I'm confused because I want to say the OP brought up an economist for in-game economy, yet I see everyone talking about cash shop and real life economy. So, what exactly are we talking about?
I see nothing wrong with developing a strong economic structure for MMO's. Can't say it enough, but a lot of games end up ridiculously flawed because people become billionaires so to speak in the first year of an MMO, thus making the game virtually unbearable for new gamers, having to deal with over priced AH items.
Probably because if an economist is actually working on an mmorpg, they'll spend more time on the cash shop than in game economy.
Besides anyone can answer the OP's question. Why do raids when people can full loot your gear? They dont'. When is the last time you see interesting PvE raid inside a full loot pvp game.
And I dont' like mmorpg economy to mimic real life economy too much. All the market manipulation etc. I rather the mmorpg I play have less of that.
Either economists or people with related degrees. Is this like the skill cap thread where we're going to get all obtuse and literal about this?
Doesn't a conversation of "every dev team should have an economist" require a functional definition of economist that's a little stricter than "any chump who works on the game economy"? Why even have the topic if our definition is so loose that we consider it true of every game?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
FFA PvP. Because you want to become skilled at PvP and want to be the best geared possible so you can hybrid. Otherwise because you rekt someone in BIS gear with your not so BIS gear and are better then that guy LOLOL
Why should I raid for gear when some griefer come crash me?
Because its the best you can craft for your level at that moment, I like being self-sufficient.
I don't understand housing either.
I don't buy it that you need millions of players to make DOTA/LOL/UnrealEngine 4 monetization work. That works because people are greedy and it's not nearly as hard as people make it out to be to make a hat.
Instead developers are greedy and that shit just don't fly with a lot of people looking at the market nowadays.
Yeah they should hire an integer and smart economist.
Raiding for gear is a lot of hard work, very few players would bother to raid in a game with full loot. Spending months getting certain gear only to loose it due to 6 guys jump you just isn't worth it.
Crafting is bad enough in many games, the thing is that getting good gear need to be as challenging no matter if you craft it, get it from a boss or from a player. When zerging the server in a pack is the easiest way to get gear people will do it. The problem with that is that the other types of players will tire and soon you only have the zergers. Then zerging becomes pretty pointless since new gear wont get added to the loot and you have a game with very few players.
I don't think an economist would help here though, you need someone who know what is fun and what isn't. A MMO need to be fun or the players will quit, and it will have to be fun for all the player types you make the game for or you will be wasting your resources putting raids in a game where no-one will run them instead of adding more content that people actually enjoy in your game.
Certain things just don't mix, looting gear from other players and raiding content is one of those.
The question is however what economists know about fun?
Either economists or people with related degrees. Is this like the skill cap thread where we're going to get all obtuse and literal about this?
Doesn't a conversation of "every dev team should have an economist" require a functional definition of economist that's a little stricter than "any chump who works on the game economy"? Why even have the topic if our definition is so loose that we consider it true of every game?
that's quite a leap from what I wrote. good going, narius
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It really depends on what kind of game the developers are aiming to create. I think the chief question is whether a fleshed out economy is something that is integral to the game experience. For games with a lot of player driven trade, having a clear grasp of basic economics is vital, but for something like "Path of Exile" it is far less vital. MMORPG has come to mean a very specific kind of game to a lot of people due to the stale state of MMORPGs for the last ten years. Technically, Guild Wars and Path of Exile are both MMORPGs, but they wouldn't be recognized as such by a lot of current players.
that's quite a leap from what I wrote. good going, narius
That's a convenient way to avoid addressing my post.
The fact stands that most developers don't have a dedicated economist. Only if you loosen the definition to "anyone who works on the economy" could you claim they did. But in that case by definition all games would have an economist and the clear intent of the OP would be lost.
If you feel like I've said anything wrong, cite that part of whichever post and explain why you disagree.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I would tend to think that an ingame economy is about 1:1,000,000 the complexity of the real world economy so having an economist on the full time staff would be a little bit of overkill.
Consulting with one, would definitely be very beneficial.
In theory i agree and am almost sure most dev teams do have them. In practice it's a delicate balance.
The closer they make the economy similar to real life, the worse it is. Our own economy is not a model we should be basing any fantasy world around.
Precisely my point. Every mmorpg should have an economy specialist. But that don't mean mmorpg should mimic real life economics.
Do you want your mmorpg where 1% of the population control 90% of the wealth? And those rich people hording all the wealth from market forecasting. While the most interesting/rewarding pve content is doing boring farm which give rewards like minimal wages in real life?
I certainly dont' want to play a mmorpg like that. That beings said some of the mmorpg are exactly like what I described above.
Your idea of an economist is a bean counter... truth be known, these guys are never doing anything to make *your* day brighter. Anyone who thinks these people are thinking in your best interests is a fool.
Maybe if the economy is a major part of the game; however, I suspect a regular game designer is sufficient in 99% of the cases. There is very little justification to have one full-time.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Comments
Probably because if an economist is actually working on an mmorpg, they'll spend more time on the cash shop than in game economy.
Besides anyone can answer the OP's question. Why do raids when people can full loot your gear? They dont'. When is the last time you see interesting PvE raid inside a full loot pvp game.
And I dont' like mmorpg economy to mimic real life economy too much. All the market manipulation etc. I rather the mmorpg I play have less of that.
Sure that every Dev Team Should have and Economist.
But the one need economist most are those that run the games. (MMO publishers )
They have to change the rate depend on the what happen on server's market .
Sometime play dirty by create gold to buy the item from players or create item to sell in order to get the gold out of game.
Even to the point take part of game as what real GM should do.
Doesn't a conversation of "every dev team should have an economist" require a functional definition of economist that's a little stricter than "any chump who works on the game economy"? Why even have the topic if our definition is so loose that we consider it true of every game?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
In theory i agree and am almost sure most dev teams do have them. In practice it's a delicate balance.
The closer they make the economy similar to real life, the worse it is. Our own economy is not a model we should be basing any fantasy world around.
Raiding for gear is a lot of hard work, very few players would bother to raid in a game with full loot. Spending months getting certain gear only to loose it due to 6 guys jump you just isn't worth it.
Crafting is bad enough in many games, the thing is that getting good gear need to be as challenging no matter if you craft it, get it from a boss or from a player. When zerging the server in a pack is the easiest way to get gear people will do it. The problem with that is that the other types of players will tire and soon you only have the zergers. Then zerging becomes pretty pointless since new gear wont get added to the loot and you have a game with very few players.
I don't think an economist would help here though, you need someone who know what is fun and what isn't. A MMO need to be fun or the players will quit, and it will have to be fun for all the player types you make the game for or you will be wasting your resources putting raids in a game where no-one will run them instead of adding more content that people actually enjoy in your game.
Certain things just don't mix, looting gear from other players and raiding content is one of those.
The question is however what economists know about fun?
that's quite a leap from what I wrote. good going, narius
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It really depends on what kind of game the developers are aiming to create. I think the chief question is whether a fleshed out economy is something that is integral to the game experience. For games with a lot of player driven trade, having a clear grasp of basic economics is vital, but for something like "Path of Exile" it is far less vital. MMORPG has come to mean a very specific kind of game to a lot of people due to the stale state of MMORPGs for the last ten years. Technically, Guild Wars and Path of Exile are both MMORPGs, but they wouldn't be recognized as such by a lot of current players.
That's a convenient way to avoid addressing my post.
The fact stands that most developers don't have a dedicated economist. Only if you loosen the definition to "anyone who works on the economy" could you claim they did. But in that case by definition all games would have an economist and the clear intent of the OP would be lost.
If you feel like I've said anything wrong, cite that part of whichever post and explain why you disagree.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I would tend to think that an ingame economy is about 1:1,000,000 the complexity of the real world economy so having an economist on the full time staff would be a little bit of overkill.
Consulting with one, would definitely be very beneficial.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Precisely my point. Every mmorpg should have an economy specialist. But that don't mean mmorpg should mimic real life economics.
Do you want your mmorpg where 1% of the population control 90% of the wealth? And those rich people hording all the wealth from market forecasting. While the most interesting/rewarding pve content is doing boring farm which give rewards like minimal wages in real life?
I certainly dont' want to play a mmorpg like that. That beings said some of the mmorpg are exactly like what I described above.
Your idea of an economist is a bean counter... truth be known, these guys are never doing anything to make *your* day brighter. Anyone who thinks these people are thinking in your best interests is a fool.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky