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Any good community forums?
seeyouspacec0wboy
Member UncommonPosts: 714
I like finding really strong community pages/forums for games I'm into. Has anything been set up for Pantheon yet?
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
Comments
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums
We look forward to a time when Pantheon's progress will dispel doubt and silence the haters. That time is not yet upon us. At that time they may consider reopening the forums to the public.
If it's constructive criticism but viewed by the mods and others than it's more akin to priviledged country club.
If you can't find one OP, try to create one yourself? Maybe you'll be surprised at how many you can bring together.
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
As for the OP, i wouldn't expect any serious fansites until the game is deep in alpha at the very least.
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
Tough questions? I guess if you mean questions based on rumors and gossip phrased in the form of an accusation and intent, sure... I guess you could twist that to mean "tough questions".
Heck, I am unsure if this game will make it to release, but I do notice progress when I see it and they have made progress here. I also have enjoyed Brad's games, even with all the faults of Vanguard, it made the current MMO market look like a ADD reject school. Heck, even with SoE destroying it with its mainstream FTP gimmicks, the game still had more depth and substance than the low attention span dribble of today.
So, most of us are happy to even get a failed game from the guy.
That said, I read the forums there quite often and most of the discussions are quiet because there is nothing to go on about. All the opening them up will do is end with the same "rehashing" of the idiot mainstream arguments over and over such as:
1) This game will fail if there is no PvP.
2) This game will fail if it isn't instanced.
3) Unity sucks, this game will fail.
4) Corpse runs suck, this game will fail.
5) Exp penalties suck, this game will fail.
6) There are no flying mounts, this game will fail.
7) *insert some stupid mainstream tantrum* this game will fail.
Oh and don't forget...
8) Brad is a coke addict who blew all the money on whores and will take everyone's money and use it for toilet paper!
I have seen far too many games in their development get thrashed by the mainstream crowd and all of its idiocy. LoTRO had its development derailed as all the mainstreamers rushed in and preached from the book of mainstream only to run off later with no real intent to play the game.
Pantheon will fare quite well if they stick to their guns and produce a solid game play experience to their initial goals. If they listen to mainstream, all they will end up doing is running off the dedicated audience while the mainstream locusts consume the game and leave its dead husk a month or two later as they run back to chase the latest gimmick of the idiot MMOs of today.
But the forums at that time have been the worst collection of hateful posts I've ever seen. Lindsay Lohan forums at her heyday havent been this awful.
That was basically what SilkyVenom was back then.
And I would like to point out: PvP would indeed be awesome, and I expect that we'll get PvP servers, as unbalanced as the game might be for that.
Personally I really liked the final solution they came up for death penalty in Vanguard. It was harsh enough that you didnt want to die, but not so harsh that you would avoid taking risks at all costs. I think thats exactly what death penalties should be.
As for death penalty, corpse runs will be a part of Pantheon. What is unclear is how much gear will be left on the corpse (all of it, unequipped or equipped, etc...) and how severe the exp penalty will be, level loss, etc... Not only that, but how that corpse can be retrieved.
Personally, I would like to see all gear left on the corpse (encourages alternate set collection and creates pros/cons balancing between classes such as a monk having less need for gear over a warrior for instance), a 40%+ exp penalty with loss of level. The only way you can retrieve your corpse is by having someone drag it, summon it (via player class), or fight to it. Corpses should never decay, and I think it is reasonable to have it where if you don't get a chance to get it, the corpse spawns at the zone line or some accessible recovery area after a certain amount of time (say 72 hours or so).
This creates a major sense of danger in the world and it makes skilled players commodity as it was in EQ. In EQ, people who refused to listen, work as a team and learn about their class didn't find groups. They had a very hard time because the content was rough and death was not kind. It made it all the more exciting though and all the more rewarding when you did make your way into some dangerous area and succeed in taking down a rare and difficult mob. EQ didn't feel like a "game", it felt like a dangerous living and breathing world.
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
The whole notion that every class must be balanced in a 1v1 is a fallacy and used as an excuse why PvP isn't viable. PvP was amazing in EQ1, simply because each class was beneficial in the same way it was in PvE. It made PvP about grouping, not a 1v1 epeen contest. If you wanted to solo PvP, there were classes that excelled, but in general everything about the game was about having the right mix of classes in order to fight over content.
CC also worked because the EQ resist system. It required you to stack resist gear and if a player wanted to CC you, they had to be debuffed first. This usually required multiple players/classes to use their debuffs. Some spells were disabled in PvP (fear/charm), but honestly that wouldn't have been necessary once players understood the resist system down the line. Early on it was a pain because it made bard/necro/enc super OP.
In short, PvP is totally viable in a game like Pantheon. Not only is it viable, but because the game will not be "pvp focused" there will be plenty of progression and gameplay for people to do when they don't want to PvP. The lack of other content has ultimately been the downfall of every "PvP MMO." Without something meaningful to fight over, fighting gets boring quickly. Content ( ie. dungeons, rares and raid targets) provides that reason.
EQ's enjoyment of PvP was because it wasn't designed to be such a game. When I say PvP/PvE games do not work, am talking about intended PvP/PvE balanced games, not games where one is the goal and the other is an unattended afterthought.
If you look at the games after EQ that began to focus on PvP, you began to see this imbalance, this constant complaint of shifting power back and forth, the never ending degradation of the PvE game to attend to the PvP balance.
As I said, a PvP/PvE game can not work, it never works. EQ was not a PvP/PvE game, it was a PvE game that let loose people to play PvP on a separate server. There is a significant difference as in one, nobody cares if people complain about the PvP, in the other, PvE takes it in the shorts due to the constant complaints about PvP. That was my point.
I think in the current, highly competitive, online gaming climate, a game like EQ with PvP could be much more popular today, simply because it brings more to the table overall as a game than the "PvP MMO" titles. I also don't believe it needs designed around PvP or have that "focus" for players to enjoy it as such.
I'm not sure Pantheon has to be pigeon-holed into a specific category like "PvE". They are better off just focusing on being a fantasy world simulator and allowing the players to do the rest via specific server rulesets. Maybe I always regarded EQ differently in that respect, but when I see WoW I think, thats a PvE game with a linear focus on content and then battlegrounds for PvP. Very cut and dry. EQ always seemed more a virtual world where people did what they wanted, especially on the servers that allowed players to fight over content.
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
My point was PvE/PvP games never work. That is, games designed FOR PvP AND PvE. A PvE game that gives no precedence to PvP could work, but it has to disregard the numerous complaints about balance that will come about and they will have a hard enough time dealing with those on a PvE game alone when people start the whole "class envy" nerf/buff calls.
I guess that is the point, it isn't specifically PvP that makes it not work, rather that PvP hastens the process of mainstream homogenization, streamlined design, etc.... that occurs from class balance arguments in PvE anyway.
If they dismiss those complaints and stay on task, I think a PvP server could work, just like it did in EQ. I just think they are better to focus on the PvE game and not PvP, it will only end badly if they give PvP any real attention and this has been consistent in every MMO released. It always ends badly with PvP harming the PvE game.
Lineage 2 for example had special PvP hitpoints, on top of the usual PvE hitpoints. This way players would have hitpoints closer to those of mobs, for which the PvE abilities have been scaled. Also healing spells wouldnt work on PvP hitpoints, leveling the playing field further, and there have been special abilities that would only reduce PvP hitpoints, but not on the PvE hitpoints.
Likewise certain abilities can work differently on players, than on mobs. For example like giving players stronger chances to resist abilities that completely disable the victim, such as charm or stun or silence, and making the durations a lot shorter, too. Or disregarding gear bonusses during PvP, so people benefit less from having far superior gear.
If they are separate severs, it can as was discussed, but it can never work on the same server. Lineage/Lineage 2 I absolutely despised, so it isn't a help in this discussion.
The problem is this. When you design for PvP and PvE together, you have to always consider everything added to avoid problems with a single implementation becoming a massive abuse mechanic. This drives development regardless. There is no way around it. You could add in some amazing extremely, ridiculously powerful class mechanic that works well in its design for the content, but then have it create massive problems between class vs class play. Then you have to tone it down, adjust it or create a mechanic for the other classes to deal with it. Not only that, but gear design gets driven to attend to such focus of play. All of the more complex and interesting items with abilities get removed, toned down, etc... not because they overpowered PvE content, but because they were abused with PvP content.
I have seen this done in every game. Sure, they put in "features", but it always ends up have a negative effect on PvE play. In LoTRO, they thought they were being clever by having a PvP instance only and creating a PvP only set of playable characters with the belief that they could balance it without having any effect on PvE. It didn't work, they eventually, in order to balance some problems with the PvP had to change how some PvE skills worked to accommodate the PvP play.
In WoW, it was a constant nerfing/buffing over and over until they found that it would be easier to just streamline and homogenize classes so they could balance easier. PvE content, character development, etc... lost out on this.
In Rift, again.. PvE design constantly had nerfs and buffs to accommodate PvP play. It was this constant cycle of flavor of the month in PvP that resulted in PvE classes having to deal with decreased performance in content.
I could go on and on, game after game, year after year of this very discussion we are having now, where PvP was argued as the required savior for the game, that it would fail if it didn't have it and that PvP turned out being the very thing that destroyed the PvE game.
You can not balance PvE and PvP in the same server system "practically". You could do it, but the micromanagement of the system to keep every element separate at multiple layers to have abilities, hp, etc... all function differently would require a budget that even The Old Republic would look cheap compared to.
You can do as Dullahan suggested, not balance it, like they did in EQ (though I could of sworn they did allow for some different rules tweaking from time to time on the PvP servers), but that is the only way you are going to be able to do it without requiring PvE to sacrifice content design and play in order to cater to PvP Balance.
It just won't work, it hasn't in 20 years to any real success (ie PvP driving what is allowed in PvE) and it certainly won't with the budget they have with Pantheon.