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Is down scaling bad?
nolic1
Member UncommonPosts: 716
in Guild Wars 2
So after seeing many posts about the new down scaling I decided to go research it my self to see just how much different it was and found some things that made me wonder even more if it was intended or was supposed to be there in the first place. Check out the link below to see the video I did on it.
Video Link : Guild Wars 2 Down Scaling
I hope you all have your own input for this and see you in game.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
Comments
From my own research you can now make a low level character that has way more of one attribute than a down scaled level 80, while before it didn't happen.
Considering early game power is the way to go and not much else matter, the real low level character as long as it doesn't die will do more damage that a down scaled character. So we have a glass cannon (real low level) vs a well rounded character (down scaled).
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
^ This.
It doesn't encourage friends to play with someone with a high level character that CAN'T just WTF PWN everything low level.
That's why we went to a different title. I'm not going to say which as I hate when someone is in a forum for game A, and won't stop talking about game B. Such bad taste.
I do not understand how it makes you weaker. You scale from 80 to 20 in a zone 20-25 and fluctuates as you move in and out of areas throughout the map. You are not weaker than any mob or difficult for you to kill if you were actually at level 20.
If you are just talking about being level 80 and just face rolling level 20 mobs. What’s the point in that?
The point would be that some of us enjoy the gameplay of face rolling any mobs.
Luckily other games/companies are more than willing to offer it.
gw2 in future will have only level 80 zones like hot..basically no more leveling..all the content in the future including hot will be 80 only.
you just need world completion for crafting legendary weapons..and for that you are strong enough..so do not worry about it..
So here is the other video I did that shows a little more on how the new down scaling works its also kind of fun to do naked play through of content now that I have tested it.
Down Scaling part 2
Hope you see what I mean now its not that bad it really makes you feel equal to players in the other areas now. Next I would love to try a naked dungeon run to see how much different it would be.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
Downscaling is a blessing in mmos. Regardless of your level/gear you still have a challenge wherever you go.
Low level zones become wasted resources in mmos because it is inevitable that those zones will be empty when not enough new players/alts are being made. Downscaling keeps low level zones persistent between players of all levels.
Sure adding more new zones is always great, but that doesnt mean existing lower level zones have to be forgotten, mind as well remove them from the game if there is no downscaling.
EDIT: and without downscaling, then why not remove levels from the game? it has the same possitive effect of making every zone challenging regardless of player progression.
Yes there are many others to choose from that all pretty much take a similar approach with each other in regards to general MMO mechanics. I'm glad there is at least ONE MMO that does things differently.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
If you indeed have a lvl 80 in GW2, and the character does indeed feel weak to you in lower levels, then you really don't know how to play your character at the slightest bit.
I could lick my keyboard with my eyes closed and control my mouse with my toes and still go through downscaled areas with ease.
Of course there is no way for me to prove that you do not have a lvl 80 or for you to prove that you have one for that matter, but something tells me you said that becuase you read it from someone else on the internetz, who read it from someone else, who read it from someone else, and so on, and so on....
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I love it, and think it's one of the best features of the game. When I'm playing with my level 14 friend on my level 80, it doesn't feel like I'm a god, it feels like I'm on par with my buddy. Which makes it all the more fun and exciting to play together. Then again, I'm not a player that focuses 100% on end game or pvp. I enjoy the journey...
Different strokes.....
Realistic to what exactly? I must be living under a rock.
If you want immersion in GW2 there is a lot of it. play a Celestial Eng build.
Didn't CoH have this feature? could have sworn they did, it was such a long time ago.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I'm sorry, but if I really have to explain how its unrealistic that I become more or less powerful based on where I'm standing in the world, you are obviously only asking to white knight for the game.
Good vid man, and you're absolutely right.
However, the problem w/ GW2 is that Anet is essentially stuck in a Catch-22 situation.
They have designed (and like to design) games that are not based around the typical vertical progression models. However, the majority of gamers are still hooked on that type of design. It's why nearly every game nowadays has some kind of arbitrary leveling system (shooters, racing games, etc.).
So, as you're vid points out, the levels are mostly there as an illusion. They cater to that sense of progression, without really affecting gameplay. This is both good and bad, because on the one hand they help bring more players into the game; but on the other they mask what would otherwise be a fairly seamless experience (in being able to play w/ friends).
You also get people (like some of the other posters in this thread), who are used to that artificial power curve, and don't like when a game appears to take it away from them. Even though, as you point out in your video, the differences really aren't that severe.
- Personally, I would prefer the game to not have levels, but I also know that would throw a lot of people off. The amount of "what am I supposed to do in this game!?!" 'anything you want' "I don't get it!" would increase, which is really unfortunate. That said, you are correct in that they have the setup to where they could normalize all the levels without affecting gameplay much.
I kind of agree which is why Guild Wars 2 really isn't a major game for me.
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There's been a lot of QOL and systems improvements over the years, but the base gameplay is more or less the same.
The thing is, you're never actually weaker when downscaled. If anything you're actually a bit stronger, because you have access to more tools (skills / traits) than someone does who is actually at that lvl. Furthermore (though it seems to have gotten tweaked in the latest patch) it was only the highest end gear that skewed the power curve (again, making you stronger than normal, not weaker), because exotic / ascended gear gave you stats higher than what would be available for someone at that lvl.
That said, everything else is completely subjective. The game having lvls at all is essentially a smokescreen, because the game really doesn't need to have them. They are literally only there to give a false sense of progression (for the gamers that insist on needing lvls to 'feel stronger'). When you get downscaled in the game (and this was true at launch), you're not actually getting weaker at all. The numbers may not seem as flashy, but if you're 1 shotting 80s, you'll still be 1 shotting lvl 10s. But instead of doing 3k dmg on a 2700 hp mob, you'll be doing 300 dmg on a 270hp mob.
Well, downscaling in GW2 is more about attempting to keep the feeling of a living and breathing world and immersion.
In many mmos there's major threats in certain areas, let's take Zalazane in the Echo Isles in WoW for example. For years the Darkspear Trolls were kicked out of their homeland due to Zalazane having control of the area. When they added the retaking of Echo Isles event in WoW you would see comments on the forums and in chat about how we're finally taking an area back as max level toons from a level 10 "boss". Sure the event Zalazane was a much higher level (more powerful), but the argument was still valid from an immersion stand point. Why the hell didn't one of our max level characters just walk in there and kill the level 10 guy holding the area for years?
The actual intent was that Zalazane was indeed extremely dangerous and it took the might of the Horde to reclaim the area (same goes for the retaking of parts of Gnomeregon for the Alliance side). Per the story he was holding the ancestral lands and there wasn't much the Darkspears could do about it on their own. Downscaling in WoW could have played into the story more and would've seemed a lot less ridiculous that a level 10 could be such a problem.
In GW2, my character isn't "weaker" in relative terms in comparison to how the world works. From a gameplay standpoint, yes my stats are reduced, but I still have all of the knowledge (traits, skills) and my gear. Any of my level 80 toons can wtfpwn low level mobs, but if I want to make a challenge for myself I can waltz into a pack of a dozen or so mobs and have to actually pay attention to what I am doing, as opposed to my level 100 toon being afk in Durotar with a raptor forever attacking me and doing nothing to me at all.
Downscaling is a much more "realistic" mechanic in my opinion.
So, I finally watched your video. I see where you are coming from, but there's some good reasons why there is leveling in GW2. Additionally, I don't think your argument here is about downscaling, but rather your argument is about why is there leveling in GW2.
First, leveling is a familiar tool that's been used in gaming for decades now. Remember that ANet had to add in Hearts to lower level areas in order to get people to even participate in the events during early playtests. Just having the dynamic events going on around them wasn't enough to get them to do it, because "they didn't have a quest for it". Having a sense of progression is very meaningful to many people as well.
Second, levels are a good way to spread out the populations. If GW2 never had levels a good portion of the population might have just gone strait to Orr and just zerged their way through events for gold farming, gear farming (for salvaging) and the only people left in the rest of the world would be the explorers and crafters since there is a progression system to crafting based upon materials.
Third, levels are used to deliver trait points and skill points. Imagine if you had to go around and hit Hero Challenges all over the world on every single character you make? The leveling system in GW2 ensures that characters can be built via all of the activities available to us. Giving us all traits and skills at new character creation would be pointless since you're killing the initial progression system of leveling a toon. Hell, I have enough gold and resources in GW2 where if I made a new character in a non-leveling system, they would be 100% geared and built the second they were made. That would negate many of the reasons why we play these games, since you could essentially not play a character to level one. Granted, with enough Tomes of Knowledge you can do that now, but that does require some effort on your part.
I understand, I think, your premise. However, I really don't agree with it at all.