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Do You Like Slow Or Fast Leveling ?

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  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,480

    It'd be amusing to know how many people who voted "slow leveling" actually play a game with slow leveling right now... ;)

    I'd vote "no leveling at all" if the option was available.
    Age Of Wulin has a good system.

    http://ageofwushu.wikia.com/wiki/Cultivation




  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    The thing that I absolutely hate about leveling and it's the only thing, is that it renders so much of a game world obsolete.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    I prefer fun leveling, which from experience means (to me) that I'm very happy to get a new level because I feel like I accomplished something, but that it isn't urgently needed to progress in the game's content.

    This usually match with slower leveling process, horizontal design and/or a more sandbox approach where content/zones isn't segregated by levels. 
  • RenfailRenfail Member EpicPosts: 1,638
    edited August 2015
    It'd be amusing to know how many people who voted "slow leveling" actually play a game with slow leveling right now... ;)

    I'd vote "no leveling at all" if the option was available.
    That's precisely why none of our team is playing any current games, but instead kept falling back to EMUs before we decided to go our own way.

    Even the recent progression servers for Daybreak only provided a partial throwback to that era, and the leveling speeds are roughly double what they were back in the day. Hell, I went level 28 - 45 on my Necro in just a week of Guk groups. That is NOT early EverQuest speeds. 

    However, of important note is just HOW MANY people jumped on board with those servers because they WANT that old-school experience and leveling curve. 

    P.S. I voted for slow leveling. I grew up with hell levels and remember it taking me a couple of years to get to 60 on my ranger back in the day as I was learning the game and growing up with my guild. I distinctly remember playing a 19 hour session to get through level 45 in the Dreadlands at one point. 

    I didn't hit 50 before Kunark came out, despite starting in May of 1999 just a couple of months after the game launched. It was slow, slow, slow going back then, and our guild took our time. I still played every damn day for several hours, but there was a ton of crafting, roleplaying, running around and helping other guildies, and exp was the last thing on our mind. More important was community and having fun within the world and exploring, not racing to the cap. 

    Also being involved in things like buff stations at the newbie areas just to help players out, having language-learning sessions, working on building faction, and so many other things that never once moved your experience bar forward, but were instead things you did just to be part of a group and help out your fellow players. 

    The exact opposite of today's entitlement generation where it's all about "me me me" and "faster faster moar moar" 
    Tim "Renfail" Anderson | Wandering Hermits Patreon
  • EzirensEzirens Member UncommonPosts: 7
    Didn't see the option for "No Leveling" and for me, i don't like the the skill based "leveling" as its implemented today also. They just broke up levels into thousands of little levels, changing very little in the process. 
  • AzothAzoth Member UncommonPosts: 840
    It'd be amusing to know how many people who voted "slow leveling" actually play a game with slow leveling right now... ;)

    I'd vote "no leveling at all" if the option was available.
    I voted for slow leveling, I am not playing any MMORPG right now and nothing kept me interested for more than 2 months in the last 5 years.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Ezirens said:
    Didn't see the option for "No Leveling" and for me, i don't like the the skill based "leveling" as its implemented today also. They just broke up levels into thousands of little levels, changing very little in the process. 
    That is another discussion. I would have clicked it as well if it were an option but here we are talking about  how fast leveling really should be.I would say 5 times slower than the average modern MMO is perfect.
  • zzaxzzax Member UncommonPosts: 324
    Kyleran said:
    Didn't see the option I really wanted, which is no leveling...which is not the same as no progression.
    This. Leveling just doesnt fit in multiplayer games.
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    The problem with level and class based games is that the actual character progression doesn't start until you've reached max level.  Leveling up is false character progression.  It's a time sink where the real character progression (gear, mounts, crafting... ect) is waiting at the end.

    Given that fact, I'll choose the third option; No Leveling.  Just give me a character with some attributes that modify a list of hundreds of skills, and a pool of points to spend on skills.  Give me a game where "leveling up" is when I've used my long sword long enough to be able to put some more skill points into it.
  • SomethingUnusualSomethingUnusual Member UncommonPosts: 546
    To beat the dead horse... Since when did games "begin" at max level? As far as I've seen 98% of the game comes before hand... At max level it's just min maxing gear, reputations, challenge modes, etc... If people are literally starting every game with the assumption that rushing to max level for "end game", they are missing a lot of content and gameplay that the creators spent a whole lot more time on then a couple instances, world bosses, or daily missions. 
    I can only see a big reason of skipping content of a game to go straight to the competitive side -- pvp and "server first kills." 

    Throughout my years of MMO's the most fun has been in the leveling. Particularly in the social aspect. Other than when returning to games after long periods of time have I found myself looking for an end game guild... Prior to that, friendships and such were built during the early game, and I would usually tackle high level content with that same crowd that I leveled with. 

    No wonder people write off so many games so quickly. 
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    edited August 2015
    IMO its not about speed but about entertainment. Yes, if you level too fast (like laserit said), it renders a huge part of the game world obsolete. On the other hand, if you level too slow, the game becomes so boring and tedious i just want to quit and play something more fun, specially when its full of dull fetch quests and dumb ai grind. If leveling is a bit slow, it needs to have fun leveling experience.

    Im really hoping more mmos remove the leveling system in favor of a new fresh character progression system, or at least implement level scaling like GW2 but both ways, up and down (based on the zone you are in, not on the player you are partying with)




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  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    To beat the dead horse... Since when did games "begin" at max level? As far as I've seen 98% of the game comes before hand... At max level it's just min maxing gear, reputations, challenge modes, etc...
    Since MMO devs started to add more levels and content only accessible via max level characters to their games causing the old content to become pointless (and it's a vicious circle because that content is all added at the end so the devs have to provide shortcuts so new players don't have longer to reach it...aka a faster leveling system).
  • Karnage69Karnage69 Member UncommonPosts: 323
    This is a subjective question. What is fast leveling to some may seem slow to others, etc. I personally enjoy slow leveling, as long as there are goals to achieve while leveling. The level grind is just that, a grind, when you do not put goals in there.

    For me, Vanguard:SoH, was what I considered to be "slow leveling" and I found it extremely entertaining to form my own goals while I leveled - things like "Clear this dungeon solo or with a group before it becomes trivial."

    Fast leveling is only relevant if the emphasis is on end game content. WoW, for me, lost its appeal to form goals while leveling as it seemed as if the entire game centered around raiding and end-game pvp.

    Food for thought.
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    edited August 2015
    I prefer a game with vertical and horizontal progression, where the vertical is a bit on the slower side and the horizontal a bit on the faster side.  That way you get a sense of advancement no matter your play style.  You still need a good variety and amount of content per level range in order to combat tedium and burnout.  The important thing is that you need the horizontal progression to take place from level 1, not only at high levels like some games do.

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    To put it short, if your player base finishes the game long before the one month recharge. I for one call that a failure in terms of leveling progression. What's the point of a subscription game if many players can complete it and leave long before the first month of release?
    while i agree with you, i think that is why mmo progression and longevity is fundamentally broken. They keep making mmos with the sole goal of racing to the end. They are just setting themselves up for disaster because they cant put up new content that fast so people leave.
    I say remove the race from the game and keep existing content fun and varied.




  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    edited August 2015
    To put it short, if your player base finishes the game long before the one month recharge. I for one call that a failure in terms of leveling progression. What's the point of a subscription game if many players can complete it and leave long before the first month of release?
    while i agree with you, i think that is why mmo progression and longevity is fundamentally broken. They keep making mmos with the sole goal of racing to the end. They are just setting themselves up for disaster because they cant put up new content that fast so people leave.
    I say remove the race from the game and keep existing content fun and varied.

    Perhaps the problem is that the current crop of developers seem a little too keen to cater to power gamers.  It might be good to have some games out there where the vocal power gamers don't set the pace of the games they have invaded, especially when they weren't the original target audience of the game.

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  • SomethingUnusualSomethingUnusual Member UncommonPosts: 546
    azarhal said:
    To beat the dead horse... Since when did games "begin" at max level? As far as I've seen 98% of the game comes before hand... At max level it's just min maxing gear, reputations, challenge modes, etc...
    Since MMO devs started to add more levels and content only accessible via max level characters to their games causing the old content to become pointless (and it's a vicious circle because that content is all added at the end so the devs have to provide shortcuts so new players don't have longer to reach it...aka a faster leveling system).
    So, just because there is an extended amount of high-level content, the early game is completely off the record? That makes no sense. The content is still there, and usually even changes in flavor text etc when beginning say a new class/race in most games... Or even in some games a complete rewrite of old content or additions to... I understand faster leveling in cases of "I've done this 10 times already." Everquest 2 I believe tackled the best solution on that: veteran xp bonuses, for each max level character the next receives an additional percentage of xp. 

    Also, a majority games may have different starting areas, different mid-level areas, different factions, different archtype play. Of which may be completely missed by the content skippers. 

    Why would they waste their time even modifying or creating it if the "majority" skips it? Short answer is the majority doesn't, they just remain silent and enjoy their [new] toy. 
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    To put it short, if your player base finishes the game long before the one month recharge. I for one call that a failure in terms of leveling progression. What's the point of a subscription game if many players can complete it and leave long before the first month of release?
    Well, the problem really is that devs there more or less consider leveling a tutorial for the raiding endgame. The players on the other hand often consider the game done when they hit max level.

    The problem really is that a game based on raiding don't need a 3 week tutorial playing solo while a game based on leveling need to take far longer so you get a bad compromize that turn off both types of players.

    If you want to make a great game for raiders then levels really are pointless. If you want to make a great game for open world levelers then it must focus on leveling and challenge the players as they do.

    Instead we get something that really makes most people bored pretty fast.You add a dash of uninspired instanced PvP, a little of the same crafting every game have and we get a recipe for mediocracy.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,976
    To me the leveling experience has always been the carrot.....Im not really into raiding or end game treadmills but I do enjoy gaining levels...It doesnt need to be very fast but I do like having something to always achieve.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    To put it short, if your player base finishes the game long before the one month recharge. I for one call that a failure in terms of leveling progression. What's the point of a subscription game if many players can complete it and leave long before the first month of release?
    while i agree with you, i think that is why mmo progression and longevity is fundamentally broken. They keep making mmos with the sole goal of racing to the end. They are just setting themselves up for disaster because they cant put up new content that fast so people leave.
    I say remove the race from the game and keep existing content fun and varied.

    Perhaps the problem is that the current crop of developers seem a little too keen to cater to power gamers.  It might be good to have some games out there where the vocal power gamers don't set the pace of the games they have invaded, especially when they weren't the original target audience of the game.
    When games hired beta testers they went for a cross section of gamers. Power gamers, casuals, role-players and got decent feedback.  Who else would pay to be beta testers now a days, only power players who want to know exactly what to do at launch and want a challenge.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • SighLentSighLent Member CommonPosts: 1
    Fast Leveling
  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    To put it short, if your player base finishes the game long before the one month recharge. I for one call that a failure in terms of leveling progression. What's the point of a subscription game if many players can complete it and leave long before the first month of release?
    You're pretty impressive if you finish MMORPGs (best-in-slot everything; all bosses down) in the first month!

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • pokrakpokrak Member UncommonPosts: 111
    I like it fast... leveling should be like tutorial long enough to learn mechanic 
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    Axehilt said:
    To put it short, if your player base finishes the game long before the one month recharge. I for one call that a failure in terms of leveling progression. What's the point of a subscription game if many players can complete it and leave long before the first month of release?
    You're pretty impressive if you finish MMORPGs (best-in-slot everything; all bosses down) in the first month!
    Thats the thing, best in slot everything isnt a requirement to finish a game. And taking all bosses down either if the bosses are not part of the main game but just a separate instance with the sole purpose of acquiring new gear.

    Top tier gear acquisition and instanced boss takedowns in an mmo is as unnecessary as finishing a single player game with 100% completion. Only power gamers care about that. And every mmo out there wants to cater to that group of players.




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