New players and the expansion. Massive barrier to entry. You have been warned.

Jessix

Originally posted by Bitrip
Holy cow! You really need i90 gear for the expansion? That was one of the things that turned me off to the game in the end. I did not enjoy looking for a competent group for that stuff.

You dont need a competent group to get to ilvl 90. it can be achieved by clearing easy dungeons and buying gear with Tomes of Soldiery.

Unless you are so bad at the game that you can't properly clear a normal dungeon without a "competent" group.

Froggie85

Originally posted by Bitrip
Holy cow! You really need i90 gear for the expansion? That was one of the things that turned me off to the game in the end. I did not enjoy looking for a competent group for that stuff.

lmao all my characters are ilvl 130 and im a super casual. thats how easy it is lmao

Jessix

If i was new or took a break and wanted to know how to catch up and I really liked the game, then I would read this

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/32ng42/the_grand_unified_im_level_50_what_should_i_do/

I know self help can be tough for some people who want everything handed to them. Of course if it was help people really wanted, then they wouldn't be posting "woe is me" topics on here.

Nephaerius

I literally just started playing the game having never played before. I've played casually for 6 weeks and already completed the 2.0 storyline on my scholar and lvld up WHM to 34 and Thaumaturge to 26 for cross class skills. May not be totally done everything through 2.55 by the time the expansion launches but it's really not as insurmountable as you make it seem in the OP. 

LacedOpium

 

It's an expansion to the current game/story, not a sequel.  It makes all the sense in the world that there be a barrier to entry commensurate with the story.   Do you also expect to skip skill levels in FPS and MOBA games and be able to carry the highest titles and most lucrative weapons without having to put in the work?  If not, why do you expect such luxuries in your MMORPGs?  This is gamer entitlement at its finest and it only seems to surface with MMORPGs.  Stop trying to change these MMORPGs into your game style preference and play the game as it was designed to be played. 
 

Palinrir

Also something to note, when you're lvl 50 and running the lvl 50 dungeons, a majority of people are over-geared for all the content. This makes running almost all the dungeons until maybe 2.5 really easy and fast (unless it's Titian, as it seems everyone always has issues with Titan).

Dr_Shivinski

Can't satisfy everyone it seems. But seriously making a post like this is not helpful. A complete over exaggeration of a supposed "barrier to entry". 

- i90 is a stupidly easy ilevel to get to

- Being required to do the story quests in a story focused game is not really that outlandish

- What makes anyone think they will come into an MMORPG at the beginning of an expansion and have immediate access to said expansion?

- You will more than likely get exp while doing the story quests at 50 after the xpac drops.

- "Waah"

EDIT: I'm actually wondering what OPs source is on the ilevel requirement. The story completion makes sense, but I just realized he never sourced any of his claims.

Strayfe

Good for Square-Enix finally doing something right.

I'd hate to see how OP would have reacted to the Chains of Promathia expansion in FFXI.  When that released, it had some of the most difficult group-required content you will ever see in an MMO, and there was a LOT of it that you had to go through to get to Al'Taieu, which was the endgame expansion area.  I was in an endgame Linkshell at the time, and it took my skilled static group of fully geared endgame players over a month to clear the story content leading up to Al'Taieu, and probably 50-100 wipes, losing experience on every single wipe.

And you know what?  Chains of Promathia is the gold standard for me for expansions.  I was frustrated as hell during all of that, but I made so many new friends, 2 of which I still have today. 

Be thankful that FF14 isn't taking the Blizzard route by making all prior content completely and totally irrelevant with the release of every new expansion.  That remains my biggest pet peeve with World of Warcraft.

fivoroth

Originally posted by Christophiza

I like the idea of the game forcing you to understand what has been happening before stepping into the expansion. On paper it's great but unfortunately not many people will want to invest that much time before they get to try something shiny and new.

We gamers love our shinies.

Technically to those new players all this "forced" content is "new". They have never experienced it so what's so different about the expansion content compared to the content currently available which is still "new" to newcomers.

When people start a new movie trilogy or a book, do they start in the middle skipping half of the story? I didn't think so.

Jessix

Ya, if you look at the OP's profile, he has galleries of ffxiv screenshots, so he clearly likes the game, but me thinks he spent a bit too much time raising his chocobo and gardening his plants.

 

Now that the expansion is coming out hes like"Eh, ill check out the expansion, as soon as my crops are harvestable, la dee dah, wait...WHAT? I need to play the game like it supposed to? UGHH, im gonna go to mmorpg.com and post why I feel entitled.

sagewisdom

Why do you people want to go straight into the expansion? What's so bad about the old game that you don't want to play it there? Do you think the game is going to transform into a completely new game with new gameplay and character models that can only be found there?

Even moreso in a story centric game? Why do you even want to skip the story? Why should Square throw out their old content for the expansion anyway? They are expanding the game, not creating a new one.

Even better, for OP, you have been playing the game awhile and knew they were adding more to the main story. What made you think the new story quests didn't have to be done when half the game is locked behind them when levelling?

And, you would have to suck not be able to get i90 gear, I did it and I'm a complete noob.

Tsumoro

Originally posted by Foomerang

OP you really need to check your facts on this, your post is so misleading and ill-informed that part of me wonders if you and I play the same game. 

I was caught off guard by this. Been out of town for a while and hadn't been reading up on the requirements to play in the upcoming Heavensward expansion.

Define a while, like a weekend. Or since you hit 50?

I was under the false assumption that you only needed to be level 50 and complete the 2.0 main scenario questline. Wrong.

Why do you word this as if there is some sort of fault to be had? You made a groundless assumption, was wrong in yoru estimates. Enough said. But you articulate this as if your assumption had a merit behind it and because your assumptions were not met, there is now an issue?

In order to have access to the new expansion, you must have a level 50, completed all of the main storyline quests up to 2.55 and also have an average gear rating of at least ilvl 90.

Correct! Okay, so far so good. 

As soon as I finished the main story at 2.0, i dropped combat and never looked back. I have had a great time doing all of the non combat activities and being part of a nice community.

Okay, so you're telling us you didn't enjoy the combat as much. Okay I get it, not everyone will like it I guess. That's a fair preference to have. I mean... it'll be rough because combat does take up a large majority of the game for you. Thankful if anything that you identify that there is plenty to do in the game other than combat... but if you've not enjoyed it, then getting to 50 would of been rough on you. 

I pre ordered the new expansion looking forward to new abilities for botanist and the mastery system, as well as housing additions and airship crafting.

Okay, all of which are available to you. 

But to my dismay, in order to even step foot in the new area, I must go back to my combat class and finish off a whopping 120 more quests. These quests so far have been mindless fetch/kill quests and also having to rerun old dungeons with most of my abilities missing (since it scales you back).

Okay I am getting to the REAL issue here, you are someone that likes the robust crafting system and that is what you wish to enjoy. That is a fair preference also. However you are playing an RPG in which has a narrative to it. You play a character that has a greater destiny, to unite and save the world, you know... pretty much the theme to every Final Fantasy game out there. I get it that all you want to do is craft, but you are part of a world and in order to progress in it, requires some concious effort on your part. To get to the expansion area the story is set up to reason and understanding as to why adventurers are invited to its reclusive nation. They, are not at this time hiring botanists and miners, I imagine, due to the war they are going through a recession making it very difficult for any tradesman to hold a living down. 

You are in error here, let me explain why. Your issue is with the combat nature of the game. You just wish to craft. Well, buying the expansion allows you to level your job past 50. Meaning you can continue to level your job and most likely (I use this as  basis as to how the logs work presently) have access to the new recipes. 

the only difference is, you will need to buy a lot of the stuff if you don't enter the new area, which, if going by your statement, is what you are doing anyway as many of the end game crafting items do require combat of some kind. Especially if you are getting leather or animal hides or whatever. 

As a narrative sense, you understand that the new zone is not open to the public, but only to the warriors of light, a favour or boon bestowed upon them for their assistance in the current war efforts. Final Fantasy 14 is a very roleplay focused game, with a strong narrative set to make sense of it all. 

If you want to make higher items, you either get the items yourself, by earning an invite into their kingdom or you act as a merchant and buy in order to progress. Just because you do not wish to partake, does not make it a bad design, crafting is a wonderful thing in FF14, its perhaps the most enjoyable system I have used in an MMO... BUT its not all what the game is about. The game is about following the story, hence why there is such a heavy push for you to do it. 

I am trudging through it, shaking my head at this poorly implemented game decision. Every MMO expansion I have experienced has had little to no barrier to entry. A simple level requirement and a couple introductory quests to the new areas at most.

Its not a poor deisgn just because you don't like it. Am I right to say your a poor player because you don't like the combay? No, its preference, in addition the design to the game has never changes. Story has always meant progression. It was true at 2.0 and true at 2.55. 

Also, you are not playing other MMO's your playing this one. Why do they need to follow suit? Also, understand this, that yes in other games you can reach the required level to go to the next zone, but think of it this way level 50 is the cap, consider the story the extra levels needed to enter. 

Let's say for arguement sake that 2.0 had you finish at level 40 and the way to reach 50 was by doing the new story content. Its the same thing. Trouble is, you don't like it. That's fine. But it IS this game. You do not have to play if you so wish, the game will not conform to your ideals, especially considering its current formula has been met with so much success. So, who is really bad at design here? The game, that practically turned around a trainwreck of 1.0 into a massive commercial success, or you, an individual with their own preference but with no interaction and involvement in the game developement community?

If you are interested in the expansion but have never played before, here is what you are required to do before being allowed access:

View be warned - This is all lies and misinformation, the OP is not happy he has to go through combat in an MMO to get to the expansion and thus he is skewing information to suit his arguement.  No offence OP, but that is what you are doing. 

Your journey from 1-50 will require about 220 quests to be done. So no, you can't just grind fates or dungeons to 50 and be finished. A lot of these quests are either forced solo or forced group. Your queue times will be astronomical once the expansion hits because everyone else will be in the new zones with little to no incentive to daily roulette the old stuff.

Not true, baseless assumption. Presently queue times for DPS are what you would expect for a game that uses a trinity system. It is true here as it is for WoW. Queue times for tanks and healers, you hit that button and your in. True here as it is for WoW. 

The OP uses the expansion as a basis to say that the earlier content will be abandoned. If this was true then those at level 50 would not partake in earlier dungeons or duties and new comers would be getting screwed. To put it in perspective, I make alts. Recently leveled up a Ninja (wanted to make a new race) and I had a very comfortable time through the content. This is true now, and will be once expansion hits. If for some STRANGE reason this does not pan to be accurate, the developement team will address and provide incentive. Its what they did before, they'll do it again. Also the content updates are frequent so anything requiring addressing will not take long. 

This is evident from the past experience of how they have approached issues in the game. OP only assumes. 

After you hit 50 and do the 200 or so quests needed along the way, you will still have another 120 or so quest to complete AFTER hitting level cap. A fresh 50 is in ilvl 55 gear. SO even if you power through the 120+ quests after hitting level cap, you must thein decide to drop 3-5 million gil on gear to reach ilvl 90 or grind dungeons for another week or so and get enough tokens to reach ilvl 90.

Again, not true. Seriously OP stop pulling numbers out of your ass. I have 2 realms I play on, US and EU because I work shifts and sometimes its nice to flit between timezones to ensure I play peak. Yes you are ilvl 55 when you hit 50. I've never had a break in the game, a friend of mine, works as a signaller and had to go through some heavy duty training, this was at 2.1. He came back only a month ago and spent 450k getting the ilvl 90 so he could get up to 2.55.

Where are you pulling 3-5 million from. That is insane! I have even gone to check the market now, just so I can see. On the US I am playing 600k to gear to 90.  In the EU I am paying just under 500k. 

I imagine maybe 3-5 million at outset of ilvl90 but not now, that's not how the economy works. The more of an item available, the lower the cost as it saturates the market. Your a crafter! Do you not sell your items??

I've never seen or heard of anything remotely close to this in an mmo before. They might as well put a sign on the door that says "newcomers not welcome"

Not true, stop whinging because you don't like something. I have just said, above I have not long recently leveled up a ninja from scratch without incident. Heck I was in the game in Uldah (as I made a pgl to begin with) and whilst I wasi n the chocobo carriage cutscene I had already been invited to a FC devoted to leveling up. 

Typically the point of an expansion is to attract more players while keeping your current playerbase happy. Current players like myself are extremely disheartened, and new players? They are doa with this huge wall in front of them.

Players like yourself are being over dramatic and need to continue playing the game as they have always done. You don't have to worry about newcomers, thats SE job and it should in no way impact on the quality of sleep you get at the end of your day. Newcomers are welcome, there are anabundant of things for you to do, FC there that WANT you immediately upon entry and a vast and engrossing story for you to enjoy. 

If any warning from OP is to be taken to heart is this - - - If you are intending to play solely for crafting, then expect to progress your characters story. 

I love this game. But this has got to be one of the worst ideas I've seen in an mmorpg.

Really, then why is it successful? What vast of MMORPG experience are you drawing from? I love TSW for example, fantastic game, great narrative, nice diversity to it. But, its not doing to well. WoW remains the king of MMO's however, getting a little stale but has a healthy fan base. ESO and Wildstar, great ideas, heck both of them achieve the very things you personal want in a game, crafting fromt he get go but, both are now not in too good a shape. Where are you drawing this basis from??

And of course , SE will gladly take your money for the expansion regardless. There is no mention of the requirements when you go to purchase.

There is! The requirements clearly are stated. See, your having a paddy about this, but its nothing but prefernece and opinion. With no basis behind it what-so-ever.

So let me do your work for you...

On the PREORDER page of Heavensward -

 

* In order to enjoy the benefits of early access to Heavensward content, you need to be playing FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn and have made sufficient progress in the main scenario. As such, early access will not be available to new players who pre-order the FINAL FANTASY XIV Online all-in-one bundle and have yet to begin their adventures.

bad form.

From you, yes. 

danwest58

Hey OP.  Quit your bitching. 

 

To the rest of you.  Massive Barrier is the OP Just being a Drama Queen.  My Wife and I just started the storyline quest from 2.1 on this past weekend.  After 3 maybe 4 hours  with real life distractions going on as well; we are done with 2.3 and onto 2.4 content.  Thats with the trials and all that we had to do.  We also have full Pug groups who never did any of the trials and guess what all 3 were cleared with little to no hardship. 

So what I expect is this for a new player.  They reach 50 and start doing ALL 2.0 to 2.55 storyline quest to take about 6 to 10 hours to complete.  All the while gaining EXP and leveling.  

 

What is the OPs problem?  He just wants something to complain about.  

Foomerang

You know this is by far the best mmorpg I've played since swg, right? Yes this is a criticism of a game I love oh my gawd lol

Some of you take this way to personally like I'm kicking your puppy. Yes this is the largest barrier to entry I have experience in an mmo. There are many story driven MMOs that get you caught up to the current chapter in the span of a few quests, not hundreds.

It's OK to like a game without worshipping every detail. Real mature on some of you to come straight at me over a game.

Anyway, still playing the game. Still going to trudge through these mundane quests so I can enjoy the new awesome expansion. Still pointing out this is not a good decision on the devs part but it is what it is.

Tyggs

Originally posted by Foomerang

You know this is by far the best mmorpg I've played since swg, right? Yes this is a criticism of a game I love oh my gawd lol

Some of you take this way to personally like I'm kicking your puppy. Yes this is the largest barrier to entry I have experience in an mmo. There are many story driven MMOs that get you caught up to the current chapter in the span of a few quests, not hundreds.

It's OK to like a game without worshipping every detail. Real mature on some of you to come straight at me over a game.

Anyway, still playing the game. Still going to trudge through these mundane quests so I can enjoy the new awesome expansion. Still pointing out this is not a good decision on the devs part but it is what it is.

 Final Fantasy has always been story based. In a story, you usually read through 1 chapter to get through the next. That is how this game is built, not just read a summary and go to chapter 31.

XImpalerX

Originally posted by Foomerang

You know this is by far the best mmorpg I've played since swg, right? Yes this is a criticism of a game I love oh my gawd lol

Some of you take this way to personally like I'm kicking your puppy. Yes this is the largest barrier to entry I have experience in an mmo. There are many story driven MMOs that get you caught up to the current chapter in the span of a few quests, not hundreds.

It's OK to like a game without worshipping every detail. Real mature on some of you to come straight at me over a game.

Anyway, still playing the game. Still going to trudge through these mundane quests so I can enjoy the new awesome expansion. Still pointing out this is not a good decision on the devs part but it is what it is.

Brick Wall

/thread

Boneserino

Foom!?

 

Suck it up Buttercup!

 

Quite surprised that you would make a post like this.

 

An expansion having requirements to play?  Shocking!   Actually no not really.   We all have something to bitch about in our games.   99% of the time it is irrelevant to the majority of gamers.  This certainly qualifies.

 

 

sagewisdom

Originally posted by Foomerang

You know this is by far the best mmorpg I've played since swg, right? Yes this is a criticism of a game I love oh my gawd lol

Some of you take this way to personally like I'm kicking your puppy. Yes this is the largest barrier to entry I have experience in an mmo. There are many story driven MMOs that get you caught up to the current chapter in the span of a few quests, not hundreds.

It's OK to like a game without worshipping every detail. Real mature on some of you to come straight at me over a game.

Anyway, still playing the game. Still going to trudge through these mundane quests so I can enjoy the new awesome expansion. Still pointing out this is not a good decision on the devs part but it is what it is.

FFXIV tries to tell an actual story though. Although to be fair, 2.1's story quests are by the worst of the patches. The patch story really hits its stride in 2.2. If you are still in 2.1 (Move to Revenant's Toll arc) than just know the story gets better from there.

Tymoris

How come the content before the expansion won't become obsolete?

Won't the people that can do the new content have little to no reason to bother with it?

And the people that haven't done it yet would just find it harder what with less people bothering with it?

Unless of course we assume FF14 has reached its peak so we shouldn't expect any new player influx.

Bladestrom

Someone buy's a game that has just been expanded from 50 - 60 levels and they complain that the content from 0-50 is now a barrier to entry!  Where have people learned this idiotic mad behavior I wonder, same stable where 'speed leveling' and 'min-maxing' and 'rush to endgame' perchance.  And those people wonder why they are not satisfied with any new mmorpg and why they don't understand the concept of immersion.  Next it will be the false lamentation that the genre is dying.

nbtscan

I'm late to the party, so it's hard for me to say "before everyone jumps down Foomerang's throat"...

Foom has been posting on these forums for a long time so I know by the context of his past posts where he's coming from.  He's not really into the combat-oriented activities in the game.  He's into crafting, gathering and all of the other non-combat content.  And ARR allows for that.

With that said...I personally like the direction the game is going.  It's been known since back in beta for ARR that the structure of the game was changing greatly and that DoL/DoH wouldn't be able to progress through the main branch of the game on their own merits.  Everyone had to level a battle class to get to the "end game", which means different things for different people.

Story is a huge focus for this game, and like others have brought up, gating the expansion content behind finishing the 2.x story creates the continuity needed to progress through the new story.  Some people may not care about this, I know, but this is how the developers have made the game and people either embrace it, deal with it, or not play it at all.

Getting to the point of completing the main story isn't very difficult.  How fast you get there depends on how much time you have to play really.  I've seen reddit posts of players making it through the main story within a week and already working on gearing up to get through the ilvl requirements of the last leg.  I know in Foom's case it's not a matter of not being able to do, it's a matter of not wanting to.  There's just really no choice if you want to experience the Heavensward content though.

Originally posted by Tymoris

You don't need to go right into thte expansion but it seems SE didn't learn anything from Chains of Promathia from FFXI.

Two completely difference cases.  CoP was unique in the fact that it made you go back and do lower level capped content to progress through the story.

Chrisbox

This is laughable...completing the story up to 2.55(which was pretty amazing by the way) and getting ilvl 90 isn't hard at all, don't let OP scare you lads.  

unfilteredJW

I love whiney Uncle Owens.

Tymoris

Originally posted by nbtscan

I'm late to the party, so it's hard for me to say "before everyone jumps down Foomerang's throat"...

Foom has been posting on these forums for a long time so I know by the context of his past posts where he's coming from.  He's not really into the combat-oriented activities in the game.  He's into crafting, gathering and all of the other non-combat content.  And ARR allows for that.

With that said...I personally like the direction the game is going.  It's been known since back in beta for ARR that the structure of the game was changing greatly and that DoL/DoH wouldn't be able to progress through the main branch of the game on their own merits.  Everyone had to level a battle class to get to the "end game", which means different things for different people.

Story is a huge focus for this game, and like others have brought up, gating the expansion content behind finishing the 2.x story creates the continuity needed to progress through the new story.  Some people may not care about this, I know, but this is how the developers have made the game and people either embrace it, deal with it, or not play it at all.

Getting to the point of completing the main story isn't very difficult.  How fast you get there depends on how much time you have to play really.  I've seen reddit posts of players making it through the main story within a week and already working on gearing up to get through the ilvl requirements of the last leg.  I know in Foom's case it's not a matter of not being able to do, it's a matter of not wanting to.  There's just really no choice if you want to experience the Heavensward content though.

Originally posted by Tymoris

You don't need to go right into thte expansion but it seems SE didn't learn anything from Chains of Promathia from FFXI.

Two completely difference cases.  CoP was unique in the fact that it made you go back and do lower level capped content to progress through the story.

Cop was unique also that if you joined the game late and unless you had enough people with enough time to go through all the missions that involved capped levels and no rewards you were pretty much hosed. That is until SE finally figured it out and allowed to to be solo.

For me that will be the problem with the FF14 expansion, it will probably end up the same. Unless of course the population that is in the in between new player and veteran is so healthy to allow steady progression.

After all they aren't saying "Be 50 with this high item level to do the unlock missions". They say "Do all the previous content because it's better to have arbitary hurdles to prolong the game's life".

unfilteredJW

Heaven forbid developers care about the narrative they created.