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Kind of Disappointed with FFXIV
Colt47
Member UncommonPosts: 549
Don't know if anyone else feels this way, but even though Final Fantasy XIV ARR isn't a bad game per se, it just doesn't feel like the game Final Fantasy really deserved. When SE claimed they were going to revive the game and make it work I was excited and decided to dust off the original collectors edition I bought for fourteen dollars at a discount bin. Got to play through the Beta and when 2.0 finally came out I was happy just to be able to play a game that didn't feel completely disfunctional.
Now that I've come back to Heavensward and played to end game, it just feels like the entire revival attempt has resulted in a game using tired out systems, hoping that if it apes the Action MMORPG style popularized by WoW that it will keep itself afloat for a while. They've got a craft system that is just a more complicated version of the simple item factory model used to consume gathered resources, which only exists to justify the gatherers who are nothing but resource factories of their own. The only thing that matters in the game is end game, old dungeons are starting to get abandoned so new players have a harder time playing through them just like in WoW, and roulette is making people aggrivated because they are only doing them to get paid.
When I look back on it all, none of this really makes a good game as much as a familiar and playable one.
Comments
i wish they'd done more with the classes.. 1 role per class feels very cheap and boring.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
The game is first and foremost a JRPG that adopted the core values of a Themepark when it first released in 2.0. My reaction to such was somewhat negative, but I knew it was a step to build in -- and they built on it substantially with frequent and meaty updates the likes of which I've never seen an MMO give before. Story will always be it's #1 concern, though they keep on adding new systems, dungeons, classes, etc. on a frequent basis. For many, it is an ample substitute for Themeparks, especially with the love and care they seem to put into support, and a fair FF game in its own right. Many of the classes are complex, the crafting and gathering are their won classes with their own story and meta (and fully exploring each meta is pretty much a full time job, and they even added progression into Heavensward for it) and overall provides for a market that's truly driven by the players -- you can even set your house into an item shop now with new design options, though I've always felt I was the owner of a store with how much into crafting I've done (I also enjoy games like Recettear).
I believe there is room for improvement with any system, and with any game. Hopefully they will do even more than just put new players at the head of the queue for story dungeons and allow friend to rush them through it with the new feature that allows them to come in with their max level. With how many dungeons/instances they have, numbering perhaps the hundreds by now, the roulette feature -- while still used quite often -- has to split even more resources. Even when someone is ahead of the queue, it may take about 15-30 minutes to get a group for a DPS (though I haven't tried in some time, despite making a new character on monthly / bi-monthly basis for various purposes; been too wrapped up in crafting taking 100% of my time whenever I log in so that I can make 3-10 million a night on average and if the really expensive items don't sell).
One thing I enjoy about that game, is that with pretty much each feature, there is a lot of depth. Complexity. In most cases, even difficulty within reason. Though I have yet to play any Extreme or Savage modes due to my obsession with crafting and making gil. Instead of dumbing most things down in an expansion, they continue to build upon, and don't rearrange skills or rotations, but just add to them. It's a far cry from WoW in that respect, and I think culminates into one of better themepark experiences around -- differing just enough for me to ignore how much I dislike themeparks at present with its new systems and all the things there are to do, which I never have time to do since committing oneself to one aspect is a full time job in of itself. Sadly, even playing as much as I have lately, I've yet to even touch 10% of the game's content, both ARR and Heavensward -- so much gating that I didn't have time to unlock multiple systems or queues or the like. Most optional dungeons have gone untouched. Perhaps, then, that is why it resonates so well with me, personally. It takes time to do things; it takes effort to reach the "meta" of any specific part. Knowledge. Timeframes, time of day, weather, etc. all play into certain aspects as well. Just so much to learn and memorize to be efficient at any one thing it's kind've ridiculous as a whole.
I only hope that they start to make the new player experience even easier and work on the queue system more to help them. Perhaps even change the starting areas and quests a bit. Make Ninja be playable at level one. Perhaps find a way to make the new classes playable at level 30 and stick with that for the next expansion. Fix inventory issues and improve housing even more. Make personal housing more viable. Perhaps give it it's own system rather than just a lesser guild house. Even if it's instanced in its own right or something to do so. Or phased like in Black Desert.
Would be a nightmare to balance, as they saw with Arcanist / Scholar / Summoner.Some good suggestions -- should bring them up on the forums. Though as a whole, I think crafting is fine as it is. While I mentioned it's all I do due to it's complexities and time consuming nature, it also helps keep the economy the way it is (that and the various systems behind it, material acquisition via dungeons / tomes / gathering / primals / weather / day and night cycle / treasure chests / guild ships / etc.) in that the more you have to do, the less people will want to do it. It really is a full time job, and people have to decide if they want to be a full time crafter (which they should be able to be since it is its own class with story / gear and such) and make gil, or be a gatherer, or adventurer, etc. Despite it enabling you to make millions a day when you've spent the time getting to the top, very few spend the time to do such.
Though with that said, melding still makes a lot of money for people who just play the content and do the dungeons / raids. There were items and materials that could only be gathered by adventurers and gatherers that cost 25+ million gil the first month and still have a hefty price on them for crafters to buy. In addition, I still gather a lot of my own items -- or use my high beast tribe reputation to get them at a discount, or use my retainers to fetch said items for me. In most cases, items don't require other items to be made. That's a rarity, in truth. When that does happen, I usually favorite the prerequisite so that it's always there. But it's always up to the crafter to find ways to make things more efficient in terms of time.
To each their own.
Many, many people enjoy having 1 role per class, because they enjoy playing that one role, and like the idea that every skill they learn focuses on improving that one specific style/role.
Also, you're leaving out the fact that you can switch back to your base Class as you wish, which opens up a large amount of cross-class abilities, allowing you to customize how you play it.
That's the whole point of the Class/Job system.
Classes are meant to be very flexible and allow for more variety in skill sets and playstyles via access to cross-class skills from many different classes, DoM and DoW alike. They can effectively perform abilities from just about any other class, from melee type attacks, to ranged type attacks, to healing, to raising/resurrecting.
Jobs are very specific and are intended more for group-centric gameplay, where they take on a specific role. They lose some flexibility/choice of cross-class abilities in favor of powerful Job-specific skills.
For example, look at the cross-class abilities a Gladiator can get access to at this page.
If you're a GW2 player who's bought into this idea that "the Trinity is dead", then I can see how having a focused, role-specific setup could be problematic. However, GW2's system didn't quite latch on the way many thought it would (predicting it would change how MMOs were made, would be the death of the Trinity, and other such silliness), as people found they actually prefer having a more defined, specific role to play.
But again, to each their own.
i actually prefer the old WoW approach of things where you have several talent trees that help define your role. like a Warrior having a tank role and 2 different dps roles to pick from.
and ffxiv chose to make all the classes/jobs that i usually go for tanks.. so yeah that's not for me.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
Fair enough.
Although, aren't talent trees just another way of approaching the "1 role per class" setup you don't like?
Where you're either Fire or Ice or Arcane, but not all three at once to mix and match as you prefer? And at the end of a day, isn't a Mage (again, for example), always going to be filling essentially the same role? Isn't that still "one class, one role"? It's not like you're going to suddenly be healing, or tanking for a group as a Mage... at least not deliberately.
As I recall, Druid is the only exception to that, and that's through their animal forms.
I mean, once you spec into one of those trees, how you play the class is entirely affected, and there's some tedium/expense to switch to a different tree, no?
Maybe they've changed that since I last played, but I don't recall being able to freely switch between talent trees.
So, I really don't see how WoW's setup, in any of its variations, doesn't fall under the 1 class, 1 role thing you take issue with.
you've always been able to switch between the trees.. and sure some just fill the role of dps but they come with 3 different ways to do it.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
It's the only mmo I'm subbed to and play. I find the crafting/gathering a chore, but enjoyable as well. The game is fine for me. I typically hate eastern made mmo's, but don't mind this one. It's lore is well done and I don't mind the combat mechanics (once i git used to the long global CD). My highest toon is level 48 and I have never had a problem getting into a dungeon. AS a Bard, I probably avg no more than 5 minutes in que. Even faster if your a tank or healer.
Game is not for everyone, but considering my alternatives, it's what I'm sticking with.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I know you've always been able to switch between trees. I said as much. I just said it was with a bit of tedium and/or expense to do so.
But to your post... "different ways to do it" wasn't your complaint.
You're shifting your argument here.
Your original, specific complaint was "one class, one role".
In WoW, no matter how you're spec'd, you're still performing the same role, just with a different rotation and different spells. Regardless of which tree you choose to do down, you're still a DPS, or Healer, or Tank.. You're still the same role.
A Mage, regardless of which tree you go down, will always be a DPS, etc.
So, WoW's setup is very much 1 Class, 1 Role, by your own definition. So, there's a bit of cognitive dissonance going on in you using it as an example of a game that did it well.
even if it is just 1 role you have 3 ways of doing it so lets say one is all about control another is all about area of effect and another is about single target damage that makes it more like you have sub roles in that one role. & other classes can be tank/healer/dps
I had fun once, it was terrible.
In WOW, you respec, in ARR you change jobs, what's the freaking difference. I would argue that you have more choices because you can basically switch to all jobs available. In wow, you have to create a brand new character.
honestly that's like going for a haircut and ending up with a sex change.. if you change jobs you're not even the same class anymore.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
again, what's the difference? in both ways , you change the way you play. Having that class name with a different way of playing that class is exactly what it is, a class in name only.
For the "pure" classes, yes it is one class one role. Rogue, Mage, Necro and Hunter make up the "pure" classes. Every other class is a hybrid and can perform multiple roles depending on spec. Paladins, Monks and Druids can perform all roles depending on spec. Everyone else can either tank+dps or heal+dps. The one class, one role thing doesn't apply for the majority of the classes available in WoW. Just wanted to clear that up a bit.
The one class, one role thing was a problem I had in FFXIV ARR as well. Especially when I was playing, the tank I liked to play was a Warrior, but they were heavily outshined by the Paladin. I also enjoyed the playstyle of the Warrior and would've liked a DPS role for the warrior in order to play the class I enjoyed the most. Not having multiple outlets of role types for a single class can be detrimental for a game.
I would say any design decision can be detrimental for a game. You make one person happy, another person is unhappy. You cannot please everyone. What you feel is good for a game may not be good for the game as you think.
So then you should be perfectly happy to accept that they didn't like what FFXIV did in that area and move on.
What? Dude can you make any less sense with that rediculous comment? Get a clue.
This whole argument feels like a childish stubborn attempt to not see things from another point of view. Your comparison is flawed, but you continue to insist that there's something to it. In another game, you might have a Warrior that could be a Tank sometimes and a DPS at other times. In this game, you could just play a Warrior when you want to be a Tank, and, let's say, Lancer when you want to be DPS. If you don't like Mitigation Tanking but prefer Absorption Tanking, then switch to the Paladin, or Dark Knight.
Yes, you have to level these classes separately, and have to gear separately (in some cases), but that's not really different from having to carry Tank gear and DPS gear, but instead of having limited flexibility, i.e. Warrior can only Tank or DPS, can't really heal, you have every variation possible available to one character. A bit of work perhaps to work each of your favored roles to max level, but along the way you'll actually learn the nuances of each role, and be much better prepared to handle each varied play style. What you lose in the "instant change convenience" you gain in flexibility; If you decided that you didn't like Tanking anymore and wanted to play a healer instead, you'd be levelling a different character anyway, but nobody would know your name.