Not everyone that talks about "old school" MMO's is looking back through rose tinted glasses, something we are regularly accused of on this forum. How do I know this? Because out of the sheer glut of modern MMO's available to play which ones and I currently logging into? The answer to that is none.
So which MMO am I currently playing? EQ classic server plus the Kunark expansion, with the same game mechanics that were in the game at that time, for better or worse no matter how broken. No quality of life improvements from later expansions just plain ol' EQ with it's hell levels, loss of xp on death, losing levels on death sometimes, corpse runs, no mounts, no PoK books for porting around, sitting on a boat for 20 minutes if you can't get a druid/wiz port, no auction house, xp penalties for races and classes and all. You either live with it or you don't log in.
Why would I subject myself to this torture? Well apart from still being a fun game, one word. Community. People playing on this server actually give a shit, they help out, they don't act like dicks and they try and maintain a good reputation. Yes, it's very niche and not for everyone, or even most, but if you want to play a MMO with a real community then this is where you go.
There is nothing wrong with Old School, you just need to not be a whiney little wimp that can't hack it. Short attention span, no patience, gimme gimme gimme crybabies need not apply.
While there are people like that in mmorpgs often there not all like that, anyways I wish I could get into old gameplay mechanics and graphics and play eq again otherwise id be all over that. I tried 6 7 years ago just couldnt do it.
Of course the old school players are the minority.
The majority isn't even play mmorpg back in the days.
And the reality is the majority just want to play good games. It have nothing to do with concept. If any studio make a good mmorpg with old school concept, people will play it too.
And forum complainers are not the majority. I can bet most of the complainers would not even be here if they have games to play. People that are content with their games are actually playing games instead of coming to the forums and complain.
Reading most every post, I would say off the cuff that 80% don't get it.
Wait, let's try to think like, you know, mature adults.
So 80% "dont get it". Which means, 80% don't agree with your post. Couldn't it be that actually YOU and the 20% are wrong, and the 80% are actually right?
That's how democracy works.
OK good idea, Lets be mature OK ?
Your saying if a new mmo were made with Old school qualities it would have kill 10 rat quest, low 2001 graphics, and raids that would last 9 hours, and the coding would be a mess.
Is that what your saying ?
Like one or not, do you think it would have stick figures ?
First back up, what is it that you think people don't get? Reading all your posts/threads suggests you feel people aren't giving you the authority on this topic you think you deserve. IE the authority on what's good or bad, the authority on what an MMORPG must be, etc... This is a running theme with your threads.
I'm sure you could see that
1) People are forever searching for a new mmo, even with over 200 mmos on the list here.
2) A lot of the people are pissed about cash shops.
3) A lot of people are looking for an mmo that will last more than 30 days, they would like to find a home for a long time.
4) Archage, proved that people are looking for an Old school style, but greed got the better of developers.
5) Lots of post on General Discussions Have been made on here, asking for the same thing.
6) Pantheon, is becoming the "looking forward mmo ", because of the promise of old school qualities, and that mmo is years away !
1) People? What people can you show us these people?
2) A lot of people? Can you show us these lots of people? Any data on this other than MMORPGS with cash shops are profitable?
3) A lot of people are looking for mmo that last more than 30 days? Can you provide the emails these people have sent you to back up this?
4) Archage proved that sandboxers cant even be happy with a sandbox, it didnt prove anything else. But I would love to see the data that proved it to you.
5) Lots of post on a small website that 99.9% of MMORPG players dont come to or know about? What does that have to do with anything?
6) Pantheon is becoming the "looking forward mmo" TO YOU, and maybe others because there is nothing else coming down the pipe right now. I would bet that more people are "looking forward to ESO on the Console" than looking forward to Pantheon.
Again stop acting like you know what other people want, think, or feel because you clearly have no clue what others want, think or fee.
people..
This one talks about a blizzard dev thinks wow ruined mmorpgs
People need to wake up to the truth of mmorpgs we arent in the minority like people in this thread would like you to believe.
Haha 12 threads you copy/pasted from your spreadsheet equals not the minority too funny. Your most valuable source is REDDIT are you kidding?
Give it up little buddy, yes you are the minority a matter a fact anyone who post in a forum is the minority, but I will give you at least those like you who QQ all the time are the Vocal minority.
So you have 12 threads, most from REDDIT what a joke, update your spreadsheet for goodness sakes, and WoW currently has 7 MILLION PLAYING. Once you find 7,000,001 people we can start talking about how you arent the minority.
Originally posted by aliven Oh, look diary, another thread about how new mmos are bad. And how glorified old schoolers think they are right So funny...
Oh look diary, another poster about how new mmos are perfect, and how glorified chat rooms mmorpg players think they are right:) So funny.
But then, "old school" MMORPGs had less than 1 million players total, on the whole planet. Nowadays, the MMORPG market has over 50 million players, and I'm conservative.
Indeed... so funny.
Jean-L, You can't seem to get the word OLD out of your head.
Maybe I should reword it to original formula made in 2015 !
And most of those 1 million where kids and non gamers, wow easy casual and easy to learn it wasnt truly meant for rpg gamers as a whole, and lets keep in mind gaming just started getting more popular so this doesnt apply when older mmorpgs where at the time when gaming was still only for nerds.
Vanilla WoW was drastically different than the WoW of today, how quick people forget that. There was the ability to solo to the top, but there was multiple "elite" quest areas that rewarded significantly better and required grouping. Leveling took much longer and was more difficult since pulling multiple mobs solo could mean death for a good amount of classes. WoW was actually originally designed to be a new/better Everquest as many of the developers were pretty hardcore EQ players. Raiding was pretty exclusive (especially the bleeding edge raiding). It wasn't until WotLK that WoW started becoming "easier" in general.
You also tout that most of those gamers weren't gamers at all, which is also complete and utter garbage. They might not have been traditional mmo gamers (although a number of EQ folks transitioned to WoW), but they were Blizzard gamers. WoW became popular because of the popularity of Blizzard and the WarCraft franchise and many of those people were long time Blizzard fans.
You also falsely state that "gaming was for nerds". Which is wholly untrue. Gaming has been INSANELY popular since at least the mid 90's. PC gaming wasn't as popular, but the PS1, PS2, Genesis, SNES and N64 all sold very well. Console gaming was well into the mainstream and gaming was no longer a fringe activity. The first couple of generations of the MMO were on the fringe and were brought into popularity with the popularity of WoW.
I would also say that your claim that most of those non-gamers were also kids that entered into mmo gaming with WoW has little merit.. Sure there were some kids, of course, but gaming was the most popular within the 18-32 age bracket in general. Your average kid can't afford a PC nor a subscription. Modern gaming is squarely a hobby for adults and has been for quite awhile.
Reading most every post, I would say off the cuff that 80% don't get it.
Wait, let's try to think like, you know, mature adults.
So 80% "dont get it". Which means, 80% don't agree with your post. Couldn't it be that actually YOU and the 20% are wrong, and the 80% are actually right?
That's how democracy works.
OK good idea, Lets be mature OK ?
Your saying if a new mmo were made with Old school qualities it would have kill 10 rat quest, low 2001 graphics, and raids that would last 9 hours, and the coding would be a mess.
Is that what your saying ?
Like one or not, do you think it would have stick figures ?
First back up, what is it that you think people don't get? Reading all your posts/threads suggests you feel people aren't giving you the authority on this topic you think you deserve. IE the authority on what's good or bad, the authority on what an MMORPG must be, etc... This is a running theme with your threads.
I'm sure you could see that
1) People are forever searching for a new mmo, even with over 200 mmos on the list here.
2) A lot of the people are pissed about cash shops.
3) A lot of people are looking for an mmo that will last more than 30 days, they would like to find a home for a long time.
4) Archage, proved that people are looking for an Old school style, but greed got the better of developers.
5) Lots of post on General Discussions Have been made on here, asking for the same thing.
6) Pantheon, is becoming the "looking forward mmo ", because of the promise of old school qualities, and that mmo is years away !
1) People? What people can you show us these people?
2) A lot of people? Can you show us these lots of people? Any data on this other than MMORPGS with cash shops are profitable?
3) A lot of people are looking for mmo that last more than 30 days? Can you provide the emails these people have sent you to back up this?
4) Archage proved that sandboxers cant even be happy with a sandbox, it didnt prove anything else. But I would love to see the data that proved it to you.
5) Lots of post on a small website that 99.9% of MMORPG players dont come to or know about? What does that have to do with anything?
6) Pantheon is becoming the "looking forward mmo" TO YOU, and maybe others because there is nothing else coming down the pipe right now. I would bet that more people are "looking forward to ESO on the Console" than looking forward to Pantheon.
Again stop acting like you know what other people want, think, or feel because you clearly have no clue what others want, think or fee.
people..
This one talks about a blizzard dev thinks wow ruined mmorpgs
People need to wake up to the truth of mmorpgs we arent in the minority like people in this thread would like you to believe.
Haha 12 threads you copy/pasted from your spreadsheet equals not the minority too funny. Your most valuable source is REDDIT are you kidding?
Give it up little buddy, yes you are the minority a matter a fact anyone who post in a forum is the minority, but I will give you at least those like you who QQ all the time are the Vocal minority.
So you have 12 threads, most from REDDIT what a joke, update your spreadsheet for goodness sakes, and WoW currently has 7 MILLION PLAYING. Once you find 7,000,001 people we can start talking about how you arent the minority.
Actually I googled I can provide more websites for you im sure. Your trying way to hard to discredit old school mmos arent you? I doubt you even read them typical know it all kid.
Originally posted by aliven Oh, look diary, another thread about how new mmos are bad. And how glorified old schoolers think they are right So funny...
Oh look diary, another poster about how new mmos are perfect, and how glorified chat rooms mmorpg players think they are right:) So funny.
But then, "old school" MMORPGs had less than 1 million players total, on the whole planet. Nowadays, the MMORPG market has over 50 million players, and I'm conservative.
Indeed... so funny.
Jean-L, You can't seem to get the word OLD out of your head.
Maybe I should reword it to original formula made in 2015 !
And most of those 1 million where kids and non gamers, wow easy casual and easy to learn it wasnt truly meant for rpg gamers as a whole, and lets keep in mind gaming just started getting more popular so this doesnt apply when older mmorpgs where at the time when gaming was still only for nerds.
Vanilla WoW was drastically different than the WoW of today, how quick people forget that. There was the ability to solo to the top, but there was multiple "elite" quest areas that rewarded significantly better and required grouping. Leveling took much longer and was more difficult since pulling multiple mobs solo could mean death for a good amount of classes. WoW was actually originally designed to be a new/better Everquest as many of the developers were pretty hardcore EQ players. Raiding was pretty exclusive (especially the bleeding edge raiding). It wasn't until WotLK that WoW started becoming "easier" in general.
You also tout that most of those gamers weren't gamers at all, which is also complete and utter garbage. They might not have been traditional mmo gamers (although a number of EQ folks transitioned to WoW), but they were Blizzard gamers. WoW became popular because of the popularity of Blizzard and the WarCraft franchise and many of those people were long time Blizzard fans.
You also falsely state that "gaming was for nerds". Which is wholly untrue. Gaming has been INSANELY popular since at least the mid 90's. PC gaming wasn't as popular, but the PS1, PS2, Genesis, SNES and N64 all sold very well. Console gaming was well into the mainstream and gaming was no longer a fringe activity. The first couple of generations of the MMO were on the fringe and were brought into popularity with the popularity of WoW.
I would also say that your claim that most of those non-gamers were also kids that entered into mmo gaming with WoW has little merit.. Sure there were some kids, of course, but gaming was the most popular within the 18-32 age bracket in general. Your average kid can't afford a PC nor a subscription. Modern gaming is squarely a hobby for adults and has been for quite awhile.
Whats utter crap is what your spouting there in the 90s it was more popular then the 80s but it was still frowned upon and considered nerdy by the majority. Just because kids owned the snes and others doesnt mean people didnt look down on you for it. The truth is cod made gaming truly popular then wow before cod.
Haha 12 threads you copy/pasted from your spreadsheet equals not the minority too funny. Your most valuable source is REDDIT are you kidding?
Give it up little buddy, yes you are the minority a matter a fact anyone who post in a forum is the minority, but I will give you at least those like you who QQ all the time are the Vocal minority.
So you have 12 threads, most from REDDIT what a joke, update your spreadsheet for goodness sakes, and WoW currently has 7 MILLION PLAYING. Once you find 7,000,001 people we can start talking about how you arent the minority.
Actually I googled I can provide more websites for you im sure. Your trying way to hard to discredit old school mmos arent you? I doubt you even read them typical know it all kid.
Oh I don't have to try and discredit how "old school gamers" are the majority. You see facts and reality already do that. Something you clearly are not up to speed on.
Now you can believe what the internet tells you all day long thats your choice, but dont come bringing a few QQ POST as your defense you will get eaten up all day.
You see the FACT that no developer has made a game for you "old school gamers" and the fact the few of you "old school gamers" continue to cry about how there are no games SHOULD prove that the MAJORITY dont want your "old school games" but again you dont want to talk facts.
Haha 12 threads you copy/pasted from your spreadsheet equals not the minority too funny. Your most valuable source is REDDIT are you kidding?
Give it up little buddy, yes you are the minority a matter a fact anyone who post in a forum is the minority, but I will give you at least those like you who QQ all the time are the Vocal minority.
So you have 12 threads, most from REDDIT what a joke, update your spreadsheet for goodness sakes, and WoW currently has 7 MILLION PLAYING. Once you find 7,000,001 people we can start talking about how you arent the minority.
Actually I googled I can provide more websites for you im sure. Your trying way to hard to discredit old school mmos arent you? I doubt you even read them typical know it all kid.
Oh I don't have to try and discredit how "old school gamers" are the majority. You see facts and reality already do that. Something you clearly are not up to speed on.
Now you can believe what the internet tells you all day long thats your choice, but dont come bringing that as your defense you will get eaten up all day.
You see the FACT that no developer has made a game for you "old school gamers" and the fact the few of you "old school gamers" continue to cry about how there are no games SHOULD prove that the MAJORITY dont want your "old school games" but again you dont want to talk facts.
Listen here, young one. You asked who where these people I provided plenty, and there are plenty more, and I will provide as I please rather you like or not, your just upset because you failed. Now I ask you where is your proof that people dont want these things hmmm?
Haha 12 threads you copy/pasted from your spreadsheet equals not the minority too funny. Your most valuable source is REDDIT are you kidding?
Give it up little buddy, yes you are the minority a matter a fact anyone who post in a forum is the minority, but I will give you at least those like you who QQ all the time are the Vocal minority.
So you have 12 threads, most from REDDIT what a joke, update your spreadsheet for goodness sakes, and WoW currently has 7 MILLION PLAYING. Once you find 7,000,001 people we can start talking about how you arent the minority.
Actually I googled I can provide more websites for you im sure. Your trying way to hard to discredit old school mmos arent you? I doubt you even read them typical know it all kid.
Oh I don't have to try and discredit how "old school gamers" are the majority. You see facts and reality already do that. Something you clearly are not up to speed on.
Now you can believe what the internet tells you all day long thats your choice, but dont come bringing that as your defense you will get eaten up all day.
You see the FACT that no developer has made a game for you "old school gamers" and the fact the few of you "old school gamers" continue to cry about how there are no games SHOULD prove that the MAJORITY dont want your "old school games" but again you dont want to talk facts.
Listen here, young one. You asked who where these people I provided plenty, and there are plenty more, and I will provide as I please rather you like or not, your just upset because you failed. Now I ask you where is your proof that people dont want these things hmmm?
Upset listen here little buddy im not upset at all I am enjoying allowing you to make a fool out of yourself please continue...I didnt fail at anything I just proved to you that having a few old men crying about video games does NOT equal majority. Sorry little buddy better luck next time.
I never said a few old guys crying in their moms basement dont want these things. I said the majority doesnt want these things.
The proof? Well nobody is making or buying these games. That is all the proof anyone needs.
Haha 12 threads you copy/pasted from your spreadsheet equals not the minority too funny. Your most valuable source is REDDIT are you kidding?
Give it up little buddy, yes you are the minority a matter a fact anyone who post in a forum is the minority, but I will give you at least those like you who QQ all the time are the Vocal minority.
So you have 12 threads, most from REDDIT what a joke, update your spreadsheet for goodness sakes, and WoW currently has 7 MILLION PLAYING. Once you find 7,000,001 people we can start talking about how you arent the minority.
Actually I googled I can provide more websites for you im sure. Your trying way to hard to discredit old school mmos arent you? I doubt you even read them typical know it all kid.
Oh I don't have to try and discredit how "old school gamers" are the majority. You see facts and reality already do that. Something you clearly are not up to speed on.
Now you can believe what the internet tells you all day long thats your choice, but dont come bringing that as your defense you will get eaten up all day.
You see the FACT that no developer has made a game for you "old school gamers" and the fact the few of you "old school gamers" continue to cry about how there are no games SHOULD prove that the MAJORITY dont want your "old school games" but again you dont want to talk facts.
Listen here, young one. You asked who where these people I provided plenty, and there are plenty more, and I will provide as I please rather you like or not, your just upset because you failed. Now I ask you where is your proof that people dont want these things hmmm?
Upset listen here little buddy im not upset at all I am enjoying allowing you to make a fool out of yourself please continue...I didnt fail at anything I just proved to you that having a few old men crying about video games does NOT equal majority. Sorry little buddy better luck next time.
Wow talk about deninal when a dev blizzard employee saids wow killed mmorpgs that saids more then you say thats for sure. People will pay more attention to that then your nonsese, the truth is there is plenty of evidence from google of what people think of mmorpgs today, maybe you need to suck it up and accept it and stop being whiny about it.
Haha 12 threads you copy/pasted from your spreadsheet equals not the minority too funny. Your most valuable source is REDDIT are you kidding?
Give it up little buddy, yes you are the minority a matter a fact anyone who post in a forum is the minority, but I will give you at least those like you who QQ all the time are the Vocal minority.
So you have 12 threads, most from REDDIT what a joke, update your spreadsheet for goodness sakes, and WoW currently has 7 MILLION PLAYING. Once you find 7,000,001 people we can start talking about how you arent the minority.
Actually I googled I can provide more websites for you im sure. Your trying way to hard to discredit old school mmos arent you? I doubt you even read them typical know it all kid.
Oh I don't have to try and discredit how "old school gamers" are the majority. You see facts and reality already do that. Something you clearly are not up to speed on.
Now you can believe what the internet tells you all day long thats your choice, but dont come bringing that as your defense you will get eaten up all day.
You see the FACT that no developer has made a game for you "old school gamers" and the fact the few of you "old school gamers" continue to cry about how there are no games SHOULD prove that the MAJORITY dont want your "old school games" but again you dont want to talk facts.
Listen here, young one. You asked who where these people I provided plenty, and there are plenty more, and I will provide as I please rather you like or not, your just upset because you failed. Now I ask you where is your proof that people dont want these things hmmm?
Upset listen here little buddy im not upset at all I am enjoying allowing you to make a fool out of yourself please continue...I didnt fail at anything I just proved to you that having a few old men crying about video games does NOT equal majority. Sorry little buddy better luck next time.
Wow talk about deninal when a dev blizzard employee saids wow killed mmorpgs that saids more then you say thats for sure. People will pay more attention to that then your nonsese, the truth is there is plenty of evidence from google of what people think of mmorpgs today, maybe you need to suck it up and accept it and stop being whiny about it.
There you go yeah google all the QQing thats a great source isnt it. You see im not the one whining that would be you, you are so caught up on Googling other QQ that you have started to create your own weird awkward perception of what reality is. When in reality most gamers stay away from forums because of people like you.
Again there are 7 million playing WoW today, that doesnt include SWTOR, RIFT, GW2, FFXIV, AOC, ESO, Neverwinter, im sorry how many people are playing your "old school games" ? And how many are QQ on your google?
Majority are NOT QQing on google lol...nice try though
Haha 12 threads you copy/pasted from your spreadsheet equals not the minority too funny. Your most valuable source is REDDIT are you kidding?
Give it up little buddy, yes you are the minority a matter a fact anyone who post in a forum is the minority, but I will give you at least those like you who QQ all the time are the Vocal minority.
So you have 12 threads, most from REDDIT what a joke, update your spreadsheet for goodness sakes, and WoW currently has 7 MILLION PLAYING. Once you find 7,000,001 people we can start talking about how you arent the minority.
Actually I googled I can provide more websites for you im sure. Your trying way to hard to discredit old school mmos arent you? I doubt you even read them typical know it all kid.
Oh I don't have to try and discredit how "old school gamers" are the majority. You see facts and reality already do that. Something you clearly are not up to speed on.
Now you can believe what the internet tells you all day long thats your choice, but dont come bringing that as your defense you will get eaten up all day.
You see the FACT that no developer has made a game for you "old school gamers" and the fact the few of you "old school gamers" continue to cry about how there are no games SHOULD prove that the MAJORITY dont want your "old school games" but again you dont want to talk facts.
Listen here, young one. You asked who where these people I provided plenty, and there are plenty more, and I will provide as I please rather you like or not, your just upset because you failed. Now I ask you where is your proof that people dont want these things hmmm?
Upset listen here little buddy im not upset at all I am enjoying allowing you to make a fool out of yourself please continue...I didnt fail at anything I just proved to you that having a few old men crying about video games does NOT equal majority. Sorry little buddy better luck next time.
Wow talk about deninal when a dev blizzard employee saids wow killed mmorpgs that saids more then you say thats for sure. People will pay more attention to that then your nonsese, the truth is there is plenty of evidence from google of what people think of mmorpgs today, maybe you need to suck it up and accept it and stop being whiny about it.
There you go yeah google all the QQing thats a great source isnt it. You see you im not the one whining that would be you, you are so caught up on Googling other QQ that you have started to create your own weird awkward perception of what reality is. When in reality most gamers stay away from forums because of people like you.
Again there are 7 million playing WoW today, that doesnt include SWTOR, RIFT, GW2, FFXIV, AOC, ESO, Neverwinter, im sorry how many people are playing your "old school games" ? And how many are QQ on your google?
Majority are NOT QQing on google lol...nice try though
And how do you know there not just subscribed and actually playing? Everyone is addicted to there first mmorpg thats a fact there is plenty of psychology behind it with a simple google search, wow got people into gaming because of how easy it was to understand and start, and lets not forget the art style is very appealing to kids. And before the warcraft franchise was popular. Just like the reason that eq is still around is because it was there first mmorpg, otherwise they would not keep it up along with other older mmorpgs.
But whatever keep living in denial its fine by me you only hurt yourself.
And here is a fun fact about how companies can lie about how many are subbed.
The numbers can be varified through Blizzards quarterly reports These reports cant be faked they are used by stock owners to evaluate stocks in the company and its a federal law that prohibits them from falsifying (either up or down) the figures about their profits
As far as #of accounts vs actual subs its the same as this is a sub based game no account that is not currently paid up can be listed as an asset from a financial point of view so if they say 10 million subs that means 10 million on going subscriptions, as to how many people pay but dont play, maybe some but nowhere near 70-80% This is a public company you can buy stocks and be a part owner for them to lie about their expected profits or last quarterly profit would not just be illegal but it wouldnt make sense the stock holders would accuse the board of fraudulently representing the value of the company. Thats illegal
10 million subs means 10 million payed up on going subscriptions, if they were counting subs no longer active (but active in the past) the number would be much higher #12 1/23/2013
There you go yeah google all the QQing thats a great source isnt it. You see you im not the one whining that would be you, you are so caught up on Googling other QQ that you have started to create your own weird awkward perception of what reality is. When in reality most gamers stay away from forums because of people like you.
Again there are 7 million playing WoW today, that doesnt include SWTOR, RIFT, GW2, FFXIV, AOC, ESO, Neverwinter, im sorry how many people are playing your "old school games" ? And how many are QQ on your google?
Majority are NOT QQing on google lol...nice try though
And how do you know there not just subscribed and actually playing? Everyone is addicted to there first mmorpg thats a fact there is plenty of psychology behind it with a simple google search, wow got people into gaming because of how easy it was to understand and start, and lets not forget the art style is very appealing to kids. And before the warcraft franchise was popular. Just like the reason that eq is still around is because it was there first mmorpg, otherwise they would not keep it up along with other older mmorpgs.
But whatever keep living in denial its fine by me you only hurt yourself.
And here is a fun fact about how companies can lie about how many are subbed.
The numbers can be varified through Blizzards quarterly reports These reports cant be faked they are used by stock owners to evaluate stocks in the company and its a federal law that prohibits them from falsifying (either up or down) the figures about their profits
As far as #of accounts vs actual subs its the same as this is a sub based game no account that is not currently paid up can be listed as an asset from a financial point of view so if they say 10 million subs that means 10 million on going subscriptions, as to how many people pay but dont play, maybe some but nowhere near 70-80% This is a public company you can buy stocks and be a part owner for them to lie about their expected profits or last quarterly profit would not just be illegal but it wouldnt make sense the stock holders would accuse the board of fraudulently representing the value of the company. Thats illegal
10 million subs means 10 million payed up on going subscriptions, if they were counting subs no longer active (but active in the past) the number would be much higher #12 1/23/2013
Haha im living in denial? Yeah im the one who thinks "old school gamers" are the majority...oh wait thats you not me...
A very nice copy/paste again little buddy. Do you ever write your own stuff? What would you do without google?
Yep companies are lying about sub numbers just to keep the QQers like you on your toes.
Originally posted by Vorian7 Of course its copy and paste I could not have known that without research duh but you really should stop arguing with people who have to much over your head, your obviously not intelligent or humble enough to handle different opinions or discuss facts,I suggest you go back to the wow forums you might feel more welcomed there.
Haha so is this your "intelligent" way to break the rules here? I hope your other account get reactivated soon.
Originally posted by Vorian7 Of course its copy and paste I could not have known that without research duh but you really should stop arguing with people who have to much over your head, your obviously not intelligent or humble enough to handle different opinions or discuss facts,I suggest you go back to the wow forums you might feel more welcomed there.
Haha so is this your "intelligent" way to break the rules here? I hope your other account get reactivated soon.
Hmm What does this mean? Are you abusing the power of the mods? That is silly over the fact he proved you wrong in multiple ways, a person should admit to there faults so they can grow we all have faults.
Originally posted by Vorian7 Of course its copy and paste I could not have known that without research duh but you really should stop arguing with people who have to much over your head, your obviously not intelligent or humble enough to handle different opinions or discuss facts,I suggest you go back to the wow forums you might feel more welcomed there.
Haha so is this your "intelligent" way to break the rules here? I hope your other account get reactivated soon.
Hmm What does this mean? Are you abusing the power of the mods? That is silly over the fact he proved you wrong in multiple ways, a person should admit to there faults so they can grow we all have faults.
Really Vorian ? You proved that the "old school gamer" is the majority? He did that once? Or as you say many times? Yeah I didn't think so. But nice try and really cute of you to Your own defense .
No im not abusing the power of the mods I just know the rules been slapped a few times myself. Now I have never told someone they are not intelligent but I don't think trying to be intelligent by not quoting and saying a person isn't intelligible doesn't change the fact (I guess you two don't like facts so you may not understand this part) it's against the rules.
Originally posted by Vorian7 Of course its copy and paste I could not have known that without research duh but you really should stop arguing with people who have to much over your head, your obviously not intelligent or humble enough to handle different opinions or discuss facts,I suggest you go back to the wow forums you might feel more welcomed there.
Haha so is this your "intelligent" way to break the rules here? I hope your other account get reactivated soon.
Hmm What does this mean? Are you abusing the power of the mods? That is silly over the fact he proved you wrong in multiple ways, a person should admit to there faults so they can grow we all have faults.
Really? He proved that the "old school gamer" is the majority? He did that once? Or as you say many times? Yeah I didn't think so. But nice try and really cute of you to run to his defense .
No im not abusing the power of the mods I just know the rules been slapped a few times myself. Now I have never told someone they are not intelligent but I don't think trying to be intelligent by not quoting and saying a person isn't intelligible doesn't change the fact (I guess you two don't like facts so you may not understand this part) it's against the rules.
There is proof that they are not in the minority though, but to be honest there is no proof either way and you didnt provide any proof either, and to be honest you come off as childish when you talk this way, you dont have experience with these mmorpgs so how do you even know? Maybe try going out in the real world and having a mature conversation with adults with different opinions and it might help you discuss things better behind a keyboard.
Why do people ever leave an existing 'old school' game that has everything they want?
You always bring up this strawman, and people always inform you that the older games we loved have drastically changed.
I do buh what?--can you point out a single previous example?
I always enjoy when people that I don't even know tell me what my habits are or aren't.
Still closer to the "old" design than newer games, even with the changes. You are saying they like the newer design MMOs BETTER than something that is closer to old school?
MMOs today are NOT MMOS, plain and simple....they are something else. You could attach any word you like to what ever they are, but there not mmos.
You can poke fun at this topic all you like but EVERYONE has to be able to face that were in a decline of staying power in all games made as of the past few years.
These words are so true. The current release of MMORPGs don't really fit the criteria that older games forged, but what that difference is is hard to define. Maybe the simplest explanation is that the current crop of MMORPGs lack soul or intent to produce an engaging world for players to explore.
MMOs today are NOT MMOS, plain and simple....they are something else. You could attach any word you like to what ever they are, but there not mmos.
You can poke fun at this topic all you like but EVERYONE has to be able to face that were in a decline of staying power in all games made as of the past few years.
These words are so true. The current release of MMORPGs don't really fit the criteria that older games forged, but what that difference is is hard to define. Maybe the simplest explanation is that the current crop of MMORPGs lack soul or intent to produce an engaging world for players to explore.
I am inclined to agree, where is the love and thought?
MMOs today are NOT MMOS, plain and simple....they are something else. You could attach any word you like to what ever they are, but there not mmos.
You can poke fun at this topic all you like but EVERYONE has to be able to face that were in a decline of staying power in all games made as of the past few years.
These words are so true. The current release of MMORPGs don't really fit the criteria that older games forged, but what that difference is is hard to define. Maybe the simplest explanation is that the current crop of MMORPGs lack soul or intent to produce an engaging world for players to explore.
I am inclined to agree, where is the love and thought?
Why don't you just post on Vorian7? Oh wait been proven wrong too many times in two days? Trying to start over with a new account? Well good luck with that.
MMOs today are NOT MMOS, plain and simple....they are something else. You could attach any word you like to what ever they are, but there not mmos.
You can poke fun at this topic all you like but EVERYONE has to be able to face that were in a decline of staying power in all games made as of the past few years.
These words are so true. The current release of MMORPGs don't really fit the criteria that older games forged, but what that difference is is hard to define. Maybe the simplest explanation is that the current crop of MMORPGs lack soul or intent to produce an engaging world for players to explore.
I am inclined to agree, where is the love and thought?
Why don't you just post on Vorian7? Oh wait been proven wrong too many times in two days? Trying to start over with a new account? Well good luck with that.
Omg who is this kid now your harrasing me, isnt there rules against this geesh!
Hey I'm just asking my you don't post on Vorian7?
It it was kind of a giveaway when your first post was a QQ about one of your (vorian7) post got deleted and you defended every post he made in a matter of minutes. I'd recommend using a little more discretion on your next alt.
MMOs today are NOT MMOS, plain and simple....they are something else. You could attach any word you like to what ever they are, but there not mmos.
You can poke fun at this topic all you like but EVERYONE has to be able to face that were in a decline of staying power in all games made as of the past few years.
These words are so true. The current release of MMORPGs don't really fit the criteria that older games forged, but what that difference is is hard to define. Maybe the simplest explanation is that the current crop of MMORPGs lack soul or intent to produce an engaging world for players to explore.
I am inclined to agree, where is the love and thought?
Why don't you just post on Vorian7? Oh wait been proven wrong too many times in two days? Trying to start over with a new account? Well good luck with that.
Omg who is this kid now your harrasing me, isnt there rules against this geesh!
Hey I'm just asking my you don't post on Vorian7?
It it was kind of a giveaway when your first post was a QQ about one of your (vorian7) post got deleted and you defended every post he made in a matter of minutes. I'd recommend using a little more discretion on your next alt.
Unless you have facts I suggest you just stop, this is just getting annoying now.
MMOs today are NOT MMOS, plain and simple....they are something else. You could attach any word you like to what ever they are, but there not mmos.
You can poke fun at this topic all you like but EVERYONE has to be able to face that were in a decline of staying power in all games made as of the past few years.
These words are so true. The current release of MMORPGs don't really fit the criteria that older games forged, but what that difference is is hard to define. Maybe the simplest explanation is that the current crop of MMORPGs lack soul or intent to produce an engaging world for players to explore.
I am inclined to agree, where is the love and thought?
Why don't you just post on Vorian7? Oh wait been proven wrong too many times in two days? Trying to start over with a new account? Well good luck with that.
Omg who is this kid now your harrasing me, isnt there rules against this geesh!
Hey I'm just asking my you don't post on Vorian7?
It it was kind of a giveaway when your first post was a QQ about one of your (vorian7) post got deleted and you defended every post he made in a matter of minutes. I'd recommend using a little more discretion on your next alt.
Unless you have facts I suggest you just stop, this is just getting annoying now.
Who you kidding both moonbound777 and vorian7 (is 7 your favorite number) don't deal in facts. And what I just laid out is more factual then how you feel "old school gamers" are the majority.
Comments
While there are people like that in mmorpgs often there not all like that, anyways I wish I could get into old gameplay mechanics and graphics and play eq again otherwise id be all over that. I tried 6 7 years ago just couldnt do it.
Of course the old school players are the minority.
The majority isn't even play mmorpg back in the days.
And the reality is the majority just want to play good games. It have nothing to do with concept. If any studio make a good mmorpg with old school concept, people will play it too.
And forum complainers are not the majority. I can bet most of the complainers would not even be here if they have games to play. People that are content with their games are actually playing games instead of coming to the forums and complain.
Haha 12 threads you copy/pasted from your spreadsheet equals not the minority too funny. Your most valuable source is REDDIT are you kidding?
Give it up little buddy, yes you are the minority a matter a fact anyone who post in a forum is the minority, but I will give you at least those like you who QQ all the time are the Vocal minority.
So you have 12 threads, most from REDDIT what a joke, update your spreadsheet for goodness sakes, and WoW currently has 7 MILLION PLAYING. Once you find 7,000,001 people we can start talking about how you arent the minority.
Vanilla WoW was drastically different than the WoW of today, how quick people forget that. There was the ability to solo to the top, but there was multiple "elite" quest areas that rewarded significantly better and required grouping. Leveling took much longer and was more difficult since pulling multiple mobs solo could mean death for a good amount of classes. WoW was actually originally designed to be a new/better Everquest as many of the developers were pretty hardcore EQ players. Raiding was pretty exclusive (especially the bleeding edge raiding). It wasn't until WotLK that WoW started becoming "easier" in general.
You also tout that most of those gamers weren't gamers at all, which is also complete and utter garbage. They might not have been traditional mmo gamers (although a number of EQ folks transitioned to WoW), but they were Blizzard gamers. WoW became popular because of the popularity of Blizzard and the WarCraft franchise and many of those people were long time Blizzard fans.
You also falsely state that "gaming was for nerds". Which is wholly untrue. Gaming has been INSANELY popular since at least the mid 90's. PC gaming wasn't as popular, but the PS1, PS2, Genesis, SNES and N64 all sold very well. Console gaming was well into the mainstream and gaming was no longer a fringe activity. The first couple of generations of the MMO were on the fringe and were brought into popularity with the popularity of WoW.
I would also say that your claim that most of those non-gamers were also kids that entered into mmo gaming with WoW has little merit.. Sure there were some kids, of course, but gaming was the most popular within the 18-32 age bracket in general. Your average kid can't afford a PC nor a subscription. Modern gaming is squarely a hobby for adults and has been for quite awhile.
Actually I googled I can provide more websites for you im sure. Your trying way to hard to discredit old school mmos arent you? I doubt you even read them typical know it all kid.
Whats utter crap is what your spouting there in the 90s it was more popular then the 80s but it was still frowned upon and considered nerdy by the majority. Just because kids owned the snes and others doesnt mean people didnt look down on you for it. The truth is cod made gaming truly popular then wow before cod.
Oh I don't have to try and discredit how "old school gamers" are the majority. You see facts and reality already do that. Something you clearly are not up to speed on.
Now you can believe what the internet tells you all day long thats your choice, but dont come bringing a few QQ POST as your defense you will get eaten up all day.
I can find anything on the internet...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmack/2014/05/24/aliens-exist-and-will-be-found-pretty-soon-say-scientists/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories
want me to keep going?
You see the FACT that no developer has made a game for you "old school gamers" and the fact the few of you "old school gamers" continue to cry about how there are no games SHOULD prove that the MAJORITY dont want your "old school games" but again you dont want to talk facts.
Listen here, young one. You asked who where these people I provided plenty, and there are plenty more, and I will provide as I please rather you like or not, your just upset because you failed. Now I ask you where is your proof that people dont want these things hmmm?
Upset listen here little buddy im not upset at all I am enjoying allowing you to make a fool out of yourself please continue...I didnt fail at anything I just proved to you that having a few old men crying about video games does NOT equal majority. Sorry little buddy better luck next time.
I never said a few old guys crying in their moms basement dont want these things. I said the majority doesnt want these things.
The proof? Well nobody is making or buying these games. That is all the proof anyone needs.
Wow talk about deninal when a dev blizzard employee saids wow killed mmorpgs that saids more then you say thats for sure. People will pay more attention to that then your nonsese, the truth is there is plenty of evidence from google of what people think of mmorpgs today, maybe you need to suck it up and accept it and stop being whiny about it.
There you go yeah google all the QQing thats a great source isnt it. You see im not the one whining that would be you, you are so caught up on Googling other QQ that you have started to create your own weird awkward perception of what reality is. When in reality most gamers stay away from forums because of people like you.
Again there are 7 million playing WoW today, that doesnt include SWTOR, RIFT, GW2, FFXIV, AOC, ESO, Neverwinter, im sorry how many people are playing your "old school games" ? And how many are QQ on your google?
Majority are NOT QQing on google lol...nice try though
And how do you know there not just subscribed and actually playing? Everyone is addicted to there first mmorpg thats a fact there is plenty of psychology behind it with a simple google search, wow got people into gaming because of how easy it was to understand and start, and lets not forget the art style is very appealing to kids. And before the warcraft franchise was popular. Just like the reason that eq is still around is because it was there first mmorpg, otherwise they would not keep it up along with other older mmorpgs.
But whatever keep living in denial its fine by me you only hurt yourself.
And here is a fun fact about how companies can lie about how many are subbed.
The numbers can be varified through Blizzards quarterly reports
These reports cant be faked they are used by stock owners to evaluate stocks in the company and its a federal law that prohibits them from falsifying (either up or down) the figures about their profits
As far as #of accounts vs actual subs its the same as this is a sub based game no account that is not currently paid up can be listed as an asset from a financial point of view so if they say 10 million subs that means 10 million on going subscriptions, as to how many people pay but dont play, maybe some but nowhere near 70-80%
This is a public company you can buy stocks and be a part owner for them to lie about their expected profits or last quarterly profit would not just be illegal but it wouldnt make sense the stock holders would accuse the board of fraudulently representing the value of the company. Thats illegal
10 million subs means 10 million payed up on going subscriptions, if they were counting subs no longer active (but active in the past) the number would be much higher
#12
1/23/2013
Haha im living in denial? Yeah im the one who thinks "old school gamers" are the majority...oh wait thats you not me...
A very nice copy/paste again little buddy. Do you ever write your own stuff? What would you do without google?
Yep companies are lying about sub numbers just to keep the QQers like you on your toes.
Haha so is this your "intelligent" way to break the rules here? I hope your other account get reactivated soon.
I do buh what?--can you point out a single previous example?
I always enjoy when people that I don't even know tell me what my habits are or aren't.
Hmm What does this mean? Are you abusing the power of the mods? That is silly over the fact he proved you wrong in multiple ways, a person should admit to there faults so they can grow we all have faults.
Really Vorian ? You proved that the "old school gamer" is the majority? He did that once? Or as you say many times? Yeah I didn't think so. But nice try and really cute of you to Your own defense .
No im not abusing the power of the mods I just know the rules been slapped a few times myself. Now I have never told someone they are not intelligent but I don't think trying to be intelligent by not quoting and saying a person isn't intelligible doesn't change the fact (I guess you two don't like facts so you may not understand this part) it's against the rules.
There is proof that they are not in the minority though, but to be honest there is no proof either way and you didnt provide any proof either, and to be honest you come off as childish when you talk this way, you dont have experience with these mmorpgs so how do you even know? Maybe try going out in the real world and having a mature conversation with adults with different opinions and it might help you discuss things better behind a keyboard.
Id much rather take his side then yours.
Still closer to the "old" design than newer games, even with the changes. You are saying they like the newer design MMOs BETTER than something that is closer to old school?
These words are so true. The current release of MMORPGs don't really fit the criteria that older games forged, but what that difference is is hard to define. Maybe the simplest explanation is that the current crop of MMORPGs lack soul or intent to produce an engaging world for players to explore.
I am inclined to agree, where is the love and thought?
Why don't you just post on Vorian7? Oh wait been proven wrong too many times in two days? Trying to start over with a new account? Well good luck with that.
Hey I'm just asking my you don't post on Vorian7?
It it was kind of a giveaway when your first post was a QQ about one of your (vorian7) post got deleted and you defended every post he made in a matter of minutes. I'd recommend using a little more discretion on your next alt.
Unless you have facts I suggest you just stop, this is just getting annoying now.
Who you kidding both moonbound777 and vorian7 (is 7 your favorite number) don't deal in facts. And what I just laid out is more factual then how you feel "old school gamers" are the majority.