an incredibly successful business model down the drain because you don't like it.
Whining about it here isn't going to stop it. You can cry about it all you want in the next general "pay-to-win" thread which is sure to pop up in a day or two.
But you whining about it here isn't going to stop people from buying ships anymore than me whining about skill tree removal on the WoW forums would cause people to join me in refusing to play games that remove meaningful ability customization. In-fact it honestly makes me want to buy something else.
What you don't understand is that the millions of dollars they have raised they have done selling ships. Stopping now would be completely unfair to everyone coming after besides be throwing an incredibly successful business model down the drain because you don’t like it.
Ok I have to ask but how would it be unfair to people coming after if they stopped selling ships? Aren’t all these ships available in game or are you worried that the P2W crowd would just get even more ammo for their argument?
Also you’ve just brought up a point myself and others have made in the past. If it’s such an incredibly successful business model selling ships for real cash then what makes you think CIG is going to suddenly decide to stop making millions of dollars just because they said they wouldn’t sell ships when the game releases?
I've done the math on this forum a few times but I've personally spent around 2000$ on this game, made it all back and then some flipping them on the grey market (Like enough to fiance my move from Alaska to Oregon to be with my fiance several years ago), and now own multiple packages including a ship that was worth 400$ at purchase price.
So lets say I'm coming into this game with like 650$ worth of ships. Top of the line exploration ship, an exceptionally strong fighter, a ground speeder and moderately good trading vessel.
I was able to spend all that money to get it on day 1 and have it all coming into the game. This does present a real advantage. I don't feel at all bad about it given I'm paying for the development of this game using money I earned caring for people's elderly parents to get my advantage as opposed to sitting in my room in my underwear eating hot pockets and poop-socking 22 hours a day to get it. But I do feel it's unfair to not allow others the same opportunity I had to be rewarded with cool stuff to get off the ground faster if they pay into the development of the game.
If they would have just made the solo game it would of released, and then selling the MMO idea.
All anyone needs to watch is the money, setting up all those companies may have been a bad mistake. I just can't believe they have anything close to what they have earned in pledges then having to also pay back that loan or lose the games. Middle of last year I really thought we would of been playing by now, not testing. Not the MMO part but the solo game, Crytek seemed like the perfect engine for the solo game.
As far as setting up "all those companies" when operating in different countries it is a) standard - look at Amazon for example and b) almost essential - especially in some industries. And once you have a collection of companies you usually end up with a holding company.
It comes down to laws of the land. Country A says you have to file tax return X on white paper, country B says you have to do a tax return Y on yellow paper. Ok the white and yellow bit is made up but the differences in all sorts of laws - financial, employment, procurement etc. is real. One time prior to starting work in the US I asked KPMG EU bods (on board as EU experts) some questions - they basically said ask KPMG US; got to the US, asked KPMG US (on board as US experts) they said go ask KPMG EU. Basically the legal stuff can be very, nessy. And the simple solution for companies is to set up country specific companies.
As far as the loan goes - think of it as an advance. Lets say - if you are in the US - its the end of the tax year and you know you are going to get a yax rebate. You see a deal and decide to take out a loan to buy it - knowing that you tax rebate will cover it. OK you pay a bit of interest but the saving more than covers it. That is the type of "loan" that the UK company - one that is covered by tax rebates. So no worries on that score. (The bigger question is will they finish before running out of money etc. and they have said they have enough and some money is still coming in etc. - that is the bigger issue though long term, not "the loan".)
As for making the solo game - could they? Have just made ths olo game that is?
It would have been cheaper - no doubt about that. A big chunk of stuff is common to both the mmo and the solo game though. The ship models, the weapons, some planet tech for sure, the mocap, the mission givers - as well as the story (missions) stuff that is unique to the solo game. There is absolutely no doubt though that it would have been simpler and cheaper.
However would enough money have been raised to just do the single player game? We can only speculate but lots of people talk about the mobey brought in by ship sales - that would be money that the single player only game would not have gotten. And surely some of those who have backed the game have done so for the mmo part. We will never know of course but - potentially - the solo game in isolation may not have been possible.
Comments
Someone: Chris Roberts ran his last studio into the ground and didn’t release a single game while he was at the helm. Microsoft saved freelancer by buying it out. History in terms of how the studio is run appears to be repeating itself.
Fanboys: Ha! Microsoft tried to stifle the game but cutting back features and being an evil publisher! Chris is a visionary and publishers are the devil and it won’t be like that now because there isn’t anyone who oversees Chris!
Someone: *continues to try logic and presenting facts*
Fanboys: *continue to rewrite history in their head and scream down all dissent*
Anyway. Glad to see you've wasted the last few months of your life trolling the posts on a game you seem to intensely dislike as well. This game has to have the most devoted anti-fanboy following I've ever seen.
And yes I do believe just about everything good about Freelancer is due to Microsoft. They took the mess that was a Chris Roberts game, cut away all the unobtainable dreams and bullshit and put out a good game despite the probable mess that CR left for them. If it wasn’t for them Freelancer wouldn’t exist so Chris can have the thanks for coming up with the idea and Microsoft can have the thanks for everything else.
Jealousy? Pure hatred? Teenage angst? Derek Smart alts?
Initial hope turned into aggressive reaction due to game development limbo?
Vitamin deficiency? Stockholm syndrome?
..Cake..
For good reason.
Really? What is that good reason? Entertainment? That's all I can think of. It's been what, 4 years now? How many minds have been changed? Zero. So, I think your good reason is probably more personal than something contributing to a greater good.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
― George Carlin
Calling out the shitty business model that all these fanboys apologise for is plenty good enough reason in my opinion. We get all this crap in games is because people are willing to trade their principles for shiny graphics. The SC fanboys are the worst of the bunch because they defend CIG shafting them with $700 game assets while griping about $20 expansions or $4 cosmetic items.
Personally, I love to see innovative game concepts. I've put more hours into games like Darkfall, EVE, and Wurm Online than games like WoW and SWTOR. I have a certain level of desire to see all the more interesting and unique game concepts coming out such as Life is Feudal, Crowfall, Chronicles of Elyria and Star Citizen succeed.
My expectations are realistic. I know that most of these games are far more likely to be the next Mortal Online than the next WoW or even SWTOR or ESO.
I also know I consider Mortal Online to be a better game than SWTOR or ESO in terms of personal preference. I'm willing to weather some slower development and bugs to play a game that is meaningfully different from WoW and it's 5 billion clones than to get the next polished and bug free WoW clone quickly.
What the SC anti-fanboys don't get, is if you aren't doing anything innovative or are just tweaking a few aspects of the core content of your game to make it a bit different than WoW, I don't consider it a new game. It's an old game in a new package.
And none of the truly new MMOs on the horizon are being developed quickly, bug free, and without crowdfunding. You see the same complaints being made here being made about all the other games I listed that show actual innovation. So forgive me if I don't throw my hands up and give up all hope on this game because the development is a bit slow.
Haha, you sound exactly like what you are preaching against /rolleyes
What you're really saying is "I don't like it so people should just keep quiet...."
The only reason there is backlash against game monetisation is because attention is drawn to it, if everyone ignored it because they believed speaking about it resulted in zero impact we'd be in an awful mess.
What an awful apathetic stance.
Again, how many minds have you changed? My guess is that number is approaching zero. So who are you trying to sell on this? You say we get all this crap in games, plural, but I only see you talking in here.
So what's your motivation? Are you simply mad that despite your efforts you've basically made zero contribution to some larger cause? I'm not sure what your concern is, exactly. Is this game somehow impacting your ability to be happy in your own life?
I think that you just need to come to terms with a couple things.
1) You have not and will not change any minds here. I know this is a biggie because I felt like I could do that with logic in the past. It doesn't work.
2) How much time are you wasting trying to change those minds? Do you think that maybe you could do something more productive to contribute to your own happiness than argue with poles? For real, I would laugh at someone yelling at a street sign, in real life. This is like the digital equivalent.
3) Are you making a mountain out of a mole hill? In reality there have been plenty of petitions, etc., created for, and against, Star Citizen. Based on change.org, we can see that the number of people ACTUALLY interested in making change is very few, like less than a hundred in most cases. So do you think that maybe you believe that this is a bigger problem than it is?
4) Why do you care how people spend their money and what they complain about? Shit, if you want to talk about absurd shit, people complain about cash shop items in FREE GAMES!! I don't think it gets more absurd than that.
All in all, if you're having fun stirring the pot, fantastic! Just know that if what you say are your actual goals, what you're doing (by keeping threads alive) is probably having the exact opposite impact than you think.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Whining about it here isn't going to stop it. You can cry about it all you want in the next general "pay-to-win" thread which is sure to pop up in a day or two.
But you whining about it here isn't going to stop people from buying ships anymore than me whining about skill tree removal on the WoW forums would cause people to join me in refusing to play games that remove meaningful ability customization. In-fact it honestly makes me want to buy something else.
Also you’ve just brought up a point myself and others have made in the past. If it’s such an incredibly successful business model selling ships for real cash then what makes you think CIG is going to suddenly decide to stop making millions of dollars just because they said they wouldn’t sell ships when the game releases?
So lets say I'm coming into this game with like 650$ worth of ships. Top of the line exploration ship, an exceptionally strong fighter, a ground speeder and moderately good trading vessel.
I was able to spend all that money to get it on day 1 and have it all coming into the game. This does present a real advantage. I don't feel at all bad about it given I'm paying for the development of this game using money I earned caring for people's elderly parents to get my advantage as opposed to sitting in my room in my underwear eating hot pockets and poop-socking 22 hours a day to get it. But I do feel it's unfair to not allow others the same opportunity I had to be rewarded with cool stuff to get off the ground faster if they pay into the development of the game.
It comes down to laws of the land. Country A says you have to file tax return X on white paper, country B says you have to do a tax return Y on yellow paper. Ok the white and yellow bit is made up but the differences in all sorts of laws - financial, employment, procurement etc. is real. One time prior to starting work in the US I asked KPMG EU bods (on board as EU experts) some questions - they basically said ask KPMG US; got to the US, asked KPMG US (on board as US experts) they said go ask KPMG EU. Basically the legal stuff can be very, nessy. And the simple solution for companies is to set up country specific companies.
As far as the loan goes - think of it as an advance. Lets say - if you are in the US - its the end of the tax year and you know you are going to get a yax rebate. You see a deal and decide to take out a loan to buy it - knowing that you tax rebate will cover it. OK you pay a bit of interest but the saving more than covers it. That is the type of "loan" that the UK company - one that is covered by tax rebates. So no worries on that score. (The bigger question is will they finish before running out of money etc. and they have said they have enough and some money is still coming in etc. - that is the bigger issue though long term, not "the loan".)
As for making the solo game - could they? Have just made ths olo game that is?
It would have been cheaper - no doubt about that. A big chunk of stuff is common to both the mmo and the solo game though. The ship models, the weapons, some planet tech for sure, the mocap, the mission givers - as well as the story (missions) stuff that is unique to the solo game. There is absolutely no doubt though that it would have been simpler and cheaper.
However would enough money have been raised to just do the single player game? We can only speculate but lots of people talk about the mobey brought in by ship sales - that would be money that the single player only game would not have gotten. And surely some of those who have backed the game have done so for the mmo part. We will never know of course but - potentially - the solo game in isolation may not have been possible.