"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Well performance increase says who??An advertising website,what base do they come to the conclusion,have they tested it on 500 games and several other applications or one?
Also it says that these so called performance drivers are not going to be part of their upcoming software,so considering we are talking w10 and it's not really moving forward with w10,it is meaningless.
Also special drivers and a special gpu setup to make it look good is not the same as me or you buying a stock component over the counter.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Times have realy changed, and its no secret AMD gpu's age much much better. Just compare 600 series versus 7900 series to see how good their gpu get along with times. or compare the 200 / 300 series versus the 900 series. And now the Fury's vs the TitanX / 980Ti
It's likely that that aging difference is a special case. GeForce 600 series was Kepler, which is no longer Nvidia's latest architecture and hasn't been for well over a year, so it's no longer getting driver performance optimizations. Radeon HD 7000 series was GCN, which still is essentially AMD's latest architecture, up to only minor tweaks. For Nvidia to optimize drivers for their latest Maxwell architecture doesn't do Kepler any good, but for AMD to optimize drivers for their latest GCN automatically helps the older 7000 series cards.
I've never understood this loyalty to a brand. At some point you would've wasted money on an inferior ATI/AMD card in the past, same with NVIDIA.
It will be the same with future cards aswell.
While I mostly agree, it's at least theoretically possible for a fanboy to skip the generations where their preferred brand is behind. An ATI fanboy could have skipped the Radeon HD 2000 series, or an Nvidia fanboy could have skipped the GeForce 400 series. If there has ever been a time when AMD/ATI or Nvidia badly lost in performance per watt and performance per dollar for three series in a row, it was so long ago that it's ancient history at this point.
Of course, that's partially hindsight bias, as getting clobbered enough generations in a row is how you go out of business or at least become irrelevant to gamers. See Matrox.
Exactly. And since all irrational people have to litter every thread with fairy tales, it just shows they are severly uneducated on the matter.
Why is even this a topic in this thread huh?
You have the tests, and theyre VERY clear on performance. And sorry, but for now, recommendation is AMD (not just current performance but tests on dx12 performance). No matter how much some people want it to be otherwise.
Would it change anything if Dx12 didn't become an industry standard though? at the moment only a very small percentage of PC's can actually use Dx12, so current gpu tests using it, are not really good examples, if the same results are obtained using Dx11, then the arguments have more strength, as that is the most likely version of Directx that is going to be used for the next couple of years, assuming of course that both the Xb1 and more importantly, the PS4 are largely based on Dx11 or its equivalent, and as PS4 has a 2:1 ratio to Xb1 its probably going to be the single most determining factor in future games, probably for several years, as is the PC ratio of Win7 to Win10, which at the moment, more people are still using Win 8 than Win 10, with Win 7 still being the OS of choice for most of the worlds PC users - https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 So while the tests on current cards using Dx12 are interesting, they have little meaning in and of themselves, particularly as there aren't even any gpu's out there yet that even fully support Dx12 to begin with. Perhaps when Dx12 is a bit more relevant, there will be more of a reason to choose one brand over another; http://www.dsogaming.com/news/amd-theres-no-such-thing-as-full-support-for-dx12-today-lists-missing-dx12-features-for-furyx/ Its probably not a good idea to buy any card currently, if your looking for Dx12 performance, as the current tests carried out, don't necessarily tell the whole story. At least until such time as Dx12 becomes relevant.
Do you believe that adoption of DirectX 12 and Vulkan is going to go up from where it is now, stay about the same, or go down? I know what I'd bet on. Vulkan isn't tied to Windows 10, either.
Of course, go up how fast and how soon matters a lot, as does how long you'll keep the card.
Microsoft can not afford to alienate game developers by making the new DX12 only available to 8% of the possible customers. No game developer will develop anything for DX12.
Sorry, but many people buy GPUs for a few years. And just yesterday i saw Win10 is already at 100m mark.
If you REALLY think than MS will not push dx12 youre deluded. In fact dx12 might push more people to go to Win10.
Test tell what tests tell, and they tell AMD>NVidia in dx12. Of course, its just test, but still its better than you claiming dx12 is years away. And DX12 will be relevant very soon. Quite a few games already slated for it. You can very easily google it and see its already quite impressive list and its growing.
Now Win10 is irrelevant in this whole matter. Make up your mind.
---
DX12 is a big step for both NVIDIA and AMD. Both will benefit equally from it and it favors no particular Manufacturer. I know this because i have been working with the API for at least 18 months on both NVIDIA and AMD based Platforms. In fact, the CPU and OS play a much bigger role in this new API than the Graphics cards. Upcoming changes to Motherboards and North bridge design will play an even bigger role.
The XB1 console will benefit little if anything from DX12. The current XB1 API is already using a very high optimization level that is very close to the metal.
For DX12 to really make a difference the Hardware needs to be able to handle the increased bandwidth of the multi-thread optimizations built into DX12. The XB1 is certainly not a platform with any CPU or bandwidth overhead.
theory is nice, but practice shows differently. We definitely need more real world tests. But Mantle showed GREAT improvements over DX. But since you cannot compare brands, all we have for now are scarce dx12 tests-and for now they show what they show.
You will excuse me if i dont give a damn someone claiming random stuff on teh internet, if you have something concrete to back up your claims, if not...
MS will do ANYTHING to get every little bit of performance out of xb1 and im quite sure PS4 will get some equivalent.
And what YOU seem to fail to understand is RELEVANT market share, as you see on Steam survey, Win10 is going up nicely. Data is there. When dx12 games start to arrive, and if theres some decent benefits (performance gains) of having DX12, transition will be THAT much faster. Win10 is free to most people. And it works fine. And how many people do you think will say no to free performance upgrade?
And pretty much EVERYONE wants to push dx12, MS, AMD, NVidia. Probably Intel is only one who has something to lose in this. And MS and NVidia are not know for their subtlety.
I finally found one article where Mantle showed "great improvements" - however, I would take these benchmarks with a grain of salt. I'm not all that trusting of this particular post, and couldn't find any other benchmark data to verify it against http://wccftech.com/mantle-api-directx-thief-benchmarks-direct3d-creamed/
I finally found one article where Mantle showed "great improvements" - however, I would take these benchmarks with a grain of salt. I'm not all that trusting of this particular post, and couldn't find any other benchmark data to verify it against http://wccftech.com/mantle-api-directx-thief-benchmarks-direct3d-creamed/
@MrSnuffles ; As usual when cornered and having to face your own posts, you're not answering the points made but posting some weak defense (with a good amount of "pot calling the kettle black" poured into it) and engage in some bragging nobody can verify, and which is contradicted by the nonsense contained in your own posts.
So what about those steam numbers? Fake because the C++ "engineer" says so? Yeah, sure.
And note that again, just like my previous post, I don't attack you personally, but only what you claim to know, and the content of your posts, which is in my opinion, which I demonstrated with facts (aka numbers) everyone can verify, mostly nonsense.
Never said anything about Steam numbers. You just made that up.
What did you demonstrate? You made up some "fact" that i said steam numbers are wrong. You posted Steam numbers while i was talking about installation base. Something completely different. Now you use it as an argument. I think it's pretty clear who is talking nonsense.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
And what YOU seem to fail to understand is RELEVANT market share, as you see on Steam survey, Win10 is going up nicely. Data is there. When dx12 games start to arrive, and if theres some decent benefits (performance gains) of having DX12, transition will be THAT much faster. Win10 is free to most people. And it works fine. And how many people do you think will say no to free performance upgrade?
And pretty much EVERYONE wants to push dx12, MS, AMD, NVidia. Probably Intel is only one who has something to lose in this. And MS and NVidia are not know for their subtlety.
Sure the "Steam Elite Gamers" adopt Win10 faster but that is only 10% if not less of the whole gamer market and DX12 is going to be multi platform too.
Steam has 120 million accounts, of which 30% are scam accounts, inactive or duplicates. Some estimate even more. You know why Counter Strike still sells so good right?
Compared to PC owners in the northern hemisphere alone Steam is insignificant. Estimate of 70% of all households have downloaded and played games. 70% of 1.2 billion households in Europe and North America. Not counting Russia and Asia. You do the math.
Steam is big, but insignificant in the big picture.
PS: Google the info on these numbers if you want and don't nail me on them. They might even be higher now, this was what i remember form a meeting with major publishers back in 2012.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
And what YOU seem to fail to understand is RELEVANT market share, as you see on Steam survey, Win10 is going up nicely. Data is there. When dx12 games start to arrive, and if theres some decent benefits (performance gains) of having DX12, transition will be THAT much faster. Win10 is free to most people. And it works fine. And how many people do you think will say no to free performance upgrade?
And pretty much EVERYONE wants to push dx12, MS, AMD, NVidia. Probably Intel is only one who has something to lose in this. And MS and NVidia are not know for their subtlety.
Sure the "Steam Elite Gamers" adopt Win10 faster but that is only 10% if not less of the whole gamer market and DX12 is going to be multi platform too.
Steam has 120 million accounts, of which 30% are scam accounts, inactive or duplicates. Some estimate even more. You know why Counter Strike still sells so good right?
Compared to PC owners in the northern hemisphere alone Steam is insignificant. Estimate of 70% of all households have downloaded and played games. 70% of 1.2 billion households in Europe and North America. Not counting Russia and Asia. You do the math.
Steam is big, but insignificant in the big picture.
PS: Google the info on these numbers if you want and don't nail me on them. They might even be higher now, this was what i remember form a meeting with major publishers back in 2012.
Dude...games PC games DONT SELL in hundreds of millions. Publishers DONT CARE except for their TARGET AUDIENCE.
We are NOT talking about browser games lol
Skyrim, which sold like champ sold 22-23m and THIRD of that on PC.
If you think Steam is irrelevant for PC gaming....you should have your head checked.
And what YOU seem to fail to understand is RELEVANT market share, as you see on Steam survey, Win10 is going up nicely. Data is there. When dx12 games start to arrive, and if theres some decent benefits (performance gains) of having DX12, transition will be THAT much faster. Win10 is free to most people. And it works fine. And how many people do you think will say no to free performance upgrade?
And pretty much EVERYONE wants to push dx12, MS, AMD, NVidia. Probably Intel is only one who has something to lose in this. And MS and NVidia are not know for their subtlety.
Sure the "Steam Elite Gamers" adopt Win10 faster but that is only 10% if not less of the whole gamer market and DX12 is going to be multi platform too.
Steam has 120 million accounts, of which 30% are scam accounts, inactive or duplicates. Some estimate even more. You know why Counter Strike still sells so good right?
Compared to PC owners in the northern hemisphere alone Steam is insignificant. Estimate of 70% of all households have downloaded and played games. 70% of 1.2 billion households in Europe and North America. Not counting Russia and Asia. You do the math.
Steam is big, but insignificant in the big picture.
PS: Google the info on these numbers if you want and don't nail me on them. They might even be higher now, this was what i remember form a meeting with major publishers back in 2012.
Dude...games PC games DONT SELL in hundreds of millions. Publishers DONT CARE except for their TARGET AUDIENCE.
We are NOT talking about browser games lol
Skyrim, which sold like champ sold 22-23m and THIRD of that on PC.
If you think Steam is irrelevant for PC gaming....you should have your head checked.
This discussion was about Windows 10 adoption rate (8% worldwide was my initial argument) and DX12 not about game sales. Publishers care about much more than steam, some even don't care about Steam at all. DX12 is used for much more than just Steam games.
Are we talking about DX12 and Windows 10 or are we talking about Steam game sales. Because if it is the later then you are talking with the wrong person. I have never said anything about that at all.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
lol, you seem kinda lost here. We are talking about DX12 in GAMES. And GAMES THAT MATTER. Publisher for GAMES care about GAMERS, you know, people who BUY their GAMES, aka TARGET AUDIENCE.
Thats why Win10 adoption rate among GAMERS is RELEVANT for DX12 for GAMES.
At work we still use XP because our software wont work on anything above
What we DONT do AT WORK is PLAY GAMES and as such are IRRELEVANT to PUBLISHERS.
lol, you seem kinda lost here. We are talking about DX12 in GAMES. And GAMES THAT MATTER. Publisher for GAMES care about GAMERS, you know, people who BUY their GAMES, aka TARGET AUDIENCE.
Thats why Win10 adoption rate among GAMERS is RELEVANT for DX12 for GAMES.
At work we still use XP because our software wont work on anything above
What we DONT do AT WORK is PLAY GAMES and as such are IRRELEVANT to PUBLISHERS.
Really? I mean do i really have to quote it for you:
Microsoft can not afford to alienate game developers by making the new DX12 only available to 8% of the possible customers. No game developer will develop anything for DX12.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
I've never understood this loyalty to a brand. At some point you would've wasted money on an inferior ATI/AMD card in the past, same with NVIDIA.
It will be the same with future cards aswell.
This.
THE idiotic thing is justifying it with fairy tales.
Except we aren't talking about myths or fables, but actual occurences. People will make decisions over buying products, quite often based on previous experiences with a particular brand etc, and this will often colour their perception of a particular brand irrevocably, once bitten twice shy for example. So despite improvements over past examples of a particular brands products, customers can often end up avoiding a particular brand because of their history. Facts, however unappealing they might be, are not fairy tales.
FACT: both brands had enough shitty drivers so throwing around fairy tale that one has better drivers than the other is uneducated (fanboi) drivel.
So yeah, thats FACTS.
You knowingly buy inferior product and you have to justify it to yourself and the world. I simply dont care rofl
For instance peopel STILL gave 20-30% more money for ASUS brand when all GPUs were reference design/production and all you had to do is put your sticker on it. EXACTLY SAME GPU with different sticker.
So tell me, wheres your "facts" now.
Or, now ASUS tries to compete with STRIXX. Its still much more expensive than other superior products.
SO please, spare us the talk. You want to buy inferior, as i said, fine, but fairy tales dont fly. Your justifications WHY you buy inferior (or more expensive) are yours to deal with.
Actually most of the time nvidia gives better performance and people who want the very best performance go for Intel and nvidia. Intel destroys amd in cpu performance and most of the top nvidia gpus give better performance.
whether they are better value for money is a completely different story, as nvidia and Intel are almost always more expensive.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I've never understood this loyalty to a brand. At some point you would've wasted money on an inferior ATI/AMD card in the past, same with NVIDIA.
It will be the same with future cards aswell.
This.
THE idiotic thing is justifying it with fairy tales.
Except we aren't talking about myths or fables, but actual occurences. People will make decisions over buying products, quite often based on previous experiences with a particular brand etc, and this will often colour their perception of a particular brand irrevocably, once bitten twice shy for example. So despite improvements over past examples of a particular brands products, customers can often end up avoiding a particular brand because of their history. Facts, however unappealing they might be, are not fairy tales.
FACT: both brands had enough shitty drivers so throwing around fairy tale that one has better drivers than the other is uneducated (fanboi) drivel.
So yeah, thats FACTS.
You knowingly buy inferior product and you have to justify it to yourself and the world. I simply dont care rofl
For instance peopel STILL gave 20-30% more money for ASUS brand when all GPUs were reference design/production and all you had to do is put your sticker on it. EXACTLY SAME GPU with different sticker.
So tell me, wheres your "facts" now.
Or, now ASUS tries to compete with STRIXX. Its still much more expensive than other superior products.
SO please, spare us the talk. You want to buy inferior, as i said, fine, but fairy tales dont fly. Your justifications WHY you buy inferior (or more expensive) are yours to deal with.
Actually most of the time nvidia gives better performance and people who want the very best performance go for Intel and nvidia. Intel destroys amd in cpu performance and most of the top nvidia gpus give better performance.
whether they are better value for money is a completely different story, as nvidia and Intel are almost always more expensive.
The number of people that go for top stuff is actually irrelevant. Again, if you want to educate yourself on the matter go to steam stats. It has hardware stats too.
Not everyone has 3000$ for gaming rig. far far from it.
lol, you seem kinda lost here. We are talking about DX12 in GAMES. And GAMES THAT MATTER. Publisher for GAMES care about GAMERS, you know, people who BUY their GAMES, aka TARGET AUDIENCE.
Thats why Win10 adoption rate among GAMERS is RELEVANT for DX12 for GAMES.
At work we still use XP because our software wont work on anything above
What we DONT do AT WORK is PLAY GAMES and as such are IRRELEVANT to PUBLISHERS.
Really? I mean do i really have to quote it for you:
Microsoft can not afford to alienate game developers by making the new DX12 only available to 8% of the possible customers. No game developer will develop anything for DX12.
I've never understood this loyalty to a brand. At some point you would've wasted money on an inferior ATI/AMD card in the past, same with NVIDIA.
It will be the same with future cards aswell.
This.
THE idiotic thing is justifying it with fairy tales.
Except we aren't talking about myths or fables, but actual occurences. People will make decisions over buying products, quite often based on previous experiences with a particular brand etc, and this will often colour their perception of a particular brand irrevocably, once bitten twice shy for example. So despite improvements over past examples of a particular brands products, customers can often end up avoiding a particular brand because of their history. Facts, however unappealing they might be, are not fairy tales.
FACT: both brands had enough shitty drivers so throwing around fairy tale that one has better drivers than the other is uneducated (fanboi) drivel.
So yeah, thats FACTS.
You knowingly buy inferior product and you have to justify it to yourself and the world. I simply dont care rofl
For instance peopel STILL gave 20-30% more money for ASUS brand when all GPUs were reference design/production and all you had to do is put your sticker on it. EXACTLY SAME GPU with different sticker.
So tell me, wheres your "facts" now.
Or, now ASUS tries to compete with STRIXX. Its still much more expensive than other superior products.
SO please, spare us the talk. You want to buy inferior, as i said, fine, but fairy tales dont fly. Your justifications WHY you buy inferior (or more expensive) are yours to deal with.
Actually most of the time nvidia gives better performance and people who want the very best performance go for Intel and nvidia. Intel destroys amd in cpu performance and most of the top nvidia gpus give better performance.
whether they are better value for money is a completely different story, as nvidia and Intel are almost always more expensive.
While Nvidia does give better top end performance than AMD substantially more often than not (due to their willingness to build larger dies), it's also out of the price range of most people. When's the last time that a sub-$500 Nvidia GPU was clearly faster than anything AMD offered? 2009, maybe? If you're looking to spend $200 on a GPU, it shouldn't matter who has the best $650 GPU. What matters is who has the best $200 GPU, and that is often AMD.
And the war rages.... I have used both.. Both companies offer decent GPUs depending on what you want...If you're playing on a console, you're using an AMD GPU... Playing games on a notebook? Probably using a Team Green Chip....(AMD's current switchable notebook graphics kind of stink... Integrated APUs aren't bad for lower end...)
Reality is AMD currently uses a brute force approach. They use more power and run hotter. I ran the last generation of AMD cards and was extremely happy with my R9 290 X. My most recent build, I went with a Nvidia 980 Ti which is using less power and demolishes all I throw at it. I also like how Nvidia handles shadows better..
If I wanted one of those new curved 34 inch Acer monitors (XR431KC), I'd go with AMD so I could use Freesync which looks amazing...
The test in the link references a lot of 4K results at 1440 etc... which is really exciting if you are playing at those resolutions. Right now, 4K gaming looks like poop....One is much better off buying one of the 34 inch IPS panels like the Acer I mentioned and driving that for a great gaming experience. The reality is most of us will be driving 4 K with the next or gen after next graphic cards as the market catches up to the tech.
Personallly, I drive 2 24" IPS screens at 1080 so either high end solution works although after seeing my buddy's curved IPS panel, I want one. Not a gimmick; it looks amazing.
So what about those steam numbers? Fake because the C++ "engineer" says so? Yeah, sure.
And note that again, just like my previous post, I don't attack you personally, but only what you claim to know, and the content of your posts, which is in my opinion, which I demonstrated with facts (aka numbers) everyone can verify, mostly nonsense.
Never said anything about Steam numbers. You just made that up.
What did you demonstrate? You made up some "fact" that i said steam numbers are wrong. You posted Steam numbers while i was talking about installation base. Something completely different. Now you use it as an argument. I think it's pretty clear who is talking nonsense.
Still waiting that you answer about those steam numbers, and for you to understand the difference between "general windows user" and "windows gamer" . Not holding my breath, though, because that would imply admitting you were wrong.
Wrong about what exactly? I never talked about steam numbers. I never said they are Fake. You just made that up out of thin air. There is nothing to discuss with you as you have brought forth no argument, just lies.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
The only game that has dx12 mode that actually works is Ashes of Singularity, the only other 2 games that have it at all are Caffeine and Descent:Undeground(early acess), and they both have it in a testing capacity with the dx12 giving worse performance in about 35%-50% of pc configurations, so yeah, dx12 really "is here"
In other news AMD released biggest driver upgrade since 1999, which coincidentally is also the best one since the inception of GPUs.
I've never understood this loyalty to a brand. At some point you would've wasted money on an inferior ATI/AMD card in the past, same with NVIDIA.
It will be the same with future cards aswell.
This.
THE idiotic thing is justifying it with fairy tales.
Except we aren't talking about myths or fables, but actual occurences. People will make decisions over buying products, quite often based on previous experiences with a particular brand etc, and this will often colour their perception of a particular brand irrevocably, once bitten twice shy for example. So despite improvements over past examples of a particular brands products, customers can often end up avoiding a particular brand because of their history. Facts, however unappealing they might be, are not fairy tales.
FACT: both brands had enough shitty drivers so throwing around fairy tale that one has better drivers than the other is uneducated (fanboi) drivel.
So yeah, thats FACTS.
You knowingly buy inferior product and you have to justify it to yourself and the world. I simply dont care rofl
For instance peopel STILL gave 20-30% more money for ASUS brand when all GPUs were reference design/production and all you had to do is put your sticker on it. EXACTLY SAME GPU with different sticker.
So tell me, wheres your "facts" now.
Or, now ASUS tries to compete with STRIXX. Its still much more expensive than other superior products.
SO please, spare us the talk. You want to buy inferior, as i said, fine, but fairy tales dont fly. Your justifications WHY you buy inferior (or more expensive) are yours to deal with.
Actually most of the time nvidia gives better performance and people who want the very best performance go for Intel and nvidia. Intel destroys amd in cpu performance and most of the top nvidia gpus give better performance.
whether they are better value for money is a completely different story, as nvidia and Intel are almost always more expensive.
While Nvidia does give better top end performance than AMD substantially more often than not (due to their willingness to build larger dies), it's also out of the price range of most people. When's the last time that a sub-$500 Nvidia GPU was clearly faster than anything AMD offered? 2009, maybe? If you're looking to spend $200 on a GPU, it shouldn't matter who has the best $650 GPU. What matters is who has the best $200 GPU, and that is often AMD.
I am saying why some people like me prefer Nvidia. I am not interested in what the majority of people prefer or what they can afford. For me GTX 970 or 980 are both pretty decent and not overly expensive.
I also don't like how the new AMD card like R3 390 and R3 390x are burning hot. YOu need a freaking fire extinguisher for those cards. For some people efficiency and temperature and heat and fan noise are not very important and they care about pure raw power. For me GTX 970 and 980 are the clear winners. I mean GTX 980 smacks the new AMD cards and half the power usage.
Again I am not saying that Nvidia is always better. It's targeted to diffferent demographics. My response was to that guy who claims that because we are buying NVIDIA we are blind fanboys who settle for an "inferior" product. There are many pros to picking the Nvidia cards and often the only downside is price.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I've never understood this loyalty to a brand. At some point you would've wasted money on an inferior ATI/AMD card in the past, same with NVIDIA.
It will be the same with future cards aswell.
This.
THE idiotic thing is justifying it with fairy tales.
Except we aren't talking about myths or fables, but actual occurences. People will make decisions over buying products, quite often based on previous experiences with a particular brand etc, and this will often colour their perception of a particular brand irrevocably, once bitten twice shy for example. So despite improvements over past examples of a particular brands products, customers can often end up avoiding a particular brand because of their history. Facts, however unappealing they might be, are not fairy tales.
FACT: both brands had enough shitty drivers so throwing around fairy tale that one has better drivers than the other is uneducated (fanboi) drivel.
So yeah, thats FACTS.
You knowingly buy inferior product and you have to justify it to yourself and the world. I simply dont care rofl
For instance peopel STILL gave 20-30% more money for ASUS brand when all GPUs were reference design/production and all you had to do is put your sticker on it. EXACTLY SAME GPU with different sticker.
So tell me, wheres your "facts" now.
Or, now ASUS tries to compete with STRIXX. Its still much more expensive than other superior products.
SO please, spare us the talk. You want to buy inferior, as i said, fine, but fairy tales dont fly. Your justifications WHY you buy inferior (or more expensive) are yours to deal with.
Actually most of the time nvidia gives better performance and people who want the very best performance go for Intel and nvidia. Intel destroys amd in cpu performance and most of the top nvidia gpus give better performance.
whether they are better value for money is a completely different story, as nvidia and Intel are almost always more expensive.
The number of people that go for top stuff is actually irrelevant. Again, if you want to educate yourself on the matter go to steam stats. It has hardware stats too.
Not everyone has 3000$ for gaming rig. far far from it.
What are you talking about? $3000? I got a i5 6600k, 16 gb ddr4, ssd, decent PSU and motherboard, and GTX 980 for a lot less, a lot less! No where near $3000. I got them for about $1700 or so when converted from £ to $. And my rig is no where near high end, more like mid range I would say.
ANyway I know a lot of people use low end hardware and I have seen the steam stats. How does that affect my personal decision? I am talking about me personally, of course, the decision for everyone will be different based on their needs, budget etc. I didn't say AMD cards are not needed. I said I prefer intel and nvidia.
I don't think the nvidia cards are an "Inferior" product as you said. You are purely looking at pure performance but did you factor in that those cards run really hot and they release a lot of heat? They are also quite big and no where near as efficient as their Nvidia counterparts. And to top it off, the AMD cards will not overclock no where near the nvidia cards as they are already prety much an overclocked version of their previous cards.
If you have a fire extinguisher for your PC, go for R3 390X. But also bear in mind that AMD do not perform the best at every game and also they are not nearly as efficient. And Nvidia tend to have better driver support and optimisation.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Comments
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Also it says that these so called performance drivers are not going to be part of their upcoming software,so considering we are talking w10 and it's not really moving forward with w10,it is meaningless.
Also special drivers and a special gpu setup to make it look good is not the same as me or you buying a stock component over the counter.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Of course, that's partially hindsight bias, as getting clobbered enough generations in a row is how you go out of business or at least become irrelevant to gamers. See Matrox.
Do you believe that adoption of DirectX 12 and Vulkan is going to go up from where it is now, stay about the same, or go down? I know what I'd bet on. Vulkan isn't tied to Windows 10, either.
Of course, go up how fast and how soon matters a lot, as does how long you'll keep the card.
You will excuse me if i dont give a damn someone claiming random stuff on teh internet, if you have something concrete to back up your claims, if not...
MS will do ANYTHING to get every little bit of performance out of xb1 and im quite sure PS4 will get some equivalent.
And what YOU seem to fail to understand is RELEVANT market share, as you see on Steam survey, Win10 is going up nicely. Data is there. When dx12 games start to arrive, and if theres some decent benefits (performance gains) of having DX12, transition will be THAT much faster. Win10 is free to most people. And it works fine. And how many people do you think will say no to free performance upgrade?
And pretty much EVERYONE wants to push dx12, MS, AMD, NVidia. Probably Intel is only one who has something to lose in this. And MS and NVidia are not know for their subtlety.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Really?
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015/04/01/battlefield_hardline_performance_video_card_review/4#.VlQNgdirRaQ
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/04/29/amd_radeon_r9_295x2_crossfire_video_card_review/4#.VlQNt9irRaQ
This site isn't as reputable, but I wanted to find a game that wasn't Battlefied (although it's based on the same engine, I guess)
http://www.hardwarepal.com/dragon-age-inquisition-benchmark-mantle-vs-directx/
I finally found one article where Mantle showed "great improvements" - however, I would take these benchmarks with a grain of salt. I'm not all that trusting of this particular post, and couldn't find any other benchmark data to verify it against
http://wccftech.com/mantle-api-directx-thief-benchmarks-direct3d-creamed/
Here is a unique case comparing Mantle to DX12 - just throwing this out there for additional speculation, the results are interesting.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8962/the-directx-12-performance-preview-amd-nvidia-star-swarm/6
There are PLENTY of examples to see and you picked 1 game from 1 site....in CF.
When GPU bound Mantle helped even then - raising MIN FPS.
Any evidence or only personal attacks?
Never said anything about Steam numbers. You just made that up.
What did you demonstrate? You made up some "fact" that i said steam numbers are wrong. You posted Steam numbers while i was talking about installation base. Something completely different. Now you use it as an argument. I think it's pretty clear who is talking nonsense.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Sure the "Steam Elite Gamers" adopt Win10 faster but that is only 10% if not less of the whole gamer market and DX12 is going to be multi platform too.
Steam has 120 million accounts, of which 30% are scam accounts, inactive or duplicates. Some estimate even more. You know why Counter Strike still sells so good right?
Compared to PC owners in the northern hemisphere alone Steam is insignificant. Estimate of 70% of all households have downloaded and played games. 70% of 1.2 billion households in Europe and North America. Not counting Russia and Asia. You do the math.
Steam is big, but insignificant in the big picture.
PS: Google the info on these numbers if you want and don't nail me on them. They might even be higher now, this was what i remember form a meeting with major publishers back in 2012.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
We are NOT talking about browser games lol
Skyrim, which sold like champ sold 22-23m and THIRD of that on PC.
If you think Steam is irrelevant for PC gaming....you should have your head checked.
Here is your reality check:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_games
Are we talking about DX12 and Windows 10 or are we talking about Steam game sales. Because if it is the later then you are talking with the wrong person. I have never said anything about that at all.
You need to make up your mind.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Thats why Win10 adoption rate among GAMERS is RELEVANT for DX12 for GAMES.
At work we still use XP because our software wont work on anything above
What we DONT do AT WORK is PLAY GAMES and as such are IRRELEVANT to PUBLISHERS.
Nothing about games at all. This was about Win 10 and DX12 coming to Win7. Reading comprehension, do you have it?
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
whether they are better value for money is a completely different story, as nvidia and Intel are almost always more expensive.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Not everyone has 3000$ for gaming rig. far far from it.
dx12 is here on win10. If you want to wait for a possibility it will get to win7....who cares rofl.
And i would suggest that you read your own first post very carefully.
Reality is AMD currently uses a brute force approach. They use more power and run hotter. I ran the last generation of AMD cards and was extremely happy with my R9 290 X. My most recent build, I went with a Nvidia 980 Ti which is using less power and demolishes all I throw at it. I also like how Nvidia handles shadows better..
If I wanted one of those new curved 34 inch Acer monitors (XR431KC), I'd go with AMD so I could use Freesync which looks amazing...
The test in the link references a lot of 4K results at 1440 etc... which is really exciting if you are playing at those resolutions. Right now, 4K gaming looks like poop....One is much better off buying one of the 34 inch IPS panels like the Acer I mentioned and driving that for a great gaming experience. The reality is most of us will be driving 4 K with the next or gen after next graphic cards as the market catches up to the tech.
Personallly, I drive 2 24" IPS screens at 1080 so either high end solution works although after seeing my buddy's curved IPS panel, I want one. Not a gimmick; it looks amazing.
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
In other news AMD released biggest driver upgrade since 1999, which coincidentally is also the best one since the inception of GPUs.
I also don't like how the new AMD card like R3 390 and R3 390x are burning hot. YOu need a freaking fire extinguisher for those cards. For some people efficiency and temperature and heat and fan noise are not very important and they care about pure raw power. For me GTX 970 and 980 are the clear winners. I mean GTX 980 smacks the new AMD cards and half the power usage.
Again I am not saying that Nvidia is always better. It's targeted to diffferent demographics. My response was to that guy who claims that because we are buying NVIDIA we are blind fanboys who settle for an "inferior" product. There are many pros to picking the Nvidia cards and often the only downside is price.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
What are you talking about? $3000? I got a i5 6600k, 16 gb ddr4, ssd, decent PSU and motherboard, and GTX 980 for a lot less, a lot less! No where near $3000. I got them for about $1700 or so when converted from £ to $. And my rig is no where near high end, more like mid range I would say.
ANyway I know a lot of people use low end hardware and I have seen the steam stats. How does that affect my personal decision? I am talking about me personally, of course, the decision for everyone will be different based on their needs, budget etc. I didn't say AMD cards are not needed. I said I prefer intel and nvidia.
I don't think the nvidia cards are an "Inferior" product as you said. You are purely looking at pure performance but did you factor in that those cards run really hot and they release a lot of heat? They are also quite big and no where near as efficient as their Nvidia counterparts. And to top it off, the AMD cards will not overclock no where near the nvidia cards as they are already prety much an overclocked version of their previous cards.
If you have a fire extinguisher for your PC, go for R3 390X. But also bear in mind that AMD do not perform the best at every game and also they are not nearly as efficient. And Nvidia tend to have better driver support and optimisation.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.