Originally posted by Aelious I'd argue action combat is MORE RPG than tab. You have a more active role controlling your character.
I would argue that neither is "more RPG," because combat in these games is really the least RP part of the experience. When combat starts it becomes a different animal, and bears really no resemblance to RP situations as I would define them. If you mean RPG as in Final Fantasy or something like that then the other guy is right, and action is not RPG.
I think action combat has it's own merits, but I have never seen it be something that bolsters the immersion except maybe in Age of Conan.
If by "RPG" we're talking about playing the role of another character I would think that any mechanic that gives you more control over said character you're supposed to be playing would be better. I don't just see RP as a means of talking or emoting, it's the whole enchilada (though talk/emote is a big part). This is my view of course. My eventual want is to have VR helms and motions controllers so I have 100% control over my online avatar. I have a ways to wait though so in the meantime reticle combat is the closest thing.
Aside from that aspect I just can't play UI Simulator anymore, it's just boring. I can get the same type of gameplay from mobile game these days and it actually takes away another dimension of difficulty. Once spells/abilities are auto-locked the speed and movement of a mob becomes a nonfactor. I'd rather have reticle targeting for that added difficulty (mobs can still scale HP/Armor regardless) and a real need for CC.
When I play an RPG, I want it to be about the character, not me. I lose that immersion factor if I'm focusing too much on motor reflexes, number crunching and teamspeak.
You are nitpicking. This is still the same company run by the same people using the same culture and processes as it has been for over a decade By their own words nothing has changed, the plans are still the same and the new owners are hands off.
Why then would anyone expect their results to be any different than the last 10 years? That is the reality of the situation.
It is meaningless that a few new faces are there, especially when the ones leading the downward spiral are still in charge and half of the team is gone (again).
The point is no major changes have been made in order to rebuild the company or fix what has obviously been dysfunctional.
To expect a company to have a turn around there should be major change to leadership and way of doing business.
That last happened when they hired Dave Georgeson and under his reign things not only didn't turn around, they got progressively worse.
The question remains, what would possibly suggest this company is going to do better other than dumb luck?
You are right, bringing in completely new people to lead, design, and develop a product has no impact on the outcome. The companies history is all that matters. No company in the history of the world has ever turned things around. /s
Basically I'm getting you believe their is no hope and that they are doomed to repeat themselves. Which is fine and you could be right, but you totally dismissing what happened is a bit much.
I don't care about the company as a whole, I'm discussing a particular product. Smedley being in charge or whatever doesn't matter. He is not on the dev team.
-=2=-
You asked for an example and I not only gave you one, but gave you one that directly applies to the company we are discussing.
Then you say you know nothing about that game and in the same breath dismiss it as not being important enough to be relevant. This is typical of what you and others continue to do in order to ignore the situation just to find some way to remain positive.
There is no point giving you more examples as you will just downplay anything that doesn't boost the outlook of the game. NO offense intended, but that is pretty typical of the 2-3 ardent defenders of the game.
While I can't really disagree with this comment, I'll point out that from what you said and what is happening with EQN, it isn't apples to apples. If you think an EQ game with active communication made by the core company is the same, then it is what it is.
But you did say (I believe) that their was historical data to back up your claims from other companies/products. Seems you are basing EQN's state and future on one random product that to me had no real significance.
-=3=-
"You will believe it when you see it"
Isn't that exactly what you are arguing against people don't think the development process is doing well?
There is a terrible double standard that pops up way to often from a few here, sorry to point that out.
Not exactly. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, while others appear to be calling them liars for all intents and purposes. Either you believe them or you don't. Neither is false. One just makes less sense to me.
-=4=-
I'm pretty sure people hope it will turn out poorly like you continually suggest. You are just criticizing anyone that doesn't have your blind optimism as if they are somehow bad just for bad sake. Just because you do not understand why they are watching the game doesn't mean you get to diminish them for following or talking about the realities of the situation. Again this is a discussion forum and not a fan site.
When things start looking positive for the games development I expect the tone to change, but until that happens you have at accept the way things are.
I disagree, this site in general is pretty negative, regardless of how well a product might be doing. Why I haven't deleted my account yet is beyond me lol. Guess I love the drama.
I'm not blind and actually not that optimistic. I'm simply not hating on them just to do it. What purpose does that serve? "Daybreak sucks, EQN will fail!" Message heard.
With how mechanics are shaping up in Landmark, probably won't find EQN all that fun for me. Doesn't mean I'm going to jump on the hater wagon. Guess it is just me, but if I felt so negatively about something, I would walk away.
You are right this is a fan site and this is a particular games forum. If it is meant to be full of bashing, then so be it. Pretty sad that people have so much negativity towards pixels and those behind them.
-=5=-
Again, you asked for reasons why I think they might be revamping, scrapping or redesigning the game and I listed several very good ones.
Beyond your gut feeling. Is there anything I could see with my own eyes. Cutting team members =/= redesigning a game for example. Coming out and going "So we've decided to go with this instead of that" would be completely different.
You can try the typical downplay and ignore routine all you want, but there is some good information to suggest it is a very realistic possibility.
Edit: seeing that Columbus Nova cut 50% of the employees and cancelled the Storybricks support, I think we can say that yes the funding was most certainly cut. The only question is to what degree.
Lastly,
No one is being negative for negatives sake. Just because you don't like the negative issues surrounding the games development doesn't mean you can wish them away or tell others to not talk about it. Deal with it.
I'll continue to ask, what's your end goal?
Here's how it is for me. If you and others didn't fill this forum with negativity, I wouldn't have anything to respond to. I'm here out of boredom and to counter what I believe is misinformation (people claiming the game is canceled for example). That is how I "deal with it."
Beyond that, I'm waiting for them to reveal something else worth my time.
I am curious if you are referencing Workshop show #37
Yep
However episode 37 talked about 1 race for EQN and that is the big communication with the players?
That episode has been viewed a total of 62 times.... including 1 by me.
So unless it is "big communication" (which you define) they simply aren't communicating?
Honestly that show is little more than the developers talking about player made structures in a different game.
Which is communication.
If the developers were really communicating like you suggest, then it would be a simple manner of pointing to the twitch show to give them what they desire. Even this sites biggest advocate of the show opens his posts by saying it isn't a show about EQN development.
It is what it is. They are pretty honest about their develop cycle. If it makes a whoosh sound over your heads, oh well.
They (from what they say) are building the world in the studio along with input/help with fans that are into that. They are communicating, if it doesn't meet your specific criteria that doesn't remove this fact.
To expect them to reveal other news doesn't make much sense to me. Goes back to them saying they'll reveal other stuff when they are ready.
(snip)I look at this way.. Since the release of EQ2 about 10 years ago, SOE/Daybreak has launched close to 10 games for the PC, and damn near "ALL" of them closed up.. Oh sure early on in the beginning SOE got lucky with the original EQ, and with that success it carried some others, but lets not fool ourselves that SOE's record in the past 10 years suck..
Totally agree. Although PS2, H1Z1, DCUO are pretty decent for what they are. I don't see many claiming Daybreak (SOE) is an amazing company now or in the recent past.
-=2=-
The list of failures in the past 10 years is many.. Go google SOE's games games developed in the recent past and see how many closed up shop.. As I said above, SOE's last 10 years is not impressive at all.. That alone would give me reason to FIRE Smed on the spot..
AAA games they were responsible for? Or smaller (did anyone notice) products hey made or bought from others? At one point SOE was a pretty decent sized company with studios/offices in multiple cities. Is it all one company? Sure, but any major older company is not very different.
-=3=-
I have noticed the tone since the buyout coming from you and many others defenders of EQN.. What was once a very aggressive stance of defense, has now turned into a "oh well" if they cancel or change.. In my opinion, everything is vaporware until you have a working model in which to demo and expand.. I guess technically Landmark (engine) is their working model and that truly sucks.. Which in my opinion is about 33% of the game.. Where is the other 66%?
My tone has changed as Landmark has developed. Clear that they are going a lot more "casual" than I expected. Could change for EQN, but I'm doubtful. Doesn't mean I need to crap all over them to make myself feel better or whatever fuels some of you folks. Also nice to have other options (Crowfall) where a year or so ago the market looked pretty poor for me personally. If EQN turns out being somewhat of what I hoped for, will be great, if not, no tears here.
Guess my definition of vaporware is different and what it is used for now is pretty pointless. Do unreleased products really need a buzzword?
-=4=-
Maybe, those anticipating it will fail are hoping for executive change.. I know I am.. Watching a perfectly good IP go to shit because of poor leadership is painful.. Just like Star Wars Galaxies, it was painful to watch a great IP get destroyed because too many useless devs had NO CLUE how to make a game fun without dozens of game breaking bugs.. I loved the first Beverly Hills Cops movie, and the second was OK too.... BUT OMFGGGGGGG.. Who in the hell gave the green light for the 3rd one? That joker needs to be fired and black balled from the industry forever.. LOL I put Smed in the same boat..
I think people give Smed way too much credit. When it comes to EQN at least, he doesn't seem to have any involvement. He's too busy killing people in PS2/H1Z1. Maybe he has his hands in all the products and is hugely responsible, but I doubt it.
From what you've said before, you seem to hope that Daybreak will see the light... and make EQ3 or whatever. Could be, but with how poor Pantheon's support has been, don't see it happening myself. McQuaid was at SOE before heading off to do Pantheon I believe, they knew about it and still did what they are doing.
Guess no one was like "OMG that sounds amazing, a game just like EQ and VG! Why didn't we think of that, totally original!"
I don't care if Daybreak goes belly up or all employees are swapped out for new ones from the top down. I only care that a product they make is entertaining to me. Guess I don't hold grudges against companies or people I have no real connection to.
-=5=-
Georgie, Butler and Moorguard = GONE.. I think that is significant..
Why? Moorguard seemed involved with the story (which plenty still hate), other two? No clue what they actually contributed.
Georgeson smiled and played around in Landmark. Butler made a few comments at the SOE Live panels...
Ha Ha.. lost a few people?.. Storybricks is no more, as they closed shop as well.. and NO ONE knows anything about what was actually salvaged.. For all we know, the only thing that left from Storybricks could be 3 lines of code, so technically I guess they weren't lying (just not exactly honest either).. lol
SB was a few people...haha?
They said in plain English that they kept everything they'd been working on with Storybricks. If all they had was 3 lines of code from all that time, should of parted ways much sooner... DB still has their own AI folks, as you and others have pointed out, SB wasn't anything special right? Swear you said it was just faction stuff they've had since EQ...now it matters?
Considering SB couldn't find anyone to buy the tech, I'm doubting it is all that amazing myself. Which is too bad, would of been cool if it worked. Never know though, might still be interesting.
I have yet to see ANYTHING from this team that is actually a working model of EQN besides Landmark minecrafting.. LOL
Doesn't change what I said or what we were talking about.
As you said, they are still working on the "33%" yet you want the last "66%". It is what it is. Can't magically make them finish the game overnight. Although Landmark + demos they've shown reveal a decent amount of what EQN could be at the bare minimum. I wouldn't play it, but it isn't like they lack classes/skills/gear/mobs/crafting/achievements/building...
OH they definitely back peddled a lot.. It was just as bad as watching a politician hold a press conference defending their wrong doings..
To each their own. As I said, F2P being questionable was the only real thing they said of note. Everything else was "we're still working on it, can't predict the future" which should be any companies stance.
They probably bit off more than they could chew initially with voxels/storybricks and what is a very different game than what they've done or even other companies (much like EQ).
Doing something new or relatively first is probably damn hard and why I don't care if it takes 10 years if it turns out being decent. I'm not risking anything by waiting. Seems some folks can't move on with their lives if they don't know all 40 classes or what Naggy will look like.
When was the last time we honestly heard of saw anything meaningful about EQN? Seriouslly.. and DON"T say "building Qeynos" in Landmark.. That is vaporbs.. LOL Do we know anything more about classes? Do we know anything more about spells and skills? Do we know anything more about the infamous awesome "NEW" AI yet? etc etc.. Silence is deafening.. lol
It has been a while. But If they say they are building the world and that is what they want to show and discuss, I don't know why anyone would expect otherwise.
I want all the fun stuff just as much as anyone (being an actual fan of the product), but meh. Listing out all the classes/skills will entertain people for a short time then it will go back to much the same. At the same time, I wouldn't mind a game actually be an unknown for once.
Did you know all there was to know about EQ when you started? I sure as hell didn't. Falling to my death in Kelethin or not knowing how to operate the lifts was pretty damn amazing. Now people moan if they don't have every single nugget of data mined and displayed years in advance.
Could they delve into basics a lot more (combat, progression, what's the point in playing?)? Heck ya, but if the game is actually being developed and will release, they will have to tell us everything eventually. Seems some believe the devs are evil and withholding details just to make people mad. "Screw the fans!" maybe Daybreak's new motto?
Assuming they are saving the AI until it is as polished as possible without taking a million years. Calling it the "secret sauce" and basically designing the entire game around it is a huge deal. If it sucks, game over.
As seen with a game like Wildstar, a company can make something that looks pretty and does a lot of things right, but if it is just another game, no one cares. At this point, EQN needs to be a home run or it will be a major waste of time and money. No doubt people would still play just another game (seems some love it), but no going to see the waves they are trying to make in the mmo ocean.
A few fans tend to attack people who point out negative issues. Not debate the issues, but attack the people who post an opinion. Things like calling them ignorant, unreasonable, tell them to go away or just being negative as if there is no possible reason to have a poor outlook on how this games development is going.
That bothers me sometimes and I enjoy debating those issues with those people. No hidden agendas, no attempt to ruin a company or whatever you may think. I really don't think any one person can really aid is something like that by having discussions on a game discussion forum. At least me.
Lets debate or at least have a focused discussion?
I'll try to stay objective, but feel free to dispute any of this with factual information, I can try to provide evidence if needed.
EQN is a game in development.
It has been in development since at least 2010.
From what was discussed during the 2010 gathering, most of the design was scrapped at least twice and was never fully revealed.
2011-2012 or so, new leads were brought in to take the game in a different direction along with new tech to assist.
Aug 2013 the current design was announced and revealed to the public.
Landmark was also revealed as not only a stand alone game, but a tool to test features that would make EQN and allow players to provide "content" as well.
Landmark has and continues to be in development and at the basic level one could expect EQN to function at least the same. If or how "better" features will be in EQN is unknown.
Storybricks the company with tech of the same name was brought in to develop the AI which is the central feature to EQN. They recently parted ways but as stated by both parties, the work done together remains and will continue. AI is still the "secret sauce."
SOE was sold and renamed Daybreak. Decent chunk of staff were cut, including most of the Community/PR folks and 3 leads of EQN.
As of the last "what's going on" statement, F2P is questionable but the rest of the game is still as planned. Although, they are not able to predict the future and things change.
Devs continue to work with fans through Landmark to create content for EQN.
They have said that they will reveal more "when ready."
There is also 16+ years of company-gaming history involved, but how much that impacts each of us is personal. A company could have 20 crappy games and the 21st could be my favorite of all time.
I'd be smart to doubt the 21st will be good simply because of past experience, but I can't know for sure until it is a reality.
I'd be smart to not blindly believe them going "It's the greatest game ever, we promise!" All I can do is make assumptions-views-opinions based on my personal experience and preferences.
For those that lack common sense and are sheep, sucks for them I guess.
I don't care what SOE/Daybreak has done in the past, good, bad, ugly.
The team making EQN is not the same team responsible for the what I've liked or disliked about previous titles.
Yes it is the same company, but that isn't everything.
To me it is like assuming a restaurant will have crappy food, despite the owners, chefs, and menu changing. But but they kept the line cooks, dishwashers, and wait staff...
I judge games individually. The company behind them factors into my interest level and hope/doubt, but the final product is all I'm concerned about.
On my part, I have no desire to see Daybreak, Smed, devs, games, or anyone to fail, lose their job, or whatever some think they deserve. To me that is pretty vindictive and sad.
If some assume EQN is doomed, so be it. There is plenty of "history" to show that the company knows how to screw up products, yet at the same time they've made or been a part of some of the most memorable games ever.
No company, product, or decision is perfect. EQN won't be, I can promise that.
Since there aren't any current games that have my interest, all I can do is throw a bit of caution to the wind and hope that EQN turns out to be even a fraction of what they've said it will be.
It's a flip of a coin as pretty much all mmos are. We can throw our personal baggage onto one side or the other in hopes to get it to land how we want, but we really have no say in the matter. At the end of the day, the product will release or it won't. Each of us will either play it or not. Those that do will either enjoy it or not. Beyond that, we are grasping at air trying to defend or pointless opinions about pixels that don't even exist yet.
That is pretty much where I stand on all of this which has little to nothing to do with the actual game itself which is why I'm here lol.
Edit:
After peeking at your post history, I'm going to have to assume that due to your past experiences (The Agency, Vanguard, WAR, EQ2, SWG, DCUO, WoW) that you've been burned to the core and all you have left is the sting. Seem to have a especially poor history with SOE.
I also see that as far back as the posts go, you have been fairly critical of anything you are discussing, not much room for any optimism, which as a long time gamer, I understand.
Honestly very happy that I avoided this site until EQN neared the reveal. The amount of negative discussion is overwhelming, especially for someone like myself that tries to balance it out, but clearly the battle is done and over with.
Also glad my time with SOE was rather short (EQ for a few years at the start, tried SWG/EQ2 briefly, little PS1, PS2 off and on). Clearly I haven't subjected myself to what SOE has dished out to fans/customers that some of you have, not that you are at fault.
Typically, if I ever found myself on a forum more than a game, I quit the game. Since starting online gaming around 95 or so, this is the first game (Crowfall now the 2nd) that I've actually actively followed. Might be why I let poor outcomes roll off like nothing. Never got too invested one way or another.
I jumped into EQ, DAoC, WAR, WoW, Aion, GW2, etc. No hanging on every word before release. Think this is a good way to go and I've deviated from it.
Pretty much at that point with both EQN and already Crowfall. Going to humbly bow out I think. Still interested if you respond to my posts, I'll try to keep it short, but way too easy for me to get sucked into the drama even though it is fun. I have sympathy/pity for those so disgruntled with particular companies, games, or the industry as a whole, but I know nothing I can say will make it better. Hopefully we all find games that make us happy, that is what I'm here for.
Let me just point this out in regards to the double standard I see here.
Saying negative things about a game or company is bad.
Saying negative things about people for having negative views about a game is somehow ok?
Sorry, but I just don't think you and a couple others have the moral high ground you think you have to launch personal attacks on people instead of discussing a game. I hope you see the hypocrisy here. playing internet psychologist in some effort to pretend you know what a person is like based on a few posts on a gaming forum?
You really know little about me and your assumptions are primarily wrong. Just for example, I'm currently play an SOE game and enjoy it very much.
Anyhow. I'd like to try to clear up a misconception I think exists.
I don't think everything the developers say is a lie. I'm sure they share plenty of information that has sound foundation. However, this company does have a history of flat out lying to their player base. They also have a history of making misleading and intentionally ambiguous comments, especially when they are facing problems or want to downplay something. I think anyone can factually claim that these developers have a history of being untrustworthy and any claims they make are not beyond suspicion.
Here are some examples of what I mean:
People found the job listing that eventually led to Dave Geogeson coming on board with SOE and it was looking for someone with experience running/designing microtransactions in memo's. Players were obviously concerned SOE was going to convert their existing games to FTP. SOE and Smed flat out said Dave was hired to work on unannounced games and none of their existing games would be affected. Even going as far to restate those claims a few times to EQ and EQ2 fans as those changes started showing up in their games. As we all now know, Dave ended up in charge of and converting all thru existing games to F2P model against every claim that they would not be. Dave was a targeted hire and games started converting soon after.
another would be the crafted presser about how Daybreak still has all the work they did with storybricks and they were taking the AI in house.
If you read that statement it seems specifically designed to let the reader infer conclusions that don't seem to be stated anywhere with any certainty. It doesn't say if any of the work they did with storybricks worked or was completed enough for them to continue workingnon. it doesn't say if they AI they are taking in house is based on storybricks. It really doesn't say much other than they are working on the AI without any outside support. Since then the tone about the AI in the game has been muffled and doesn't seem to talk about the grand things promised from storybricks. Just passing comments about intelligent AI, but nothing more.
Yet some point to these comments as if work is steaming along and storybricks is still the key central feature of the game.
So I hope you understand why some people don't fully trust the developers and that yes, there is sound reasoning behind those doubts. You consider them then only source of information which is your choice, but what they don't say is just as important, if not more important.
Anyhow. I'd like to try to clear up a misconception I think exists.
Saying negative things about a game or the company behind it is 100% fine. Saying negative things or attacking individuals on a forum is less okay.
Only speaking for myself, my intention is not to offend or attack anyone, but I will point out when folks make statements that are flat out factually wrong, based on misconceptions and appear to lack knowledge (ignorance) when making opinions.
I don't have any moral high ground, but I would actually like to discuss the game. You and most other negative folks are not discussing THE GAME itself. You are going on about the company, its history, Smed, etc. While those play into EQN's development on a higher level, have little to do with Halflings, Necromancers, Lavastorm or what an epic weapon will look like.
If I was going to discuss WoW, I wouldn't go on and on about Bilzzard, I'm going to talk directly about WoW regardless if Blizzard is responsible for all the good/bad that the game has.
While I didn't read pages of your post history when it comes to EQN, I haven't seen you actually discuss the game itself very much if at all since you became active on this forum. Just straight into attack mode.
My hope is that people would come here to actually discuss what has been revealed or what could happen, pertaining to the actual game not if 5 years ago Smed ran over a cat or some evil act SOE might have done in the past.
Rydeson is a good example of someone that at least used to post negative views that were constructive to some degree. Doesn't like XYZ of the design and want them to be different. Even though it doesn't make a lot of sense to hope for 99.9% of a game to be different, I still appreciate the discussion. There is a point.
Even though it is fine with me if someone is negative, such as yourself, at least make it constructive. What can they do different? What would make for a better produce and experience? Instead of beating the past to death.
It is extremely easy to point out the flaws, a bit harder to make suggestions and attempt to make things better.
I might judge you wrongly, but your post history which is very long, seems to be very one note. Regardless if you play a SOE game or what your feelings might be, what you are typing and have been for many years seems to share a common theme.
I don't actually "trust" devs. Why would I? I don't know them and they have no influence on my actual life. I can believe them and trust them as game developers that what they say is true, but I'm not going to place any bets on their words as if they are a source of importance to me. I have no delusion that EQN could close shop tomorrow, be totally gutted again, or simply not be enjoyable for me. I'll cross those bridges if and when they might happen.
As for the Storybricks drama, both SOE (Last dev team update video) and Storybricks (farewell memo) said that the tech and work they had done together remained and they would continue working on AI in-house. While to me it is logical to assume that Daybreak will continue to use the Storybricks tech or at least the ground work created with it (they licensed it), obviously they could toss it aside as well. We have no clue either way. Maybe Storybricks wasn't very special? No clue. But they continue to say that the AI is "the secret sauce" and the core of EQN, regardless if they have Storybricks backing it or not. For me, if the AI is crap, game won't end up on my hard drive. Period.
I appreciate you feeling passionate about what is going on, simply would prefer that effort put towards discussing the game itself and not being captain obvious history professor. We all know SOE has had a less than ideal past. Either you are here to discuss EQN as a game or not. If you are here to simply point out the companies flaws and bash on them, seems rather pointless, but hey it's the internet and you can do pretty much whatever makes you happy. Just unfortunate that this is what brings you joy.
But I do find it curious that you only post in this forum while Daybreak has multiple games on this site. Most of what you say has nothing to do with EQN itself and could easily go in EQ,EQ2,H1Z1,Landmark forums as well. If you are here to warn the masses of the evil and history of SOE/Daybreak, you probably should hit those up as well?
No, but if the game is anywhere near what was shown in the initial announcement, sure. The problem is that I have absolutely no faith in Daybreak to pull that kind of game off.
All the faith I did have was gone after they turned Landmark into a full F2P game that requires you to pay or grind for resources, instead of the creative design tool for EQN content as it was initially announced.
I said yes, but let's just say, after Daybreak Studios handling of EQ's new progression server is, in any way, an indicator of how this studio operates, then I have lost a lot of hope for Everquest Next.
How are they going to produce even half of what this game promises if they can't even handle the addition of a single server in a 15-year-old game well?
I don't have any moral high ground, but I would actually like to discuss the game. You and most other negative folks are not discussing the game itself. You are going on about the company, its history, Smed, etc. While those play into EQN's development on a higher level, have little to do with Halflings, Necromancers, Lavastorm or what an epic weapon will look like.
<<snip>>
My hope is that people would come here to actually discuss what has been revealed or what could happen, pertaining to the actual game not if 5 years ago Smed ran over a cat or some evil act SOE might have done in the past.
<<snip>>
There really isn't much revealed about the game to actually discuss as you are trying to put it and most of what has been revealed has not been received well. You would like to discuss what 'could happen', but don't seem to want to hear both sides of that potential or that those not sharing your views are somehow ignorant to something only you know about.
Don't expect people to speculate and then get upset when that speculation is almost universally negative.
If you continually reference what the developers claim in order to point out someone elses 'ignorance', then you need to be prepared to discuss those developers. That is naturally going to bring up their history, performance and reliability. Again, you shouldn't get upset when that is almost universally negative. Criticizing people for not agreeing with you isn't going to alter reality.
You essentially wrote a wall of text to say you want people to only speculate on what good things might happen, ignore everything else and go away if they don't agree with you.
I'm of the opinion that this game is approaching vaporware status. If it does ever make it to release, it will be in a form drastically different than the first or second incarnations of the driving vision.
It appears that Landmark was less successful than they anticipated and it has hampered development of both titles and played into (not the singular cause!) why SoE was sold. I think the logical thing here is Daybreak, if indeed they are still making the game (I don't care what anyone says, I'm unconvinced this is fact), is going to strip away most of the original ambitions to cut expenses and push out a cheaper made, less ambitious attempt to recoup all the losses incurred over the years. I'd say almost all hope for a truly next gen AAA game are gone, and I'm not convinced the game ever would have been all that great in the first place. It always seemed that they misunderstood the reasons why people loved EQ, what those fans wanted to see in a spiritual successor (hint: player interdependence, community driven), and that their primary focus was overambitious (read: $$$) mob AI (should probably worry about fundamental game mechanics first, but what do I know).
There really isn't much revealed about the game to actually discuss as you are trying to put it and most of what has been revealed has not been received well. You would like to discuss what 'could happen', but don't seem to want to hear both sides of that potential or that those not sharing your views are somehow ignorant to something only you know about.
Don't expect people to speculate and then get upset when that speculation is almost universally negative.
If you continually reference what the developers claim in order to point out someone elses 'ignorance', then you need to be prepared to discuss those developers. That is naturally going to bring up their history, performance and reliability. Again, you shouldn't get upset when that is almost universally negative. Criticizing people for not agreeing with you isn't going to alter reality.
You essentially wrote a wall of text to say you want people to only speculate on what good things might happen, ignore everything else and go away if they don't agree with you.
Guess my ramblings aren't clear. I want to discuss THE GAME. Good, bad, negative, positive, praise, critical views etc. What people love, hate, want to change, what looks stupid, awesome, crazy, and so on.
What you are doing is giving a history lesson on SOE's past that anyone with experience should know. You aren't discussing the game at all.
To me it is like jumping into a Camaro forum to be critical of Chey's past.
While semi-relevant, doesn't really make sense. At least to me, the point of this forum in particular is to discuss EQN the game.
While other things can fit into the context, since the drama of them being sold, that is all that people have gone on about (don't believe you posted here prior to that).
The few posts actually trying to discuss newer info about THE GAME have had little response. Guess if it isn't drama, not worth discussing.
While you know a lot about the company, no idea if you know anything about the game as nothing you talk about is about it.
You also seem to equate the company to some faceless Borg entity. Regardless of who the current devs are or what has happened to the company, anything they've done in the past overshadows that and what one has said and done equals all that will every take place. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Maybe they should make a sub forum for bashing the company and another to discuss the actual game? Would make me happy I guess
Oh well, it is what it is and until they start mass delivering details, I doubt the conversation will change much. As I said previously, I've pretty much had it with this site and all the negative individuals that seem to dislike pretty much everything. Hope listing all the mistakes of SOE makes your time here more enjoyable, but I'm going to stick to discussions about the actual GAME itself, not what could or couldn't happen based on what happened years ago on a different product from a different group of devs with completely different circumstances.
Then perhaps you should go find a fansite where only happy thoughts are allowed.
You seem to want to convert this site to fit your own personal standards of what can or can't be discussed. Ironically things I talk about is related to the game, while you have devolved into discussing me. For all your talk about not wanting to discuss non-game related things, you and the few other defenders seem to engage in this far too much.
Perhaps you are following the wrong games if all you see is negatives. There have been some crazy hyped optimistic views of upcoming games, but if you hang out in the forums of a company with a track record like SOE/Daybreaks, then don't act surprised when very few people expect a decent product.
Just in case you forget which thread this was, this thread was asking if people were still hyped about this game and the answer seems to be no. It is an opinion thread. Don't like the opinions, don't read the thread.
Then perhaps you should go find a fansite where only happy thoughts are allowed.
You seem to want to convert this site to fit your own personal standards of what can or can't be discussed. Ironically things I talk about is related to the game, while you have devolved into discussing me. For all your talk about not wanting to discuss non-game related things, you and the few other defenders seem to engage in this far too much.
Perhaps you are following the wrong games if all you see is negatives. There have been some crazy hyped optimistic views of upcoming games, but if you hang out in the forums of a company with a track record like SOE/Daybreaks, then don't act surprised when very few people expect a decent product.
Just in case you forget which thread this was, this thread was asking if people were still hyped about this game and the answer seems to be no. It is an opinion thread. Don't like the opinions, don't read the thread.
That I take full responsibility for. As the drama surrounding EQN/Daybreak seems to have passed and its just a handful of us spinning our wheels, I'll simply walk away from the discussion. If others engage you, that's on them.
I'm sure there will be more "Where are you Daybreak" "Give us more now" "Is all hope lost" and other such deep discussion starters. I'll leave you to enjoy your doom crusade. Maybe at some point you might actually talk about the game. But then again, this isn't a happy fansite, so talking about a game is crazy...
Then perhaps you should go find a fansite where only happy thoughts are allowed.
You seem to want to convert this site to fit your own personal standards of what can or can't be discussed. Ironically things I talk about is related to the game, while you have devolved into discussing me. For all your talk about not wanting to discuss non-game related things, you and the few other defenders seem to engage in this far too much.
Perhaps you are following the wrong games if all you see is negatives. There have been some crazy hyped optimistic views of upcoming games, but if you hang out in the forums of a company with a track record like SOE/Daybreaks, then don't act surprised when very few people expect a decent product.
Just in case you forget which thread this was, this thread was asking if people were still hyped about this game and the answer seems to be no. It is an opinion thread. Don't like the opinions, don't read the thread.
That I take full responsibility for. As the drama surrounding EQN/Daybreak seems to have passed and its just a handful of us spinning our wheels, I'll simply walk away from the discussion. If others engage you, that's on them.
I'm sure there will be more "Where are you Daybreak" "Give us more now" "Is all hope lost" and other such deep discussion starters. I'll leave you to enjoy your doom crusade. Maybe at some point you might actually talk about the game. But then again, this isn't a happy fansite, so talking about a game is crazy...
No worries Allein, your fine. You know there is not reaching someone when they excuse their hate posts by telling you to goto another forum. Like its your fault and your just on the wrong web site lol
They are taking everything everquest 1 and 2 players loved and ignoring it.
I doubt many are going to like it honestly.
While I won't disagree, I also believe much of what some folks enjoyed about EQ/EQ2 is not unique and can be found in many games and or doesn't exist in either game today regardless. While there is much I enjoyed about EQ in the early years, most of the mechanics I could do without. Although I would enjoy to run around in another Everquest themed world.
No worries Allein, your fine. You know there is not reaching someone when they excuse their hate posts by telling you to goto another forum. Like its your fault and your just on the wrong web site lol
Ya I gotta stop falling into the mindless discussion with some of them.
Find it very interesting that even though I welcome all discussions, I some how am telling people to leave if they don't agree with me, but since I don't agree with them, I should leave.
Oh well, unfortunate some people find so much negativity in video games.
i was hyped, but after playing landmark combat system... meh...
Combat system need be better. every think else seems good tho.
Very true.
The combat system leave a lot to be desired, regardless if it is alpha/beta whatever. To leave it in such a state for so long doesn't make much sense if they are internally updating it.
The progress/achievement system bothers me as well and why I most likely won't enjoy EQN if it follows the design. No real mystery, simply took the quest hub and NPCs directing the way and stuck it in UI we have at all times.
Not expecting EQ design where there is zero signs pointing the way, but they were big on saying it wouldn't be a themepark, but looks like they instead will give us smartphones with everything we've every wanted to know in our pocket. At least in a themepark you have to go to the next ride to know what is going on.
They are taking everything everquest 1 and 2 players loved and ignoring it.
I doubt many are going to like it honestly.
While I won't disagree, I also believe much of what some folks enjoyed about EQ/EQ2 is not unique and can be found in many games and or doesn't exist in either game today regardless. While there is much I enjoyed about EQ in the early years, most of the mechanics I could do without. Although I would enjoy to run around in another Everquest themed world.
I agree and if you strip away the "WoW themepark" aspects of EQ and EQ2 (more the latter than the former) the elements that are left can easily be found in EQN if the developers want it there. Large, explorable (and interactive) world, importance of player acuity, group or group-ish content, knowing how to play specific roles, etc. could all be found in EQN and would make it a successor to EQ/EQ2. I understand that the absence of certain staples like tab targeting detract from this but I like the idea of creating a new meaningful first time experience. Hopefully DGC feels the same way, we'll see.
I am hyped about it a little due to the IP and the current drought effecting mmorpg's at this time. After dipping my toes into the free to play, and the sub with pay to win style...I am ready for another monthly sub game with honest developers just looking forward to delivering a rich fantasy playground with deep character customization and the ability to go out into the lands and create your own memories with friends and meet new ones.
Every game has a shelf life and there are reasons why gaming has changed over the years since EQ.
1. There is no class X online so we can't do this progression content. (Able to play multiple classes)
2. Nobody in the zones I am leveling in are interested in doing dungeons.. (dungeon/group finder que system)
3. It takes 10 minutes to get full mana then fight for 8 then med for 10.... (timer related spells/abilities with shorter cooldowns)
4. Lost all my stuff that took 4 months to get since my corpse rotted in plain of fear (corpse graveyard where you can summon corpse from anywhere in the game)
5. Don't have anyone to cast clarity, haste, sow... (potions can be purchased for the same effect)
6. Nobody close to my level on to group with. (Hired npc party member)
7. No Wizards or druids around to get our group together from cross continents. (POK with portal stones everywhere)
On and on it goes. Basically games have evolved since 99 days and even EQ has evolved and taken almost all of those problems and dealt with them in one way or another.
We live in a time of uncertainty in the gaming world. Guildwars 2 was a success, however I am no fan of totally removing the trinity. I prefer the healer, pet classes, crowd controllers, tanks, stealthers, ranged, jack of all styles. Basically I can see the benefit of the class system EQN is trying for. I just hope each class has enough structure within it to be interesting on it's own and provide within it, future growth.
They obviously needed alot more time to work on classes and balancing and all aspects of the game. It may actually not become reality until 2017. In the meantime I will be looking forward to a few other games we have all heard of that should be coming out later this year or sometime in 2016.
I am hyped about it a little due to the IP and the current drought effecting mmorpg's at this time. After dipping my toes into the free to play, and the sub with pay to win style...I am ready for another monthly sub game with honest developers just looking forward to delivering a rich fantasy playground with deep character customization and the ability to go out into the lands and create your own memories with friends and meet new ones.
Every game has a shelf life and there are reasons why gaming has changed over the years since EQ.
..............
On and on it goes. Basically games have evolved since 99 days and even EQ has evolved and taken almost all of those problems and dealt with them in one way or another.
We live in a time of uncertainty in the gaming world. Guildwars 2 was a success, however I am no fan of totally removing the trinity. I prefer the healer, pet classes, crowd controllers, tanks, stealthers, ranged, jack of all styles. Basically I can see the benefit of the class system EQN is trying for. I just hope each class has enough structure within it to be interesting on it's own and provide within it, future growth.
They obviously needed a lot more time to work on classes and balancing and all aspects of the game. It may actually not become reality until 2017. In the meantime I will be looking forward to a few other games we have all heard of that should be coming out later this year or sometime in 2016.
Not currently a fan of EQ/EQ2 then?
The OP asked for the attitude of fans and you replied?
Funny that, but join the throng of other posters in the same category.
However in your post your refer to classes and class balancing. You seem to have missed the stuff from SOE(now DBG) about how they were pretty much doing away with classes by allowing every character to have multiple classes, not quite to the point of every class but pretty nearly that. Of course this may have changed, but as they are not talking much at the moment so we have to go with what was said previously.
Comments
When I play an RPG, I want it to be about the character, not me. I lose that immersion factor if I'm focusing too much on motor reflexes, number crunching and teamspeak.
Lets debate or at least have a focused discussion?
I'll try to stay objective, but feel free to dispute any of this with factual information, I can try to provide evidence if needed.
Let me just point this out in regards to the double standard I see here.
Saying negative things about a game or company is bad.
Saying negative things about people for having negative views about a game is somehow ok?
Sorry, but I just don't think you and a couple others have the moral high ground you think you have to launch personal attacks on people instead of discussing a game. I hope you see the hypocrisy here. playing internet psychologist in some effort to pretend you know what a person is like based on a few posts on a gaming forum?
You really know little about me and your assumptions are primarily wrong. Just for example, I'm currently play an SOE game and enjoy it very much.
Anyhow. I'd like to try to clear up a misconception I think exists.
I don't think everything the developers say is a lie. I'm sure they share plenty of information that has sound foundation. However, this company does have a history of flat out lying to their player base. They also have a history of making misleading and intentionally ambiguous comments, especially when they are facing problems or want to downplay something. I think anyone can factually claim that these developers have a history of being untrustworthy and any claims they make are not beyond suspicion.
Here are some examples of what I mean:
People found the job listing that eventually led to Dave Geogeson coming on board with SOE and it was looking for someone with experience running/designing microtransactions in memo's. Players were obviously concerned SOE was going to convert their existing games to FTP. SOE and Smed flat out said Dave was hired to work on unannounced games and none of their existing games would be affected. Even going as far to restate those claims a few times to EQ and EQ2 fans as those changes started showing up in their games. As we all now know, Dave ended up in charge of and converting all thru existing games to F2P model against every claim that they would not be. Dave was a targeted hire and games started converting soon after.
another would be the crafted presser about how Daybreak still has all the work they did with storybricks and they were taking the AI in house.
If you read that statement it seems specifically designed to let the reader infer conclusions that don't seem to be stated anywhere with any certainty. It doesn't say if any of the work they did with storybricks worked or was completed enough for them to continue workingnon. it doesn't say if they AI they are taking in house is based on storybricks. It really doesn't say much other than they are working on the AI without any outside support. Since then the tone about the AI in the game has been muffled and doesn't seem to talk about the grand things promised from storybricks. Just passing comments about intelligent AI, but nothing more.
Yet some point to these comments as if work is steaming along and storybricks is still the key central feature of the game.
So I hope you understand why some people don't fully trust the developers and that yes, there is sound reasoning behind those doubts. You consider them then only source of information which is your choice, but what they don't say is just as important, if not more important.
No, but if the game is anywhere near what was shown in the initial announcement, sure. The problem is that I have absolutely no faith in Daybreak to pull that kind of game off.
All the faith I did have was gone after they turned Landmark into a full F2P game that requires you to pay or grind for resources, instead of the creative design tool for EQN content as it was initially announced.
I said yes, but let's just say, after Daybreak Studios handling of EQ's new progression server is, in any way, an indicator of how this studio operates, then I have lost a lot of hope for Everquest Next.
How are they going to produce even half of what this game promises if they can't even handle the addition of a single server in a 15-year-old game well?
There really isn't much revealed about the game to actually discuss as you are trying to put it and most of what has been revealed has not been received well. You would like to discuss what 'could happen', but don't seem to want to hear both sides of that potential or that those not sharing your views are somehow ignorant to something only you know about.
Don't expect people to speculate and then get upset when that speculation is almost universally negative.
If you continually reference what the developers claim in order to point out someone elses 'ignorance', then you need to be prepared to discuss those developers. That is naturally going to bring up their history, performance and reliability. Again, you shouldn't get upset when that is almost universally negative. Criticizing people for not agreeing with you isn't going to alter reality.
You essentially wrote a wall of text to say you want people to only speculate on what good things might happen, ignore everything else and go away if they don't agree with you.
I'm of the opinion that this game is approaching vaporware status. If it does ever make it to release, it will be in a form drastically different than the first or second incarnations of the driving vision.
It appears that Landmark was less successful than they anticipated and it has hampered development of both titles and played into (not the singular cause!) why SoE was sold. I think the logical thing here is Daybreak, if indeed they are still making the game (I don't care what anyone says, I'm unconvinced this is fact), is going to strip away most of the original ambitions to cut expenses and push out a cheaper made, less ambitious attempt to recoup all the losses incurred over the years. I'd say almost all hope for a truly next gen AAA game are gone, and I'm not convinced the game ever would have been all that great in the first place. It always seemed that they misunderstood the reasons why people loved EQ, what those fans wanted to see in a spiritual successor (hint: player interdependence, community driven), and that their primary focus was overambitious (read: $$$) mob AI (should probably worry about fundamental game mechanics first, but what do I know).
no, i am not.
i am more hyped about pantheon rise of the fallen, which isn't saying much.
Guess my ramblings aren't clear. I want to discuss THE GAME. Good, bad, negative, positive, praise, critical views etc. What people love, hate, want to change, what looks stupid, awesome, crazy, and so on.
What you are doing is giving a history lesson on SOE's past that anyone with experience should know. You aren't discussing the game at all.
To me it is like jumping into a Camaro forum to be critical of Chey's past.
While semi-relevant, doesn't really make sense. At least to me, the point of this forum in particular is to discuss EQN the game.
While other things can fit into the context, since the drama of them being sold, that is all that people have gone on about (don't believe you posted here prior to that).
The few posts actually trying to discuss newer info about THE GAME have had little response. Guess if it isn't drama, not worth discussing.
While you know a lot about the company, no idea if you know anything about the game as nothing you talk about is about it.
You also seem to equate the company to some faceless Borg entity. Regardless of who the current devs are or what has happened to the company, anything they've done in the past overshadows that and what one has said and done equals all that will every take place. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Maybe they should make a sub forum for bashing the company and another to discuss the actual game? Would make me happy I guess
Oh well, it is what it is and until they start mass delivering details, I doubt the conversation will change much. As I said previously, I've pretty much had it with this site and all the negative individuals that seem to dislike pretty much everything. Hope listing all the mistakes of SOE makes your time here more enjoyable, but I'm going to stick to discussions about the actual GAME itself, not what could or couldn't happen based on what happened years ago on a different product from a different group of devs with completely different circumstances.
Then perhaps you should go find a fansite where only happy thoughts are allowed.
You seem to want to convert this site to fit your own personal standards of what can or can't be discussed. Ironically things I talk about is related to the game, while you have devolved into discussing me. For all your talk about not wanting to discuss non-game related things, you and the few other defenders seem to engage in this far too much.
Perhaps you are following the wrong games if all you see is negatives. There have been some crazy hyped optimistic views of upcoming games, but if you hang out in the forums of a company with a track record like SOE/Daybreaks, then don't act surprised when very few people expect a decent product.
Just in case you forget which thread this was, this thread was asking if people were still hyped about this game and the answer seems to be no. It is an opinion thread. Don't like the opinions, don't read the thread.
That I take full responsibility for. As the drama surrounding EQN/Daybreak seems to have passed and its just a handful of us spinning our wheels, I'll simply walk away from the discussion. If others engage you, that's on them.
I'm sure there will be more "Where are you Daybreak" "Give us more now" "Is all hope lost" and other such deep discussion starters. I'll leave you to enjoy your doom crusade. Maybe at some point you might actually talk about the game. But then again, this isn't a happy fansite, so talking about a game is crazy...
No worries Allein, your fine. You know there is not reaching someone when they excuse their hate posts by telling you to goto another forum. Like its your fault and your just on the wrong web site lol
i was hyped, but after playing landmark combat system... meh...
Combat system need be better. every think else seems good tho.
They are taking everything everquest 1 and 2 players loved and ignoring it.
I doubt many are going to like it honestly.
While I won't disagree, I also believe much of what some folks enjoyed about EQ/EQ2 is not unique and can be found in many games and or doesn't exist in either game today regardless. While there is much I enjoyed about EQ in the early years, most of the mechanics I could do without. Although I would enjoy to run around in another Everquest themed world.
Ya I gotta stop falling into the mindless discussion with some of them.
Find it very interesting that even though I welcome all discussions, I some how am telling people to leave if they don't agree with me, but since I don't agree with them, I should leave.
Oh well, unfortunate some people find so much negativity in video games.
Very true.
The combat system leave a lot to be desired, regardless if it is alpha/beta whatever. To leave it in such a state for so long doesn't make much sense if they are internally updating it.
The progress/achievement system bothers me as well and why I most likely won't enjoy EQN if it follows the design. No real mystery, simply took the quest hub and NPCs directing the way and stuck it in UI we have at all times.
Not expecting EQ design where there is zero signs pointing the way, but they were big on saying it wouldn't be a themepark, but looks like they instead will give us smartphones with everything we've every wanted to know in our pocket. At least in a themepark you have to go to the next ride to know what is going on.
I agree and if you strip away the "WoW themepark" aspects of EQ and EQ2 (more the latter than the former) the elements that are left can easily be found in EQN if the developers want it there. Large, explorable (and interactive) world, importance of player acuity, group or group-ish content, knowing how to play specific roles, etc. could all be found in EQN and would make it a successor to EQ/EQ2. I understand that the absence of certain staples like tab targeting detract from this but I like the idea of creating a new meaningful first time experience. Hopefully DGC feels the same way, we'll see.
I am hyped about it a little due to the IP and the current drought effecting mmorpg's at this time. After dipping my toes into the free to play, and the sub with pay to win style...I am ready for another monthly sub game with honest developers just looking forward to delivering a rich fantasy playground with deep character customization and the ability to go out into the lands and create your own memories with friends and meet new ones.
Every game has a shelf life and there are reasons why gaming has changed over the years since EQ.
1. There is no class X online so we can't do this progression content. (Able to play multiple classes)
2. Nobody in the zones I am leveling in are interested in doing dungeons.. (dungeon/group finder que system)
3. It takes 10 minutes to get full mana then fight for 8 then med for 10.... (timer related spells/abilities with shorter cooldowns)
4. Lost all my stuff that took 4 months to get since my corpse rotted in plain of fear (corpse graveyard where you can summon corpse from anywhere in the game)
5. Don't have anyone to cast clarity, haste, sow... (potions can be purchased for the same effect)
6. Nobody close to my level on to group with. (Hired npc party member)
7. No Wizards or druids around to get our group together from cross continents. (POK with portal stones everywhere)
On and on it goes. Basically games have evolved since 99 days and even EQ has evolved and taken almost all of those problems and dealt with them in one way or another.
We live in a time of uncertainty in the gaming world. Guildwars 2 was a success, however I am no fan of totally removing the trinity. I prefer the healer, pet classes, crowd controllers, tanks, stealthers, ranged, jack of all styles. Basically I can see the benefit of the class system EQN is trying for. I just hope each class has enough structure within it to be interesting on it's own and provide within it, future growth.
They obviously needed alot more time to work on classes and balancing and all aspects of the game. It may actually not become reality until 2017. In the meantime I will be looking forward to a few other games we have all heard of that should be coming out later this year or sometime in 2016.
Not currently a fan of EQ/EQ2 then?
The OP asked for the attitude of fans and you replied?
Funny that, but join the throng of other posters in the same category.
However in your post your refer to classes and class balancing. You seem to have missed the stuff from SOE(now DBG) about how they were pretty much doing away with classes by allowing every character to have multiple classes, not quite to the point of every class but pretty nearly that. Of course this may have changed, but as they are not talking much at the moment so we have to go with what was said previously.