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Star Citizen vs. Line of Defense - Let's compare
Warley
Member UncommonPosts: 508
Since providing facts and logic doesn't work maybe videos might help people:
Arena Commander (a Star Citizen module):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxb3ONfkWNk
Or, simply look over a few videos:
https://www.youtube.com/results?filters=month&lclk=month&search_query=arena+commander
Line of Defense:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/266620/
As you know, Star Citizen is being developed by CIG, is the biggest crowdfunded project ever, and is helmed by Chris Roberts (who has developed several critically acclaimed games). Even his often criticized venture with Digital Anvil produced a game, Starlancer, that has a Metacritic score of 78 and sold over 700k copies.
Line of Defense is being developed by 3000AD, and is helmed by Derek Smart, someone who took six years to develop his first game that was released in 1994. To compare, World of Warcraft (a far more advanced game) took less time, and was arguably a more complete, less buggy mess than Battlecruiser.
Comments
http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/30/8871167/star-citizens-fps-module-delayed-indefinitely
more articles... star citizen fps module delayed indefinitely.... whats wrong, did they run out of the 85 million dollars they reaised paying family members too much money and mismanaging the game...
trying to figure out what this proves and why it matters considering the issue is not about who can develop games faster or who has better games but what is actually happening to the millions they have made off of selling people assets for a game that isnt finished. people should stay on topic.
Also no MMO that got this kind of money or press sold assets with prices even as high as thousands. No AAAMMO in history actually. This SC shit is just greedy. IMO of course. I know Im not paying more than 60-100 for any game.. 100 is even stretching and even then im expecting a special edition for my money. SC is charging people for ALPHA ships in a ALPHA version of a game.. this is where the uproar is coming from. They made millions and people want to know where its going. The amount of money is Motion Film level. This is where the concerns are coming from.. not who can develop what game the best or whatever.. nobody gives a fuck about that.. the truth of the situation and Dsmarts point of view are actually very valid. Dont detract.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Let's also compare Minecraft to Halo. Or how about we compare Albion Online to World of Warcraft? You can't compare something that was crowdfunded for 85 million dollars, has passed its deadline, and only has a "module" to show for all their development time and money... to an admittedly indie MMO shooter game. It just doesn't make sense.
Even if Line of Defense is junk, which it might be, you still can't compare those two projects to each other. They're not in the same category, with the exception of the fact that they are both in the MMO genre and sci-fi. You can't argue against someone's points against a game by saying that their game isn't very good. That doesn't make what Roberts and his company are doing acceptable or right.
nothing this guy says has been relevant... you think he would have given up by now.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indefinitely
In a letter from Roberts, dated June 27, he cited "technical and gameplay-related issues" that will delay the Star Marine module indefinitely.
"We feel the current build doesn’t feel like it lives up to the standards we’ve want to achieve with Star Citizen [sic]," Roberts wrote. "There are several issues that will need additional time in order to deliver the first iteration of the gameplay we want you to experience. - source (YOUR ARTICLE)
Delayed indefinitely doesn't mean cancelled. Sometimes, developers in the software industry run into 'real technical or gameplay issues' that will take a currently undefined or unknown length of time to fix. So, instead of saying (we'll have it done in three months) then miss that deadline, it's better to say delayed indefinitely until a better understanding of the timetable it will take to release it.
But, I guess, in this case it means mismanagement and not what happens is virtually all games, especially MMO's: technical issues and gameplay issues.
Right, Mr. Dunning-Kruger?
Your voice is a competitor to CIG and has a financial interest in a game that is a competitor to Star Citizen. But, yeah, let's let Derek Smart lead the charge against Star Citizen, because he has such a great industry track record (and we want a self-admitting troll to helm our ship)!
Hah Mr. Psychological Projection is resorting to PSY 100 insults.
2.5 years, 85 million in crowdfunding
1 module of 1 instanced dog fighting map with purchasable ships which you have to pay to get into to show for it
the only other module they had in the works isnt working and delayed indefinitely.
Yeah great management.. clearly a pro team they have going there, considering they arent using a custom engine so 70% of the work was already done for them... give it up already, literally no one agrees with you
How about licensing issues, Hence the VR "not working" as well.?
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
It's reasonable to believe at this point, as a professional, that the money is currently being used to develop Star Citizen.
Besides, no game sold itself as a subscription based game until the early MMO's like Meridian59, The Realm, etc.
No game made money on the crazy idea of being given away for free until those crazy Koreans started importing the idea here.
No AAA MMORPG in history on Star Citizen's level has been as open or provided such early access in the development process to the community as Star Citizen.
All I'm saying is someone who knows better with a vested interest in a competing product is handing out pitchforks to a bunch of people that are clueless to the real scale and development cycle of a MMO.
Sure, there's legitimate concerns, but you guys are backing a horse calling for suing and FTC investigations and shit because people don't know the difference between investments and pledges & gifting... and, again, that horse knows COMPLETELY well the difference, and has a history of abusing various tools to silence critics.
I mean, this is also one big can of irony based upon Derek Smart, his history, and his current actions.
so show proof.
How about the fact that these types of issues HAVE AND ALWAYS WILL crop up in the development cycle of an MMO? People weren't as aware of them as they are now because people that haven't been a part of MMO development weren't made aware of them due to MMO developers keeping this type of shit under tight lip...
Again, and I'm begging you to look up the following: Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Please, i'm trying to help everyone here understand.
I have no f'n interest in Star Citizen, the game itself. I'm a fan of fantasy games. I currently work on a startup software project unrelated to the gaming industry.
This topic interests me because, as an experienced developer, who has worked on games I can see the bullshit being spewed by Derek Smart from a mile away.
He's getting people riled up because he knows people don't understand the MMO development process and all these 'gloom & doom' things people are pointing out left and right are NATURAL ELEMENTS TO ALL MMO's THAT HAVE EVER BEEN CREATED.
ISSUES ALWAYS POP UP IN ALL BIG DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS.
This is an EVEN BIGGER THING with MMO's, one of the hardest and most advanced technological achievements in human history.
Man.... I'm starting to wonder if people are just f'n stupid at this point.
Literally the only stupid person in here is yourself, i've stated many points which counter anything you've said about developement cycle etc... and for a company that apparently has a team of 300 people
releasing 1 unfinished module as an alpha + charging for it and it's content.
delaying another module because they cant get it working right
having 2.5 years and 85 million in funding.
is unacceptable and needs to be accounted for.
NOTHING you say is going to change those facts.
I... don't even know how to address all the distorted statements in this post. Most advanced technological achievements in human history? Really? All it is, is networking data transfer with visual components. The limitations are in our hardware and software. The foundation for MMO's has existed for decades! Ever hear of MUDs?
The limits that exist are in the engine, and the PC's ability to render the content. As someone with some indie dev experience, I can tell you that those are the main issues. The problem with this project, is that its scope is so massive, so over-blown, that there are NO engines out there that are capable of accomplishing what they are claiming to do. And then, there's the issue of whether what they are developing will even be capable of running on current PCs.
If you aren't that familiar with the industry, you should really refrain from making comments about it, how it works, or its history.
First, to address your understanding of Kickstarter, along with crowdfunding in general (you know, someone that actually knows the law, is an attorney, and deals with the gaming industry on that level), and investments:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DanRogers/20150309/238279/Understanding_Your_Kickstarter_Liabilities.php
Secondly, let's have a nice little look at Derek Smart and his history (recent, which doesn't even go into his long history of being a self-admitted troll):
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140217/10000126251/game-dev-derek-smart-again-responds-to-negative-review-making-vague-legal-threats-banning-commenters.shtml
The reason why I'm focusing on Derek Smart a lot is due to the fact that this entire thing is Derek Smart using Star Citizen to draw attention to himself.
So, yeah, let's all back Derek Smart here and ignore, you know, people that practice law and are attorney's, the fact no other industry vet has come forth. Or, the fact that respected game development site hasn't even covered Derek Smart and his blog posts about Star Citizen:
Gamasutra.com
Because, this 'well known' and well respected developer isn't as well respected and cared for by the actual game industry as he wants everyone to think he is.
And, no, this does not address some 'legitimate' concerns of backers, which are real, and some are grounded in reality. However, none of Derek Smart's demands or long rants or smearing of CIG should be taken seriously. Sure, he sprinkles truth in to hook people, but then throws out a ton of misleading, dishonest, or downright lying bs out with it to make people think he's being legitimate.
I'm not sure how not everyone has picked up on this...
That Line of Defense looks ok to me,was there a point here?
Also i might add that numbers don't mean a single thing to me nor should they to anyone,after witnessing the biggest supported pile of crap in Farmville,i would say people will play ANYTHING.
In the Arena Commander video,that is like more Indie stuff.An ugly cockpit with a hud shooting ugly pew pew.They could do a LOT better with that firing animation,geesh with all 3 aspects.
I have yet to see anything from SC that looks good or would entice me to say "looks cool ,i might like to try that game".Where as after seeing that LOD video,first time i heard of that game,it looks encouraging.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
way to try and deflect away from your own lack of rebuttal and direct the argument towards DS again... you have nothing of substance to offer, please delete your account and stop posting.
I know !!
CIG will go tit's up due to financial mismanagement, DS will buy it on the cheap and then fire Chris Roberts !
/Illuminati
I like how everyone is banking on the fact that sometimes features, that are later determined to be technically unfeasible, are currently planned. Then, begin from that, knowing full well that setting that up as the standard of failure for a project like a MMO is a sure way to be right in an argument. This is called poisoning the well.
However, I didn't say it was the most technologically advanced, but let's consider all the following that are required to create an MMO:
- Graphics Engine (one of the hardest pieces of software to create)
- Networking, Player Syncing, path prediction algorithms, collision detection, etc (you have some indie experience, so that makes you an expert on networking -let alone the rest of that list- for an MMO). Yeah, you're not dealing with a simple multiplayer game here.
- Server clusters, distributed computing
- A lot of work with low level languages like C++ and inline use of Assembly
So, some of the stuff is already created (or at least, a basics is there). And, yes, the framework is there, but you're pretending as if there's not years worth of technical work, programming, and what not that goes into a MMO that even already has a 'full' framework specifically made for a MMO (let alone one that doesn't use those as a base to develop from).
Furthermore, and I'm not surprised by this, you don't simply slap Crytek's networking into an MMO and call it a day. Crytek was mainly developed for FPS, with the networking as an option for FPS multiplayers. A FPS multiplayer IS NOT a MMO.
If there were an area of concern, on my end, is how they're going to track real-time FPS collision detection, along with path prediction, without overloading the network and server calls. Handling this client side presents serious security concerns.
oh yeah, and strong security for the game.
First off, DSmart is not the initial one to pose these questions brought to CIG. DSmart is one of the people questioning CIG but he just so happens to have a high profile in the industry. He may not have a leading role in the MMOverse but he has 20 years of (real) experience with it, and a lot of clout. He is giving voice to the voiceless among the vast majority who are comfortable with the status quo, which is very disturbing among the MMO crowd.
A deadline was set and has past (for months), and a module is put on hold and the fanboys are fine with the lip service. I don't understand how that does not raise a brow to backers of Star Citizen. To top it off Chis Roberts has family members in high positions for a game that initially needed $500k in crowd funding but somehow continuously gets kicked back while they collect more money through their website. How does that not bother anyone? It's so easy to talk smack about a game like ArcheAge being a money grab but at least there's something playable with the money I've put into it and I definitely didn't drop a down payment on a house for promises not met.