A good indication of the decaying state of the genre is when you have to resort to such simplistic arguments to defend MMORPGS as a valuable experience..
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
I agree with the list. But I feel that MMO's have failed terribly because of #1. I don't feel like I'm part of a world at all, I feel like I'm a (un)willing script.
Do this to get that, rinse and repeat.
Funnel over here
Then funnel over there
Keep funneling until end game. Stop. New content and funnels to come.
Here's your gear.
Here's some new gear.
Here's some newer gear.
You're meaningful. Just like the other 50,000 characters just like you.
No one remembers you except your RL friends unless you're at the top of a leader board.
When your RL friends leave, if you're not topping a leader board, no one remembers you.
You're talking to a BOT.
Why are you bothering talking to anyone, get in world chat and talk your fav music.
You've reached End Game, you've conquered End Game, you've done mighty deeds and become a great hero(in). You have saved the world. And yet, you are a blur, a drop of water in a sea of likeness. Well done! Whoever you are.
I wish we had a like buttons on these forums.
Unfortunately for us, this won't be changing soon, because too many gamers needs their hand holding, repeatable content and "achievements" to tell them what they are supposed to be doing in a game otherwise they start to complain there is nothing to do.
How much of that do people actually see in MMOs these days? 4 having the choice to solo, okay that is fairly common now.
5. Interacting. Depends on the game, but most games these days seem like they are designed to limit interaction as opposed to encouraging it.
3. Persistent Character Development? Most new MMOs feel more shallow than most solo games these days when it comes to character development, both stat wise and lore wise. If you are into character development, I'm not sure MMOs are where it's at.
2. Immersive Atmosphere? I think the mere existence of other players break any chance of this ever being a reality in an MMO, because right when you are getting immersed some guy is going to run by naked spamming anal jokes. MMOs have a really hard time with this one in general. They can do beautiful environments and sound, but there is a lot more to immersion than that.
1. Being part of a world... Dynamic and always changing... Players maybe... Guilds, small groups are what makes mmos great but you don't feel like a part of a world, you feel part of a guild. WoW used to have this at the world level, people interacted, most MMOs I have played interaction seems limited to isolated guilds/groups of people as opposed to a feeling of world participation. As far as a dynamic changing world goes, I don't really know of any. Most worlds are static with respawning events, world is only changed via predetermined plot lines.
I'm probably just a cynic, but I haven't felt any really excitement for the latest round of MMOs at all. Some are good time killers, but they feel more like solo games that I have to log in to play.
Unfortunaly atleast in my experiance the interacting with other players has changed into the more common multiplayer aspect, not so much about interacting but more about getting the "job" done. Your reflection is the way I felt in the old...I still interact/being social in today's MMORPG's but the interaction is often mostly towards the person sitting behind the computer and not so much with the character we're playing. Not that I am that much of a roleplayer but when I interact I do wish to interact in my persona ingame.
4) But Having the Choice Not To
I see this different, to choose not to would mean to me I should be able to enjoy the game in many possible way's ranging from full combat professions to full none-combat professions. The choice to choose to be unique has also faded.....for me another point for less love for MMO's
3) Persistent Character Development
Kinda my only addiction currently....
2) Immersive Atmospheres
Actually for me after WoW this genre felt less alive and it's actually singleplayer games that feel more alive regardless MMO have other players. Since the players don't make the world anymore since everything is mostly combat oriented which make them often feel like just regular online games. In a MMO atleast for me there is nothing more immersive then seeing the ingame community being able to mold/impact the world.
I mean what really changes when you login the next day in today's MMO's?
1) Being Part of a World
I honostly have never felt that since Star Wars Galaxies.
Sorry for being so negative and I wished I could love today's MMO's that much again.....
Still enjoy them but more inline in how I enjoy singleplayer games a your 5 points are actually the points for less love the way I see/experiance them. And as said many times I wished MMORPG would go beyond that I already can find in other genre's. In my experiance Meridian59/UO and Star Wars Galaxies have done that for me.
Then again I understand I am a minority and full well understand those who enjoy today's MMO's for what they deliver.
What killed MMOs for me is that grind to death, 24/7 playing and/or spend money if you want to have any relevance in pvp. Other than that theres PVE but once you play through story and quests that's pretty much it. What is left is PvP if you cant keep up with gear, time and wallet and find all that still to be worth it and fun. Not to mention cheats, exploits, bots, gold sellers, crappy MMOs customer service and (sometimes) publisher scams, low blows etc. I found, in my opinion, its not worth it or fun anymore.
Originally posted by Sidad What killed MMOs for me is that grind to death, 24/7 playing and/or spend money if you want to have any relevance in pvp. Other than that theres PVE but once you play through story and quests that's pretty much it. What is left is PvP if you cant keep up with gear, time and wallet and find all that still to be worth it and fun. Not to mention cheats, exploits, bots, gold sellers, crappy MMOs customer service and (sometimes) publisher scams, low blows etc. I found, in my opinion, its not worth it or fun anymore.
That grind to have relevance(in either pvp or pve), imo that's what gives a player the feeling of accomplishment whether it be in levels or stats or skill points, otherwise you may as well just buy a pre-leveled character ala WoW so you can just go out and take on the worst of the worst before you've even learned how to wield that weapon properly. Plus doing that grind is how you meet and form friendships with the other players, especially if you're grinding mobs that might be quite difficult for your class/abilities. The same goes for acquiring all the armor and weapons fighters need to be relevant, or the tools for the less combatant oriented players like fishing rods, picks, hammers, saws and so on, do you plan to just ptw or earn your gold ingame to afford the weapons/armor/tools you need?
As for being bored with playing through a game's story and quests, umm that's why pre-WoW players think WoW destroyed the genre because anyone that grew up playing it seems to know no other way to play a pve mmorpg. There can be more to a pve centric game than quests...
Whatever happened to a basic story line consisting of a "greater threat" that requires the whole world of players to contribute and therefore be relevant in some manner, even just by making bandages so the fighters/explorers can better traverse the world in search of other civilizations to help keep the "greater threat" from destroying their world? This opens up the ability for players to make their own content by forging new towns, creating special forces to help protect the weak but necessary and relevant players that do not specialize in fighting skills but rather enjoy playing support roles, heck even the stray cats help by keeping the mice undercontrol so they don't eat or destroy stored items in the town's granaries, libraries, etc. WoW tried with their war efforts campaigns but then they seemed to give up.
ie. Miners/blacksmiths, loggers/carpenters all can provide necessary mats to keep a town/city's fortifications strong and in repair so it can withstand attacks from the roving bands of whatever that threaten your civilization. Farmers/gatherers/tailors/leatherworkers/blacksmiths can all contribute with needed armor/bandages and alchemists/cooks/fishers with medicine/food/drink to keep the inhabitants/fighters strong. The spinoff from a healthy, strong population can be a bigger/better town, with better facilities like libraries, museums, more shops and artisans to teach more skills, etc. plus more time for those extracurricular activites like treasure hunting, races, games, arenas, so the residents have more to do than just help keep their town/city safe.
Anyway, it seems to me that those who play to pvp simply want to win, win, and win some more and they don't always care if it's a "world" environment or a ladder game(or who they have to stab in the back to get there) as long as they can get there fast and of course win the "final" battle, whereas most pver's want to be part of a world, though not necessarily part of a cliche(guild, company, etc) in that world, and don't mind if the journey to have explored it all and beaten every "boss"(many don't even want to take up a sword/bow/staff) takes a whole lifetime, as long as they feel relevant in it. Am I wrong?
Very true, and I think what's missed most is that these games are trans-generational and are socially equalizing playgrounds for gamers from schoolyard to boardrooms, and it's important that the current dominate generation that most critique and carp at these games not let their sometimes jaded veteran perspectives crimp the newbie gamer's thrill of their first MMOs. Myself, I'd love to see what we called "golden oldies" to ever have an active niche and even allow sharp spirits to recycle and soup-up such games to the modern day.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
I think this sums up the list of reasons for I don't play mmo's anymore.
5. Can interact with other players - mostly trolls and griefers.
4. But can choose not to - so why it's a mmo then?
3. Persistent character development - Hi horizontal progression and not feeling you can ever "beat the game"
2. Immersive game world - really. I feel the opposite. I feel like eevry mmo these days is bland and dull and encourages to not even see the world and hide in instances/hubs/garrisons/etc.
1. Being part of the world - Somewhat agreeing in that there is certain charm in being known within a community. To me it doesn't outweight all the rest of the crap, though, and generally it's not worth the effort.
For me the future (and present) is in cooperative games whether they're online or offline doesn't matter much. Play with people, yes, but the people I choose to, not every troll and 12 year unloved kid that wish to inflict themselves upon me.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
One of my favorite things about MMOs is getting in at launch and watching as the game evolves over the course of it's life. It's fun to watch the game mature and change, and also a unique experience to share that with a bunch of other people that are all experiencing the same things for the first time.
Comments
A good indication of the decaying state of the genre is when you have to resort to such simplistic arguments to defend MMORPGS as a valuable experience..
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
I wish we had a like buttons on these forums.
Unfortunately for us, this won't be changing soon, because too many gamers needs their hand holding, repeatable content and "achievements" to tell them what they are supposed to be doing in a game otherwise they start to complain there is nothing to do.
How much of that do people actually see in MMOs these days? 4 having the choice to solo, okay that is fairly common now.
5. Interacting. Depends on the game, but most games these days seem like they are designed to limit interaction as opposed to encouraging it.
3. Persistent Character Development? Most new MMOs feel more shallow than most solo games these days when it comes to character development, both stat wise and lore wise. If you are into character development, I'm not sure MMOs are where it's at.
2. Immersive Atmosphere? I think the mere existence of other players break any chance of this ever being a reality in an MMO, because right when you are getting immersed some guy is going to run by naked spamming anal jokes. MMOs have a really hard time with this one in general. They can do beautiful environments and sound, but there is a lot more to immersion than that.
1. Being part of a world... Dynamic and always changing... Players maybe... Guilds, small groups are what makes mmos great but you don't feel like a part of a world, you feel part of a guild. WoW used to have this at the world level, people interacted, most MMOs I have played interaction seems limited to isolated guilds/groups of people as opposed to a feeling of world participation. As far as a dynamic changing world goes, I don't really know of any. Most worlds are static with respawning events, world is only changed via predetermined plot lines.
I'm probably just a cynic, but I haven't felt any really excitement for the latest round of MMOs at all. Some are good time killers, but they feel more like solo games that I have to log in to play.
5) Interacting With Other Players
Unfortunaly atleast in my experiance the interacting with other players has changed into the more common multiplayer aspect, not so much about interacting but more about getting the "job" done. Your reflection is the way I felt in the old...I still interact/being social in today's MMORPG's but the interaction is often mostly towards the person sitting behind the computer and not so much with the character we're playing. Not that I am that much of a roleplayer but when I interact I do wish to interact in my persona ingame.
4) But Having the Choice Not To
I see this different, to choose not to would mean to me I should be able to enjoy the game in many possible way's ranging from full combat professions to full none-combat professions. The choice to choose to be unique has also faded.....for me another point for less love for MMO's
3) Persistent Character Development
Kinda my only addiction currently....
2) Immersive Atmospheres
Actually for me after WoW this genre felt less alive and it's actually singleplayer games that feel more alive regardless MMO have other players. Since the players don't make the world anymore since everything is mostly combat oriented which make them often feel like just regular online games. In a MMO atleast for me there is nothing more immersive then seeing the ingame community being able to mold/impact the world.
I mean what really changes when you login the next day in today's MMO's?
1) Being Part of a World
I honostly have never felt that since Star Wars Galaxies.
Sorry for being so negative and I wished I could love today's MMO's that much again.....
Still enjoy them but more inline in how I enjoy singleplayer games a your 5 points are actually the points for less love the way I see/experiance them. And as said many times I wished MMORPG would go beyond that I already can find in other genre's. In my experiance Meridian59/UO and Star Wars Galaxies have done that for me.
Then again I understand I am a minority and full well understand those who enjoy today's MMO's for what they deliver.
That grind to have relevance(in either pvp or pve), imo that's what gives a player the feeling of accomplishment whether it be in levels or stats or skill points, otherwise you may as well just buy a pre-leveled character ala WoW so you can just go out and take on the worst of the worst before you've even learned how to wield that weapon properly. Plus doing that grind is how you meet and form friendships with the other players, especially if you're grinding mobs that might be quite difficult for your class/abilities. The same goes for acquiring all the armor and weapons fighters need to be relevant, or the tools for the less combatant oriented players like fishing rods, picks, hammers, saws and so on, do you plan to just ptw or earn your gold ingame to afford the weapons/armor/tools you need?
As for being bored with playing through a game's story and quests, umm that's why pre-WoW players think WoW destroyed the genre because anyone that grew up playing it seems to know no other way to play a pve mmorpg. There can be more to a pve centric game than quests...
Whatever happened to a basic story line consisting of a "greater threat" that requires the whole world of players to contribute and therefore be relevant in some manner, even just by making bandages so the fighters/explorers can better traverse the world in search of other civilizations to help keep the "greater threat" from destroying their world? This opens up the ability for players to make their own content by forging new towns, creating special forces to help protect the weak but necessary and relevant players that do not specialize in fighting skills but rather enjoy playing support roles, heck even the stray cats help by keeping the mice undercontrol so they don't eat or destroy stored items in the town's granaries, libraries, etc. WoW tried with their war efforts campaigns but then they seemed to give up.
ie. Miners/blacksmiths, loggers/carpenters all can provide necessary mats to keep a town/city's fortifications strong and in repair so it can withstand attacks from the roving bands of whatever that threaten your civilization. Farmers/gatherers/tailors/leatherworkers/blacksmiths can all contribute with needed armor/bandages and alchemists/cooks/fishers with medicine/food/drink to keep the inhabitants/fighters strong. The spinoff from a healthy, strong population can be a bigger/better town, with better facilities like libraries, museums, more shops and artisans to teach more skills, etc. plus more time for those extracurricular activites like treasure hunting, races, games, arenas, so the residents have more to do than just help keep their town/city safe.
Anyway, it seems to me that those who play to pvp simply want to win, win, and win some more and they don't always care if it's a "world" environment or a ladder game(or who they have to stab in the back to get there) as long as they can get there fast and of course win the "final" battle, whereas most pver's want to be part of a world, though not necessarily part of a cliche(guild, company, etc) in that world, and don't mind if the journey to have explored it all and beaten every "boss"(many don't even want to take up a sword/bow/staff) takes a whole lifetime, as long as they feel relevant in it. Am I wrong?
Persistent character building is really my number 1.
I like to feel that I'm investing time into a character, and enjoying that investment and the fruits of this labor.
I like to know that in a year or two years or whatever the game will grow and expand and as such my character will grow and expand.
Good Article!
Very true, and I think what's missed most is that these games are trans-generational and are socially equalizing playgrounds for gamers from schoolyard to boardrooms, and it's important that the current dominate generation that most critique and carp at these games not let their sometimes jaded veteran perspectives crimp the newbie gamer's thrill of their first MMOs. Myself, I'd love to see what we called "golden oldies" to ever have an active niche and even allow sharp spirits to recycle and soup-up such games to the modern day.
Max
(Waiting on Neverwinter to go VR)
Double post
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
I think this sums up the list of reasons for I don't play mmo's anymore.
5. Can interact with other players - mostly trolls and griefers.
4. But can choose not to - so why it's a mmo then?
3. Persistent character development - Hi horizontal progression and not feeling you can ever "beat the game"
2. Immersive game world - really. I feel the opposite. I feel like eevry mmo these days is bland and dull and encourages to not even see the world and hide in instances/hubs/garrisons/etc.
1. Being part of the world - Somewhat agreeing in that there is certain charm in being known within a community. To me it doesn't outweight all the rest of the crap, though, and generally it's not worth the effort.
For me the future (and present) is in cooperative games whether they're online or offline doesn't matter much. Play with people, yes, but the people I choose to, not every troll and 12 year unloved kid that wish to inflict themselves upon me.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile