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Greed Monger Cancelled; $100,000+ in Kickstarter Funds Unaccounted For
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When debating with someone so intelligent as yourself, I can imagine why you accuse me of having a selective memory. But to be honest when you keep playing the man, instead of the ball, you make this debate rather difficult.
When we backtrack, someone says 99% of all kickstarter projects fail (nicely illustrated with a picture). You replied with the Kickstarter stat page. To which my reply was that those numbers are irrelevant to the success rate, those numbers only show success in funding. In just two lines of text.
Your reply was a lot of lines seemingly directly to me as a person. The conclusion is that our opinions differ. I hope if we ever debate again the punches land above the waste.
I understand why someone like yourself would find me intelligent, but it’s kind of relative really, I’m just aware that I don’t know shit about legislation (especially in US) and I didn’t fully read Kickstarters EULA, leaving me in no position to criticize them or even saying what and how they should be doing.
Also. that wasn’t exactly your reply, but I’ll go along with it. It is true that the page doesn’t necessarily provide the number of actually successful projects funded by Kickstarter, but saying that the number of successful funded projects is irrelevant to the amount successful projects it’s just bullshit, a failed funded project will always be a failed project considering they ran out of funding options when they resorted to Kickstarter, but a successful funded project will always have a chance to result in a successful project, thus influencing the result, thus being relevant to it.
Now your actual reply was that if I was aware of the “uselessness” of that page, yes, I am, I also know it’s useful enough to know that there are currently 234,838 launched projects via Kickstarter, considering that 99% fail, is saying that only around 2348 of those projects succeed, so yes, the page is just useful enough to see get an small idea how silly that made up percentage is.
Anyhow, if you ask me it’s no entirely my fault why this debate is “difficult”, honestly I don’t even really see much of a reason for it, you seem to want Kickstarter to take up some responsibility on the projects final results, even financially compensating the backers who supported unsuccessful projects, when both sides of the Kickstarter users agreed upon the very start that Kickstarter wouldn’t have to do it… so, why would they? They are not forced legally to do it, it wouldn’t be profitable to do…. What? Just to look nice then?
PS: Also, please don’t take my replies so personally, generally they are for those who are blaming the Kickstarter for this kind of situations, especially the ones who backed such kind of projects, since they agreed themselves on the conditions.
NO! The way we get it back is to stop giving them money for crappy franchise games, endless sequels and unfinished/buggy releases. The problem is that too many people like these shitty games or don't know better. This genre is as dead as Hollywood which produces only crap and propaganda nothing worth my money.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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Man you summed it up nicely. That is my thought also. KS is an invaluable tool for indie companies to finish a game. But there are two truths that must be understood
1. Despite Unity being powerful, making a game requires real programming skill. You can´t just wake up one day, download Unity and go to KS to be funded to learn how to make a game.
2. You can do a LOT of work for free. There are obviously costs to making a game, but a person who is really dedicated to the project can do a ton of actual development before needing money. Most of the costs associated with a game come at the end, when you need to turn off your prototyping artwork and need to distribute to beta testers. The main functionality of a game should be done before you need any money. You know a game is a fake when the opposite is true, when they are showing you screenshots and videos that have no functionality..
Hilarious.
Voted for Dev of the year.
Good spent money on that KS.
Be careful which KSs you support and avoid
paying guys like this and their missuses.
Only chance to get back at him is to be his
neighbour and do his wife.
Go get that App.
Hahaha, +1
Just don't forget, safety first, you don't want to get any diseases.
Funding a game in a cash shop, for a game thats already up and running v funding a game that at best has a 33% chance of being released. Ya thats the same thing.
Absolutely.
Whales spend money in a cash shop to pay-to-win. If they like wins ... they get exactly what they pay for ... fair exchange with no fraud. Now you and I may not like to buy wins ... but that is just another preferences on games.
KS, OTOH, has a high risks of NOT getting what you want to pay for .... as opposed to cash shop .. which provides exactly what the whales want.
And why would anyone want to fund "what you believe gaming should be like"? I don't fund what i believe movies should be right. I don't fund what i believe novels should be right. The funding mechanism is the market and it works. I rewards game devs, if i like their products, by purchasing a complete product ... no different than movies, novels and other entertainment.
Is there a reason why i should try games differently?
We fund novels and films that we like and reflect what we want to see in those media by buying them. So funding a game that you think will give you the experience you want is just an extension of that. But just like pre-order I advise caution.
I am not trying to change why you decide to play a game, that boat left several years ago. Just trying to show you that not everyone puts over money for the reasons you do. Or tries to avoid paying money like you do.
Even though I hate the idea of "liking" a post, you have tempted me there.
No .. we don't fund the development of novels and films. We buy them when they are available .. and often after figuring out if we like the product.
Extending buying products to funding products .... change the nature of the relationship. If we are not getting the upside of the revenue, why should we be the investors?
Preorder .... there is no risks of not having the product. By law, you money will be refunded if the product does not materialize.
oh .. i know some people are just suckers and will give money to beggers on KS .... and I won't be changing anything ....but it is fun to call that out.
Why is that a bad thing? People should lose faith in places that foster begging and fraud.
KS is not going to get gaming back to what it used to be ... KS is going to lure those who want products with little market to pony up their money for nothing.
You are so wrong here Nari. This is not just about bringing back some old gaming design and ethos. Yes many of us want to see that, but crowd funding is far bigger than that. Are you saying that so far CF has never produced a game you liked or played?
If we do get some return to old school it will just be a subset of CF success and probably not the biggest thing to come from it. It is about innovation and I seriously doubt old/new hybrid MMOs will be seen as its greatest achievement.
With Pre-order you can still get sold something that does not live up to your expectations, indeed you often do. But I accept the risk is greater in CF, with the caveat that many taking part in CF pay in less than they would to pre-order a game.
I see bad practise in cash shops, in pre-order and in crowd funding. You only see it in crowd funding, I suggest you take your blinkers of.
no. I am saying why bother with it? If indeed it produces something i like .. i will buy it when it is a product. If they can't produce anything ... i just go some place else for entertainment .. there is no lack of that.
hmm .. i don't preorder ... and everything I bought is fun .. because I do research .. but that is besides the point. Preoder does NOT risk not having anything. That is a big difference, don't you think? You can accept any risk you want. May be you go to vegas and gamble too .. does not mean i will say gambling is a good thing.
And again, if there is fraud in KS .. it is facts .. and don't you think people should know about them .. and judge KS with that in mind?
And what is the bad practice in cash shop? Pay to win? Well .. sure you can call it bad if you don't like it .. at least it is not fraud and whales know exactly what they get.
You are confused between a product (pay-2-win) that you disapprove and bad practice (encouraging fraud).
I'd watch it. It would be like a Silicon valley spin-off on HBO lol.
The irony in your statement is priceless. If I didn't know any better, I would think you were talking about Pantheon lol.
Crowdfunding is clearly not for you, so just stay away from it. Just because you don't want to help fund a project you're passionate about doesn't mean it's a bad idea. My favorite part of crowdfunding is that it enables a developer to raise money for a project that they may not be able to secure funding for through the normal channels. This also gives them independence to develop the game they want without having to answer to overbearing publishers. Will there be cases of fraud or projects not being completed? Sure there will, but there will also be great projects completed as well. Think of it as an investment, you're helping enable a project to be undertaken. Investments always have risks. This is why you should research and only invest in something that you believe is likely to provide you with a return on that investment. There is no burden on anyone to convince you that crowdfunding isn't evil. Investing isn't for you and that's cool, just stick to buying games off the shelf.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So if everything goes according to plan, the devs of the game get rich and you get the game and maybe some digital goods. If the project does not go the way it is supposed to, you lost hard earned money (probably a lot of it) and the people developing the game still got paid. Can you imagine if investment in every industry worked like this? You and some friends give Joe some money to open up a chain of hamburger joints and all Joe promises you in return are a few hamburgers and no say so at all over how the business is run. If Joe is a scamming fool that can't cook a hambuger to save his life, you just lost your investment and all old Joe lost was his time...and he was getting paid. I need to get into the kickstarter business.
Was this the same game that started out with "Appleton doesn't know anything about making an MMO - do not fund" and followed up with "I'll sue if you let your readers say mean things about me" ? Is that the same game?
I don't want anyone to be took advantage of, but maybe these victims will learn now and this sort of thing will happen less. I sure hope so because nature has proven that if left alone, scum grows.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
This. Can't compare investments to KS at all, as there is 0 monetary gain from backing a game.
I wasn't going to post anything here and just enjoy the show, but then I saw this little gem.
Yes, games by AAA companies fail all the time. But the vast majority of them don't take money up front for it. You and Assholeton took over $100K from people with the promise, moral obligation and (arguably) legal obligation to make the game that was featured. That game has now been cancelled due to lack of funding (yet you somehow have the money to make a shitty little zombie survival game). You don't just get to say, "We'll pay them back by giving them free stuff relating to a different game we want to make". That's horseshit, and you fucking know it.
AAA games sometimes take preorders, then wind up being cancelled. Know what happens? They refund the pre-orders! You on the other hand have taken the money and can't even account for it. You're not making the game, you're not doing anything with the IP, and you're not even honoring the agreement to ship out physical goods to those who paid for them. You owe those people either the game that was promised, or a refund. Period.
Don't have the money? Doesn't matter. As long as you live, you have earned income potential. If a court were so inclined they could place a lien on your home or car. They could intercept tax refunds, and garnish your wages. If it's determined that you are legally obligated to repay that money, they're going to get it from you one way or the other, one dollar at a time if need be. Same goes for Assholeton.
I hope you and all your pathetic scammer friends get sued to hell and back. Perhaps a decade of garnished wages will teach you to honor your commitments, though I doubt it.
I didn't donate to your game, and nor do I really care about it. But seeing people like you pull this shit and make it even harder for good, honest people to get the money they need to see their projects come to light pisses me right the fuck off. I'll be doing my best to make sure nobody patronizes any project with your name attached to it ever again, and I doubt I'm the only person on this site who will be doing so.
Lying, rotten, dishonest scumbag. I don't care if I get in trouble for saying it, it's the truth.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
+1