Do the sources the Escapist used have access to CIG's financial information? That would certainly change things if they did but I haven't seen an indication that is the case, which makes Saxx0n's analogy valid whereas yours is not.
This ^ CIG could have made a solid argument in both the Rebuttal and C&D letters that no vetting was done to verify the people making the allegations were in position to actually see the relevant info. Unfortunately they took a different tack
Except they didn't with makes everyone suspicious as to why they didn't just address the claims. For all we know it could be someone higher up who has a pretty good idea of where the financials stand, opposite could also be true of a night cleaner who would have no idea lol.
You'd be surprised how much cleaners know
But yeah, as far as we know one of the sources could be Mayberry himself.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Committing fraud (scamming) is already a crime, that's the worst that can happen, and there are laws to protect against it. Hence all the hoopla right now CR and crew are facing.. So what more regulation is needed?
Oh I don't know... mandatory quarterly financial reports for any KS project over 100K? Too much to ask for?
Aside from the fact that I'm not a fan of over regulation on what is essentially a private affair between donor and recipient. What good would that really do? Most wouldn't know what they're looking at, secondly most wouldn't understand half the expenses in relation to a Dev studio, that would cause more confusion than we see now IMO.
Being a private business is a choice companies make, a funding source is a funding source like any other. Be it private donation private investor or public investment. You're essentially stripping a company of choice on how to do business. One that is afforded to any other company in the US as far as I am aware..
So "over regulation" is a bad thing? No shit, Sherlock. Otherwise it wouldn't be called "over." What about "under regulation?" Are you equally not a fan of that?
Apparently you buy into the corporate narrative that everything would be just hunky-dory if those evil regulators would just leave us the fuck alone. Can't blame you though since that's the core message fed to you by corporations, government and the media in your brave new manipulated world.
And please, "most wouldn't understand"? You're saying a lot there about your education system but whatever... there are enough who would understand it and could explain it in tiny twitter bite-sized language to their dimmer cousins.
Transparency is a good thing... or has your confidence about that basic fact been undermined as well?
My point was this is an agreement between two parties, there are avenues available to seek if one side fails to live up to their part of the bargain. Anything more is stepping into grounds of denying a company to operate as any other does.
What does my education system have fuck all to do with understanding the costs and needs associated with game production? I wasn't referring to an ability to see if they are in the red or black, I'm referring to everyday costs, that none of those on the outside really ever hear nor see. Like I said I see it creating more confusion/drama than we see now.
Gotta love how hostile you sound though lol.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.
But people still need to follow the money.
Be logical here. Embezzlement is a very serious criminal charge. You have to have some hard evidence. Not just rumors and hear/say.
It would take some damning official company documents to start surfacing to even consider such a thing.
Lucky for us, in this western world we live in, we are innocent until proven guilty. A lot of people have given their lives over the centuries to give us these rights. Rights that can be torn down in an instant if society is not careful.
That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.
But people still need to follow the money.
Be logical here. Embezzlement is a very serious criminal charge. You have to have some hard evidence. Not just rumors and hear/say.
It would take some damning official company documents to start surfacing to even consider such a thing.
Lucky for us, in this western world we live in, we are innocent until proven guilty. A lot of people have given their lives over the centuries to give us these rights. Rights that can be torn down in an instant if society is not careful.
Again, as far as we know the sources of the Escapist are not rumors or hearsay.
If the Escapist interviewed someone that knows someone that worked at CIG then it would be hersay. That is not the case.
It would not even need evidence if these sources repeated the allegations under oath. An investigation would be started automatically since some of these are federal crimes.
Unfortunately innocent until proven guilty does not exist in the US any more neither does Habeas Corpus. Both have been removed by the Patriot Act.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.
But people still need to follow the money.
Be logical here. Embezzlement is a very serious criminal charge. You have to have some hard evidence. Not just rumors and hear/say.
It would take some damning official company documents to start surfacing to even consider such a thing.
Lucky for us, in this western world we live in, we are innocent until proven guilty. A lot of people have given their lives over the centuries to give us these rights. Rights that can be torn down in an instant if society is not careful.
Again, as far as we know the sources of the Escapist are not rumors or hearsay.
If the Escapist interviewed someone that knows someone that worked at CIG then it would be hersay. That is not the case.
It would not even need evidence if these sources repeated the allegations under oath. An investigation would be started automatically since some of these are federal crimes.
Unfortunately innocent until proven guilty does not exist in the US any more neither does Habeas Corpus. Both have been removed by the Patriot Act.
Actually as far as the financials "it was common knowledge" (direct quote) is in fact hearsay without supporting evidence.
EDIT doesn't mean it's wrong, doesn't mean it's right either merely rumor.
I'm still going to wait to see how this all pans out, but if there is DEFINITELY a flaw Roberts has, it is the inability to say "Ok. We have enough features now."
Seriously. Chris needs someone to sit next to him and wait for that sparkle in his eye to start and then yell no at him and hit him with a rolled up paper.
I don't know if that's a flaw or if it's just the nature of creative people like CR, Garriott, and other developers that create these amazing game worlds we play in. I wonder how many artists crap up what would have otherwise been a good painting, sculpture, or other work of art because they just went so overboard in their passion to make it the perfect masterpiece that it either never got finished or was just a big unweildy mess when it was done.
As an artist I can answer that for you: All the time.
There is always a desire to put just a bit more time, just a bit more detail, more colors here, another line there, and in the end it looks worse. I've gotten hours into a model project just to scrap it all out of frustration just because a single detail always looked wrong.
The irony being that the same attention to detail that makes a good artist is the same attention to detail that costs time and money to redo something that would have been just fine.
I second this.
Without having someone hover over your shoulder and give you definite boundaries and fixed timelines, even a great artist might make a muck of things.
It always starts with a little, then a little more, then maybe this thing here that thing there, wait I dint like that thing, lets redo that and put in this thing, but no lets change it back to compare it to the previous version and see which one of the two look good and then make a third version taking the best points from both of the older variants, but not before I change this part right here which I am not happy with, right after I redo...
And before you know it, you have invested a shit ton of man hours on something you cant even happily call a final product. So you are met with a catch-22 where you either sink in more time and resources to 'fix' or let it stay as it is with that nagging voice at the back of your head telling you it's all gone to hell in a handbasket.
This Chris Roberts needed some guidance from a managerial perspective right from the start. If his history has shown anything, it's that the man has got some skills in making games but no skills in running a company. Of course many of the faithful will disagree, but they are entitled to their opinions and I couldnt care less about what they think.
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I was banned for pointing out the obvious faults in a game 2 months before it released. Now after release, repeating the very same words from back then would be like preaching to the choir on this site.
Seems to me Erin and Chris together are a good team.
Have fun
Yeah not really though... back in Origin Systems days it was really Richard Garriott and Warren Spector it seems that are the project managers, and they delivers.
Erin was another creative guys, that's why Digital Anvil seems to suffer similar sort of problems when they were making Freelancer and Starlancer.
Hmm, looking at Erin Roberts profiles (LinkedIn, MobyGames and IMDB) i find very little evidence that he was "another of the creative guys". Yes, in his early career you see him working a bit on art.
But at least for the last 10 years he almost exclusively worked in project/programme management (usually at Director level). Quite successfully it seems, as his games seem to have been quite profitable.
He is the designer of Privateer series and the later Wing Commander games actually so seems to me he is one of the creative guys.
Also, it is important to note that, while Digital Anvil did good and made good games, you might be negating the fact that they overran the project on Freelancer and Starlancer. Freelancer especially which the scope expanded so much so that they actually need Microsoft's money to finish it and overshoot by 3 years and 18 months. Microsoft pretty much have to reign them in on the scope.
So while yes they are successful together (not saying otherwise), they also have a history of not so good project management. If you have studied project management you will know that project management is about Time and Scope as well, not just Deliverables. If it was just deliverables that you are counting then yet CR and ER is doing fine, but you are ignoring the Time and Scope part.
So while yes they are successful together (not saying otherwise), they also have a history of not so good project management. If you have studied project management you will know that project management is about Time and Scope as well, not just Deliverables. If it was just deliverables that you are counting then yet CR and ER is doing fine, but you are ignoring the Time and Scope part.
Time and scope = resource required.
Yes, I am aware of the Project Management Triangle. Its been my job for the last two decades.
I am not ignoring the things you mentioned. But you may want to take a closer look at the last 10 years of Erin Robert's successful project management career ... which had basically nothing to do with Wing Commander or Freelancer, but instead one successful LEGO computer game after the other. Maybe he just got better, learning from the mistakes he made early in his career ?
In my opinion Erin knows what he is doing. And Chris knows what makes SC great - better than other games.
I (personally) give them the time needed to prove it.
That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.
But people still need to follow the money.
An anonymous source told me you have not been paying your taxes. We are going to freeze your bank account and all assets until an investigation into your finances is completed to see if this is the case. Let your mom run the show until we get it all worked out.
Of course just an example. Are you ok with this course of action?
You are confusing anonymous source with "anonymized". The sources of The Escapist are not anonymous. They are known and confirmed ex-employees that asked not to be named in person.
There is a HUGE difference between that and what you used as an example.
If the IRS has a confirmed source with possible access to your financial information saying you falsified your tax records they will investigate and then freeze your assets. Nothing crazy about that.
You missed the point.
Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
I am not ignoring the things you mentioned. But you may want to take a closer look at the last 10 years of Erin Robert's successful project management career ... which had basically nothing to do with Wing Commander or Freelancer, but instead one successful LEGO computer game after the other. Maybe he just got better, learning from the mistakes he made early in his career ?
In my opinion Erin knows what he is doing. And Chris knows what makes SC great - better than other games.
I (personally) give them the time needed to prove it.
I am not trying to say that you know nothing about project management I'm just saying that IF you know project management as I don't know your background... no need to paste link everywhere imo that doesn't help as I'm not even trying to debate you. I'm just making some comments here of what I see
I think in terms of the LEGO games than you've mention, it is a valid point but it is also not a like-for-like comparsion though - because well those LEGO games might just be a job that needs done for him so he might care less.
Whereas it is well known that the Roberts brothers loves space and space sims. It is their passion. It seems to me that they might be a bit over zealous about the details on those games because it is what they love. And the previous example of what happened to Freelancer and Starlancer seems to indicate that (beautiful game, way ahead of their time artistically when it was release even when it was late, however they were still significantly late on it).
That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.
But people still need to follow the money.
An anonymous source told me you have not been paying your taxes. We are going to freeze your bank account and all assets until an investigation into your finances is completed to see if this is the case. Let your mom run the show until we get it all worked out.
Of course just an example. Are you ok with this course of action?
You are confusing anonymous source with "anonymized". The sources of The Escapist are not anonymous. They are known and confirmed ex-employees that asked not to be named in person.
There is a HUGE difference between that and what you used as an example.
If the IRS has a confirmed source with possible access to your financial information saying you falsified your tax records they will investigate and then freeze your assets. Nothing crazy about that.
You missed the point.
Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
There have been credible sources. That is enough.
If a DA becomes interested in this and if these sources repeat these allegations to a DA then there will be an investigation and a criminal charge. Multiple eye witnesses are proof enough. Some of these allegations are a mater of federal jurisdiction.
I know you will deny this again so let's just leave it at that and we shall see what will happen in the next few months.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
So while yes they are successful together (not saying otherwise), they also have a history of not so good project management. If you have studied project management you will know that project management is about Time and Scope as well, not just Deliverables. If it was just deliverables that you are counting then yet CR and ER is doing fine, but you are ignoring the Time and Scope part.
Time and scope = resource required.
Yes, I am aware of the Project Management Triangle. Its been my job for the last two decades.
I am not ignoring the things you mentioned. But you may want to take a closer look at the last 10 years of Erin Robert's successful project management career ... which had basically nothing to do with Wing Commander or Freelancer, but instead one successful LEGO computer game after the other. Maybe he just got better, learning from the mistakes he made early in his career ?
In my opinion Erin knows what he is doing. And Chris knows what makes SC great - better than other games.
I (personally) give them the time needed to prove it.
Have fun
I'll have to support you here. I asked around the old Origin folks I know, and while they pretty uniformly dislike and have little respect for Chris, no one really has anything bad to say about Erin. And Erin is in the unique position of being relatively competent and apparently capable of working with Chris. Personally, imo it's a good hire.
Especially since those much ballyhoo'd industry professionals jumped ship within a year of seeing what things were really like on the inside. Remember discussing that when they came in?
Like I told you a long time ago, 'Long and bumpy road....'
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.
But people still need to follow the money.
An anonymous source told me you have not been paying your taxes. We are going to freeze your bank account and all assets until an investigation into your finances is completed to see if this is the case. Let your mom run the show until we get it all worked out.
Of course just an example. Are you ok with this course of action?
You are confusing anonymous source with "anonymized". The sources of The Escapist are not anonymous. They are known and confirmed ex-employees that asked not to be named in person.
There is a HUGE difference between that and what you used as an example.
If the IRS has a confirmed source with possible access to your financial information saying you falsified your tax records they will investigate and then freeze your assets. Nothing crazy about that.
You missed the point.
Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
There have been credible sources. That is enough.
If a DA becomes interested in this and if these sources repeat these allegations to a DA then there will be an investigation and a criminal charge. Multiple eye witnesses are proof enough. Some of these allegations are a mater of federal jurisdiction.
I know you will deny this again so let's just leave it at that and we shall see what will happen in the next few months.
I agree, but the problem is, where's the investigation? At this point it's just finger pointing and accusation by faceless people, yeah they know who they are, but what use is that to everyone else? Another question is, why didn't they take this straight to a DA? Why wait for one to become interested? IMHO why not just do it right instead of this obscure hidden way.
That is all fine and great, but CR needs to be removed and records need to be shown if he did embezzle any funds. Heck Maybe he didn't but his wife did. It is time to put up or shut up CR. Let your brother run the show and get it all worked out.
But people still need to follow the money.
An anonymous source told me you have not been paying your taxes. We are going to freeze your bank account and all assets until an investigation into your finances is completed to see if this is the case. Let your mom run the show until we get it all worked out.
Of course just an example. Are you ok with this course of action?
You are confusing anonymous source with "anonymized". The sources of The Escapist are not anonymous. They are known and confirmed ex-employees that asked not to be named in person.
There is a HUGE difference between that and what you used as an example.
If the IRS has a confirmed source with possible access to your financial information saying you falsified your tax records they will investigate and then freeze your assets. Nothing crazy about that.
You missed the point.
Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
There have been credible sources. That is enough.
If a DA becomes interested in this and if these sources repeat these allegations to a DA then there will be an investigation and a criminal charge. Multiple eye witnesses are proof enough. Some of these allegations are a mater of federal jurisdiction.
I know you will deny this again so let's just leave it at that and we shall see what will happen in the next few months.
I agree, but the problem is, where's the investigation? At this point it's just finger pointing and accusation by faceless people, yeah they know who they are, but what use is that to everyone else? Another question is, why didn't they take this straight to a DA? Why wait for one to become interested? IMHO why not just do it right instead of this obscure hidden way.
Because you can't just walk up to a DA and tell them what to do. These are busy officials that can't just drop every other case on their desk. I am pretty sure that after these federal crime accusations have been printed that someone is already looking into it and deciding if it is enough to pursue it legally. These things usually don't just go away.
Right now CIG needs to put up or shut up. They either need to fight these accusations in court or shut up and hope it goes away. They can also address these issue at citizenCon and make it a huge media circus by going on stage and showing their black and 40+ employees for example. Not that this proofs anything but it will satisfy most of the sheep to buy the next ships that go on sale.
I am looking forward to Saturday. It will be interesting to see how they approach this.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Right now CIG needs to put up or shut up. They either need to fight these accusations in court or shut up and hope it goes away.
I am pretty sure it has to go to court before anyone need to defend anything... And going by your logic there could be years before this case get priority.. as you said.. they are busy people.
Right now CIG needs to put up or shut up. They either need to fight these accusations in court or shut up and hope it goes away.
I am pretty sure it has to go to court before anyone need to defend anything... And going by your logic there could be years before this case get priority.. as you said.. they are busy people.
Their "lawyer" threatened to file suit if The Escapist does not apologize and retract the story. So now they need to make good on the thread or look like a paper tiger. There is a difference between filing a civil or criminal suit and the DA stepping in prosecuting. These are completely different things.
If CIG files a suit we know within 48 hours because it is part of the public record. After that we will most likely hear nothing for quite some time. Filing a suit takes a couple of days. You fill out the legal form, have your attorney send it to the venue (courthouse) you want to file at, have someone server the defendant and you are done. Then you wait for the hearing.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
And that is part of the problem, CIG think its being open by releasing a bunch of concept images of a ship they are trying to sell. Even the new video that they just released shows a pre-visualized explosion of the constellation. So again something not even in game, with who knows how long to put in game and with no idea if it is even possible.
While another crowdfunded project just released an actual sneak peek into their work, done in game (not pre-rendered or pre-visualized).
And that is part of the problem, CIG think its being open by releasing a bunch of concept images of a ship they are trying to sell. Even the new video that they just released shows a pre-visualized explosion of the constellation. So again something not even in game, with who knows how long to put in game and with no idea if it is even possible.
While another crowdfunded project just released an actual sneak peek into their work, done in game (not pre-rendered or pre-visualized).
Did you even watch the video? The pre concept junk at the end wasn't really the point of it. As for ED which I backed as well it's a different type of game and while I enjoy it is indeed a mile wide and an inch deep.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I will toss out a keyword here because i still see many people don't do it....."think"
First of all none of know anything for fact,unless we can read the mind of said female. I just want to point out that people do need to think before making a conclusion.
So dud in the video shows some videos of Black people and older people.Ahemmm>think
You THINK perhaps it is possible she had NO part of their hiring?She was only brought into the forefront AFTER the fact.It is possible somebody else hired them ,example Chris or who knows who else.At least one of those other employees shown was a long time friend/working associate of Chris ,so again she would have no part in that.
videos....Well this assumption again would claim that just because you see some people smiling in a video that it is that way 100% of the time,which would be FALSE...bzzzzzzzz wrong.Example they might have video tape or any video shown to the public is no way in hell going to show anything negative,i mean seriously c'mon now.My point is that it is VERY easy to search and pick out some video footage that supports your theory,it still does not make it FACT.
Things change over the course of time,bosses can be happy great one day and sons of Beeotches the next.
One last comment again only because i have been around a very long time and seen things.Now this is of course not fact just an objective viewpoint by me.It is VERY possible that when things started to struggle at CGI and Chris brought his successful brother and wife on board or promote them to the top,Chris's demeanor could change a LOT.Chris does not want to appear as a failure to his wife or Brother so it is VERY possible those bosses could get agitated angry to the point of not being the same cheerful people from day 1.When you are the face of the operation there is a lot of pressure to succeed and always look good,if things don't happen smoothly there is a tendency to BLAME others.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
And that is part of the problem, CIG think its being open by releasing a bunch of concept images of a ship they are trying to sell. Even the new video that they just released shows a pre-visualized explosion of the constellation. So again something not even in game, with who knows how long to put in game and with no idea if it is even possible.
While another crowdfunded project just released an actual sneak peek into their work, done in game (not pre-rendered or pre-visualized).
Did you even watch the video? The pre concept junk at the end wasn't really the point of it. As for ED which I backed as well it's a different type of game and while I enjoy it is indeed a mile wide and an inch deep.
I watched it, its a bunch of nothing, because CIG are not even close to implementing any of the features used by that ship, nor is that ship even close to them even thinking of making it. Its nothing but a bunch of hype created to sell ships.
Sandi Gardiner has been part of the project since day one and was responsible, amongst other things like hiring, for the KS and CF campaign and therefor the marketing of the project.
Erin Roberts initially was responsible for studio Foundry42 but/and? took over the Executive Producer position... well to get things done and show his brother the limits (as he did in the past).
What's wrong about hype? You guys never hyped for something? Like a movie or sports game? Or another video game?
It's like waiting for Christmas as a child. You hoped for the things you wished for but never could be sure. Well some may say "but we are grown ups now" but feeding the child in you is nothing wrong and makes you more sympathetic. Acting tough is just a mask.
Nothing stops the Cole train baby!
But keep on hating guys if that makes you happier. That's impossible by the way.
Considering the threat to the Escapist... I could imagine it's a fad and no one will talk about it IF CIG manages to release version 1.3 soon including FPS, AC 2.0 and the large world map (which will be opened up as more content is released eventually (landing zones, game mechanics, etc.) for testing.
After all, the modules are testbeds for the backers with alpha access. Critics tend to ignore that fact.
edit update:
Chris Roberts could have taken a different part (like ED for example) and build on existing and proven tech and just say:
I want to build a new Wing Commander and it will be done in 2015.
But he wanted to do things new... push the boundaries of what was possible in the gaming industry at that time. Something he had done before (even if was a long time ago).
And of course, when you try something completely new, you cannot plan everything and things go wrong and not according to plan. That is the prize of doing things new and in a different way. Doing things completely new is definitely prone to errors. Heck... there is no development if no errors are made. But if I want to play a "new" CoD, FIFA, AC, FC then that's ok. I enjoyed most AC games and the first CoDs. FIFA lost me a long time ago.
Before Star Citizen the PC gaming industry was lagging a bit behind especially in the space sim genre.
Since Chris Roberts first announcement there have been plenty of games targeting the space game genre (does not matter if for PC and/or consoles) that could have been inspired by this. Some developers even clearly admitted that.
And no one can deny that people enthusiastically yelled YES and flooded him with money which surprised everybody. That's how Star Citizen became the biggest crowdfunding project in history with two world records.
It it was an outcry by gamers who were sick of yearly game releases, the same game mechanics with updated graphics and no real aspiration and inspiration. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy a lot of games but in the end it felt like grinding like in MMOs (like searching the map for collectibles, cleaning the map of enemy camps, etc.). Sometimes it felt like a real waste of time.
And I'm not declining that there have been games that did something new and therefor stood out.
So Chris Roberts took the hard way... and hard it is as we can see by the huuuuuge amount of discussions all around the web... no way of declining that.
There are always two sides of the medal.
When I play I want to sit there with my mouth open, emotionally attached and immersed... not feeling hypnotized and somehow bored.
Can Star Citizen do that for me/us?
I do not know for sure. But maybe in that big present under the Christmas tree there is what I wished for.
Sandi Gardiner has been part of the project since day one and was responsible, amongst other things like hiring, for the KS and CF campaign and therefor the marketing of the project.
Erin Roberts initially was responsible for studio Foundry42 but/and? took over the Executive Producer position... well to get things done and show his brother the limits (as he did in the past).
What's wrong about hype? You guys never hyped for something? Like a movie or sports game? Or another video game?
It's like waiting for Christmas as a child. You hoped for the things you wished for but never could be sure. Well some may say "but we are grown ups now" but feeding the child in you is nothing wrong and makes you more sympathetic. Acting tough is just a mask.
Nothing stops the Cole train baby!
But keep on hating guys if that makes you happier. That's impossible by the way.
Considering the threat to the Escapist... I could imagine it's a fad and no one will talk about it IF CIG manages to release version 1.3 soon including FPS, AC 2.0 and the large world map (which will be opened up as more content is released eventually (landing zones, game mechanics, etc.) for testing.
After all the modules are testbeds for the backers with alpha access. Critics tend to ignore that fact.
I agree with most of what you said here. I will say this, and this is my personal opinion, hype =/= excitement. Hype to me is almost a bad word, as it generally means over promising and under delivering. This website itself does this from time to time, talking about how wonderful a games supposed 'features' are going to be and in reality they are not at all as described. Be excited, nothing wrong with that.
Comments
But yeah, as far as we know one of the sources could be Mayberry himself.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
What does my education system have fuck all to do with understanding the costs and needs associated with game production? I wasn't referring to an ability to see if they are in the red or black, I'm referring to everyday costs, that none of those on the outside really ever hear nor see. Like I said I see it creating more confusion/drama than we see now.
Gotta love how hostile you sound though lol.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Be logical here. Embezzlement is a very serious criminal charge. You have to have some hard evidence. Not just rumors and hear/say.
It would take some damning official company documents to start surfacing to even consider such a thing.
Lucky for us, in this western world we live in, we are innocent until proven guilty. A lot of people have given their lives over the centuries to give us these rights. Rights that can be torn down in an instant if society is not careful.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
If the Escapist interviewed someone that knows someone that worked at CIG then it would be hersay. That is not the case.
It would not even need evidence if these sources repeated the allegations under oath. An investigation would be started automatically since some of these are federal crimes.
Unfortunately innocent until proven guilty does not exist in the US any more neither does Habeas Corpus. Both have been removed by the Patriot Act.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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Actually as far as the financials "it was common knowledge" (direct quote) is in fact hearsay without supporting evidence.
EDIT doesn't mean it's wrong, doesn't mean it's right either merely rumor.
Without having someone hover over your shoulder and give you definite boundaries and fixed timelines, even a great artist might make a muck of things.
It always starts with a little, then a little more, then maybe this thing here that thing there, wait I dint like that thing, lets redo that and put in this thing, but no lets change it back to compare it to the previous version and see which one of the two look good and then make a third version taking the best points from both of the older variants, but not before I change this part right here which I am not happy with, right after I redo...
And before you know it, you have invested a shit ton of man hours on something you cant even happily call a final product. So you are met with a catch-22 where you either sink in more time and resources to 'fix' or let it stay as it is with that nagging voice at the back of your head telling you it's all gone to hell in a handbasket.
This Chris Roberts needed some guidance from a managerial perspective right from the start. If his history has shown anything, it's that the man has got some skills in making games but no skills in running a company. Of course many of the faithful will disagree, but they are entitled to their opinions and I couldnt care less about what they think.
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Now after release, repeating the very same words from back then would be like preaching to the choir on this site.
Also, it is important to note that, while Digital Anvil did good and made good games, you might be negating the fact that they overran the project on Freelancer and Starlancer. Freelancer especially which the scope expanded so much so that they actually need Microsoft's money to finish it and overshoot by 3 years and 18 months. Microsoft pretty much have to reign them in on the scope.
So while yes they are successful together (not saying otherwise), they also have a history of not so good project management. If you have studied project management you will know that project management is about Time and Scope as well, not just Deliverables. If it was just deliverables that you are counting then yet CR and ER is doing fine, but you are ignoring the Time and Scope part.
Time and scope = resource required.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_management_triangle
I am not ignoring the things you mentioned. But you may want to take a closer look at the last 10 years of Erin Robert's successful project management career ... which had basically nothing to do with Wing Commander or Freelancer, but instead one successful LEGO computer game after the other. Maybe he just got better, learning from the mistakes he made early in his career ?
In my opinion Erin knows what he is doing. And Chris knows what makes SC great - better than other games.
I (personally) give them the time needed to prove it.
Have fun
Regardless of the term used, there have been presently absolutely no credible facts or proof whatsoever to warrant or suggest "any" action. You missed the point of the fact that credible evidence or proof is needed to move forward with any type of action concerning forensic investigation, not use forensic investigation to possibly uncover a crime or wrongdoings.
Life IS Feudal
I think in terms of the LEGO games than you've mention, it is a valid point but it is also not a like-for-like comparsion though - because well those LEGO games might just be a job that needs done for him so he might care less.
Whereas it is well known that the Roberts brothers loves space and space sims. It is their passion. It seems to me that they might be a bit over zealous about the details on those games because it is what they love. And the previous example of what happened to Freelancer and Starlancer seems to indicate that (beautiful game, way ahead of their time artistically when it was release even when it was late, however they were still significantly late on it).
If a DA becomes interested in this and if these sources repeat these allegations to a DA then there will be an investigation and a criminal charge. Multiple eye witnesses are proof enough. Some of these allegations are a mater of federal jurisdiction.
I know you will deny this again so let's just leave it at that and we shall see what will happen in the next few months.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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Especially since those much ballyhoo'd industry professionals jumped ship within a year of seeing what things were really like on the inside. Remember discussing that when they came in?
Like I told you a long time ago, 'Long and bumpy road....'
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Right now CIG needs to put up or shut up. They either need to fight these accusations in court or shut up and hope it goes away. They can also address these issue at citizenCon and make it a huge media circus by going on stage and showing their black and 40+ employees for example. Not that this proofs anything but it will satisfy most of the sheep to buy the next ships that go on sale.
I am looking forward to Saturday. It will be interesting to see how they approach this.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
This have been a good conversation
If CIG files a suit we know within 48 hours because it is part of the public record. After that we will most likely hear nothing for quite some time. Filing a suit takes a couple of days. You fill out the legal form, have your attorney send it to the venue (courthouse) you want to file at, have someone server the defendant and you are done. Then you wait for the hearing.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
While another crowdfunded project just released an actual sneak peek into their work, done in game (not pre-rendered or pre-visualized).
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
First of all none of know anything for fact,unless we can read the mind of said female.
I just want to point out that people do need to think before making a conclusion.
So dud in the video shows some videos of Black people and older people.Ahemmm>think
You THINK perhaps it is possible she had NO part of their hiring?She was only brought into the forefront AFTER the fact.It is possible somebody else hired them ,example Chris or who knows who else.At least one of those other employees shown was a long time friend/working associate of Chris ,so again she would have no part in that.
videos....Well this assumption again would claim that just because you see some people smiling in a video that it is that way 100% of the time,which would be FALSE...bzzzzzzzz wrong.Example they might have video tape or any video shown to the public is no way in hell going to show anything negative,i mean seriously c'mon now.My point is that it is VERY easy to search and pick out some video footage that supports your theory,it still does not make it FACT.
Things change over the course of time,bosses can be happy great one day and sons of Beeotches the next.
One last comment again only because i have been around a very long time and seen things.Now this is of course not fact just an objective viewpoint by me.It is VERY possible that when things started to struggle at CGI and Chris brought his successful brother and wife on board or promote them to the top,Chris's demeanor could change a LOT.Chris does not want to appear as a failure to his wife or Brother so it is VERY possible those bosses could get agitated angry to the point of not being the same cheerful people from day 1.When you are the face of the operation there is a lot of pressure to succeed and always look good,if things don't happen smoothly there is a tendency to BLAME others.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I'm very curious to see if CIG makes good on their threat to TheEscapist. I personally don't think they will for various sticky reasons.
Erin Roberts initially was responsible for studio Foundry42 but/and? took over the Executive Producer position... well to get things done and show his brother the limits (as he did in the past).
What's wrong about hype? You guys never hyped for something? Like a movie or sports game? Or another video game?
It's like waiting for Christmas as a child. You hoped for the things you wished for but never could be sure. Well some may say "but we are grown ups now" but feeding the child in you is nothing wrong and makes you more sympathetic. Acting tough is just a mask.
Nothing stops the Cole train baby!
But keep on hating guys if that makes you happier. That's impossible by the way.
Considering the threat to the Escapist... I could imagine it's a fad and no one will talk about it IF CIG manages to release version 1.3 soon including FPS, AC 2.0 and the large world map (which will be opened up as more content is released eventually (landing zones, game mechanics, etc.) for testing.
After all, the modules are testbeds for the backers with alpha access. Critics tend to ignore that fact.
edit update:
Chris Roberts could have taken a different part (like ED for example) and build on existing and proven tech and just say:
I want to build a new Wing Commander and it will be done in 2015.
But he wanted to do things new... push the boundaries of what was possible in the gaming industry at that time. Something he had done before (even if was a long time ago).
And of course, when you try something completely new, you cannot plan everything and things go wrong and not according to plan. That is the prize of doing things new and in a different way. Doing things completely new is definitely prone to errors. Heck... there is no development if no errors are made. But if I want to play a "new" CoD, FIFA, AC, FC then that's ok. I enjoyed most AC games and the first CoDs. FIFA lost me a long time ago.
Before Star Citizen the PC gaming industry was lagging a bit behind especially in the space sim genre.
Since Chris Roberts first announcement there have been plenty of games targeting the space game genre (does not matter if for PC and/or consoles) that could have been inspired by this. Some developers even clearly admitted that.
And no one can deny that people enthusiastically yelled YES and flooded him with money which surprised everybody. That's how Star Citizen became the biggest crowdfunding project in history with two world records.
It it was an outcry by gamers who were sick of yearly game releases, the same game mechanics with updated graphics and no real aspiration and inspiration. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy a lot of games but in the end it felt like grinding like in MMOs (like searching the map for collectibles, cleaning the map of enemy camps, etc.). Sometimes it felt like a real waste of time.
And I'm not declining that there have been games that did something new and therefor stood out.
So Chris Roberts took the hard way... and hard it is as we can see by the huuuuuge amount of discussions all around the web... no way of declining that.
There are always two sides of the medal.
When I play I want to sit there with my mouth open, emotionally attached and immersed... not feeling hypnotized and somehow bored.
Can Star Citizen do that for me/us?
I do not know for sure. But maybe in that big present under the Christmas tree there is what I wished for.
I agree with most of what you said here. I will say this, and this is my personal opinion, hype =/= excitement. Hype to me is almost a bad word, as it generally means over promising and under delivering. This website itself does this from time to time, talking about how wonderful a games supposed 'features' are going to be and in reality they are not at all as described. Be excited, nothing wrong with that.