Good talk about all you want, its a free country. Its still redundant at this point to talk about this same shit every year and if you are going to talk it.. use actual facts, numbers and information.. which you prob dont have if you arent part of the staff that actually attends the meetings. People are making up numbers off of assumptions about what they heard. Again. Internet culture..so nature of the beast I guess.
Blizzard Entertainment had the largest online player community in its history, with Q2 MAUsB up 50% year-over-year. ThoughWorld of Warcraft® ended the quarter at 5.6 million subscribersC, Blizzard revenues are up year-over-year based on strong performance across the expanding Blizzard portfolio. On June 23, 2015, Blizzard Entertainment released, Fury of Hellfire, one of the largest non-expansion content updates to date for World of Warcraft.Thisnew content helped stabilize the subscriber number towards the end of the quarter. World of Warcraft remains the No. 1 subscription?based MMORPG in the world.
That is actual facts from Blizzard themselves.
Where does it say they "Plummet to 5.6 M"
I didnt see that anywhere actually. They simply said we finished at 5.6 million. Did they say we started at 20M this year and fell to 5.6M? If they did please advise.
There is a thing called quarterly financial reports.
Oddly enough, 1 year has 12 months and if you divide 12 months in quarters, you get 4 groups of 3 months.
So every 3 months they report the number of subscriptions.
On the February 26 of 2015, they released a financial report covering the months of October, November and December 2014.
"At December 31, 2014, the global subscriber* base for World of Warcraft was over 10 million, compared to approximately 7.4 million subscribers at September 30, 2014, and approximately 7.8 million subscribers at December 31, 2013. The increase as compared to September 30, 2014 and December 31, 2013 was proportional to the mix of subscribers in the East and the West and is driven by the launch of the new expansion, World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor in November 2014. In general, the average revenue per subscriber is lower in the East than in the West (where the "East" includes China, Taiwan, and South Korea, and the "West" includes North America, Europe, Australia, and Latin America). As we have seen following past expansion releases, we expect downward pressure on the number of subscribers in 2015. Going forward, Blizzard expects to continue delivering new game content in all regions that is intended to further appeal to the gaming community."
Since December 31 2014 was the last day of the year 2014, the year 2015 started with over 10 million WoW subscribers.
May 6 2015 Blizzard reported the subscription numbers for January, February and March 2015.
"At March 31, 2015, the global subscriber* base for World of Warcraft was approximately 7.1 million, compared to over 10 million subscribers at December 31, 2014, and approximately 7.6 million subscribers at March 31, 2014. As we have seen following past expansion releases, subscribership declined in the first quarter of 2015 following the release of the latest expansion pack, Warlords of Draenor TM , in the fourth quarter of 2014 . The subscriber decline was primarily attributable to the East, with a smaller relative decrease in the West. In general, the average revenue per subscriber is lower in the East than in the West (where the “East” includes China, Taiwan, and South Korea, and the “West” includes North America, Europe, Australia, and Latin America). World of Warcraft ’s revenue performance at constant foreign exchange rates has been more stable, driven by continued strong uptake on value added services, and price increases in select regions, which partially offset subscriber declines, particularly in the East. Going forward, Blizzard expects to continue delivering new game content in all regions that is intended to further appeal to the gaming community."
Today, Blizzard reported the subscriber numbers for the months of April, May and June 2015.
"At June 30, 2015, the global subscriber* base for World of Warcraft was approximately 5.6 million subscribers, compared to approximately 7.1 million subscribers at March 31, 2015, and approximately 6.8 million subscribers at June 30, 2014. As we have seen following past expansion releases, subscribership declined in the first half of 2015 following the release of the latest expansion pack, Warlords of Draenor™, in the fourth quarter of 2014 . The subscriber decline was primarily attributable to the East, with a smaller relative decrease in the West. In general, the average revenue per subscriber is lower in the East than in the West (where the “East” includes China, Taiwan, and South Korea, and the “West” includes North America, Europe, Australia, and Latin America). Going forward, Blizzard expects to continue delivering new game content in all regions that is intended to further appeal to the gaming community, however there could be further declines in the subscriber numbers. While World of Warcraft subscribers have declined, Blizzard’s revenues were up for the three months, as Blizzard further diversifies its business and portfolio of franchises. Revenues from Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft, Heroes of the Storm, and Diablo III contributed to growth in Blizzard revenues and overall gaming community size."
Why do we have these threads for blizzard anyway? They are the exception, not the rule. 0 shits are given I guarantee it. Not with everything they have planned/released. Overwatch, hearthstone, etc. Why do people feel the need to hype it up to "ZOMG WOW IS GONNA SHUT DOWN"?
Question: Who made that chart? Did blizzard personally send you that or is that somebody's "estimate" of what they think is going on or is it factual?
We have to be factual when talking about numbers. Secondly like I said, why does it matter. It makes no sense to me at all to mention WOW's losses when they are still the king of western mmos. The loss didnt change anything and thats if its true. You guys are talking like you were in the boardroom meeting with blizz- activ. Yes we know people quit but we don't know the exact number and to top it off any other game would kill to have even a 5% of what wow had in the last 10 months. Again I just dont see how this is being reported every year like its new. This has been going on for 10 or more years.
Its a cycle like I said and tbh im sick of it. Find something else to discuss guys. Nobody cares that the old rich man lost a couple million dollars..even if its true he is a multibillionaire that created a product(s) that LOTS of people still use/need.
Celebrate his accomplishment not everytime he loses or gains money.. money is the smallest thing in the grand picture of his(wow) legacy.
It's interesting in the same way it would be if Rhonda Rousey started losing fights...
I get it.. but me being a sports fan I would know better than to act like she isnt still Queen of fighting if she had a decade long run of wins.
EDIT: I would say actually "WOW somebody beat her! She had an amazing run.. what a champ." Thats what I would say.
I wouldnt say "Well lets go look at the number of times she almost lost, add those up and divide by the equation of times she threw a counter jab and stumbled because she missed. SUCH and SUCH is landing more Counters than Rhonda so now Rhonda isnt queen anymore her incredible record no longer matters."
What? do you see what im saying?
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Whether going from over 10M to 5.6M in six months - January to June - is a plummet or not (I would say it is) I found the comment they made about the patch 6.2 "interesting" in that they suggested it had "stopped" the drop. Have to go and reread the exact words but Activision Blizzard themselves came pretty close to suggesting that subs were plummeting.
I was predicting WoW would be down to 7mil in Q1 (Was at 7.1mil), and down to 5mil in Q2(Was at 5.6mil).
I was also predicting that ESO will surpass WoW this year already. ESO has more than 2mil active players on the PC side, probably more than 5mil on the Consoles combined. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if ESO has more Subs then WoW as of right now, even though ESO is B2P with optional subscription.
Seriously though Q2 finished "strong" for WoW, they announced the token system and 6.2 was fairly big (even though with the content which should've been in at launch). If they don't come up with something BIG till Q3 ends, they'll be below 3mil "Subs", and less than 1mil subs in the West. There is nothing stopping now the subs from totally falling down till the next expansion.
WoW won't recover from this anymore.
Sorry, but I don't buy that ESO would be larger than Wow but not bother to make a press release of it. I can promise you that you will hear of it if ESO ever becomes the largest MMO, that is not something the publishers would want to keep secret.
Yeah I remember when ESO charged a subscription fee. They managed to have enough active players to support one competitive PvP campaign. Now this guy thinks they surpassed WoW, just hilarious.
I was predicting WoW would be down to 7mil in Q1 (Was at 7.1mil), and down to 5mil in Q2(Was at 5.6mil).
I was also predicting that ESO will surpass WoW this year already. ESO has more than 2mil active players on the PC side, probably more than 5mil on the Consoles combined. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if ESO has more Subs then WoW as of right now, even though ESO is B2P with optional subscription.
Seriously though Q2 finished "strong" for WoW, they announced the token system and 6.2 was fairly big (even though with the content which should've been in at launch). If they don't come up with something BIG till Q3 ends, they'll be below 3mil "Subs", and less than 1mil subs in the West. There is nothing stopping now the subs from totally falling down till the next expansion.
WoW won't recover from this anymore.
Sorry, but I don't buy that ESO would be larger than Wow but not bother to make a press release of it. I can promise you that you will hear of it if ESO ever becomes the largest MMO, that is not something the publishers would want to keep secret.
Yeah I remember when ESO charged a subscription fee. They managed to have enough active players to support one competitive PvP campaign. Now this guy thinks they surpassed WoW, just hilarious.
Don't bother respoding if you have no clue what you're talking about.
They dropped some campaigns because there were too many anyway.
However all of them are full with hours long queue in the prime, good luck getting in.
PS: ESO never really dropped the subscription fee, they just tweaked with the model a bit because of Microsoft's restrictions. What we have now is a hybrid between B2P/P2P, that is leaning more towards P2P.
Good talk about all you want, its a free country. Its still redundant at this point to talk about this same shit every year and if you are going to talk it.. use actual facts, numbers and information.. which you prob dont have if you arent part of the staff that actually attends the meetings. People are making up numbers off of assumptions about what they heard. Again. Internet culture..so nature of the beast I guess.
Blizzard Entertainment had the largest online player community in its history, with Q2 MAUsB up 50% year-over-year. ThoughWorld of Warcraft® ended the quarter at 5.6 million subscribersC, Blizzard revenues are up year-over-year based on strong performance across the expanding Blizzard portfolio. On June 23, 2015, Blizzard Entertainment released, Fury of Hellfire, one of the largest non-expansion content updates to date for World of Warcraft.Thisnew content helped stabilize the subscriber number towards the end of the quarter. World of Warcraft remains the No. 1 subscription?based MMORPG in the world.
That is actual facts from Blizzard themselves.
Where does it say they "Plummet to 5.6 M"
I didnt see that anywhere actually. They simply said we finished at 5.6 million. Did they say we started at 20M this year and fell to 5.6M? If they did please advise.
read my last post. Also read the last sentence of your stanza. Still NO. 1 so what the hell does it matter. Why is this news when it happens almost every single year.. people act like they dont know the cycle of this game by now. Like I said its redundant.
BTW 5.6 Million is incredible for any MMO to have.. esp a decade old one. Again what's the discussion here? What? Somebody made a MMO that has 10M subs or something?
I just dont really see the point of trying to make this a thing every year but again internet gonna internet.
Do you understand that mmorpgs like ESO and GW2 probably have more players in the West than WoW now? WoW most likely has less than 2 million in the west, people you play with. This is a big deal man. WoW is no longer king of the west.
You've got to be kidding me. "Probably" is not the same as "Have".. This is what I mean when I say people go off assumptions.. neither of those games are close to wow's numbers. If they were they would tell everybody, nobody would hide surpassing WOW.. are you kidding?
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I was predicting WoW would be down to 7mil in Q1 (Was at 7.1mil), and down to 5mil in Q2(Was at 5.6mil).
I was also predicting that ESO will surpass WoW this year already. ESO has more than 2mil active players on the PC side, probably more than 5mil on the Consoles combined. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if ESO has more Subs then WoW as of right now, even though ESO is B2P with optional subscription.
Seriously though Q2 finished "strong" for WoW, they announced the token system and 6.2 was fairly big (even though with the content which should've been in at launch). If they don't come up with something BIG till Q3 ends, they'll be below 3mil "Subs", and less than 1mil subs in the West. There is nothing stopping now the subs from totally falling down till the next expansion.
WoW won't recover from this anymore.
Sorry, but I don't buy that ESO would be larger than Wow but not bother to make a press release of it. I can promise you that you will hear of it if ESO ever becomes the largest MMO, that is not something the publishers would want to keep secret.
Yeah I remember when ESO charged a subscription fee. They managed to have enough active players to support one competitive PvP campaign. Now this guy thinks they surpassed WoW, just hilarious.
Don't bother respoding if you have no clue what you're talking about.
They dropped some campaigns because there were too many anyway.
However all of them are full with hours long queue in the prime, good luck getting in.
Since I was clearly referencing the pre-B2P conversion how full they are now is irrelevant. Apples to apples my friend. When ESO required a subscription fee to play it couldn't get close to WoW, now that they have a bunch of free players it could be getting close to WoW but that's hardly comparable.
No .... actual mmorpg players are splited in so many games
dont forget also with increased migration from mmo players to moba its going happen soon or later
and finaly how many years wow have?
Not surprise at all
Well, it is actually pretty surprising that they lost almost half the players in 3 quarters.
Over 5 million subs is still incredible but if this trend continues things look pretty bleak.
You have a point, Loke, however so does vadio. I think I side with both of you, lol.
I mean, 5 million subs is still more than any other 4 MMOs combined, and yet as you said, dropping to that level in only 3 quarters is not a good sign. I always wondered what some folks saw in WoD, and I believe we are seeing now that it most certainly was not a return to the BC glory days that some people said it was.
It's not surprising to see a 10-year-old game to lose players, and WoW has had a run that will most likely never be equaled. Still, like you said, things don't look good unless they've got something major up their sleeves, and whatever that is would have to launch awfully soon. I know a lot of vets (myself and my s/o included) who are done for good unless a lot of changes are made, and considering the current state of the game is one that aggrandizes Twitter and a "Selfie Cam", I highly doubt those changes will ever come.
Still, a good run for a great game for a long time. And honestly, most peoples' attention spans now are split amongst several games, so it's getting pretty tough to keep any game's player base glued to the screen for long, especially an aging game.
"Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune
No specific mention of how they have accounted for tokens - subscriber definition stays the same etc. however there are some additional details in the SEC filing:
Revenue from all WoW sources: $157M.
Deferred revenue: minus $64M
$157M equates to 3.48M @ $15 which compares to 6M @ $15 last quarter. The 2.52M drop being bigger than the headline 1.5M drop - suggesting that more "high value" subscribers have been lost. This despite a token subscriber being - essentially - $20.
However:
The deferred revenue figure is negative - usually this value is positive. If people take out a 3 month sub running June to august say then Blizzard would book the June "$15" with the $30 for July and August being deferred to the next quarter. The negative value could be the result of claiming all token revenue this quarter and deferring the service until next quarter - basically Blizzard "owe" $64M of subscription. $64M is about 4.2M months or 1.4M quarterly subscribers @ ;$15. It might not be of course - maybe it is an annual royalty payment.
However if it is due to tokens then 1.4M people were able to purchase tokens extending into at least Q3; the number in Q2 could have been higher of course and - since the deferred number is usually positive - maybe higher still.
Blizzard did reassure investors that they had released WoW's largest ever conmtent patch and that this has stemmed the loss of subscriptions.
Seriously? They don't believe that a lot of people stayed subscribed for the patch and - following its reception subs will plummet further as Suzie Ford has - and I agree - take a bigger fall come the Q3 number.
According to MMO-Champion, tokens were included. There was a tweet by a Blizzard employee some time ago saying that "Tokens did not have a profound impact on subscription numbers". How it was included? Likely the same way any subscription is. One account = one subscription if it has game time (excluding free accounts). Though this is a presumption on my part.
It begs further investigation as to how a game can still lose 1,500,000 subscribers even with 6.2 releases days prior to the end of the quarter and offering people a chance to play for free.
This is important to know for Blizzard, so that they can make preparations to help prevent further loss (or acquire more players).
As a whole, I agree that there will be a fall in Q3 unless they come up with something spectacular at Gamescon. Or they manage to get the beta out ASAP and release the new expansion before then.
I wasn't in any way suggesting that tokens were "not considered".
Tokens however exist in one of fours "states" and it matters when it comes to reporting:
as a code in the shop; cost "nothing" to produce; don't trouble the accountants;
bought by a seeker of gold; Blizzard get $20; I believe they have "booked" 100% of the revenue
bought for in-game gold; this earns Blizzard nothing but generates a "liability" to provide "30 days"
"cashed in" by players for 30 days; Blizzard (will) have counted these players as subs for this quarter.
Which leaves tokens in players accounts that have not been cashed. I think they have classed these as "deferred" revenue. Lets assume it is and 1.4M players all have 90 days game time to come. And everybody else leaves. Then Blizzard might announce 1.4M subscribers but $0 revenue. And it is revenue that really matters.
If the $64M deferred is down to tokens not yet used then - when you add in tokens that will have been used this quarter - that could be a huge $$$ number.
You've got to be kidding me. "Probably" is not the same as "Have".. This is what I mean when I say people go off assumptions.. neither of those games are close to wow's numbers. If they were they would tell everybody, nobody would hide surpassing WOW.. are you kidding?
My point exactly. One game will surpass Wow sooner or later of course but I promise that all regular visitors here will know who does does it when that happens.
But sure, GW2 and ESO are probably the 2 likeliest contenders right now even if Lineage is another possibility (and it is actually 4 years older than Wow).
Right now however Wow is still the king and will likely be so 2016 as well. But anything can happens besides the publisher not telling us that their MMO is largest.
Easy... Make it free up to level 60 at least (20 is too low), movie on the way, expansion, hearthstone / heroes of the storm players learning and migrating, Oculus / VR support = 20 million players by end of next year!
really tired of people bringing up pointless shit like this about wow every year. game is 10+ years old what do you expect?
its still towering over all the other games as its a beast we will never see happen again. instead of looking for its downfall that prob wont happen until they shut it down, Celebrate that you are witnessing video gaming history. No media product has been this successful for this long. I mean you have a few like harry potter, Pokemon etc.. but this is an mmo. AN MMO. Its become part of pop culture it's so iconic. Again an MMO. This prob wont happen again. Think about it
We have the Creators, fans, community and staff to thank for that. I dont even play wow anymore but i used to play constantly before wotlk came out and i must say i have yet to have a mmo game give me the "wow feeling" of being part of something that has turned into something much larger than just a niche game. There are always going to be Earnings and Losses its called running a billion dollar company. It takes nothing away from what it really is. I dont see the point of every single year pointing out when wow has losses or gains for that manner. We have been around it long enough..played it long enough to know the cycle. Wow drops new content = subs go up. Wow patches new content = people get annoyed, some leave. Wow does final patch for new content = people complain more people leave. People leave Wow = let's report the earnings and subs numbers. Wow drops new content = subs go up... ETC
get over it.
Instead of trying to point out every single thing you can about it.. why not Celebrate it, because when it's gone, you same people will be saying "things arent like when WOW was here, they were constantly trying to innovate mmos blah blah blah"
Internet culture got excited but needs to calm down.
Edit: posted here cause 2 threads going on about this..
I think people post about it because they hope it will finally be the straw that breaks Activisions's greedy back and allows them to see that they are doing more harm to the game than good.
WoW fans want Burning Crusade or Lich King type of expansions. Not Cataclysm or Draenor. They are hoping the sub losses will make Blizzard and Activision aware of this, so WoW can get an expansion that is worthy of being a WoW expansion.
Sure there are haters who are just saying, "Ha ha ha, WoW fanboys, it's dying!"
But, I also think there are people hoping for a wake up call, because they don't want their beloved game becoming a string of shit expacs like Draenor.
Playing | GW2 Wanting | Pantheon Watching | Crowfall Retired | WAR, Cabal, MO, CO, SHK, WoW, FFXIV: ARR
I wasn't in any way suggesting that tokens were "not considered".
Tokens however exist in one of fours "states" and it matters when it comes to reporting:
as a code in the shop; cost "nothing" to produce; don't trouble the accountants;
bought by a seeker of gold; Blizzard get $20; I believe they have "booked" 100% of the revenue
bought for in-game gold; this earns Blizzard nothing but generates a "liability" to provide "30 days"
"cashed in" by players for 30 days; Blizzard (will) have counted these players as subs for this quarter.
Which leaves tokens in players accounts that have not been cashed. I think they have classed these as "deferred" revenue. Lets assume it is and 1.4M players all have 90 days game time to come. And everybody else leaves. Then Blizzard might announce 1.4M subscribers but $0 revenue. And it is revenue that really matters.
If the $64M deferred is down to tokens not yet used then - when you add in tokens that will have been used this quarter - that could be a huge $$$ number.
Tokens are really not that different from someones mom paying for their sub. As long as someone pays it is a sub no matter who (unless it is Blizzard or Activision).
So lets just count any used tokens as subs but lets not count ones that isn't cashed in until they get used or we will have counted them twice, first as subs and then as revenue.
its still the king (just) on subs but not on investment which remains the real issue - guess we will see if the next expansion is the same old shit or will they invest big time. Blizzard can wrap it up how they like, but finally the player base is reacting to their greed, down to 2005 sub levels (mid vanilla level) with at least 6 months to go.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
You've got to be kidding me. "Probably" is not the same as "Have".. This is what I mean when I say people go off assumptions.. neither of those games are close to wow's numbers. If they were they would tell everybody, nobody would hide surpassing WOW.. are you kidding?
My point exactly. One game will surpass Wow sooner or later of course but I promise that all regular visitors here will know who does does it when that happens.
But sure, GW2 and ESO are probably the 2 likeliest contenders right now even if Lineage is another possibility (and it is actually 4 years older than Wow).
Right now however Wow is still the king and will likely be so 2016 as well. But anything can happens besides the publisher not telling us that their MMO is largest.
Comparing "players" between a B2P game and a game that requires a subscription to play is just ridiculous to start with though. If WoW flung open the doors and let the 100 million or so accounts they have to log in for free at anytime then we can compare gw2 and ESO numbers to WoW numbers.
Do you understand that mmorpgs like ESO and GW2 probably have more players in the West than WoW now? WoW most likely has less than 2 million in the west, people you play with. This is a big deal man. WoW is no longer king of the west.
You've got to be kidding me. "Probably" is not the same as "Have".. This is what I mean when I say people go off assumptions.. neither of those games are close to wow's numbers. If they were they would tell everybody, nobody would hide surpassing WOW.. are you kidding?
GW2 and TESO are b2p.
All we know about TESO is that after the console launch it had "millions" of players - so at least 2.
GW2 - well enough reported copies sold in the west to surpass WoW but unlikely.
The really interesting comparison would be with Destiny. And from what AB have said Destiny may now be bigger than WoW. Tricky comparison so not going to spell it out - you need to read all the financial stuff.
I think people post about it because they hope it will finally be the straw that breaks Activisions's greedy back and allows them to see that they are doing more harm to the game than good.
WoW fans want Burning Crusade or Lich King type of expansions. Not Cataclysm or Draenor. They are hoping the sub losses will make Blizzard and Activision aware of this, so WoW can get an expansion that is worthy of being a WoW expansion.
Sure there are haters who are just saying, "Ha ha ha, WoW fanboys, it's dying!"
But, I also think there are people hoping for a wake up call, because they don't want their beloved game becoming a string of shit expacs like Draenor.
I wouldn't actually be so sure that they are what Wow fans really want at this point, they surely was it at launch but that was a while ago. I am not sure anyone know exactly what they want until they really see it.
But I do know that most don't want WoD. Blizzard either needs to go back to earlier more successful expansions or try out something new.
It is always dangerous to think people want something like they wanted 8 years ago, sometimes it is true but sometimes when they actually get it they discovers that it havn't aged well. It would still be a step upward even in worst scenario though but I think it would be best if they tried something new and tried to move that game in a new direction. That didn't go to well last time of course but I think Blizzard still have some really talented people that could do this right.
And for all the players sake, bring Kaplan back. You can just see on Suzies chart how the subs started to drop after he left as lead developer.
I love the people coming into this thread acting like this isn't a big deal because wow still has a lot of subs and it's normal for subs to drop after an expansion has been out for a while. This is probably the biggest news regarding wow in the last 10 years. Losing half of your subs in 9 months is tremendous no matter how you try to spin it. This isn't a normal post expansion sub drop. People aren't happy about where the game is going, the numbers speak for themselves. I haven't been subbed to wow for a long time, but I still think it's a decent game. I'm really interested to see where they go from here. The normal release a cinematic, list a few bullet points about the next xpac, and open the blizzbank to let the nerds throw their money in isn't going to work this time, they need to do something more drastic.
I really think the grind of WoW is something people just dont enjoy any more. When I get to the wall of daily quests my body starts to feel ill and I start to retaste my lunch. WoW is going to need to make it so people can get in and make a team and finish a dungeon you feel rewarded in, in under 30 min. I mean from finding a team to finish 30 min. There also needs to be that 1-3hrs content as well but being able to get my moneys worth when all I have is 30 min needs to be there.
Also things like Crafting needs to mean something or remove it. To much of WoW is about getting something done that means nothing later. Everything needs to have meaning and WoW has lost touch with that.
Also coming back to WoW for WoD to find little things drove me nuts. Like the amount of time I need to spend on bad and item maintenance is crazy. When playing for an evening, having to spend 20-30 min cleaning up my bags, WHO HAS TIME FOR THAT?
WoW was ground breaking 10 years ago, now its falling behind in every area of game play but IMO questing. This makes it fun to get an expansion, see the story and get out kinda game. Time to change what matters.
CoX had newspaper/radio mission that you could run really quickly and get rewards.
There was also the task/strike force and trials for longer team events!
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
All we know about TESO is that after the console launch it had "millions" of players - so at least 2.
GW2 - well enough reported copies sold in the west to surpass WoW but unlikely.
The really interesting comparison would be with Destiny. And from what AB have said Destiny may now be bigger than WoW. Tricky comparison so not going to spell it out - you need to read all the financial stuff.
Yeah, lets not go there. Destiny is not a MMORPG, it is a multiplayer shooter.
ESO depends on how well it can keep the console players and if it actually can grow more after the launch. Most MMOs don't. Since we heard very little new about the number of it's active subs I assume it isn't going as well as some here hopes even though I doubt it is a disaster ala Wildstorm.
As for GW2 it isn't surpassing Wow, it might when an expansion hits though, GW1 did really gain many players everytime it released one but I am not so sure HoT have what it takes to gain that many active players. Unless you count the Chinese players as well, it should have something like 500K-1mil of those as well.
But comparing B2P games with sub games is pretty hard. If Wow went B2P (which isn't impossible) we could compare them more fairly. Many B2P players tend to log in short now and then to check the trading post and new content which P2P players don't due to the cost of a month for doing it.
The only fair thing if you want to compare P2P, F2P and B2P games is to check on the income and Wow still tops that one.
Comments
There is a thing called quarterly financial reports.
Oddly enough, 1 year has 12 months and if you divide 12 months in quarters, you get 4 groups of 3 months.
So every 3 months they report the number of subscriptions.
On the February 26 of 2015, they released a financial report covering the months of October, November and December 2014.
Blizzard reported http://investor.activision.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1047469-15-1298&CIK=718877
"At December 31, 2014, the global subscriber* base for World of Warcraft was over 10 million, compared to approximately 7.4 million subscribers at September 30, 2014, and approximately 7.8 million subscribers at December 31, 2013. The increase as compared to September 30, 2014 and December 31, 2013 was proportional to the mix of subscribers in the East and the West and is driven by the launch of the new expansion, World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor in November 2014. In general, the average revenue per subscriber is lower in the East than in the West (where the "East" includes China, Taiwan, and South Korea, and the "West" includes North America, Europe, Australia, and Latin America). As we have seen following past expansion releases, we expect downward pressure on the number of subscribers in 2015. Going forward, Blizzard expects to continue delivering new game content in all regions that is intended to further appeal to the gaming community."
Since December 31 2014 was the last day of the year 2014, the year 2015 started with over 10 million WoW subscribers.
May 6 2015 Blizzard reported the subscription numbers for January, February and March 2015.
"At March 31, 2015, the global subscriber* base for World of Warcraft was approximately 7.1 million, compared to over 10 million subscribers at December 31, 2014, and approximately 7.6 million subscribers at March 31, 2014. As we have seen following past expansion releases, subscribership declined in the first quarter of 2015 following the release of the latest expansion pack, Warlords of Draenor TM , in the fourth quarter of 2014 . The subscriber decline was primarily attributable to the East, with a smaller relative decrease in the West. In general, the average revenue per subscriber is lower in the East than in the West (where the “East” includes China, Taiwan, and South Korea, and the “West” includes North America, Europe, Australia, and Latin America). World of Warcraft ’s revenue performance at constant foreign exchange rates has been more stable, driven by continued strong uptake on value added services, and price increases in select regions, which partially offset subscriber declines, particularly in the East. Going forward, Blizzard expects to continue delivering new game content in all regions that is intended to further appeal to the gaming community."
Today, Blizzard reported the subscriber numbers for the months of April, May and June 2015.
"At June 30, 2015, the global subscriber* base for World of Warcraft was approximately 5.6 million subscribers, compared to approximately 7.1 million subscribers at March 31, 2015, and approximately 6.8 million subscribers at June 30, 2014. As we have seen following past expansion releases, subscribership declined in the first half of 2015 following the release of the latest expansion pack, Warlords of Draenor™, in the fourth quarter of 2014 . The subscriber decline was primarily attributable to the East, with a smaller relative decrease in the West. In general, the average revenue per subscriber is lower in the East than in the West (where the “East” includes China, Taiwan, and South Korea, and the “West” includes North America, Europe, Australia, and Latin America). Going forward, Blizzard expects to continue delivering new game content in all regions that is intended to further appeal to the gaming community, however there could be further declines in the subscriber numbers. While World of Warcraft subscribers have declined, Blizzard’s revenues were up for the three months, as Blizzard further diversifies its business and portfolio of franchises. Revenues from Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft, Heroes of the Storm, and Diablo III contributed to growth in Blizzard revenues and overall gaming community size."
http://investor.activision.com/reports.cfm
All official Blizzard figures.
So with a program called Microsoft Excel, you input the subscription numbers in a column and the Quarter in another column.
And voila with blood magic you get the chart presented with all official numbers from Blizzard.
5.6 Millions is a big number. But 10 Million is 78% bigger.
Is losing 44% of your player base a plummet?
Opinions.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Why do we have these threads for blizzard anyway? They are the exception, not the rule. 0 shits are given I guarantee it. Not with everything they have planned/released. Overwatch, hearthstone, etc. Why do people feel the need to hype it up to "ZOMG WOW IS GONNA SHUT DOWN"?
+1 Thank you. I was just going to ignore it. I don't have the patience for all that. He still may not get it but at least you tried.
I get it.. but me being a sports fan I would know better than to act like she isnt still Queen of fighting if she had a decade long run of wins.
EDIT: I would say actually "WOW somebody beat her! She had an amazing run.. what a champ." Thats what I would say.
I wouldnt say "Well lets go look at the number of times she almost lost, add those up and divide by the equation of times she threw a counter jab and stumbled because she missed. SUCH and SUCH is landing more Counters than Rhonda so now Rhonda isnt queen anymore her incredible record no longer matters."
What? do you see what im saying?
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Yeah I remember when ESO charged a subscription fee. They managed to have enough active players to support one competitive PvP campaign. Now this guy thinks they surpassed WoW, just hilarious.
Don't bother respoding if you have no clue what you're talking about.
They dropped some campaigns because there were too many anyway.
However all of them are full with hours long queue in the prime, good luck getting in.
PS: ESO never really dropped the subscription fee, they just tweaked with the model a bit because of Microsoft's restrictions. What we have now is a hybrid between B2P/P2P, that is leaning more towards P2P.
You've got to be kidding me. "Probably" is not the same as "Have".. This is what I mean when I say people go off assumptions.. neither of those games are close to wow's numbers. If they were they would tell everybody, nobody would hide surpassing WOW.. are you kidding?
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Since I was clearly referencing the pre-B2P conversion how full they are now is irrelevant. Apples to apples my friend. When ESO required a subscription fee to play it couldn't get close to WoW, now that they have a bunch of free players it could be getting close to WoW but that's hardly comparable.
You have a point, Loke, however so does vadio. I think I side with both of you, lol.
I mean, 5 million subs is still more than any other 4 MMOs combined, and yet as you said, dropping to that level in only 3 quarters is not a good sign. I always wondered what some folks saw in WoD, and I believe we are seeing now that it most certainly was not a return to the BC glory days that some people said it was.
It's not surprising to see a 10-year-old game to lose players, and WoW has had a run that will most likely never be equaled. Still, like you said, things don't look good unless they've got something major up their sleeves, and whatever that is would have to launch awfully soon. I know a lot of vets (myself and my s/o included) who are done for good unless a lot of changes are made, and considering the current state of the game is one that aggrandizes Twitter and a "Selfie Cam", I highly doubt those changes will ever come.
Still, a good run for a great game for a long time. And honestly, most peoples' attention spans now are split amongst several games, so it's getting pretty tough to keep any game's player base glued to the screen for long, especially an aging game.
"Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune
I wasn't in any way suggesting that tokens were "not considered".
Tokens however exist in one of fours "states" and it matters when it comes to reporting:
My point exactly. One game will surpass Wow sooner or later of course but I promise that all regular visitors here will know who does does it when that happens.
But sure, GW2 and ESO are probably the 2 likeliest contenders right now even if Lineage is another possibility (and it is actually 4 years older than Wow).
Right now however Wow is still the king and will likely be so 2016 as well. But anything can happens besides the publisher not telling us that their MMO is largest.
I think people post about it because they hope it will finally be the straw that breaks Activisions's greedy back and allows them to see that they are doing more harm to the game than good.
WoW fans want Burning Crusade or Lich King type of expansions. Not Cataclysm or Draenor. They are hoping the sub losses will make Blizzard and Activision aware of this, so WoW can get an expansion that is worthy of being a WoW expansion.
Sure there are haters who are just saying, "Ha ha ha, WoW fanboys, it's dying!"
But, I also think there are people hoping for a wake up call, because they don't want their beloved game becoming a string of shit expacs like Draenor.
Playing | GW2
Wanting | Pantheon
Watching | Crowfall
Retired | WAR, Cabal, MO, CO, SHK, WoW, FFXIV: ARR
Tokens are really not that different from someones mom paying for their sub. As long as someone pays it is a sub no matter who (unless it is Blizzard or Activision).
So lets just count any used tokens as subs but lets not count ones that isn't cashed in until they get used or we will have counted them twice, first as subs and then as revenue.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Comparing "players" between a B2P game and a game that requires a subscription to play is just ridiculous to start with though. If WoW flung open the doors and let the 100 million or so accounts they have to log in for free at anytime then we can compare gw2 and ESO numbers to WoW numbers.
GW2 and TESO are b2p.
All we know about TESO is that after the console launch it had "millions" of players - so at least 2.
GW2 - well enough reported copies sold in the west to surpass WoW but unlikely.
The really interesting comparison would be with Destiny. And from what AB have said Destiny may now be bigger than WoW. Tricky comparison so not going to spell it out - you need to read all the financial stuff.
Valar Morghulis.
All things must end eventually....
I wouldn't actually be so sure that they are what Wow fans really want at this point, they surely was it at launch but that was a while ago. I am not sure anyone know exactly what they want until they really see it.
But I do know that most don't want WoD. Blizzard either needs to go back to earlier more successful expansions or try out something new.
It is always dangerous to think people want something like they wanted 8 years ago, sometimes it is true but sometimes when they actually get it they discovers that it havn't aged well. It would still be a step upward even in worst scenario though but I think it would be best if they tried something new and tried to move that game in a new direction. That didn't go to well last time of course but I think Blizzard still have some really talented people that could do this right.
And for all the players sake, bring Kaplan back. You can just see on Suzies chart how the subs started to drop after he left as lead developer.
CoX had newspaper/radio mission that you could run really quickly and get rewards.
There was also the task/strike force and trials for longer team events!
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Yeah, lets not go there. Destiny is not a MMORPG, it is a multiplayer shooter.
ESO depends on how well it can keep the console players and if it actually can grow more after the launch. Most MMOs don't. Since we heard very little new about the number of it's active subs I assume it isn't going as well as some here hopes even though I doubt it is a disaster ala Wildstorm.
As for GW2 it isn't surpassing Wow, it might when an expansion hits though, GW1 did really gain many players everytime it released one but I am not so sure HoT have what it takes to gain that many active players. Unless you count the Chinese players as well, it should have something like 500K-1mil of those as well.
But comparing B2P games with sub games is pretty hard. If Wow went B2P (which isn't impossible) we could compare them more fairly. Many B2P players tend to log in short now and then to check the trading post and new content which P2P players don't due to the cost of a month for doing it.
The only fair thing if you want to compare P2P, F2P and B2P games is to check on the income and Wow still tops that one.