CCP Desperate:Planning to allow players to sell skillpoints to other players for AUR(p2w currency)

F0URTWENTY

Here is the link to the CCP announcement: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=450912&find=unread

It has already nearly 200 pages of negative feedback and there are mass protests planned for good reasons: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=451237&find=unread

With Eve Online rapidly loosing players due to game stagnation and lack of solid content in their small updates for years it seems CCP has reached an all new low and are looking to milk their remaining playerbase even further. They will allow players to buy an item with aurum that can convert skill points into an item which they can sell to other players (PAY TO WIN)

CCP is letting Eve slowly die while milking their vets as much as they can to fund their virtual reality mini games that will end up cancelled or abandoned like dust514, world of darkness, project legion

Discuss:

Copperfield

lol.. they are trying to safe the sinking ship..

wrong suggestion tho

MrTuggles

You do understand that there has been a character bazaar, that is sanctioned by CCP, to allow people to purchase other characters for in game currency, correct?

All this does is allow people to get skill points for THEIR character, with THEIR name, instead of purchasing some dillweed named toon on the bazaar. You would be surprised how many "XXXXX420" names are out there. No one wants to run around with that idiotic of a name.

This is a huge  plus for people like me who become engrossed in my character, and want to get a little boost into a certain skill here or there.

+1 to CCP for finally rolling something like this out.

F0URTWENTY

MrTuggles said:

You do understand that there has been a character bazaar, that is sanctioned by CCP, to allow people to purchase other characters for in game currency, correct?

All this does is allow people to get skill points for THEIR character, with THEIR name, instead of purchasing some dillweed named toon on the bazaar. You would be surprised how many "XXXXX420" names are out there. No one wants to run around with that idiotic of a name.

This is a huge  plus for people like me who become engrossed in my character, and want to get a little boost into a certain skill here or there.

+1 to CCP for finally rolling something like this out.

Selling characters is entirely different than allowing players to sell skill points. As you say yourself you like to be "engrossed in your character," it definitely matters to people that what their character name since it cannot be changed. Many don't want to sacrifice their identity to purchase another character to replace the character they identify with and have reputation for.

This will allow people with disposable income to purchase skill points for real money and get an advantage with a character they made and identify with, without having to sacrifice their identity and buy someone elses character.

This is buying skill points for real money. That is pay to win.

Iczer

Its far from pay to win, as MrTuggles said you can buy and sell characters for in game money and have been able to for many years. I've created and sold 5 characters over the last 8 years. If anyone knows anything about eve it makes very little difference if you have all the skillpoints to pilot every ship and use every weapon you still have to have the PLAYER skill to be effective in anything outside of a large fleet engagement.

MrTuggles

F0URTWENTY said:

MrTuggles said:

You do understand that there has been a character bazaar, that is sanctioned by CCP, to allow people to purchase other characters for in game currency, correct?

All this does is allow people to get skill points for THEIR character, with THEIR name, instead of purchasing some dillweed named toon on the bazaar. You would be surprised how many "XXXXX420" names are out there. No one wants to run around with that idiotic of a name.

This is a huge  plus for people like me who become engrossed in my character, and want to get a little boost into a certain skill here or there.

+1 to CCP for finally rolling something like this out.

Selling characters is entirely different than allowing players to sell skill points. As you say yourself you like to be "engrossed in your character" it definitely matters to people what their character name is since it cannot be changed. Many don't want to sacrifice their identity to purchases another character as their mains.

This will allow people with disposable income to purchase skill points for real money and get an advantage with a character they made and identify with, without having to sacrifice their identity and buy someone elses character.

This is buying skill points for real money. That is pay to win.

And how is purchasing a toon for in game currency any different? 

If someone with a large amount of disposable income wants a 200m SP toon they can purchase a large amount of PLEX to sell for in game currency to get said toon.

How, in any sense of the situation, is this different than CCP allowing people to sell packets of skill points? You purchase them with in game currency. You can either farm isk in game, or farm RL money at work. Same damn principle.


Also, you are failing to mention that the difference between lvl 4 and lvl 5 of 99.9% of the skills in Eve is so arbitrary that it would not even remotely be an automatic win for a pilot with the lvl 5 skills. Training a month to get large weapon spec 5 will only net you 2% more damage. Eve is truly a game where a pilot's actual skill at flying/modding his ship determines if he wins or not. Picking engagements, situational awareness, using the right mods, dictating range, knowing when to activate your reps/cap booster, knowing when to run,  all of those things win fights. Not a 2% increase in damage that you are crying makes the game P2W.

[mod edit]

DarLorkar

F0URTWENTY said:

MrTuggles said:

You do understand that there has been a character bazaar, that is sanctioned by CCP, to allow people to purchase other characters for in game currency, correct?

All this does is allow people to get skill points for THEIR character, with THEIR name, instead of purchasing some dillweed named toon on the bazaar. You would be surprised how many "XXXXX420" names are out there. No one wants to run around with that idiotic of a name.

This is a huge  plus for people like me who become engrossed in my character, and want to get a little boost into a certain skill here or there.

+1 to CCP for finally rolling something like this out.

Selling characters is entirely different than allowing players to sell skill points. As you say yourself you like to be "engrossed in your character," it definitely matters to people that what their character name since it cannot be changed. Many don't want to sacrifice their identity to purchase another character to replace the character they identify with and have reputation for.

This will allow people with disposable income to purchase skill points for real money and get an advantage with a character they made and identify with, without having to sacrifice their identity and buy someone elses character.

This is buying skill points for real money. That is pay to win.

I believe what they were saying...was that it has always had a pay to win part to game since you could buy characters with more skill points. 

Now they are just enhancing that more with this part. Still pay to win both ways.

Ikonoclastia

It's definitely pay to win but so is buying characters. There are peeps who have been making pre-made characters for years. They're specifically skilled and never undocked so essentially in the box pre-made to order.

i like this change however I have 12 characters, 2 2003 and 8 from 2004 to 2009. Will be cool to milk them and relocate or sell the packs. 

Jasz

This Thread is so troll-like its laughable. "CCP is letting Eve slowly die while milking their vets" Sorry but obviously you haven't been on the CCP train for very long or your just really have no clue what has gone on or is going on in this game.

EVE is nowhere near death. I have seen the online population at less than half of what it is now when I log on and CCP was happy enough with that to keep it going on for years. There are plenty of people playing and having fun and there is almost nothing ingame that can't be done with isk (game currency).

There is nothing wrong with the way they are doing things and the population is not hurting. CCP is a company that does what it wants with the game they play and enjoy. Your QQ is not going to change that. Claiming that this is somehow the death of EVE is just comical. I am a vet and I look forward to seeing people fly into low-sec with their new bought skills and get blown up because they have no clue what they are doing. Yeah! Free mods!

EVE is a skill game. I was blowing up vets my second month in. Grow up and stop complaining and let people like me enjoy these nubs with skill points, and enjoy the mods they drop.

Lobotomist

This is P2W if i ever seen one.

It means that with $$$ money you can basically buy Fully leveled character that would take you year to level up without buying.

Seeing that you can also buy anything else with $$$ money.

And with lot of money you can buy fleet that will control the sandbox universe.


Its now full Real cash game , ironically even worse than let say "Project Entropia" that main feature was that all costs real money. But even there you could not buy levels

Anyway.

RIP

Grunty

Lobotomist said:

This is P2W if i ever seen one.

It means that with $$$ money you can basically buy Fully leveled character that would take you year to level up without buying.

Seeing that you can also buy anything else with $$$ money.

And with lot of money you can buy fleet that will control the sandbox universe.


Its now full Real cash game , ironically even worse than let say "Project Entropia" that main feature was that all costs real money. But even there you could not buy levels

Anyway.

RIP

You can buy skill levels from other players in Entropia Universe through the auction house. Whether you earn or buy the credits to purchase the skill points is up to you, your skill and the game's odds generator.

Muke

F0URTWENTY said:

 They will allow players to buy an item with aurum that can convert skill points into an item which they can sell to other players (PAY TO WIN)

*LOL*Total*absolute*Nonsense*



Being a noob and buying a 200M skillpoint character/skillpoints in a pimped ship makes you not invulnerable.


Even better:

you buy skillpoints, buy ISK and buy a pimp ship. I come in my 5-10M sp alt in a 3M ship fit for tackling and I can kill you because you cant move, and you can't hit me because I go too fast, or I drain your cap dry in seconds, or I permajam you so you can't hit me with all those nice bought skillpoints.

And believe me: I had some customers which I sold a veteran character to (100M+), who lost shiny ships on their first day not knowing what to do with it.



You are just trolling or don't have a clue about the mechanics of skillpoints and skill in this game because CCP allowing selling characters through the forums has been going on for years, and what it ends up with are lots of noobs dying to smart(er) players in cheap ships when they think they are ' max geared'.

So selling skillpoints will only make your alts smarter or you can boost your main a bit so you can use some new equipment, but it is not P2W.

I have >25k kills on my main, hundreds/thousands others on my many alts, thousands which were killing Brave Alliance newbs (and they loved me for it)

Let's pretend this is not against the EULA: IF I sell you my main (allowed), WITH all my assets on that character and the hundreds of pvp/pve ships I got on that character EVE-wide, plus the billions of ISK on that char:


-would you turn into a ' PVP MONSTER' once using all that?-

The answer is: NO.

You would get pwned like before and ganked like never before.
Because you lack the skill.
And with that I do not mean skillpoints, but lacking pvp knowledge.
And again: with PVP I do not mean sitting in 300-man blobs pushing F1.
That's for newbs.
If you already have enough skillpoints you would have noticed that your ' P2W' claim is invalid.
People who claim this are PVE players who sit in nullsec tucked away in their little corner and do not have a clue about real pvp in EVE.

And believe me: I have done some real pvp damage in my 12-year tenure as nullsec/lowsec small gang/solo pvp 'elitist' and alliance FC.
And I learned from the best while being in Styxx, FIX, CA, Infod, Band of Brothers, PL, -LV- , NCdot and others.

So it is the exact same thing with buying/selling skillpoints.






Selling skillpoints: I don't agree.

Is it Pay-2-win?

Definately NOT.

Buying brain capacity though, now THAT would be P2W in EVE.

Copperfield

they should have sticked to world of darkfness.. and made a new game from scratch..

Eve is worn out.. still a good game tho..

CCP didnt have the balls to stick with WOD.. instead of that they came up with this..

If WOD would have been made... they would have alot of initial sales because of their rep..

Deathenger

Lobotomist said:

This is P2W if i ever seen one.

It means that with $$$ money you can basically buy Fully leveled character that would take you year to level up without buying.

Seeing that you can also buy anything else with $$$ money.

And with lot of money you can buy fleet that will control the sandbox universe.


Its now full Real cash game , ironically even worse than let say "Project Entropia" that main feature was that all costs real money. But even there you could not buy levels

Anyway.

RIP

You can have all the cash in the world, every ship in the game, and unlimited ISK and all that will still never "win" you anything in EvE except getting your ass whooped and epic loss mails.

This is an idea to help new players with very low skill point characters. Also the skillpoints don't just appear from out of thin air. They're taken from the skillpoint pool of another character that had to be trained up.

Anything that brings in more new players is a good thing imho.

Loktofeit

Jasz said:

This Thread is so troll-like its laughable. "CCP is letting Eve slowly die while milking their vets" Sorry but obviously you haven't been on the CCP train for very long or your just really have no clue what has gone on or is going on in this game.

If you look at his post history, this post is par for the course from 420. I never quite got why some people invest so much time and effort in bashing a game they don'tplay when they could be spending that time playing or posting about a game they like. 

Billr00

If you look at the post .. this isn't set in stone .. its just what they are hashing over and are accepting criticism and input from the player population .. 

also .. the higher your skills points the harder it is to raise skills points so .. just buying a 200mil sp character from scratch with your LEET name is gonna be real real real damn expensive 

Loktofeit

Billr00 said:

If you look at the post .. this isn't set in stone .. its just what they are hashing over and are accepting criticism and input from the player population .. 

Exactly. I encourage anyone with thoughts on the matter to share them in that thread. Views of both new players and veterans are welcome. 

Phry

Loktofeit said:

Billr00 said:

If you look at the post .. this isn't set in stone .. its just what they are hashing over and are accepting criticism and input from the player population .. 

Exactly. I encourage anyone with thoughts on the matter to share them in that thread. Views of both new players and veterans are welcome. 

Except those with the strongest view seem to misunderstand what Skill Points in Eve are, and probably are not all that interested in playing either.
Can't say i am a big fan of Skill Point trading either, but, at the same time, its not exactly a big thing as it doesn't 'change the landscape' even for PVP.

Besides, i don't think this is about money, if CCP were at all concerned about that, then they wouldn't have banned multiboxing software, i think they lost a lot of paying subs over that, and if that is of no concern to them, then all they are probably considering is quality of life 'enhancements' that players may make use of. Players being able to sell their own SP's to other players, may prove useful to some, though personally, even with 128m SP's i can't imagine doing such a thing, as long as you cannot purchase SP's directly from CCP, then i don't see how it can be a problem.

Minuszer0

It might be P2W if skillpoints actually translated to "Winning" in Eve.  Show me a noob with a 120M SP character he bought and I'll show you an angry and confused guy sitting in a fresh clone a few minutes later.


Since most of my characters are effectively "done" training anything I give a shit about, I'll be interested in seeing how the market for the items shakes out.  Could be a nice passive income generator.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Kyleran

Muke said:

F0URTWENTY said:

 They will allow players to buy an item with aurum that can convert skill points into an item which they can sell to other players (PAY TO WIN)

*LOL*Total*absolute*Nonsense*



Being a noob and buying a 200M skillpoint character/skillpoints in a pimped ship makes you not invulnerable.


Even better:

you buy skillpoints, buy ISK and buy a pimp ship. I come in my 5-10M sp alt in a 3M ship fit for tackling and I can kill you because you cant move, and you can't hit me because I go too fast, or I drain your cap dry in seconds, or I permajam you so you can't hit me with all those nice bought skillpoints.

And believe me: I had some customers which I sold a veteran character to (100M+), who lost shiny ships on their first day not knowing what to do with it.



You are just trolling or don't have a clue about the mechanics of skillpoints and skill in this game because CCP allowing selling characters through the forums has been going on for years, and what it ends up with are lots of noobs dying to smart(er) players in cheap ships when they think they are ' max geared'.

So selling skillpoints will only make your alts smarter or you can boost your main a bit so you can use some new equipment, but it is not P2W.

I have >25k kills on my main, hundreds/thousands others on my many alts, thousands which were killing Brave Alliance newbs (and they loved me for it)

Let's pretend this is not against the EULA: IF I sell you my main (allowed), WITH all my assets on that character and the hundreds of pvp/pve ships I got on that character EVE-wide, plus the billions of ISK on that char:


-would you turn into a ' PVP MONSTER' once using all that?-

The answer is: NO.

You would get pwned like before and ganked like never before.
Because you lack the skill.
And with that I do not mean skillpoints, but lacking pvp knowledge.
And again: with PVP I do not mean sitting in 300-man blobs pushing F1.
That's for newbs.
If you already have enough skillpoints you would have noticed that your ' P2W' claim is invalid.
People who claim this are PVE players who sit in nullsec tucked away in their little corner and do not have a clue about real pvp in EVE.

And believe me: I have done some real pvp damage in my 12-year tenure as nullsec/lowsec small gang/solo pvp 'elitist' and alliance FC.
And I learned from the best while being in Styxx, FIX, CA, Infod, Band of Brothers, PL, -LV- , NCdot and others.

So it is the exact same thing with buying/selling skillpoints.






Selling skillpoints: I don't agree.

Is it Pay-2-win?

Definately NOT.

Buying brain capacity though, now THAT would be P2W in EVE.

Now buying brain capacity or pvp prowess, that I would buy in a minute.

But skill points? No I have lots of those and still suck. I'm proof it definitely isnt the path to winning.

hfztt

There is a fact that to OP left out. The deminishing returns. The more skill pints you already have, the less you will get out of  your skill point purchase, down to 10% output. CCP has effectively introduced a SP sink into the game. While perhaps not an immidiate threat to the game, if the total sum of SP in the game gets to large the balance of the game will start to break down.

In addition the outrage over this versus outright just buying a toon, is silly and misplaced.

The current forum "war" over this seems to stem from internal disagreement in the CSM over this having lead certain members to rally thier alliances to fight this on the forums. My guess some of these alliances have organised buying and selling of toons as an important part of thier ingame income.

This is EVE Metagaming in action. Ignore and move on... 

H0urg1ass

Oh dear Cthulu, the hyperbole in this thread.

CCP is not desperate.  EVE is not dying.  More skill points does not equal more winning.

CCP is looking for a way to retain new players.  During EVE Online's FanFest 2014 there was a presentation from one of the developers, CCP Rise, where he showed that only about 7% of new players end up becoming a part of the game's culture and staying in the game for years.

50% of them quit within a month and the other 40% play EVE solo until they get bored and quit after a few months.

One of the biggest complaints that new players give when they quit the game is that they feel that "they can never catch up" to the older players, or that they don't feel as useful due to their low skill cap.

This is a good way to remedy this issue, and it favors new players heavily.  There's a heavy diminishing return applied to players with high amounts of skill points.  Two of my characters, for instance, are over 160 million SP.  More than double the diminishing return limit of 80 million.  

I would end up spending a lot of money and burning a lot of extracted SP in order to add a measly 50,000 SP to my character.  A new player, on the other hand, with less than 5 mill SP, would be able to add 500,000k SP to their character, which will enable them to do a lot more with their character.

The only issue I see here so far is in the pricing of this system and how it will influence the PLEX prices in the game.

0ppression

H0urg1ass said:

The only issue I see here so far is in the pricing of this system and how it will influence the PLEX prices in the game.

And there is the reason this isn't going to work. If you play eve you know damn well the market pvp over this is going to be absolutely crazy. No new dude is going to be able to afford this crap after a week, let alone 3 months.

Panserbjorne39

Muke said:

F0URTWENTY said:

 They will allow players to buy an item with aurum that can convert skill points into an item which they can sell to other players (PAY TO WIN)

*LOL*Total*absolute*Nonsense*



Being a noob and buying a 200M skillpoint character/skillpoints in a pimped ship makes you not invulnerable.


Even better:

you buy skillpoints, buy ISK and buy a pimp ship. I come in my 5-10M sp alt in a 3M ship fit for tackling and I can kill you because you cant move, and you can't hit me because I go too fast, or I drain your cap dry in seconds, or I permajam you so you can't hit me with all those nice bought skillpoints.

And believe me: I had some customers which I sold a veteran character to (100M+), who lost shiny ships on their first day not knowing what to do with it.



You are just trolling or don't have a clue about the mechanics of skillpoints and skill in this game because CCP allowing selling characters through the forums has been going on for years, and what it ends up with are lots of noobs dying to smart(er) players in cheap ships when they think they are ' max geared'.

So selling skillpoints will only make your alts smarter or you can boost your main a bit so you can use some new equipment, but it is not P2W.

I have >25k kills on my main, hundreds/thousands others on my many alts, thousands which were killing Brave Alliance newbs (and they loved me for it)

Let's pretend this is not against the EULA: IF I sell you my main (allowed), WITH all my assets on that character and the hundreds of pvp/pve ships I got on that character EVE-wide, plus the billions of ISK on that char:


-would you turn into a ' PVP MONSTER' once using all that?-

The answer is: NO.

You would get pwned like before and ganked like never before.
Because you lack the skill.
And with that I do not mean skillpoints, but lacking pvp knowledge.
And again: with PVP I do not mean sitting in 300-man blobs pushing F1.
That's for newbs.
If you already have enough skillpoints you would have noticed that your ' P2W' claim is invalid.
People who claim this are PVE players who sit in nullsec tucked away in their little corner and do not have a clue about real pvp in EVE.

And believe me: I have done some real pvp damage in my 12-year tenure as nullsec/lowsec small gang/solo pvp 'elitist' and alliance FC.
And I learned from the best while being in Styxx, FIX, CA, Infod, Band of Brothers, PL, -LV- , NCdot and others.

So it is the exact same thing with buying/selling skillpoints.






Selling skillpoints: I don't agree.

Is it Pay-2-win?

Definately NOT.

Buying brain capacity though, now THAT would be P2W in EVE.

Ya so what you are saying is that they are selling Pay to Lose and have been for years. Seems pretty stupid for all involved and bad for new players and bad for player retention. It's all fucking stupid and bad! You guys just don't get it. Forget the pay to win crap and just look at the effect the system will have on the game. Money for CCP. Nothing for new players who don't want to pay out the ass and pay to lose for those who are stupid enough to drop the cash. 

Also look at this from another perspective, player drops a ton of cash, buys shinies, gets pwned first time out. Goes and watches a few hours of Youtube, does some reading and comes back with new shiny and all his bought SP and pwns the fuck outta a bunch of other players at all levels. Like you guys are a bunch of single minded broken records parroting the same shit over and over and downplaying the importance of SP and ignoring the actual effects of this shit. 
Does any vet care about the health of the game? Does any vet care to bring in new players? The SP for money thing is going about it completely the wrong way. It will bring nothing to EVE other than more ISKs in the pockets of uber rich alliances. 

Panserbjorne39

And you guys love to tout your "SKILLZ" and PvP prowess. STF. PvP in eve is easy. There is only some skill involved, the actual ship, fit, and gear are just as important as is who you're fighting. Getting a lot of kills can be ridiculously easy when so many of pvp kills in EVE are against unready, unwilling participants. lol You can kill a fuckin frigate or interceptor or whatever like before they even knew what hit them. So yeah, tell me about how many fair, planned, 1v1 apples to apples fights you've won. Because there aren't any!