life isent fair , just like you dont get to the top in a day an ALWAYS theres a person more powerfull that you, learn to get to the top, the game is good, start small learn the game and work your way up ...
The game that EVE Online is 99% based off of, Tradewars 2002, used to have a time limit until it was reset. You'd join a TW2002 server and that particular game would run, say, two weeks and then they'd tally up the amount of systems each corporation owned, how much money they had, how many ships they had destroyed... ect. From there they'd have a winner and then restart the game.
This, of course, isn't possible in EVE. It's designed with much more longevity in mind. Doesn't bother me a bit though because with every passing year my character becomes more and more valuable in case I ever need to sell it for whatever reason. My pure PVP character, for instance, is so highly skilled and has so much ISK that it could fetch around $2,000 if, for some crazy reason, I ever needed to sell it.
A character in EVE is a long term investment, not just another lvl 90 toon with tier "x" raid armor and a fancy sword.
Eve is about what it is, the places, the people, the stories that are in the game, as a pioster put your suggestion of restarting the server to make it easier for new players so bugger us who have worked hard for our name or place in eve have to start again.
Then to back this up with a "how about a second server" again, nope, this is what makes eve , eve. Everyone knows the will know everyone in game (exc the chinese server ofc) Im certain if you look at other mmo they wish today they had done what eve did from start and have a single shard so that everyone plays, everyone shapes the enviroment.
Yes historically some mistakes have been made by CCP, but this again is what has set up the history of the game, remove this and eve ceases to be eve but just a space sim about making isk
I know that everyone has the most awesome idea, and I don't by any means think this is one of those save the game idea (nor do I have the knowledge to say it's in trouble), but I'm curious what people would think of maybe a server restart or retire the old server (declare the winners or something) and start up a new one.
This would allow everyone to start on an even footing again and may allow those that feel they started too late to try again and get a real chance at the game.
What are you guys thoughts on this, does this sound like something that might be a good idea?
The game is on even footing, I can whoop you on my 3month old toon as well as on my 200M sp character.
I have killed MANY high skillpoint characters in pimped ships which were bought on the forums but used by a noob thinking he was in Godmode there........using low skillpoint alts.
If you think skillpoints > else you are very bad at playing EVE.
EVE is not a gear > all treadmill like WoW.
It is about your playing skills, not the skillpoints, BIG difference.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
A) first this was a suggestion, I tried to make this as non threatening as possible, so not sure where the troll idea is coming from. Everyone is new to something and doesn't always have all the info, post count is not a factor. A troll post is saying, your game is dying, it sucks, your game will shut down, your trying to cause a fight. Asking people's opinion on something is a curiousity question, not a a possible troll post.
I was asking peoples opinion on the idea, I don't go on the EvE forum and i've only played Eve a bit but never really got into it. People on Eve forums see this idea the most because they are already there, you see it pretty much every time it's posted, I don't. Most of my post count comes from the time SW:TOR was the big thing on this forum.
C) Sometimes resetting everything after it's become "stagnant" can help to mix things up, apparently Eve not that sort of game. also to note I don't mean stagnant as a bad thing, just more so that it doesn't really seem to change.
D) Also to the one person who quoted my post count, maybe you should look at my posts? You'd see i'm not the trolling type and would figure out that i'm actually someone who tries to learn and does things in the interest of understanding things just like i'm doing here.
I was basically seeing an issue and offering a suggestion, I generally didn't see this suggestion made in MMORPG so i threw it out there. If the Eve community doesn't want it, then it obviously won't work and I got the answer to my question.
Would a second server maybe work or would that result in the same effect as well or would the people just take over that one and rule both or would newer players have a chance?
PS. The reasoning behind why I thought restarting the server would work is because most of the stuff is takes a bit of time like skills and getting the parts/building up the base take time, whereas here it was already built.
You touched EVE in that special place. Shouldnt be a surprise that its defenders are out in force.
You touched EVE in that special place. Shouldnt be a surprise that its defenders are out in force.
EVE is about using your brain and skills, skillpoints only help a bit.
But many players only have experience in WoW so they think every other game out there is about gear only and not using the brain capacity they might have.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I will start by saying I also think it would be a horrible idea. After reading the thread about the social side of eve, and then this one, I have a big smile on my face. This thread should be referenced when talking about the social side of eve. There are people being hostile, others being nice, and rest are just here for the ride.
Originally posted by laokoko "if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
I quite like the idea of a second server start as it would probably be good to have a level playing field of sorts, now that the game has evolved over the years. Many people have second accounts or more and would probably have one on it. It may also bring in new players who don't feel so far behind.
Originally posted by mark2123 I quite like the idea of a second server start as it would probably be good to have a level playing field of sorts, now that the game has evolved over the years. Many people have second accounts or more and would probably have one on it. It may also bring in new players who don't feel so far behind.
Yeah, and how much players do actually want to start on a fresh server where there's no established market, no T2-production, etc, etc... It took the early EvE-players some two years, before the economy was supporting itself without there being anymore NPC buy/sell-orders.
Also, you don't need to have the skillpoints of the old players to be competitive in this game. Two one month old characters in T1-frigates can kill a 10 year old player in a battleship in this game as it is, if they know what they're doing. EvE is not ment for solo-players and that's why you don't compare solo vs. solo in this game.
Look at the chinese server. This is what you'll get if you restart the server, and it's much worse than the current state of the game.
Would a second server maybe work or would that result in the same effect as well or would the people just take over that one and rule both or would newer players have a chance?
A second server is ALSO a bad idea. What makes EVE work, and what makes people care, is that there is ONE world. You cant run over to another server if you fail on the first one. You either have to get your shit together or get out, and that is what makes EVE, well, EVE.
You touched EVE in that special place. Shouldnt be a surprise that its defenders are out in force.
I probably did or at least it's player-base with the way people are reacting, oh well.
As for the other things, if i wanted to catch up to people i'm sure I could. A lot of people are simply thinking this is a post about how I can't catch up and crying for a restart of the servers. this is not about that. So lets get off that train of thought now.
The biggest problem I see is people feel like they can't make it because the game is already so well established. The idea was to set everything back to square 1 and then that would allow people to feel like they are on an even footing, it would destroy the concept that I can't make it because these people are already X amount of years ahead of me, you can see this type of thing when people talk about the skill system in pathfinder online, allowing early access allows people to be more diversified and fight better than other people merely because they had more time.
I felt that restarting the server or providing an even footing would allow people to come in and feel like they have a fighting chance, and thus shake things up. Whereas now they feel like, these people can ride better ships than me, have better access to stuff than me, beat me to jump gates faster than me, outfit their ship better than me, and already have established groups. Also I feel that Eve is more well known now so getting people into it might not be as big of an issue as it was before.
I do wonder, i'm probably wrong, that some of these post are from some of the "well established" people who don't want to lose the progress they have gained so they feel like i'm trying to take it away from them and get threatened. Let me state this, even if I was trying to do that, it's very unlikely that CCP would take the word of some forum poster, so the chance of this happening in game is low. As i stated before i'm merely curious what people thought of the idea and perhaps gain some insight on the matter and how things work in certain games. Let me state that if I wanted to affect change on a bigger degree, I wouldn't be making a forum post on it. I'd be starting a petition and getting people to sign it, so I can send it to CCP.
Lets leave theme park games and or WoW out of this, it has no basis and doesn't need to be referred as i get the feeling it's being used in a negative way to try and deride the thread.
So lets take this thread in a new direction, do you think restarting the server would bring in new players that could help to change the playing field or give it new breath into the game (again remember this isn't about turning into themepark thinking it's themepark, me wanting even foot so I can get ahead or any other such idea up that line)
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
You touched EVE in that special place. Shouldnt be a surprise that its defenders are out in force.
I probably did or at least it's player-base with the way people are reacting, oh well.
...
So lets take this thread in a new direction, do you think restarting the server would bring in new players that could help to change the playing field or give it new breath into the game (again remember this isn't about turning into themepark thinking it's themepark, me wanting even foot so I can get ahead or any other such idea up that line)
So you'll just dismiss history, fact and actual player behavior? Got it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You touched EVE in that special place. Shouldnt be a surprise that its defenders are out in force.
I probably did or at least it's player-base with the way people are reacting, oh well.
...
So lets take this thread in a new direction, do you think restarting the server would bring in new players that could help to change the playing field or give it new breath into the game (again remember this isn't about turning into themepark thinking it's themepark, me wanting even foot so I can get ahead or any other such idea up that line)
So you'll just dismiss history, fact and actual player behavior? Got it.
I know people would just get back to where they were before as they know the game better, but it might allow new players to feel like they have a chance now to get in the ground floor and feel like it's worth attempting. the Biggest risk you run is making the older players mad, which I understand especially when you haven't announced you'd do this.
Maybe it's just not feasible/risk worthy to attempt something of this nature, but would losing a few older players to gain a whole bunch of newer players be a good idea, from what i'm getting from players is it's a bad idea, but it's hard to weed out those that think it's a bad idea because it's a bad idea, or it's a bad idea because they don't want to lose their progress, but its' actually a good idea for the game's pop. Eventually people who remain on top and never really get a real threat will lose interest or simply another game comes along which takes a bit of the high end population and suddenly you have issues. One does have to think especially with all these "sandbox" games coming out that eventually something is going to come along. Eve has done well for itself but part of the reason it's done well is because there haven't been exactly a ton of sandbox games before and nearly all of them haven't been in space. That field is starting to change and thus you need to ask if Eve can stay in the playing field if it does with it's current setup. What moves does it have to take, is it risk worthy to make a few people mad to gain a lot, or is it better to stay with who you have and hope they don't leave for some other game.
The biggest problem with player wipe which i totally agree with is player trust. If you wipe now, how do we know you won't wipe again and thus whats the point of trying to gain things, however this does run counter with how Eve is designed if people say they can get back to where they were and it's player skill over the grind, so a wipe wouldn't hurt them in the long run and you might profit a few new people.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Those who believe they can't catch up are really not EVE material, sure they might try it, but most won't stick around (few who try it actually do) and isn't worth the risk of alienating the long term players like me.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran Those who believe they can't catch up are really not EVE material, sure they might try it, but most won't stick around (few who try it actually do) and isn't worth the risk of alienating the long term players like me.
This pretty much.
Eve does not have unlimited levels, each skill has a max level of 5, and its not even needed. Any player in Eve that gets into a fight thinking that his skill levels will win the fight for them, is going to lose that fight more often than not. It seems to be the biggest hurdle in understanding that people have to overcome to begin to understand Eve, that the OP does not yet understand Eve, is abundantly clear. New players can become competitive very quickly, but they have to overcome their own personal battles first.
I know people would just get back to where they were before as they know the game better, but it might allow new players to feel like they have a chance now to get in the ground floor...
...and then they hit the same walls as before and leave in a month. Look, if EVE was built like Evony or Samurai Siege, it would work. Those games are built around selling that illusion. Why? Because many people don't understand that it changes nothing, and the developers can reap piles of cash from that crowd as they repeat their same behavior over and over. Did you know that that plan works so well, some of those games open 50 or even hundreds of servers a month?
Does power ever shift hands? No. The same people are always at the top but for a few weeks those who don't understand or won't accept where their real blockers are will try in vain to "get a piece of the pie."
MMOs have been around for a good... 18 years or more? Has there been one example of the addition of a new server revitalizing the game?
In Asheron's Call, Verdantine cannibalized Frostfell and Morningthaw.
UO doesn't bother with new servers. Siege Perilous prospered because it was a completely different ruleset.
Most MMOs are clustering/merging servers to revitalize them because adding a new server would just thin the existing, causing more to quit as their player pops dropped.
Runescape, ATITD, PotBS, the upcoming Crowfall... all are built around alleviating the issue you are concerned with, and each of those vastly different approaches works well in their own right. This is because - and this is the part you're probably having most trouble with - those games were built from the ground up to support that design. EVE wasn't.
So, you're probably still a bit confused and asking yourself why I am talking about server resets when you are talking about the addition of a new server. That is because they are all ways to address the issue you expressed:
"allow everyone to start on an even footing again and allow those that
feel they started too late to try again and get a real chance at the game."
EVE isn't designed to support that in the manner that you suggest. EVE is specifically designed to support your business savvy, your charisma, your strategic thinking, your ability to influence others, and any other skillsets you have to carry you to the top. No item or gear in EVE Online is more powerful than your knowledge of the game and your understanding of people.
EVE's counter is already in place, and it doesn't require new servers or server resets to accomplish it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think the coalitions would instantly reform and re-occupy their homeland.
you're not losing to a 10-yo vet because he has Gallents BS 5 and you only have 3. You're losing to him because he's in a well-established coalition.
This pretty much, in the end nothing would change, and the people complaining they never had a chance will still be complaining that they never had a chance.
This thread is really about how much they don't understand Eve Online
That's exactly along the lines of what I was thinking.
If they did a server restart, here's what would happen.
The major coalitions/alliances would simply re-form. They wouldn't miss a beat.
Having played the game for so long, and knowing it like the back of their hand, vets would know - immediately - what to do. They'd know exactly what skills to focus on, what NPCs to work through, etc. Before long, they'd be well on their way to being right back where they were in terms of their place in the game.
Meanwhile, the newer players would still have to learn the game, the ins-and-outs, what skills to train, and in what order of importance. They'd have to first learn the hands-on aspects of playing, of piloting, manufacturing, mining, combat. They'd be making the mistakes and missteps that vets knew to avoid.
In short... new players would still be left in the dust by the vets. Why? Because SP is not a measure of "how good you are at the game". It's just a measure of how rounded your character is. At the end of the day, it still comes back to skill and knowledge of the game. Starting the server over would wipe veterans' achievements. It wouldn't wipe their knowledge or experience with the game. In Eve, knowledge, experience and player skill mean far more than how many SPs you have.
Hell, I have skill level 4 and 5 in some of the key skills for ewar. I've gained the SP for those. Yet, I couldn't fly an ewar right now if my life depended on it. Why? Because while I trained the skills (having once wanted to pursue that), I never actually got any training or experience in it.
Someone from this thread, or any new player, could start the game, and begin training into ewar. Within a few weeks, if that, if they were out getting hands-on experience and learning how to work it all, they'd absolutely kick my ass. Me having more SP, or an older character, would be absolutely meaningless.
SPs are a measure of how much your character knows, not what you, as a player, do. It's "book knowledge". To quote Henry Rollins, "knowledge without mileage is bullshit". You've gotta put the knowledge to use, and turn it into experience.
In other words.. starting a new server, or restarting the existing one, would only leave you in the same position you're in now. And then what? What would be blamed then?
Honestly, and I say this not to be insulting, but to drive the point home: If you're worried about "catching up to" or "being on equal footing" with vets, and believe it places any limit on what you can achieve, or be in Eve... then you don't understand the game.
From a player who has played since 2006 off and on for multiple years i can say i would love a usa split server. I cant stand the 200+ ping but i also cant stand winning a fight but knowing the enemy can replace the ship a thousand times over no problem. Thats where the advantage of new players have over starting a new server, they might lose when they have their skills at 2 but they still lose even if they win.
New corp A moves out into 0.0 and is doing well, but they can only replace their ships 3 or so times before going broke but oh wow the enemy corp of same size but with vets can sustain a losing fight for months no problem. Don't even get me started on big alliances with enough isk to fund multiple titans easily which doesn't even effect their dreadnought supply. So many glitches, bugs, isk farmers and devs handing out blueprints to favorite alliances is what secured some of this wealth/power of these alliances to begin with. Having enough players to blob is one thing but having the isk powerhouse is what really wins the fights and with a new server a large alliance from us could be hit and ran to death in 0.0 by smaller corps no problem until they can start funding blobs again which would be a crazy loss if they lost the fight in a new server.
What i am most worried about a new server is the crazy beginning economy, i hears stories of when eve first launched ammo was super expensive so people would load up lasers on everything. But it would iron itself out im sure of it, especially if the devs had npcs take the load off of the starting economy for a month or so with somewhat static low prices.
I am somewhat of a vet but the reason for me not playing eve now is a time constraint, i doubt if they did restart it i would even try it but i would like to see it done anyway for all the people that want it even though i would miss the russian players. Everyone wants to complain about a new server but china got their own server no problem and the starting economy went rather well there from what i heard.
From a player who has played since 2006 off and on for multiple years i can say i would love a usa split server. I cant stand the 200+ ping but i also cant stand winning a fight but knowing the enemy can replace the ship a thousand times over no problem. Thats where the advantage of new players have over starting a new server, they might lose when they have their skills at 2 but they still lose even if they win.
New corp A moves out into 0.0 and is doing well, but they can only replace their ships 3 or so times before going broke but oh wow the enemy corp of same size but with vets can sustain a losing fight for months no problem. Don't even get me started on big alliances with enough isk to fund multiple titans easily which doesn't even effect their dreadnought supply. So many glitches, bugs, isk farmers and devs handing out blueprints to favorite alliances is what secured some of this wealth/power of these alliances to begin with. Having enough players to blob is one thing but having the isk powerhouse is what really wins the fights and with a new server a large alliance from us could be hit and ran to death in 0.0 by smaller corps no problem until they can start funding blobs again which would be a crazy loss if they lost the fight in a new server.
What i am most worried about a new server is the crazy beginning economy, i hears stories of when eve first launched ammo was super expensive so people would load up lasers on everything. But it would iron itself out im sure of it, especially if the devs had npcs take the load off of the starting economy for a month or so with somewhat static low prices.
I am somewhat of a vet but the reason for me not playing eve now is a time constraint, i doubt if they did restart it i would even try it but i would like to see it done anyway for all the people that want it even though i would miss the russian players. Everyone wants to complain about a new server but china got their own server no problem and the starting economy went rather well there from what i heard.
Joined in 2010, made first post in 2015, you sir are quite the lurker.
Originally posted by laokoko "if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
I know that everyone has the most awesome idea, and I don't by any means think this is one of those save the game idea (nor do I have the knowledge to say it's in trouble), but I'm curious what people would think of maybe a server restart or retire the old server (declare the winners or something) and start up a new one.
This would allow everyone to start on an even footing again and may allow those that feel they started too late to try again and get a real chance at the game.
What are you guys thoughts on this, does this sound like something that might be a good idea?
The only idea about MMORPG's that I have seen that is worse than this was Sony Online Entertainments(now known as Daybreak Games) New Game Enhancement Patch(NGE) for the MMORPG Star Wars Galaxies which caused more than 200,000 players to quit the game. This one patch can be called a true game killer as SWG never truly recovered from it.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
i wish eve online has more reasonable skill system. restart will not solve that. i think game needs level system like other rpg's. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. for example; Destroyers req. can be Level 10. and there must be skill tree's and trait options that you can easly make your own build, tweak your ship. unlock by level or isk or racial missions etc. but not the fracing endless time grind.
vets. will say we're ok, dont change it, skills dont matter bla bla. but it matters for new comers. i dont wanna start an mmo that vets has advantage that newcomers never able to catch up.
i wish eve online has more reasonable skill system. restart will not solve that. i think game needs level system like other rpg's. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. for example; Destroyers req. can be Level 10. and there must be skill tree's and trait options that you can easly make your own build, tweak your ship. unlock by level or isk or racial missions etc. but not the fracing endless time grind.
vets. will say we're ok, dont change it, skills dont matter bla bla. but it matters for new comers. i dont wanna start an mmo that vets has advantage that newcomers never able to catch up.
He did not read any of the previous posts did he lol ?
While I don't know how many people are like myself, I've always avoided Eve specifically due to the time locked progression. I've disliked it in every game its existed in, including Age of Wushu and Pathfinder Online. Maybe I'm the only one, but I'd try Eve right now on a new server, especially if they dropped the time based xp thing.
I feel the same way kind of, the time locked progression is a little wishy-washey to me also. I just wish there was a little more active way of training skills. Like for example, you are training rocket 2 passively, but if you went out and shot things with your rockets it would help progress your rocket skills, if only just a little bit, a very very small little bit, possibly knock a second off your training for every 10x you used the skill. Just anything to make the passive time locked training feel a little bit more active besides logging in once a day to setup your training queue. Considering the amount of time it takes to train some skills, I don't see having just a little bit of a active way to progress your skills being a super gamebreaking thing.
Don't get me wrong, I love Eve for what it is. It's just every time I try to get back into Eve the same thing happens. I play the game for a couple weeks, and then just end up logging in to load up my skill training queue, then log out. After my month is up, I usually no longer even feel the want to log in and load up my training queue, and that is where my sub usually ends.
Tldr; I wish there was a way to actively gain skills in Eve, if only by a small amount.
Comments
The game that EVE Online is 99% based off of, Tradewars 2002, used to have a time limit until it was reset. You'd join a TW2002 server and that particular game would run, say, two weeks and then they'd tally up the amount of systems each corporation owned, how much money they had, how many ships they had destroyed... ect. From there they'd have a winner and then restart the game.
This, of course, isn't possible in EVE. It's designed with much more longevity in mind. Doesn't bother me a bit though because with every passing year my character becomes more and more valuable in case I ever need to sell it for whatever reason. My pure PVP character, for instance, is so highly skilled and has so much ISK that it could fetch around $2,000 if, for some crazy reason, I ever needed to sell it.
A character in EVE is a long term investment, not just another lvl 90 toon with tier "x" raid armor and a fancy sword.
Sorry but this is a god aweful idea,
Eve is about what it is, the places, the people, the stories that are in the game, as a pioster put your suggestion of restarting the server to make it easier for new players so bugger us who have worked hard for our name or place in eve have to start again.
Then to back this up with a "how about a second server" again, nope, this is what makes eve , eve. Everyone knows the will know everyone in game (exc the chinese server ofc) Im certain if you look at other mmo they wish today they had done what eve did from start and have a single shard so that everyone plays, everyone shapes the enviroment.
Yes historically some mistakes have been made by CCP, but this again is what has set up the history of the game, remove this and eve ceases to be eve but just a space sim about making isk
This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game
where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy
The game is on even footing, I can whoop you on my 3month old toon as well as on my 200M sp character.
I have killed MANY high skillpoint characters in pimped ships which were bought on the forums but used by a noob thinking he was in Godmode there........using low skillpoint alts.
If you think skillpoints > else you are very bad at playing EVE.
EVE is not a gear > all treadmill like WoW.
It is about your playing skills, not the skillpoints, BIG difference.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
You touched EVE in that special place. Shouldnt be a surprise that its defenders are out in force.
EVE is about using your brain and skills, skillpoints only help a bit.
But many players only have experience in WoW so they think every other game out there is about gear only and not using the brain capacity they might have.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by laokoko
"if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
Yeah, and how much players do actually want to start on a fresh server where there's no established market, no T2-production, etc, etc...
It took the early EvE-players some two years, before the economy was supporting itself without there being anymore NPC buy/sell-orders.
Also, you don't need to have the skillpoints of the old players to be competitive in this game. Two one month old characters in T1-frigates can kill a 10 year old player in a battleship in this game as it is, if they know what they're doing.
EvE is not ment for solo-players and that's why you don't compare solo vs. solo in this game.
Look at the chinese server. This is what you'll get if you restart the server, and it's much worse than the current state of the game.
A second server is ALSO a bad idea. What makes EVE work, and what makes people care, is that there is ONE world. You cant run over to another server if you fail on the first one. You either have to get your shit together or get out, and that is what makes EVE, well, EVE.
To be fair, the situation on the chinese server is probably as much culturally related as it is a result of a new server.
EVE is unique because it is a single community.
Dividing that would kill it.
This-is-not-a-themepark-mmo-where-your-efforts-are-meaningless.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I probably did or at least it's player-base with the way people are reacting, oh well.
As for the other things, if i wanted to catch up to people i'm sure I could. A lot of people are simply thinking this is a post about how I can't catch up and crying for a restart of the servers. this is not about that. So lets get off that train of thought now.
The biggest problem I see is people feel like they can't make it because the game is already so well established. The idea was to set everything back to square 1 and then that would allow people to feel like they are on an even footing, it would destroy the concept that I can't make it because these people are already X amount of years ahead of me, you can see this type of thing when people talk about the skill system in pathfinder online, allowing early access allows people to be more diversified and fight better than other people merely because they had more time.
I felt that restarting the server or providing an even footing would allow people to come in and feel like they have a fighting chance, and thus shake things up. Whereas now they feel like, these people can ride better ships than me, have better access to stuff than me, beat me to jump gates faster than me, outfit their ship better than me, and already have established groups. Also I feel that Eve is more well known now so getting people into it might not be as big of an issue as it was before.
I do wonder, i'm probably wrong, that some of these post are from some of the "well established" people who don't want to lose the progress they have gained so they feel like i'm trying to take it away from them and get threatened. Let me state this, even if I was trying to do that, it's very unlikely that CCP would take the word of some forum poster, so the chance of this happening in game is low. As i stated before i'm merely curious what people thought of the idea and perhaps gain some insight on the matter and how things work in certain games. Let me state that if I wanted to affect change on a bigger degree, I wouldn't be making a forum post on it. I'd be starting a petition and getting people to sign it, so I can send it to CCP.
Lets leave theme park games and or WoW out of this, it has no basis and doesn't need to be referred as i get the feeling it's being used in a negative way to try and deride the thread.
So lets take this thread in a new direction, do you think restarting the server would bring in new players that could help to change the playing field or give it new breath into the game (again remember this isn't about turning into themepark thinking it's themepark, me wanting even foot so I can get ahead or any other such idea up that line)
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
So you'll just dismiss history, fact and actual player behavior? Got it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I know people would just get back to where they were before as they know the game better, but it might allow new players to feel like they have a chance now to get in the ground floor and feel like it's worth attempting. the Biggest risk you run is making the older players mad, which I understand especially when you haven't announced you'd do this.
Maybe it's just not feasible/risk worthy to attempt something of this nature, but would losing a few older players to gain a whole bunch of newer players be a good idea, from what i'm getting from players is it's a bad idea, but it's hard to weed out those that think it's a bad idea because it's a bad idea, or it's a bad idea because they don't want to lose their progress, but its' actually a good idea for the game's pop. Eventually people who remain on top and never really get a real threat will lose interest or simply another game comes along which takes a bit of the high end population and suddenly you have issues. One does have to think especially with all these "sandbox" games coming out that eventually something is going to come along. Eve has done well for itself but part of the reason it's done well is because there haven't been exactly a ton of sandbox games before and nearly all of them haven't been in space. That field is starting to change and thus you need to ask if Eve can stay in the playing field if it does with it's current setup. What moves does it have to take, is it risk worthy to make a few people mad to gain a lot, or is it better to stay with who you have and hope they don't leave for some other game.
The biggest problem with player wipe which i totally agree with is player trust. If you wipe now, how do we know you won't wipe again and thus whats the point of trying to gain things, however this does run counter with how Eve is designed if people say they can get back to where they were and it's player skill over the grind, so a wipe wouldn't hurt them in the long run and you might profit a few new people.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This pretty much.
Eve does not have unlimited levels, each skill has a max level of 5, and its not even needed. Any player in Eve that gets into a fight thinking that his skill levels will win the fight for them, is going to lose that fight more often than not. It seems to be the biggest hurdle in understanding that people have to overcome to begin to understand Eve, that the OP does not yet understand Eve, is abundantly clear. New players can become competitive very quickly, but they have to overcome their own personal battles first.
...and then they hit the same walls as before and leave in a month. Look, if EVE was built like Evony or Samurai Siege, it would work. Those games are built around selling that illusion. Why? Because many people don't understand that it changes nothing, and the developers can reap piles of cash from that crowd as they repeat their same behavior over and over. Did you know that that plan works so well, some of those games open 50 or even hundreds of servers a month?
Does power ever shift hands? No. The same people are always at the top but for a few weeks those who don't understand or won't accept where their real blockers are will try in vain to "get a piece of the pie."
MMOs have been around for a good... 18 years or more? Has there been one example of the addition of a new server revitalizing the game?
In Asheron's Call, Verdantine cannibalized Frostfell and Morningthaw.
UO doesn't bother with new servers. Siege Perilous prospered because it was a completely different ruleset.
Most MMOs are clustering/merging servers to revitalize them because adding a new server would just thin the existing, causing more to quit as their player pops dropped.
Runescape, ATITD, PotBS, the upcoming Crowfall... all are built around alleviating the issue you are concerned with, and each of those vastly different approaches works well in their own right. This is because - and this is the part you're probably having most trouble with - those games were built from the ground up to support that design. EVE wasn't.
So, you're probably still a bit confused and asking yourself why I am talking about server resets when you are talking about the addition of a new server. That is because they are all ways to address the issue you expressed:
"allow everyone to start on an even footing again and allow those that
feel they started too late to try again and get a real chance at the game."
EVE isn't designed to support that in the manner that you suggest. EVE is specifically designed to support your business savvy, your charisma, your strategic thinking, your ability to influence others, and any other skillsets you have to carry you to the top. No item or gear in EVE Online is more powerful than your knowledge of the game and your understanding of people.
EVE's counter is already in place, and it doesn't require new servers or server resets to accomplish it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
That's exactly along the lines of what I was thinking.
If they did a server restart, here's what would happen.
The major coalitions/alliances would simply re-form. They wouldn't miss a beat.
Having played the game for so long, and knowing it like the back of their hand, vets would know - immediately - what to do. They'd know exactly what skills to focus on, what NPCs to work through, etc. Before long, they'd be well on their way to being right back where they were in terms of their place in the game.
Meanwhile, the newer players would still have to learn the game, the ins-and-outs, what skills to train, and in what order of importance. They'd have to first learn the hands-on aspects of playing, of piloting, manufacturing, mining, combat. They'd be making the mistakes and missteps that vets knew to avoid.
In short... new players would still be left in the dust by the vets. Why? Because SP is not a measure of "how good you are at the game". It's just a measure of how rounded your character is. At the end of the day, it still comes back to skill and knowledge of the game. Starting the server over would wipe veterans' achievements. It wouldn't wipe their knowledge or experience with the game. In Eve, knowledge, experience and player skill mean far more than how many SPs you have.
Hell, I have skill level 4 and 5 in some of the key skills for ewar. I've gained the SP for those. Yet, I couldn't fly an ewar right now if my life depended on it. Why? Because while I trained the skills (having once wanted to pursue that), I never actually got any training or experience in it.
Someone from this thread, or any new player, could start the game, and begin training into ewar. Within a few weeks, if that, if they were out getting hands-on experience and learning how to work it all, they'd absolutely kick my ass. Me having more SP, or an older character, would be absolutely meaningless.
SPs are a measure of how much your character knows, not what you, as a player, do. It's "book knowledge". To quote Henry Rollins, "knowledge without mileage is bullshit". You've gotta put the knowledge to use, and turn it into experience.
In other words.. starting a new server, or restarting the existing one, would only leave you in the same position you're in now. And then what? What would be blamed then?
Honestly, and I say this not to be insulting, but to drive the point home: If you're worried about "catching up to" or "being on equal footing" with vets, and believe it places any limit on what you can achieve, or be in Eve... then you don't understand the game.
From a player who has played since 2006 off and on for multiple years i can say i would love a usa split server. I cant stand the 200+ ping but i also cant stand winning a fight but knowing the enemy can replace the ship a thousand times over no problem. Thats where the advantage of new players have over starting a new server, they might lose when they have their skills at 2 but they still lose even if they win.
New corp A moves out into 0.0 and is doing well, but they can only replace their ships 3 or so times before going broke but oh wow the enemy corp of same size but with vets can sustain a losing fight for months no problem. Don't even get me started on big alliances with enough isk to fund multiple titans easily which doesn't even effect their dreadnought supply. So many glitches, bugs, isk farmers and devs handing out blueprints to favorite alliances is what secured some of this wealth/power of these alliances to begin with. Having enough players to blob is one thing but having the isk powerhouse is what really wins the fights and with a new server a large alliance from us could be hit and ran to death in 0.0 by smaller corps no problem until they can start funding blobs again which would be a crazy loss if they lost the fight in a new server.
What i am most worried about a new server is the crazy beginning economy, i hears stories of when eve first launched ammo was super expensive so people would load up lasers on everything. But it would iron itself out im sure of it, especially if the devs had npcs take the load off of the starting economy for a month or so with somewhat static low prices.
I am somewhat of a vet but the reason for me not playing eve now is a time constraint, i doubt if they did restart it i would even try it but i would like to see it done anyway for all the people that want it even though i would miss the russian players. Everyone wants to complain about a new server but china got their own server no problem and the starting economy went rather well there from what i heard.
Joined in 2010, made first post in 2015, you sir are quite the lurker.
Originally posted by laokoko
"if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
The only idea about MMORPG's that I have seen that is worse than this was Sony Online Entertainments(now known as Daybreak Games) New Game Enhancement Patch(NGE) for the MMORPG Star Wars Galaxies which caused more than 200,000 players to quit the game. This one patch can be called a true game killer as SWG never truly recovered from it.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
i wish eve online has more reasonable skill system. restart will not solve that. i think game needs level system like other rpg's. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. for example; Destroyers req. can be Level 10. and there must be skill tree's and trait options that you can easly make your own build, tweak your ship. unlock by level or isk or racial missions etc. but not the fracing endless time grind.
vets. will say we're ok, dont change it, skills dont matter bla bla. but it matters for new comers. i dont wanna start an mmo that vets has advantage that newcomers never able to catch up.
He did not read any of the previous posts did he lol ?
I feel the same way kind of, the time locked progression is a little wishy-washey to me also. I just wish there was a little more active way of training skills. Like for example, you are training rocket 2 passively, but if you went out and shot things with your rockets it would help progress your rocket skills, if only just a little bit, a very very small little bit, possibly knock a second off your training for every 10x you used the skill. Just anything to make the passive time locked training feel a little bit more active besides logging in once a day to setup your training queue. Considering the amount of time it takes to train some skills, I don't see having just a little bit of a active way to progress your skills being a super gamebreaking thing.
Don't get me wrong, I love Eve for what it is. It's just every time I try to get back into Eve the same thing happens. I play the game for a couple weeks, and then just end up logging in to load up my skill training queue, then log out. After my month is up, I usually no longer even feel the want to log in and load up my training queue, and that is where my sub usually ends.
Tldr; I wish there was a way to actively gain skills in Eve, if only by a small amount.