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Kitchen Sink Online and its worshippers: This is how we got here.

LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

"The bar was so low and gamers so excited that all you needed to become the CEO of a world-class MMORPG development firm was a website, a copy of 3DStudio and a FAQ that explained in delicious detail how your game was going to be the next big thing and just blow some “unnamed game” ... away by fixing all its problems and adding a laundry list of every feature anyone had wanted EVER." - Tipa, West Karana

That was written in 2009 about MMO gamers in 2001. It is now 2015.

If MMO gamers are consistent in anything, it is in a hope so blindly fanatical that it defies over a decade of history and their own experiences in the genre. 


There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

Comments

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082
    Loktofeit said:

    "The bar was so low and gamers so excited that all you needed to become the CEO of a world-class MMORPG development firm was a website, a copy of 3DStudio and a FAQ that explained in delicious detail how your game was going to be the next big thing and just blow some “unnamed game” ... away by fixing all its problems and adding a laundry list of every feature anyone had wanted EVER." - Tipa, West Karana

    That was written in 2009 about MMO gamers in 2001. It is now 2015.

    If MMO gamers are consistent in anything, it is in a hope so blindly fanatical that it defies over a decade of history and their own experiences in the genre. 


    Amen :proud: 

    Hope springs eternal 

    it is human nature to always find fresh cause for optimism

    Or maybe 

    There is a sucker/fool born every minute.

    Some or all of the above applies when i see some of the posts and comments about games that may or may not even be completed.

    And now, they even put up good hard cash, too. 

    Something i find so hard to understand at times.



  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    DarLorkar said:
    it is human nature to always find fresh cause for optimism

    Or maybe 

    There is a sucker/fool born every minute.


    I like that you can find both positive and negative ways to view that. It's a nice level of perspective. :) 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    Some things never change they just get masked different.
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035
    Gotta love press-release MMOs.  Especially if they have a CG promotional trailer.  :-)

    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,768
    Ya know, I think a bit of that was the technology boom that was going on at the time.   Going from Atari graphics to late 90's early 2000 graphics had everyone drooling.   Those were heady times my friend!

    But we have sort of plateaued in that respect now.   And people who were used to having games improve drastically year to year, have become disillusioned now.  Things just aren't changing fast enough for them.   They have caught up to the games of today and have surpassed them.  It seems everyone is waiting for games to catch up to them now. 

    Before we waited excitedly to see what would come next.

    Today we sit and say,   "When will we see something new?"  

     Things won't be changing as fast anymore and people can't accept that it seems.


    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    Following the MMORPG genre used to be so fun.  Probably more fun than playing most games.  To be young, dreaming and naive.  
  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552
    2001 - Games aim for  the stars and brag about how many features they have and often don't deliver on their lofty promises

    2015 - Big publisher games strip features out of games and try to sell it as progress and streamlining.

    I think I prefer the problem of 15 years ago, I guess the big dreamers still exist on Kickstarter though... 

     
  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628
    I don't trust game developers like I used to. Now they feel like car salesmen. Finding a good dev these days is like finding a good mechanic.
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,851
    Loktofeit said:

    "The bar was so low and gamers so excited that all you needed to become the CEO of a world-class MMORPG development firm was a website, a copy of 3DStudio and a FAQ that explained in delicious detail how your game was going to be the next big thing and just blow some “unnamed game” ... away by fixing all its problems and adding a laundry list of every feature anyone had wanted EVER." - Tipa, West Karana

    That was written in 2009 about MMO gamers in 2001. It is now 2015.

    If MMO gamers are consistent in anything, it is in a hope so blindly fanatical that it defies over a decade of history and their own experiences in the genre. 


    What this seems to be to me is gamers desperately looking for more in their MMO's.
    Something that's not heppening from the big guns in the game industry, and can't happen from small indies that are so far away on the funds.

    While that writer, and you, seem to be mocking all those gamers desperately searching, hoping, wanting, their desires have gone unfulfilled. For years.

    Once upon a time....

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,480
    2001 - Games aim for  the stars and brag about how many features they have and often don't deliver on their lofty promises


     
    I don't think that was as bad as you made out, the mmo following was more mature and less than what it was today. The bragging came after EQ2 and WOW, before then devs were pretty quiet and non bragging abot there mmo in development.

    Many of them all had NDA and not the paid beta money grabs you get today, although WOW didn't have an NDA for it's beta. Anyone could go to the forums and watch beta vids but you couldn't post unless you were in the beta.

    They didn't need to brag because it was all there for anyone to see.




  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Personal identification.

    I don't know what it is, but something in these people throws some switch internally and they attach their identity to these games as though the success or failure of said game determines their own self worth. I don't get it, but it is borderline on religion in some cases.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    Ya know, I think a bit of that was the technology boom that was going on at the time.   Going from Atari graphics to late 90's early 2000 graphics had everyone drooling.   Those were heady times my friend!

    I thought it wasn't until about 2005 or so that 3D graphics looked better than 2D.  The late 90s and early 2000s were a period of games rushing to make things 3D, even though it looked terrible.  I regard the late 90s especially as being a sort of "dark ages" of gaming between the good stuff of the late 80s and early to mid 90s and what came after games figured out how to do the Internet and properly use 3D.

    It also took games quite a while to figure out how to make controls work decently with 3D; how to do that with 2D graphics was solved many years earlier.  A lot of games didn't even try to make useful controls; rather, they'd give you an analog control stick on a gamepad that included a rumble pack to try to shake the controller out of your hands.

    Even to this day, I still think that 2D sprites look better than 3D models with few vertices and low resolution textures.  The first 3D game I played all that much was A Tale in the Desert in 2003, and I absolutely did not play it for the graphics and probably would have liked it more if it had been 2D.  Today, of course, we don't have to choose between ugly 3D graphics and pure 2D graphics; computers have enough processing power and memory to use smoother models with higher resolution textures.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    Quizzical said:
    Ya know, I think a bit of that was the technology boom that was going on at the time.   Going from Atari graphics to late 90's early 2000 graphics had everyone drooling.   Those were heady times my friend!

    I thought it wasn't until about 2005 or so that 3D graphics looked better than 2D.
    Guess you never played games like Quake 3 arena... or even the first Quake (rhetorical of course, I'm sure you played them).
    Compared to nowadays it has of course aged, but back then it was beating everything 2D.

    EDIT1: And saying that the 90s are the dark age of gaming is a bit weird if not nonsensical, since that's the period during which thanks to actors like ID, the move from 2D to 3D was made. The 90s were both evolutionary and revolutionary.

    EDIT2: And about controllers... It was actually Doom which made people use the optimal "WASD"+mouse setting which is still in use nowadays, with variants of course but the base mechanism is the same. And that was in 1993 right ?

    Come on... I'm also a child of the 80s and I have many fantastic memories from notably C=64 and Amiga games, but the 90s were also an awesome period to live as a gamer.
    Were the late 90s heady times for fans of first-person shooters?  Perhaps.  But I'm not one.  If I'm fighting with the camera or the controls more so than the task that is nominally the objective of the game, I'm probably going to hate the game.  And fighting with a camera that doesn't let you see very much is nearly intrinsic to first-person anything.

    Which games are good and which aren't is a matter of opinion.  How many games that released between 1997 and 2002 did I actually like?  Infantry, Europa Unversalis II, and I can't think of another.  Great games both, but that's two games in six years.  Presumably there were other games in that time that I'd have liked, but I couldn't find them--even with the then-newfangled magic of the Internet, which is how I found Infantry and EU2.  So I spent a lot of time in that era playing old SNES games.

    Perhaps that makes me sound like the old geezers who insist that gaming was much better X years ago and the entire industry has fallen apart since then.  But here's the difference:  to me, the drought ended, and I only even regarded it as a drought years later in retrospect.  It's not just that I had a much easier time finding games I liked before the 1997-2002 period.  I've also had a much easier time since then.  Today, I've found released games that I'm interested in playing but haven't gotten to yet, and other not-that-old games that I've quit for a while but intend to go back to.
  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    EDIT2: And about controllers... It was actually Doom which made people use the optimal "WASD"+mouse setting which is still in use nowadays, with variants of course but the base mechanism is the same. And that was in 1993 right ?
    Wait.  Doom allowed mouse usage?  All I recall was arrow key movement with <ctrl> key firing.  My memory is poor, so I could be misremembering.

    VG

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    I think there was a drop in quality once games started hitting 3D.  But I think some of that was the problem of bring 2D game play into 3D worlds and it seemed many games were just very short.  Maybe it was me.  Local coop seemed to start to leave as well.  
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    I think there was a drop in quality once games started hitting 3D.  But I think some of that was the problem of bring 2D game play into 3D worlds and it seemed many games were just very short.  Maybe it was me.  Local coop seemed to start to leave as well.  
    Part of what crapped up the 3D games was that multimedia computer systems were becoming very popular, so game devs were adding song, voiceover, live action video, and whatever else they could find to show off they were cutting edge or multimedia or whatever. It was more about the game development features than about the game play features.

    There was a lot of atrocious garbage made in the late 90s that would probably been really great games if they focused more on making the game and less trying to hit all the 3D/multimedia checkboxes. 

    The early 90s saw lots of games that got innovative with current tech, and made great games in the process. Some examples would be 7th Guest, Wing Commander, Myst, and Full Throttle.  Once 3D cards were mainstream the main focus and selling points of many games was "3D Graphics!"

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    edited October 2015

    EDIT2: And about controllers... It was actually Doom which made people use the optimal "WASD"+mouse setting which is still in use nowadays, with variants of course but the base mechanism is the same. And that was in 1993 right ?
    Wait.  Doom allowed mouse usage?  All I recall was arrow key movement with <ctrl> key firing.  My memory is poor, so I could be misremembering.
    "Most of the play commands in DOOM are a simple keypress away. You can use either your keyboard, mouse, joystick, and combinations of both to move, pick up items, shoot, and open doors."

    DOOM Manual.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    Loktofeit said:

    EDIT2: And about controllers... It was actually Doom which made people use the optimal "WASD"+mouse setting which is still in use nowadays, with variants of course but the base mechanism is the same. And that was in 1993 right ?
    Wait.  Doom allowed mouse usage?  All I recall was arrow key movement with <ctrl> key firing.  My memory is poor, so I could be misremembering.
    "Most of the play commands in DOOM are a simple keypress away. You can use either your keyboard, mouse, joystick, and combinations of both to move, pick up items, shoot, and open doors."

    DOOM Manual.
    Damn!  A mouse would have been nice as moving with my right hand is not "natural" for me.  Pays to read manuals, eh?

    VG

  • Fractal_AnalogyFractal_Analogy Member UncommonPosts: 350
    edited October 2015
    Loktofeit said:

    EDIT2: And about controllers... It was actually Doom which made people use the optimal "WASD"+mouse setting which is still in use nowadays, with variants of course but the base mechanism is the same. And that was in 1993 right ?
    Wait.  Doom allowed mouse usage?  All I recall was arrow key movement with <ctrl> key firing.  My memory is poor, so I could be misremembering.
    "Most of the play commands in DOOM are a simple keypress away. You can use either your keyboard, mouse, joystick, and combinations of both to move, pick up items, shoot, and open doors."

    DOOM Manual.
    Damn!  A mouse would have been nice as moving with my right hand is not "natural" for me.  Pays to read manuals, eh?

    Everyone played doomed with the inverted-T/wasd and the mouse. How else could you play?



  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    Loktofeit said:

    EDIT2: And about controllers... It was actually Doom which made people use the optimal "WASD"+mouse setting which is still in use nowadays, with variants of course but the base mechanism is the same. And that was in 1993 right ?
    Wait.  Doom allowed mouse usage?  All I recall was arrow key movement with <ctrl> key firing.  My memory is poor, so I could be misremembering.
    "Most of the play commands in DOOM are a simple keypress away. You can use either your keyboard, mouse, joystick, and combinations of both to move, pick up items, shoot, and open doors."

    DOOM Manual.
    Damn!  A mouse would have been nice as moving with my right hand is not "natural" for me.  Pays to read manuals, eh?
    Everyone played doomed with the inverted-T/wasd and the mouse. How else could you play?

    As I said before, arrow keys and (I think) the <ctrl> key to fire.  I must be a "nobody."

    OT: The OP was superb.  We MMO players do expect everything and then some, with surprises we never thought of thrown in, for innovation's sake.  A touch unrealistic, I think.

    VG

  • Fractal_AnalogyFractal_Analogy Member UncommonPosts: 350
    edited October 2015
    How did you look up or down? Or am I thinking of Doom2 ?
  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,768
    Quizzical said:
    Ya know, I think a bit of that was the technology boom that was going on at the time.   Going from Atari graphics to late 90's early 2000 graphics had everyone drooling.   Those were heady times my friend!

    I thought it wasn't until about 2005 or so that 3D graphics looked better than 2D.  The late 90s and early 2000s were a period of games rushing to make things 3D, even though it looked terrible.  I regard the late 90s especially as being a sort of "dark ages" of gaming between the good stuff of the late 80s and early to mid 90s and what came after games figured out how to do the Internet and properly use 3D.

    It also took games quite a while to figure out how to make controls work decently with 3D; how to do that with 2D graphics was solved many years earlier.  A lot of games didn't even try to make useful controls; rather, they'd give you an analog control stick on a gamepad that included a rumble pack to try to shake the controller out of your hands.

    Even to this day, I still think that 2D sprites look better than 3D models with few vertices and low resolution textures.  The first 3D game I played all that much was A Tale in the Desert in 2003, and I absolutely did not play it for the graphics and probably would have liked it more if it had been 2D.  Today, of course, we don't have to choose between ugly 3D graphics and pure 2D graphics; computers have enough processing power and memory to use smoother models with higher resolution textures.
    Its a perspective thing for sure.

    I think a game changer for me was playing the first Tomb Raider game on the PS1.   That was just mind blowing to me that we could now move in 3D.  Fun times.

    I am sure most people had similar experiences at some point.   Those experiences seem to be fewer to come by these days though.   We seemed to be numbed to new advances in technology anymore.   It all happens so fast now, it blends together.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

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