I'm a huge MMO fan and I started to feel the same way. Ended up playing a bunch of survival games for a while, had great fun, and came back to MMOs sort of understanding they will all basically be the same game. Enjoying myself more now, I think the key is to find an MMO with a setting you like and just for the love of god stay off of their official forums.
If you simply can't get into one no matter what, as others have said... time to give up on MMOs.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
The real problem here is you started playing the genre before Facebook was even an itch in some guys pants. Back then, just chatting with people online was in and of itself... entertaining. The game was just something you did together with your new online friends.
Now people don't give a rats ass about the people playing the game, they're not interested in having an online chat with anyone. So in a nutshell, if you were presented with <insert you most favorite MMORPG> today for the very first time... you'd go meh to it as well because the game is, in reality, meh. It was the people that made the game interesting to play, the game really wasn't all that. And that is why no new game keeps you entertained for more than a month tops.
You have far too many things that are vying for your attention now... back then, not so much.
In reality, games are not created in such a way that you need anyone else. So of course no one gives a rat's ass about anyone else.
As soon as online games bring back the need for players to interact or work together all the way through (as opposed to just at "end game"), whatever the goal may be, it will change the entire scene. That is why I'm looking forward to a few indie games in development like Pantheon.
The real problem here is you started playing the genre before Facebook was even an itch in some guys pants. Back then, just chatting with people online was in and of itself... entertaining. The game was just something you did together with your new online friends.
Now people don't give a rats ass about the people playing the game, they're not interested in having an online chat with anyone. So in a nutshell, if you were presented with <insert you most favorite MMORPG> today for the very first time... you'd go meh to it as well because the game is, in reality, meh. It was the people that made the game interesting to play, the game really wasn't all that. And that is why no new game keeps you entertained for more than a month tops.
You have far too many things that are vying for your attention now... back then, not so much.
In reality, games are not created in such a way that you need anyone else. So of course no one gives a rat's ass about anyone else.
As soon as online games bring back the need for players to interact or work together all the way through (as opposed to just at "end game"), whatever the goal may be, it will change the entire scene. That is why I'm looking forward to a few indie games in development like Pantheon.
You say this as if 2004-05 didn't happen...They were there, then they were abandoned, the players leaving for games like WOW came first, it seems some do not remember that. It was only after that that the genre switched focus to a content first priority. That's all I remember reading about when WOW released, "it's not a boring mob grind, it has questing!, yay"... yet we wonder why that's what devs started focusing on?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm still waiting for a nice world to explore...Every single MMO the last few years just makes a generic world that is nothing but a questfest.......I blame WoW...All the games before it had interesting worlds, all the games since are boring, linear theme park worlds.
If you want a world to explore, have you tried Uncharted Waters Online? Exploration is as important of a game mechanic as combat. Much of the best gear in the game comes from discovering it in the wild, without having to kill things to get it.
Its been about 3 years since I last tried it, but last I remember the tutorial was flat out awful.....You're right its a little different from the norm but not quite what I am looking for.
I'm still waiting for a nice world to explore...Every single MMO the last few years just makes a generic world that is nothing but a questfest.......I blame WoW...All the games before it had interesting worlds, all the games since are boring, linear theme park worlds.
If you want a world to explore, have you tried Uncharted Waters Online? Exploration is as important of a game mechanic as combat. Much of the best gear in the game comes from discovering it in the wild, without having to kill things to get it.
Its been about 3 years since I last tried it, but last I remember the tutorial was flat out awful.....You're right its a little different from the norm but not quite what I am looking for.
Tutorial? Tutorials? You want a tutorial? HEY EVERYONE, THIS GUY IS PART OF THE PROBLEM!!!!
Well everything has been introduced in mmo's seriously. Even what others called investigation quests. Yes they exist in mmo's it is just that today's players wants to have a little dot's that shows them where is the quest objectives and where is the quest givers to turn it back in once completed. They call that convenience!
But lot's of quest in mmo's ask you to investigate things, you need to search patterns or even find objects and inspects parts or areas and put them together to find out what it is or to who it belongs to. There is even some jumping puzzles and i could go on and on about all kind of things found in mmo's. But todays mmo's are made for those that like to play single player games or Lobby games with only end game in mind.
It is not there is nothing new, it is the fact that everyone wants it easy and fast. All mmo's are fun until you make them something else they are not suppose to be!
The problem with new is that it costs a lot of money with no way to guarantee a return on the investment. If you have some great new idea, why don't you try pitching it to some investors and see how quickly they want to know what proof you have that they're likely to get their money back. Inflated development costs are the main reason why we're seeing less innovation across all genres. Back in the day taking risks could be done without spending too much money on an unproven idea, but now that's just flat-out impossible. You can make arguments about using Kickstarter, but the largest game on Kickstarter was what...6-7 million dollars? That's not much in terms of game development costs. It might work as an idea to prove to investors that there is consumer interest, but unfortunately that doesn't work either. Consumer interest doesn't always make for good sales. Sometimes people change their mind between the time they expressed interest in something and the time it is released. Or they didn't realize that it wasn't what they wanted in the first place. Or they see a gameplay video and it's not what they imagined. There's a lot of roadblocks you have to get around in order to get new, innovative gameplay.
I had written a whole rant on this, but I'll just sum up:
Games do not cost as much to develop as some companies would have you believe.
Are you counting the costs associated with marketing the title and localizing it for different regions and all the other overhead costs associated with game development? Or are you just talking the cost to go from prototype to playable game?
I had written a whole rant on this, but I'll just sum up:
Games do not cost as much to develop as some companies would have you believe.
Are you counting the costs associated with marketing the title and localizing it for different regions and all the other overhead costs associated with game development? Or are you just talking the cost to go from prototype to playable game?
The cost for marketing is significant (largely due to a saturated market), but these companies typically list that as a separate budget from the development. And "overhead" (studio costs, hardware and software, etc) has gone down significantly over the years.
So yes, I'm talking about the actual cost to pay for a studio, buy the equipment and pay people to create the game. It's a fraction of what the final bill comes to. The bulk of that money goes to administrative costs.
There is one company (that I'm technically not allowed to talk about) that burned through over $200k on salaries every month for like six people who didn't produce a thing.
I had written a whole rant on this, but I'll just sum up:
Games do not cost as much to develop as some companies would have you believe.
Are you counting the costs associated with marketing the title and localizing it for different regions and all the other overhead costs associated with game development? Or are you just talking the cost to go from prototype to playable game?
The cost for marketing is significant (largely due to a saturated market), but these companies typically list that as a separate budget from the development. And "overhead" (studio costs, hardware and software, etc) has gone down significantly over the years.
So yes, I'm talking about the actual cost to pay for a studio, buy the equipment and pay people to create the game. It's a fraction of what the final bill comes to. The bulk of that money goes to administrative costs.
There is one company (that I'm technically not allowed to talk about) that burned through over $200k on salaries every month for like six people who didn't produce a thing.
I don't doubt for a second that game budgets are artificially inflated. But those extra costs are always going to exist to one degree or another. They have to pay people to do administrative jobs while they're developing their game, so that's still a budgetary factor. And once the baseline salary for that position has been set, good luck ever getting people to do those jobs for less. However the money is distributed across rent/equipment/designers/programmers/artists/managers/secretaries/janitors/utilities/insurance/food, those are all costs that exist if you want to make a game. So while you can argue that the technical cost of making a game is inflated if you're only counting things that contribute directly to the creative and technical process of making the game, those other costs are still just as much existent.
I don't doubt for a second that game budgets are artificially inflated. But those extra costs are always going to exist to one degree or another. They have to pay people to do administrative jobs while they're developing their game, so that's still a budgetary factor. And once the baseline salary for that position has been set, good luck ever getting people to do those jobs for less. However the money is distributed across rent/equipment/designers/programmers/artists/managers/secretaries/janitors/utilities/insurance/food, those are all costs that exist if you want to make a game. So while you can argue that the technical cost of making a game is inflated if you're only counting things that contribute directly to the creative and technical process of making the game, those other costs are still just as much existent.
Sure, this is primarily an argument against people saying "Innovative indies can't produce a AAA quality game, cuz they cost $50 million!"
They don't. Running a corporation does, but certainly not developing a game. They do, however, still cost several million to develop and, for most indies, that may as well be a billion. It's still out of reach.
Tree of Savior does everything right for me as an MMO veteran.
I can't wait until it is out of beta.
You actually got me excited there for a sec and then I watched the video...... wow.
Anyway, this is the first time I've been on this site in quite some time. Why? There just seems to be nothing here anymore in the genre for me these days. Seriously folks, it's dying and fast it seems. Don't think it will ever get back to the good ol' days where there was actually a true sense of adventure, wonder, and exploration without hand holding. And when a game does come around that has some of that, it is almost always 100% pvp free for all, which no thanks for me. I seriously have just been pc gaming on non mmo games for over a year now and have pretty much just accepted I'm likely done with mmo's entirely until something really changes which may or may not ever happen.
Tree of Savior does everything right for me as an MMO veteran.
I can't wait until it is out of beta.
You actually got me excited there for a sec and then I watched the video...... wow.
Anyway, this is the first time I've been on this site in quite some time. Why? There just seems to be nothing here anymore in the genre for me these days. Seriously folks, it's dying and fast it seems. Don't think it will ever get back to the good ol' days where there was actually a true sense of adventure, wonder, and exploration without hand holding. And when a game does come around that has some of that, it is almost always 100% pvp free for all, which no thanks for me. I seriously have just been pc gaming on non mmo games for over a year now and have pretty much just accepted I'm likely done with mmo's entirely until something really changes which may or may not ever happen.
It is a problem yes. The gameplay is more or less the same in all games and so is other features like crafting, gaining experience/level and so on.
Personally do I think Dynamic events is the future instead of quests since they feel more natural as you play but the problem is that even with the best games they get repetetive and predictable pretty fast. However is making enough of them to make a game truly dynamic a huge task, something you either need an AI for or volunteer players (you still need someone to test and clear each of them but it is less work than doing everyone from scratch yourself). A system like that would make the open world far more interesting.
As for crafting they really just need to try a different approach, everyone using the same model is just sad. Yes, it works but just barely and you can't tell me they got the perfect model already. Add some bloody variety, and eityher give us the opportunity to customize looks and effects a little or at least let dwarfs make dwarven swords and elves elven with a different look.
And the setting, while fantasy is popular there is no reason that almost every game go for it (usually with a little steampunk added). There are other settings that would be just as popular if you look on popular culture, you could make everything from Ash Vs Evil dead to CSI Miami into MMOs.
There isn't anything exactly wrong with modern MMOs as such if you look on a specific game but the variation just suck.
Think it's time developers stop chasing the 'olde tyme gamey feel' with their crowdfunded projects. We don't need to go back to 1999, despite the nostalgic hero-worship of the 20th century on this website.
Instead of chasing nostalgia dollars (dwindling as the Old Guys leave the market one by one anyway), develop something NEW. You really can't recreate someone's youth for them, or put the yolk back into Humpty. This site drips grown men who can't deal with the concept that their virginitywas a one-time thing.
What you can do is develop a game that isn't like everything we've seen before.
Not "the same but a little different", get rid of the ! and ? and the colored loot and the mounts and the sword-and-board and the goddamned dragon in every bush. How about a UI that doesn't look familiar? Races that don't come from Tolkein? Raids and Housing and Crafting and PvP? "Boss Fights". They've all been done. To death.
Innovate, don't clone.
Yep, that probably means you need to leave the tired, worn out formula mmorpg far behind. These guys won't like that, you won't have a "true mmo". So what, if you've made a great game?
Invent the next formula. For fq sake, it's been fifteen years.
Think it's time developers stop chasing the 'olde tyme gamey feel' with their crowdfunded projects. We don't need to go back to 1999, despite the nostalgic hero-worship of the 20th century on this website.
Instead of chasing nostalgia dollars (dwindling as the Old Guys leave the market one by one anyway), develop something NEW. You really can't recreate someone's youth for them, or put the yolk back into Humpty. This site drips grown men who can't deal with the concept that their virginitywas a one-time thing.
What you can do is develop a game that isn't like everything we've seen before. Not "the same but a little different", get rid of the ! and the colored loot and the mounts and the sword-and-board and the goddamned dragon in every bush. Innovate, don't clone.
Yep, that probably means you need to leave the tired, worn out formula mmorpg far behind. These guys won't like that, you won't have a "true mmo". So what, if you've made a great game?
Invent the next formula.
Heh, I literally just wrote this "Mission Statement" on our Facebook Page:
"X-Shift Online seeks to break the typecast mold of online gaming. Not only do we intend to move beyond the boundaries of commonly accepted virtual worlds, but we intend to shatter those boundaries entirely, without compromise and without apology.
We will not build on existing models, adjusting preset designs to fit our genre. X-Shift is being built as something new, a fresh idea, entirely separate from its counterparts currently on the market."
If you want something different, then play something different. For example, Uncharted Waters Online. Try it for a week, and after a week, you'll be so confused that you don't even realize how much stuff you've misunderstood or ignored.
Lol, he isnt gonna like that game. It is a cheap Asian garbage game, based on whales who pay 4000 a month to the cash shop.
I'm not so much interested in a game "doing something new" as I am in it "doing something old very well, and in a fresh world." Just mixing up the class skills for a slightly different take and giving me a new map is about enough.
Really? Cuz it seems to me that that's all they've been doing for the last 10 years.
Think it's time developers stop chasing the 'olde tyme gamey feel' with their crowdfunded projects. We don't need to go back to 1999, despite the nostalgic hero-worship of the 20th century on this website.
Instead of chasing nostalgia dollars (dwindling as the Old Guys leave the market one by one anyway), develop something NEW. You really can't recreate someone's youth for them, or put the yolk back into Humpty. This site drips grown men who can't deal with the concept that their virginitywas a one-time thing.
What you can do is develop a game that isn't like everything we've seen before.
Not "the same but a little different", get rid of the ! and ? and the colored loot and the mounts and the sword-and-board and the goddamned dragon in every bush. How about a UI that doesn't look familiar? Races that don't come from Tolkein? Raids and Housing and Crafting and PvP? "Boss Fights". They've all been done. To death.
Innovate, don't clone.
Yep, that probably means you need to leave the tired, worn out formula mmorpg far behind. These guys won't like that, you won't have a "true mmo". So what, if you've made a great game?
Invent the next formula. For fq sake, it's been fifteen years.
if someone cant find game for yourself in present days, something is wrong with that person
Well I cant. I just cant lower my non pay 2 win standard, and they are all cash shop pay 2 win. ESP that one you have in your signature, eve online.
Name me one thing in FFXIV or WOW that you can buy in the shop that's P2W? A mount I don't think so....... Or I guess even GW2 for that matter what can you buy in the shop that gives you an advantage over another person?
I think MMORPGs have gone full circle now as has become apparent in recent events.
The hate and anger against the giants has driven them away so now the only option left is for the industry to become a self supporting structure of crowdfunding, promises and hope.
To bad that when the dust settles it will lot of broken dreams and loss money and more anger.
Someone may get it right but the time frame is to long and difficult.
I think MMORPGs have gone full circle now as has become apparent in recent events.
The hate and anger against the giants has driven them away so now the only option left is for the industry to become a self supporting structure of crowdfunding, promises and hope.
To bad that when the dust settles it will lot of broken dreams and loss money and more anger.
Someone may get it right but the time frame is to long and difficult.
O.o There are new AAA MMOs coming out all the time.
Comments
Passive consumption leads to ennui in the long term. It was an extremely expensive loss, when MMORPGs discarded RP.
Extended engagement seems to be lacking, in the genre viewed as a whole.
If you simply can't get into one no matter what, as others have said... time to give up on MMOs.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrQoK5VZlwBBzpsksmXtjMQ
As soon as online games bring back the need for players to interact or work together all the way through (as opposed to just at "end game"), whatever the goal may be, it will change the entire scene. That is why I'm looking forward to a few indie games in development like Pantheon.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
j/k
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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But lot's of quest in mmo's ask you to investigate things, you need to search patterns or even find objects and inspects parts or areas and put them together to find out what it is or to who it belongs to. There is even some jumping puzzles and i could go on and on about all kind of things found in mmo's. But todays mmo's are made for those that like to play single player games or Lobby games with only end game in mind.
It is not there is nothing new, it is the fact that everyone wants it easy and fast. All mmo's are fun until you make them something else they are not suppose to be!
Games do not cost as much to develop as some companies would have you believe.
Are you counting the costs associated with marketing the title and localizing it for different regions and all the other overhead costs associated with game development? Or are you just talking the cost to go from prototype to playable game?
So yes, I'm talking about the actual cost to pay for a studio, buy the equipment and pay people to create the game. It's a fraction of what the final bill comes to. The bulk of that money goes to administrative costs.
There is one company (that I'm technically not allowed to talk about) that burned through over $200k on salaries every month for like six people who didn't produce a thing.
I don't doubt for a second that game budgets are artificially inflated. But those extra costs are always going to exist to one degree or another. They have to pay people to do administrative jobs while they're developing their game, so that's still a budgetary factor. And once the baseline salary for that position has been set, good luck ever getting people to do those jobs for less. However the money is distributed across rent/equipment/designers/programmers/artists/managers/secretaries/janitors/utilities/insurance/food, those are all costs that exist if you want to make a game. So while you can argue that the technical cost of making a game is inflated if you're only counting things that contribute directly to the creative and technical process of making the game, those other costs are still just as much existent.
They don't. Running a corporation does, but certainly not developing a game. They do, however, still cost several million to develop and, for most indies, that may as well be a billion. It's still out of reach.
You actually got me excited there for a sec and then I watched the video...... wow.
Anyway, this is the first time I've been on this site in quite some time. Why? There just seems to be nothing here anymore in the genre for me these days. Seriously folks, it's dying and fast it seems. Don't think it will ever get back to the good ol' days where there was actually a true sense of adventure, wonder, and exploration without hand holding. And when a game does come around that has some of that, it is almost always 100% pvp free for all, which no thanks for me. I seriously have just been pc gaming on non mmo games for over a year now and have pretty much just accepted I'm likely done with mmo's entirely until something really changes which may or may not ever happen.
https://www.revivalgame.com/philosophy/mission_statement
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Personally do I think Dynamic events is the future instead of quests since they feel more natural as you play but the problem is that even with the best games they get repetetive and predictable pretty fast. However is making enough of them to make a game truly dynamic a huge task, something you either need an AI for or volunteer players (you still need someone to test and clear each of them but it is less work than doing everyone from scratch yourself). A system like that would make the open world far more interesting.
As for crafting they really just need to try a different approach, everyone using the same model is just sad. Yes, it works but just barely and you can't tell me they got the perfect model already. Add some bloody variety, and eityher give us the opportunity to customize looks and effects a little or at least let dwarfs make dwarven swords and elves elven with a different look.
And the setting, while fantasy is popular there is no reason that almost every game go for it (usually with a little steampunk added). There are other settings that would be just as popular if you look on popular culture, you could make everything from Ash Vs Evil dead to CSI Miami into MMOs.
There isn't anything exactly wrong with modern MMOs as such if you look on a specific game but the variation just suck.
Instead of chasing nostalgia dollars (dwindling as the Old Guys leave the market one by one anyway), develop something NEW. You really can't recreate someone's youth for them, or put the yolk back into Humpty. This site drips grown men who can't deal with the concept that their virginity was a one-time thing.
What you can do is develop a game that isn't like everything we've seen before.
Not "the same but a little different", get rid of the ! and ? and the colored loot and the mounts and the sword-and-board and the goddamned dragon in every bush. How about a UI that doesn't look familiar? Races that don't come from Tolkein? Raids and Housing and Crafting and PvP? "Boss Fights". They've all been done. To death.
Innovate, don't clone.
Yep, that probably means you need to leave the tired, worn out formula mmorpg far behind. These guys won't like that, you won't have a "true mmo". So what, if you've made a great game?
Invent the next formula. For fq sake, it's been fifteen years.
"X-Shift Online seeks to break the typecast mold of online gaming. Not only do we intend to move beyond the boundaries of commonly accepted virtual worlds, but we intend to shatter those boundaries entirely, without compromise and without apology.
We will not build on existing models, adjusting preset designs to fit our genre. X-Shift is being built as something new, a fresh idea, entirely separate from its counterparts currently on the market."
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Or I guess even GW2 for that matter what can you buy in the shop that gives you an advantage over another person?
I think MMORPGs have gone full circle now as has become apparent in recent events.
The hate and anger against the giants has driven them away so now the only option left is for the industry to become a self supporting structure of crowdfunding, promises and hope.
To bad that when the dust settles it will lot of broken dreams and loss money and more anger.
Someone may get it right but the time frame is to long and difficult.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.