Originally posted by Bladestrom It is an eleven year old game With low investment. your defending this by attacking players who suggest they should invest more, e.g 300 million over 5 years to replace their 11 year old game for their customer base that pays 1 billion a year. Thats about 5% of the revenue. Well done your attitude is why blizzard feels they can get away with this, and why you get selfies and garrisons in 2015.
They can invest all the money they want, but seem like there data is off what people like to do not made to do, but befor WoD came out people was saying it's a good expansion even when was out with 10 mil players, but now people are attack it not sure what the player base want from wow, they have raiding even hard mode even harder then hard mode, no flying, and arena pvp that surely keep people:).
Originally posted by Nephaerius Despite all the doom and gloom here the best part is Blizzard is still ridiculously profitable. They're making more than expected off Hearthstone and increased player engagement as well as more off other titles than expected. D3 is up to over 30 million copies sold, etc. WoW subs were going to decline sooner or later. Company is still doing great.
Okay, but since I'm not an investor I don't really care too much about how their other games are doing. The board of directors can pat themselves on the back and hand out bonus checks to each other, but what will happen to WoW if the subscribers continue to leave in large numbers? I think that's the concern.
Well you might want to care about those other titles as they may determine the fate of WoW. If they happened to be profitable enough WoW servers could stay online forever. What will happen to WoW is the same thing that happens to any other game that's lived past its time. It's either shutdown or moved into maintenance mode. Things get old and they die. This is the natural order of life. Then we will finally get Warcraft 4 and/or a WoW sequel.
Regardless, 5.6 million subs is nothing to sneeze at ($850 million/month?). Especially considering, despite the claims otherwise in this thread, the majority of their sub losses were actually in the Asian market so this is a decrease perhaps due to more accurate reporting of sub numbers over time. WoW's not going any where any time soon.
What are you smoking? $850 million monthly hahaha?
God, WoW's yearly revenue was a little over $1 billion in their best years, this is by far their worst year.
Last year they had only $700million revenue, which was their by far the biggest low at that time.
Of course their East numbers are falling the most, when 70% of their playerbase is from the East anyway.
1.7mil players in the West paying $15 per month = $25.5 million per month
3.9mil players in the East paying $5 per month = 19.5 million per month
5.6mil players = 45 million per month
As Q3 end in September we'll start to see the realistic picture.
WoW's Token won't be new and the Patch 6.2 failed miserably.
I'm calling 3mil by the end of Q3 and only 1mil Subs in the West.
Need some figures to back up your guesswork, as there are no indications that i am aware of, that would substantiate your claims that most of WoW's subs are in Asia, or the rest of your figures come to think of it.
Well I guess you could always take the average Sub's count of MoP and calculate based on their report of 700mil revenue in 2014.
The only part of your statement that i can agree with is the bit i underlined.
There are also as yet unsubstantiated claims that the increase in charges for playing the game for Asian players who pay by the hour, caused a huge drop in player numbers, that Asian players are now far fewer than they were just 2 years ago, and may well represent the bulk of the player losses. Of course i am also guessing as actual figures are hard to come by.
Bullshit blizzard invested a lot in wow, saying otherwise is just blind hate. It's true recently they have decided to invest a lot less but what do you expect, it's an eleven year old game.
foolish corporate mentality cause you probably have no idea how businesses work.
Yeah, they did invest a lot in Wow but now there are fewer content patches and the expansions feels a lot cheaper as well.
That together with the fact that they moved Kaplan for Titan a few years back doesn't help the game at all.
Now, investing a lot in a failing old game, like Asherons call or something would be bad bussiness sense but Wow is still earning loads of money so it should have proper investment (like 5-10% of the revenues back into the game) and treating it like a milk cow to just get money with small investments will hurt the game badly and have already done so.
The bussiness worlds work in the way that you need to invest to continue to earn money unless you have a product that can sell in the same shape forever (Coca Cola comes to mind) and computer games aren't like that beside possibly Tetris.
The only part of your statement that i can agree with is the bit i underlined.
There are also as yet unsubstantiated claims that the increase in charges for playing the game for Asian players who pay by the hour, caused a huge drop in player numbers, that Asian players are now far fewer than they were just 2 years ago, and may well represent the bulk of the player losses. Of course i am also guessing as actual figures are hard to come by.
How does that fit in with your own 'guesswork' ?
I heard the same rumours and it is not unlikely.
We do know about how many players there were in different regions in 2011:
1. China, Asian Realms: 3.2 million players
2. United States and Canada, North American Realms: 3.0 million players
3. United Kingdom, European Realms: 1.0 million players
4. South Korea, Asian Realms: 800,000 players
5. Germany, European Realms: 600,000 players
6. Taiwan, Asian Realms: 350,000 players
7. France, European Realms: 200,000 players
8. Russia, European Realms: 150,000 players
9. Australia, North American Realms: 120,000 players
10. Latin America, North American Realms: 100,000 players
11. Spain, European Realms: 80,000 players
12. Other, NA/EU/Asian Realms: 800,000 players
Those numbers are however 4 years old and anything could have happened with the percentage since then. That China would have 75% of the players sounds very unlikely to me, that would mean China still have as many players as 2011 where the rest have lost over 80%.
Bullshit blizzard invested a lot in wow, saying otherwise is just blind hate. It's true recently they have decided to invest a lot less but what do you expect, it's an eleven year old game.
foolish corporate mentality cause you probably have no idea how businesses work.
Yeah, they did invest a lot in Wow but now there are fewer content patches and the expansions feels a lot cheaper as well.
That together with the fact that they moved Kaplan for Titan a few years back doesn't help the game at all.
Now, investing a lot in a failing old game, like Asherons call or something would be bad bussiness sense but Wow is still earning loads of money so it should have proper investment (like 5-10% of the revenues back into the game) and treating it like a milk cow to just get money with small investments will hurt the game badly and have already done so.
The bussiness worlds work in the way that you need to invest to continue to earn money unless you have a product that can sell in the same shape forever (Coca Cola comes to mind) and computer games aren't like that beside possibly Tetris.
They also work in a way that ensures when it's time to move on from the obsolete they scale back it's support as well as investment..... Turning their focus toward what's important over the next 11 years. Perhaps it's that time....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah, they did invest a lot in Wow but now there are fewer content patches and the expansions feels a lot cheaper as well.
That together with the fact that they moved Kaplan for Titan a few years back doesn't help the game at all.
Now, investing a lot in a failing old game, like Asherons call or something would be bad bussiness sense but Wow is still earning loads of money so it should have proper investment (like 5-10% of the revenues back into the game) and treating it like a milk cow to just get money with small investments will hurt the game badly and have already done so.
The bussiness worlds work in the way that you need to invest to continue to earn money unless you have a product that can sell in the same shape forever (Coca Cola comes to mind) and computer games aren't like that beside possibly Tetris.
They also work in a way that ensures when it's time to move on from the obsolete they scale back it's support as well as investment..... Turning their focus toward what's important over the next 11 years. Perhaps it's that time....
Well, they started with it already a few years back with over 10 million players and thta was way too early. Soon it might indeed be better to focus the money on other things but that is partly because of their own fault.
If the last 2 expansions would have been better and they put more of the earnings back into the game Wow would have had far more players still. Not 13 millions but certainly more than 5.6.
And if they don't change tactics with the next expansion it will be too late to turn things around. Either they will have to make Wow 2 or just keep the game running as SOE/Daybreak does with Everquest as a small nostalgic game.
Now, I don't think that Wow would have been number one for another 11 years even with a better budget and Kaplan still as boss, but 5-6 years would be far from impossible. Now it looks that it will drop down from number one a year from now or so unless the next expansion is really great and actually released by then.
Bullshit blizzard invested a lot in wow, saying otherwise is just blind hate. It's true recently they have decided to invest a lot less but what do you expect, it's an eleven year old game.
foolish corporate mentality cause you probably have no idea how businesses work.
Yeah, they did invest a lot in Wow but now there are fewer content patches and the expansions feels a lot cheaper as well.
That together with the fact that they moved Kaplan for Titan a few years back doesn't help the game at all.
Now, investing a lot in a failing old game, like Asherons call or something would be bad bussiness sense but Wow is still earning loads of money so it should have proper investment (like 5-10% of the revenues back into the game) and treating it like a milk cow to just get money with small investments will hurt the game badly and have already done so.
The bussiness worlds work in the way that you need to invest to continue to earn money unless you have a product that can sell in the same shape forever (Coca Cola comes to mind) and computer games aren't like that beside possibly Tetris.
Asherons call was sush good game, at this point be bad for bussiness with to much risk your right about that, but wanted to point out for them making on Asherons Call 2 then reinvesting back them Asheron Call was a big bad for bussiness so far what I see what most people want now is a wow 2 on the fourms then investing back in to the game. Pretty much project titan from blizzard showed us what happen to asheron can happen to them if they stop and work on something other but forgetting going back to the roots and making the game better.:)
Bullshit blizzard invested a lot in wow, saying otherwise is just blind hate. It's true recently they have decided to invest a lot less but what do you expect, it's an eleven year old game.
foolish corporate mentality cause you probably have no idea how businesses work.
Yeah, they did invest a lot in Wow but now there are fewer content patches and the expansions feels a lot cheaper as well.
That together with the fact that they moved Kaplan for Titan a few years back doesn't help the game at all.
Now, investing a lot in a failing old game, like Asherons call or something would be bad bussiness sense but Wow is still earning loads of money so it should have proper investment (like 5-10% of the revenues back into the game) and treating it like a milk cow to just get money with small investments will hurt the game badly and have already done so.
The bussiness worlds work in the way that you need to invest to continue to earn money unless you have a product that can sell in the same shape forever (Coca Cola comes to mind) and computer games aren't like that beside possibly Tetris.
Which business school did you go to.... wow has limited potential for growth. Some investment should be used to maintain market share or slow down the decline but wow is long past its prime and is not in the declining stage, investment should go to new products to balance our their product portfolio.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
The way they have been doing games that last few years going for the cheep quick rush and and has no endurance it only satisfies those that are satisfied are adrenalin junkies. the content and game play are fast and narrow with only pvp or raiding at the top.
I have all but stopped playing the arcade mmos personally I want a natural, organic but heroic game both a sand box but also with story arcs that shift and change depending on what players do (beat back the orcs and possibly trolls come to power) where weather is a factor and deserts you need water and winter you need warmth. many of your gamers have grown up but you have not grown up with them.
a diet of sugar might be enough for some players but many are looking for more and the game market right now is stuck in the WOW and everquest days.
I have always wanted to build an inn or tavern but they have no use or value in MMOs
make a world, not a game, we dont want another game.
It still has the most loyal and fanatic fanbase in mmo's. Throw in the 5 mill subs and , meh wtf cares. Lets look at it in a financial
standpoint. If they lost all their subs for 5yrs straight and continued to pour money into WOW, they would still be above water. I stopped playing 5 yrs ago btw lol.
Honestly, is anyone surprised? The game is old, its time. I personally believe the game was awesome for the first 3 expansions, but it has slowly been going down hill not only because Blizzard's choices are sometimes iffy but also just because of age. Its time, the players know it, and Blizzard should know it.
The point of the news is the drastic drop in subs in only 10 months since WoD's launch. We're talking half a million subscriptions lost in just 10 months. This is a much more dramatic decline that has been reflected in the past during the cycle you mention.
I like your graph SBFord but this decline is "Expected" based on statistical analysis. It is right on the trend line.
Comments
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
They can invest all the money they want, but seem like there data is off what people like to do not made to do, but befor WoD came out people was saying it's a good expansion even when was out with 10 mil players, but now people are attack it not sure what the player base want from wow, they have raiding even hard mode even harder then hard mode, no flying, and arena pvp that surely keep people:).
The only part of your statement that i can agree with is the bit i underlined.
There are also as yet unsubstantiated claims that the increase in charges for playing the game for Asian players who pay by the hour, caused a huge drop in player numbers, that Asian players are now far fewer than they were just 2 years ago, and may well represent the bulk of the player losses. Of course i am also guessing as actual figures are hard to come by.
How does that fit in with your own 'guesswork' ?
Yeah, they did invest a lot in Wow but now there are fewer content patches and the expansions feels a lot cheaper as well.
That together with the fact that they moved Kaplan for Titan a few years back doesn't help the game at all.
Now, investing a lot in a failing old game, like Asherons call or something would be bad bussiness sense but Wow is still earning loads of money so it should have proper investment (like 5-10% of the revenues back into the game) and treating it like a milk cow to just get money with small investments will hurt the game badly and have already done so.
The bussiness worlds work in the way that you need to invest to continue to earn money unless you have a product that can sell in the same shape forever (Coca Cola comes to mind) and computer games aren't like that beside possibly Tetris.
I heard the same rumours and it is not unlikely.
We do know about how many players there were in different regions in 2011:
1. China, Asian Realms: 3.2 million players
2. United States and Canada, North American Realms: 3.0 million players
3. United Kingdom, European Realms: 1.0 million players
4. South Korea, Asian Realms: 800,000 players
5. Germany, European Realms: 600,000 players
6. Taiwan, Asian Realms: 350,000 players
7. France, European Realms: 200,000 players
8. Russia, European Realms: 150,000 players
9. Australia, North American Realms: 120,000 players
10. Latin America, North American Realms: 100,000 players
11. Spain, European Realms: 80,000 players
12. Other, NA/EU/Asian Realms: 800,000 players
Those numbers are however 4 years old and anything could have happened with the percentage since then. That China would have 75% of the players sounds very unlikely to me, that would mean China still have as many players as 2011 where the rest have lost over 80%.
Guessing is pointless.
They also work in a way that ensures when it's time to move on from the obsolete they scale back it's support as well as investment..... Turning their focus toward what's important over the next 11 years. Perhaps it's that time....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well, they started with it already a few years back with over 10 million players and thta was way too early. Soon it might indeed be better to focus the money on other things but that is partly because of their own fault.
If the last 2 expansions would have been better and they put more of the earnings back into the game Wow would have had far more players still. Not 13 millions but certainly more than 5.6.
And if they don't change tactics with the next expansion it will be too late to turn things around. Either they will have to make Wow 2 or just keep the game running as SOE/Daybreak does with Everquest as a small nostalgic game.
Now, I don't think that Wow would have been number one for another 11 years even with a better budget and Kaplan still as boss, but 5-6 years would be far from impossible. Now it looks that it will drop down from number one a year from now or so unless the next expansion is really great and actually released by then.
Asherons call was sush good game, at this point be bad for bussiness with to much risk your right about that, but wanted to point out for them making on Asherons Call 2 then reinvesting back them Asheron Call was a big bad for bussiness so far what I see what most people want now is a wow 2 on the fourms then investing back in to the game. Pretty much project titan from blizzard showed us what happen to asheron can happen to them if they stop and work on something other but forgetting going back to the roots and making the game better.:)
Which business school did you go to.... wow has limited potential for growth. Some investment should be used to maintain market share or slow down the decline but wow is long past its prime and is not in the declining stage, investment should go to new products to balance our their product portfolio.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
The way they have been doing games that last few years going for the cheep quick rush and and has no endurance it only satisfies those that are satisfied are adrenalin junkies. the content and game play are fast and narrow with only pvp or raiding at the top.
I have all but stopped playing the arcade mmos personally I want a natural, organic but heroic game both a sand box but also with story arcs that shift and change depending on what players do (beat back the orcs and possibly trolls come to power) where weather is a factor and deserts you need water and winter you need warmth. many of your gamers have grown up but you have not grown up with them.
a diet of sugar might be enough for some players but many are looking for more and the game market right now is stuck in the WOW and everquest days.
I have always wanted to build an inn or tavern but they have no use or value in MMOs
make a world, not a game, we dont want another game.
It still has the most loyal and fanatic fanbase in mmo's. Throw in the 5 mill subs and , meh wtf cares. Lets look at it in a financial
standpoint. If they lost all their subs for 5yrs straight and continued to pour money into WOW, they would still be above water. I stopped playing 5 yrs ago btw lol.
I like your graph SBFord but this decline is "Expected" based on statistical analysis. It is right on the trend line.