Subscription is barrier to entry - making it higher only makes it worse.
F2P + cash shop is the most popular model for online games for a reason - it works better than every other option for vast majority of games - which again is self evident.
This pretty much is the way it is.
We had a large growth in on-line use (gaming and what not) started back around UO and EQ time. Then WOW struck the loto when they released.
But...the VAST majority of people that play games on-line are, and always will be browser, and or facebook type games. Not people that will or would pay any type of subs really. Paying more in subs does not make the games grow better nor increase the market.
All this is just pipe dreams of jaded gamers. Somehow thinking that more sub fee's would equal better gaming for them.
Sub is not barrier to entry. Sub is the best option and it's why almost every MMO first tried to start as a P2P, but forced to F2P when underperformed. Only the best of the best products out there can remain P2P for long period otherwise World of Warcraft and EVE Online would've followed the F2P road long time ago.
There are browser/facebook gamers, mobile gamers, console gamers and PC gamers. I also don't recall through my school years my friends to ever spoke about playing any browser games when a lot of great PC games existed and still do, so that "majority" claim is highly doubtful.
Sub being a barrier to entry is an undisputable fact - you lose out all the players who:
- don't like subs (they have money just don't like subscriptions models- many fall in this category)
- People who are unwilling to pay upfront just to try the game
- People who want to spend less than subscription per month - you lose out on those who only want to spend $5 for example
- People who want to spend MORE than subscription because they value their time and have a lot of disposable income so they want to pay for "faster advancement" even if it means spending $100s
It is pretty much impossible to have any kind of meaningful discussion if you are not willing to accept that subscriptions are in fact a barrier of entry.
Now the flip side is - there are people who dislkike F2P and will refuse to play F2P games - the thing is this group is such a tiny minority, dev studios have chosen F2P and are completely ignoring this segment because it's that minute
You know what is really minute? The amount of people who play F2P games that actually spend money. Yet F2P games can still make a killing financially. The amount of people out there who refuse to play F2P games makes no difference as long as the whales keep walking through the door.
Even if a huge chunk of the market refused to play F2P games I don't see the companies churning out F2P games changing anything. The model works too well for them and most of the people who want a subscription game are already playing WoW. (or FFXIV)
The f2p system has no reason to change. People want to feel strong in a game. Have a reason to claim they're better than everyone else. If dropping any amount of money without putting yourself in the red could do that then of course they will. Now when a whale sees a p2p game of course he hates it. What's the whale going to do? He becomes a generic user where his stockpile of money gets him nowhere. Sure, he could buy stuff under the table. That in itself is a risk though. I think in this day and age if a p2p game lasts as that model for over a year we have to take our hats off to it.(with a steady userbase not on lifesupport like wildstar!) At the end of the day though just because 95% of the mmos out there are f2p. Why does the other 5% have to change if they can still make a profit?
Every MMO released in 10 years has aimed to be cheaper yet comparable to WoW. WoW is a $15/ mo game and it's worth every penny of it's $15/mo. The reason we can't find games we like is because games aren't worth their subs, except for WoW. The next game that finally is the 'wow killer' isn't going to be cheaper, it's going to be bigger, better and more expensive, and players are going to love paying every penny to be in the experience.
We all whine and moan about f2p, item malls, p2p, b2p... while the fact is a true first class MMO is worth every penny of it's sub. Not some chinese garbage dressed up to satisfy a western audience, I mean a real MMO that leaves you feeling the way you felt the first time you watched 300 every time you log in.
Can a developer please aim to make a MMO of this calibur and quit giving us less than or equal to WoWs?
Thanks
lol .. you think people will pay $35 a month when they can find plenty of fun games for FREE?
And why would you think people still like "real MMO". I think they like the new broadened MMOs like MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and other types of online games. Just look at the numbers.
On average, people pay substantially more than $15 / month to play "FREE" games.
A majority of people don't pay anything for f2p games. A few whales subsidizes the majority.
Originally posted by macwood Is wow worth $15? What do they give you each month that makes it worth it?
Fun. A lot of it. More fun then any other hobby that is only 15 bucks.
Fun is subjective.
WoW gets old and it is less fun for me than Marvel Heroes, Warframe, STO and most SP games by now. And that is just games. I would prefer to read novels, watch good tv, and many other things than WoW.
Subscription is barrier to entry - making it higher only makes it worse.
F2P + cash shop is the most popular model for online games for a reason - it works better than every other option for vast majority of games - which again is self evident.
This pretty much is the way it is.
We had a large growth in on-line use (gaming and what not) started back around UO and EQ time. Then WOW struck the loto when they released.
But...the VAST majority of people that play games on-line are, and always will be browser, and or facebook type games. Not people that will or would pay any type of subs really. Paying more in subs does not make the games grow better nor increase the market.
All this is just pipe dreams of jaded gamers. Somehow thinking that more sub fee's would equal better gaming for them.
Sub is not barrier to entry. Sub is the best option and it's why almost every MMO first tried to start as a P2P, but forced to F2P when underperformed. Only the best of the best products out there can remain P2P for long period otherwise World of Warcraft and EVE Online would've followed the F2P road long time ago.
There are browser/facebook gamers, mobile gamers, console gamers and PC gamers. I also don't recall through my school years my friends to ever spoke about playing any browser games when a lot of great PC games existed and still do, so that "majority" claim is highly doubtful.
Sub being a barrier to entry is an undisputable fact - you lose out all the players who:
- don't like subs (they have money just don't like subscriptions models- many fall in this category)
- People who are unwilling to pay upfront just to try the game
- People who want to spend less than subscription per month - you lose out on those who only want to spend $5 for example
- People who want to spend MORE than subscription because they value their time and have a lot of disposable income so they want to pay for "faster advancement" even if it means spending $100s
It is pretty much impossible to have any kind of meaningful discussion if you are not willing to accept that subscriptions are in fact a barrier of entry.
Now the flip side is - there are people who dislkike F2P and will refuse to play F2P games - the thing is this group is such a tiny minority, dev studios have chosen F2P and are completely ignoring this segment because it's that minute
The only players I can think of that don't like a monthly sub are those who like P2W products or those not interested in spending any amount of $. If the game is barrier to those players, then good riddance. Keep in mind we are also talking about P2P models, not B2P+P2P, which means the amount of $ one would spend to try the game for full 30 days would be minimal compared to what he would be paying for long term. Then you forget the fact that even a P2P title can have a free/unlimited trial in place. Add the many reviews/feedback and videos from both prominent sites and players alike once the game is launched to make a opinion if the game is worth subbing or not.
As you can see the barrier you have in place is actually a beneficial barrier for the game. It will protect and shield it from many negative aspects which I won't even bother to name here. This is essential for a successful MMORPG with a persistent world and functional, player driven economy. It's why the earlier MMORPG's from EQ and UO introduced this in first place. It was also far more simpler design that opened them a lot more time to focus on other things over cash shops, bot/spam protection and what not.
Finally, the last type of players that might not benefit from a sub are those who barely log on through the month, but I doubt there are a lot who are that casual and if they are they would most likely benefit far more from different genre games.
The only players I can think of that don't like a monthly sub are those who like P2W products or those not interested in spending any amount of $. If the game is barrier to those players, then good riddance.
Really? You think devs want to cater to a smaller group of customers, instead of a larger group?
The only players I can think of that don't like a monthly sub are those who like P2W products or those not interested in spending any amount of $. If the game is barrier to those players, then good riddance.
Really? You think devs want to cater to a smaller group of customers, instead of a larger group?
They don't qualify as customers if they aren't spending (purchasing their product), key part you missed out on.
The quality of any game, be it MMO or stand alone, is not in how high the price of entry can be made. The quality of the game is in the GAME PLAY. I do not care if you make an MMO with a $200 sub per month, it will not assure that it would have great gameplay. It could just as easily be a $200 per month turkey as it could be a great game. So, don't ever say that $40 (or $200) per month sub is going to make the "next big MMO" because it is never a sure thing.
Almost half are happy with the current quality of games and half would gladly pay extra for superior experience.
based on 101 votes, half would pay more. Half of 101 does not keep servers alive. I wouldnt touch a subscription game if it charges more than the $16 i currently have to pay no matter how good it is.
Almost half are happy with the current quality of games and half would gladly pay extra for superior experience.
based on 101 votes, half would pay more. Half of 101 does not keep servers alive. I wouldnt touch a subscription game if it charges more than the $16 i currently have to pay no matter how good it is.
Higher price is NOT the solution.
Asheron Call was 9.99 for a monthly fee over time they push it up, I am sure mmo that are now that ask for $15 just overtime there going ask more to keep them self running with content + server fee, it's not going get cheaper.
Every MMO released in 10 years has aimed to be cheaper yet comparable to WoW. WoW is a $15/ mo game and it's worth every penny of it's $15/mo. The reason we can't find games we like is because games aren't worth their subs, except for WoW. The next game that finally is the 'wow killer' isn't going to be cheaper, it's going to be bigger, better and more expensive, and players are going to love paying every penny to be in the experience.
We all whine and moan about f2p, item malls, p2p, b2p... while the fact is a true first class MMO is worth every penny of it's sub. Not some chinese garbage dressed up to satisfy a western audience, I mean a real MMO that leaves you feeling the way you felt the first time you watched 300 every time you log in.
Can a developer please aim to make a MMO of this calibur and quit giving us less than or equal to WoWs?
Thanks
Let me educate you on a few things. Everything you said is opinionated, so i shall reply with my opinion mixed in with facts. Not every MMO has aimed to be comparable to WoW. This is a false statement. The worth of a product comes from the user experience. While you might say that its worth the $15 dollars a month, a different user might beg to differ. People might think that the monthly sub to Star wars online is worth every penny, while you disagree. WoW has already been killed. There are mobile games that generate just as much money as WoW in a month, if not more.
if you do the math, in a 1 month span, its sales kill WoW. This is where the future of gaming is going. Mobile games. At least until/if VR picks up. As of right now, the MMO market is trying to cater to its niche markets. ESO being the last big budget MMO that tried to cater to the masses, and didnt do as well as they planned.
Also using 300 as a hype reference? REally? Here are some better ones imo.
1) first time Goku goes SSJ
2)Luffy uses jet gattling
3)Banner goes Hulk when he meets up with the avengers in the first movie. During the battle of New York.
Every MMO released in 10 years has aimed to be cheaper yet comparable to WoW. WoW is a $15/ mo game and it's worth every penny of it's $15/mo. The reason we can't find games we like is because games aren't worth their subs, except for WoW. The next game that finally is the 'wow killer' isn't going to be cheaper, it's going to be bigger, better and more expensive, and players are going to love paying every penny to be in the experience.
We all whine and moan about f2p, item malls, p2p, b2p... while the fact is a true first class MMO is worth every penny of it's sub. Not some chinese garbage dressed up to satisfy a western audience, I mean a real MMO that leaves you feeling the way you felt the first time you watched 300 every time you log in.
Can a developer please aim to make a MMO of this calibur and quit giving us less than or equal to WoWs?
Thanks
So your answer for why subscription MMO is dying is to make them more expensive? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Wow I needed that dose of humor today! Thanks OP for making my night more enjoyable!
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
If a game had the following I would pay up to $50/month for a sub
Solid PvE
Solid PvP
Guild Focused Endgame
Strong Economy
Horizontal Progress in terms of gear
Indept Stat System
Involves more to combat then button mashing to get maximum dps. (Crowd control, hate control, mob positing ect)
Good Crafting and Gathering
Large Meaningful Openworld (Not just for leveling)
Solid Mix of Instance and Non-instance endgame
Long Lasting Content (aka content that has a purpose for more then 1 expansion/patch)
More content then is possible to complete before a new expansion comes (Endless content). THis mean have enough content in the game in 1 expansion to keep someone playing 40+hrs a week busy, not counting PvP and Alt leveling
There is no cash shop period. Not even a vanity only cashshop.
To say the least.... no themepark mmo has ever came close to the above, so in my opinion most mmos that are subs are not worth subs. The older mmos that were have been dumbed down to the point of not being worth subs.
WoW in my opinion does not have enough relevant content to be worth $15/month, XIV is in the same boat. Polish wise and such they are easily worth it.
I do not see any themepark mmo being able to release enough content to be worth a sub. They will either need a development staff of 600 ppl or they will have to risk pissing off the casuals and make content that takes more then a few hours to do night. Both of these situations I do not see happening.
Pretty much im more than happy to pay more for a quality product atm 90% of games that are sub based arnt worth there subsciption fee imo.
Like u said if the game had these points (With the exception i wanna see meaningfull solid open world PvP GvG type citie seiges and things like that) Im a PvP kinda guy (Although meaningless mindless ganking and what not isnt to much my thing) If i had a player city and a territory i can defend, raid enemy guild cities and territories and things im all for
Originally posted by macwood Is wow worth $15? What do they give you each month that makes it worth it?
Fun. A lot of it. More fun then any other hobby that is only 15 bucks.
Fun is subjective.
WoW gets old and it is less fun for me than Marvel Heroes, Warframe, STO and most SP games by now. And that is just games. I would prefer to read novels, watch good tv, and many other things than WoW.
Exactly.
But what else could a game give you? If you have fun, it is worth 15 bucks. If it does not, it is not worth your time at all. A game you only play because it is free is effectivly a waste of your time.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I don't know why is this such a hard concept for your thick skulls. Mindlessly throwing cash at developer does not make a game good. They sell you access, not updates. As such, the sub is going away. Even Netflix is cheaper when it comes to service and believe me, they have higher bandwidth costs.
$35 a month? Hmm, hard to say. Although I must admit, I would be curious to see what a MMORPG requiring such a sub would look like ( not that I would ever be able to afford it....) As the OP said, $15 a month has been the standard for over 10 years now ( thanks to WOW, can't believe I'm thankful to WOW for something....). It's economics, the cost of living has gone up since then; so maybe in order to make better games, the subs will need to as well. Only problem is, to pull a stunt like that in the middle of a struggling economy; would definitely take some guts. Increasing the sub is not the answer, but may be the byproduct of getting a better game.
The code of the pessimistic loner: "We unpopular loners are realists, who follow the three non- popular principles: Not having any (Hope), Not making any (Gaps in your heart); And not giving into (Sweet talk)".
$35 is almost the price of a full price game, and obviously it's impossible to create the amount of content that this price tag to command. Put it this way, if they could, they would be releasing expansions every month for an additional $20 right now, what we see however is WOW releasing 2 weeks of content every 18 months lol.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
These forums never cease to amuse. OP is completely out of his mind if he thinks people will pay 35 bucks a month for ANY game, no matter how good it is.
The nostalgia lords on this site, and in the MMO community in general, need a huge wake up call. The age of Sub-Based MMOGS has passed. No game trying to break into the market is going to have a sub fee and be successful, period. The reason games like WoW and EvE still use sub models, is because they already have established, loyal fanbases, and yet even the mighty WoW is bleeding subs like crazy.
And this may be a bit off topic, but to the same group of people: Stop demanding that developers makes games based on your rose-tinted view of the "Golden Age" of MMOs. Number one, those games probably aren't as good as you thought they were, and even if they were good back then, it doesn't mean those same gameplay mechanics have aged well. Number Two, when your demands DO get catered to, you never put your money where your mouth is. For a perfect example of BOTH, look at what happened to Wildstar, a game made specifically to appeal to old school WoW fans who hate the current state of WoW (A.K.A An alarmingly high number of the frequent posters on this site.)
And this goes double for the EQN haters that think the game should be exactly like the original Everquest. I'm sorry, but isn't the #1 complaint about the state of the MMO industry is that basically every game since 2004 hasn't bothered to break from the EQ/WoW formula? And yet you sit at your computer and demand more of the same?! Gee, I wonder why the MMO genre is at death's door.
These forums never cease to amuse. OP is completely out of his mind if he thinks people will pay 35 bucks a month for ANY game, no matter how good it is.
The nostalgia lords on this site, and in the MMO community in general, need a huge wake up call. The age of Sub-Based MMOGS has passed. No game trying to break into the market is going to have a sub fee and be successful, period. The reason games like WoW and EvE still use sub models, is because they already have established, loyal fanbases, and yet even the mighty WoW is bleeding subs like crazy.
And this may be a bit off topic, but to the same group of people: Stop demanding that developers makes games based on your rose-tinted view of the "Golden Age" of MMOs. Number one, those games probably aren't as good as you thought they were, and even if they were good back then, it doesn't mean those same gameplay mechanics have aged well. Number Two, when your demands DO get catered to, you never put your money where your mouth is. For a perfect example of BOTH, look at what happened to Wildstar, a game made specifically to appeal to old school WoW fans who hate the current state of WoW (A.K.A An alarmingly high number of the frequent posters on this site.)
And this goes double for the EQN haters that think the game should be exactly like the original Everquest. I'm sorry, but isn't the #1 complaint about the state of the MMO industry is that basically every game since 2004 hasn't bothered to break from the EQ/WoW formula? And yet you sit at your computer and demand more of the same?! Gee, I wonder why the MMO genre is at death's door.
?_? I need a drink.
LOL, we need a wake up call? Because we know what we like and want it?
Now I do not begrudge any of you who like the current crop of games out there, have fun .... have lots of fun. But do not expect me to like them because you do. I know what I like and what I am willing to spend time and money on, and they are not it.
I do not demand that developers make games to meet my expectations, but I do post here and elsewhere saying what it is that I want in the hope that games like that are made. Oh and by the way, Wildstar was not it, it was a SciFi game with lots of AOE dancing not interested in either.
I do not hate EQ Not!, what I do say is that as it is not an Everquest game they should call it something else. I do not think it will be released, and if released will fall well short of the Dave Georgeson hype, but if you like what may be released go for it.
Oh and I for one would be more than $35 a month for a game I thought was worth my time and money. IF it was good enough I would pay $100 a month a think it cheap entertainment.
Finally the game I play at the moment is P99, that's right Everquest as it was before it got "improved" to death.
These forums never cease to amuse. OP is completely out of his mind if he thinks people will pay 35 bucks a month for ANY game, no matter how good it is.
The nostalgia lords on this site, and in the MMO community in general, need a huge wake up call. The age of Sub-Based MMOGS has passed. No game trying to break into the market is going to have a sub fee and be successful, period. The reason games like WoW and EvE still use sub models, is because they already have established, loyal fanbases, and yet even the mighty WoW is bleeding subs like crazy.
And this may be a bit off topic, but to the same group of people: Stop demanding that developers makes games based on your rose-tinted view of the "Golden Age" of MMOs. Number one, those games probably aren't as good as you thought they were, and even if they were good back then, it doesn't mean those same gameplay mechanics have aged well. Number Two, when your demands DO get catered to, you never put your money where your mouth is. For a perfect example of BOTH, look at what happened to Wildstar, a game made specifically to appeal to old school WoW fans who hate the current state of WoW (A.K.A An alarmingly high number of the frequent posters on this site.)
And this goes double for the EQN haters that think the game should be exactly like the original Everquest. I'm sorry, but isn't the #1 complaint about the state of the MMO industry is that basically every game since 2004 hasn't bothered to break from the EQ/WoW formula? And yet you sit at your computer and demand more of the same?! Gee, I wonder why the MMO genre is at death's door.
?_? I need a drink.
LOL, we need a wake up call? Because we know what we like and want it?
Now I do not begrudge any of you who like the current crop of games out there, have fun .... have lots of fun. But do not expect me to like them because you do. I know what I like and what I am willing to spend time and money on, and they are not it.
I do not demand that developers make games to meet my expectations, but I do post here and elsewhere saying what it is that I want in the hope that games like that are made. Oh and by the way, Wildstar was not it, it was a SciFi game with lots of AOE dancing not interested in either.
I do not hate EQ Not!, what I do say is that as it is not an Everquest game they should call it something else. I do not think it will be released, and if released will fall well short of the Dave Georgeson hype, but if you like what may be released go for it.
Oh and I for one would be more than $35 a month for a game I thought was worth my time and money. IF it was good enough I would pay $100 a month a think it cheap entertainment.
Finally the game I play at the moment is P99, that's right Everquest as it was before it got "improved" to death.
Hey, if you enjoy P1999, more power to you. Quick question for you: do you think the current population of P99 would be enough to keep an MMO financially afloat in this day and age?
You see, the problem with an MMO, is that it doesn't matter if YOU like it, what matters is that LOTS of people like it. You can like whatever kind of MMO you want, but if there aren't enough like minded people, the game won't last. It sucks, but it's the truth.
These forums never cease to amuse. OP is completely out of his mind if he thinks people will pay 35 bucks a month for ANY game, no matter how good it is.
The nostalgia lords on this site, and in the MMO community in general, need a huge wake up call. The age of Sub-Based MMOGS has passed. No game trying to break into the market is going to have a sub fee and be successful, period. The reason games like WoW and EvE still use sub models, is because they already have established, loyal fanbases, and yet even the mighty WoW is bleeding subs like crazy.
B2P plus charging for expansions then? Please don't say F2P, only MMORPG that comes to mind is Archeage, and that one still gives me nightmares..... Just curious, not trying to pick a fight.
The code of the pessimistic loner: "We unpopular loners are realists, who follow the three non- popular principles: Not having any (Hope), Not making any (Gaps in your heart); And not giving into (Sweet talk)".
These forums never cease to amuse. OP is completely out of his mind if he thinks people will pay 35 bucks a month for ANY game, no matter how good it is.
The nostalgia lords on this site, and in the MMO community in general, need a huge wake up call. The age of Sub-Based MMOGS has passed. No game trying to break into the market is going to have a sub fee and be successful, period. The reason games like WoW and EvE still use sub models, is because they already have established, loyal fanbases, and yet even the mighty WoW is bleeding subs like crazy.
And this may be a bit off topic, but to the same group of people: Stop demanding that developers makes games based on your rose-tinted view of the "Golden Age" of MMOs. Number one, those games probably aren't as good as you thought they were, and even if they were good back then, it doesn't mean those same gameplay mechanics have aged well. Number Two, when your demands DO get catered to, you never put your money where your mouth is. For a perfect example of BOTH, look at what happened to Wildstar, a game made specifically to appeal to old school WoW fans who hate the current state of WoW (A.K.A An alarmingly high number of the frequent posters on this site.)
And this goes double for the EQN haters that think the game should be exactly like the original Everquest. I'm sorry, but isn't the #1 complaint about the state of the MMO industry is that basically every game since 2004 hasn't bothered to break from the EQ/WoW formula? And yet you sit at your computer and demand more of the same?! Gee, I wonder why the MMO genre is at death's door.
?_? I need a drink.
LOL, we need a wake up call? Because we know what we like and want it?
Now I do not begrudge any of you who like the current crop of games out there, have fun .... have lots of fun. But do not expect me to like them because you do. I know what I like and what I am willing to spend time and money on, and they are not it.
I do not demand that developers make games to meet my expectations, but I do post here and elsewhere saying what it is that I want in the hope that games like that are made. Oh and by the way, Wildstar was not it, it was a SciFi game with lots of AOE dancing not interested in either.
I do not hate EQ Not!, what I do say is that as it is not an Everquest game they should call it something else. I do not think it will be released, and if released will fall well short of the Dave Georgeson hype, but if you like what may be released go for it.
Oh and I for one would be more than $35 a month for a game I thought was worth my time and money. IF it was good enough I would pay $100 a month a think it cheap entertainment.
Finally the game I play at the moment is P99, that's right Everquest as it was before it got "improved" to death.
Hey, if you enjoy P1999, more power to you. Quick question for you: do you think the current population of P99 would be enough to keep an MMO financially afloat in this day and age?
You see, the problem with an MMO, is that it doesn't matter if YOU like it, what matters is that LOTS of people like it. You can like whatever kind of MMO you want, but if there aren't enough like minded people, the game won't last. It sucks, but it's the truth.
LOL, well the population of P99 is enough to keep P99 going so yes that is pretty compelling evidence that it can.
But to take your question as you intended there are a lot more folks out there that would play a game like P99 that was released with contemporary technology a 64 bit client and modern graphics.
How many? I do not know, but I believe more than enough to support a couple of games that are true to the original form of the genre. Heck I firmly believe that there is an untapped audience of people my age (60+) and older who would play an immersive MMORPG without PvP or raiding.
Comments
I enjoy it, and I don't have to worry about microtransactions.
I self identify as a monkey.
You know what is really minute? The amount of people who play F2P games that actually spend money. Yet F2P games can still make a killing financially. The amount of people out there who refuse to play F2P games makes no difference as long as the whales keep walking through the door.
Even if a huge chunk of the market refused to play F2P games I don't see the companies churning out F2P games changing anything. The model works too well for them and most of the people who want a subscription game are already playing WoW. (or FFXIV)A majority of people don't pay anything for f2p games. A few whales subsidizes the majority.
Fun is subjective.
WoW gets old and it is less fun for me than Marvel Heroes, Warframe, STO and most SP games by now. And that is just games. I would prefer to read novels, watch good tv, and many other things than WoW.
The only players I can think of that don't like a monthly sub are those who like P2W products or those not interested in spending any amount of $. If the game is barrier to those players, then good riddance. Keep in mind we are also talking about P2P models, not B2P+P2P, which means the amount of $ one would spend to try the game for full 30 days would be minimal compared to what he would be paying for long term. Then you forget the fact that even a P2P title can have a free/unlimited trial in place. Add the many reviews/feedback and videos from both prominent sites and players alike once the game is launched to make a opinion if the game is worth subbing or not.
As you can see the barrier you have in place is actually a beneficial barrier for the game. It will protect and shield it from many negative aspects which I won't even bother to name here. This is essential for a successful MMORPG with a persistent world and functional, player driven economy. It's why the earlier MMORPG's from EQ and UO introduced this in first place. It was also far more simpler design that opened them a lot more time to focus on other things over cash shops, bot/spam protection and what not.
Finally, the last type of players that might not benefit from a sub are those who barely log on through the month, but I doubt there are a lot who are that casual and if they are they would most likely benefit far more from different genre games.
Really? You think devs want to cater to a smaller group of customers, instead of a larger group?
They don't qualify as customers if they aren't spending (purchasing their product), key part you missed out on.
The quality of any game, be it MMO or stand alone, is not in how high the price of entry can be made. The quality of the game is in the GAME PLAY. I do not care if you make an MMO with a $200 sub per month, it will not assure that it would have great gameplay. It could just as easily be a $200 per month turkey as it could be a great game. So, don't ever say that $40 (or $200) per month sub is going to make the "next big MMO" because it is never a sure thing.
Let's party like it is 1863!
based on 101 votes, half would pay more. Half of 101 does not keep servers alive. I wouldnt touch a subscription game if it charges more than the $16 i currently have to pay no matter how good it is.
Higher price is NOT the solution.
Asheron Call was 9.99 for a monthly fee over time they push it up, I am sure mmo that are now that ask for $15 just overtime there going ask more to keep them self running with content + server fee, it's not going get cheaper.
Let me educate you on a few things. Everything you said is opinionated, so i shall reply with my opinion mixed in with facts. Not every MMO has aimed to be comparable to WoW. This is a false statement. The worth of a product comes from the user experience. While you might say that its worth the $15 dollars a month, a different user might beg to differ. People might think that the monthly sub to Star wars online is worth every penny, while you disagree. WoW has already been killed. There are mobile games that generate just as much money as WoW in a month, if not more.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/05/13/mobile-hit-monster-strike-is-making-3-8-million-a-day/
if you do the math, in a 1 month span, its sales kill WoW. This is where the future of gaming is going. Mobile games. At least until/if VR picks up. As of right now, the MMO market is trying to cater to its niche markets. ESO being the last big budget MMO that tried to cater to the masses, and didnt do as well as they planned.
Also using 300 as a hype reference? REally? Here are some better ones imo.
1) first time Goku goes SSJ
2)Luffy uses jet gattling
3)Banner goes Hulk when he meets up with the avengers in the first movie. During the battle of New York.
So your answer for why subscription MMO is dying is to make them more expensive? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Wow I needed that dose of humor today! Thanks OP for making my night more enjoyable!
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Pretty much im more than happy to pay more for a quality product atm 90% of games that are sub based arnt worth there subsciption fee imo.
Like u said if the game had these points (With the exception i wanna see meaningfull solid open world PvP GvG type citie seiges and things like that) Im a PvP kinda guy (Although meaningless mindless ganking and what not isnt to much my thing) If i had a player city and a territory i can defend, raid enemy guild cities and territories and things im all for
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Exactly.
But what else could a game give you? If you have fun, it is worth 15 bucks. If it does not, it is not worth your time at all. A game you only play because it is free is effectivly a waste of your time.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I don´t think any MMO would get a decent population with this pricetag attached.
The code of the pessimistic loner: "We unpopular loners are realists, who follow the three non- popular principles: Not having any (Hope), Not making any (Gaps in your heart); And not giving into (Sweet talk)".
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
These forums never cease to amuse. OP is completely out of his mind if he thinks people will pay 35 bucks a month for ANY game, no matter how good it is.
The nostalgia lords on this site, and in the MMO community in general, need a huge wake up call. The age of Sub-Based MMOGS has passed. No game trying to break into the market is going to have a sub fee and be successful, period. The reason games like WoW and EvE still use sub models, is because they already have established, loyal fanbases, and yet even the mighty WoW is bleeding subs like crazy.
And this may be a bit off topic, but to the same group of people: Stop demanding that developers makes games based on your rose-tinted view of the "Golden Age" of MMOs. Number one, those games probably aren't as good as you thought they were, and even if they were good back then, it doesn't mean those same gameplay mechanics have aged well. Number Two, when your demands DO get catered to, you never put your money where your mouth is. For a perfect example of BOTH, look at what happened to Wildstar, a game made specifically to appeal to old school WoW fans who hate the current state of WoW (A.K.A An alarmingly high number of the frequent posters on this site.)
And this goes double for the EQN haters that think the game should be exactly like the original Everquest. I'm sorry, but isn't the #1 complaint about the state of the MMO industry is that basically every game since 2004 hasn't bothered to break from the EQ/WoW formula? And yet you sit at your computer and demand more of the same?! Gee, I wonder why the MMO genre is at death's door.
?_? I need a drink.
LOL, we need a wake up call? Because we know what we like and want it?
Now I do not begrudge any of you who like the current crop of games out there, have fun .... have lots of fun. But do not expect me to like them because you do. I know what I like and what I am willing to spend time and money on, and they are not it.
I do not demand that developers make games to meet my expectations, but I do post here and elsewhere saying what it is that I want in the hope that games like that are made. Oh and by the way, Wildstar was not it, it was a SciFi game with lots of AOE dancing not interested in either.
I do not hate EQ Not!, what I do say is that as it is not an Everquest game they should call it something else. I do not think it will be released, and if released will fall well short of the Dave Georgeson hype, but if you like what may be released go for it.
Oh and I for one would be more than $35 a month for a game I thought was worth my time and money. IF it was good enough I would pay $100 a month a think it cheap entertainment.
Finally the game I play at the moment is P99, that's right Everquest as it was before it got "improved" to death.
Hey, if you enjoy P1999, more power to you. Quick question for you: do you think the current population of P99 would be enough to keep an MMO financially afloat in this day and age?
You see, the problem with an MMO, is that it doesn't matter if YOU like it, what matters is that LOTS of people like it. You can like whatever kind of MMO you want, but if there aren't enough like minded people, the game won't last. It sucks, but it's the truth.
B2P plus charging for expansions then? Please don't say F2P, only MMORPG that comes to mind is Archeage, and that one still gives me nightmares..... Just curious, not trying to pick a fight.
The code of the pessimistic loner: "We unpopular loners are realists, who follow the three non- popular principles: Not having any (Hope), Not making any (Gaps in your heart); And not giving into (Sweet talk)".
LOL, well the population of P99 is enough to keep P99 going so yes that is pretty compelling evidence that it can.
But to take your question as you intended there are a lot more folks out there that would play a game like P99 that was released with contemporary technology a 64 bit client and modern graphics.
How many? I do not know, but I believe more than enough to support a couple of games that are true to the original form of the genre. Heck I firmly believe that there is an untapped audience of people my age (60+) and older who would play an immersive MMORPG without PvP or raiding.