Because sword users were like jet fighters of the battlefield. No one wants to be the boring line member, they want to be the person sent into a dynamic/FUBAR situation and fix it.
That distinction was for the Axe and Hammer. Even today, many soldiers carry a personal axe with them into combat. The Hammer was the number one weapon in Europe for Centuries, followed by the Axe.
Swords were not slashing weapons, they were thrusting piercing weapons. Only the points where sharpened. Because of poor metallurgy a thin sharp blade would shatter in combat. A thick dull blade could be used to disarm an opponent, then the tip could be thrust for the kill.
The sharpened blade of Japan was a rarity not the norm for swords. People watch the History Channel, come on.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I think it's in a large part due to the fact that a spear you really have to hold on to it. All the weapons in MMOs you generally put them away when you aren't fighting. Longer than long bows they would look pretty awkward across your back. They are more weapons of war, than adventurer's tools.
Slashing weapons have better graphical affects. I think MMO devs like the broad sweeping actions. They probably display better on screen. Don't see a lot of thrusting actions in combat in games.
Spear animations aren't done because they are in fact incredibly complex and developers don't bother. It is also a weapon best used in formation and on mount which almost no mmo bothers to implement (or properly).
Spears (and pole arms) are terribly effective and were used for individual fighting, as your link shows. They were no more "best used in formation" than other weapons. For a more detailed presentation on spear versus sword look at: https://youtu.be/l2YgGY_OBx8 and https://youtu.be/O8RWLxlzTiM
Saying spears are best used in formation has nothing to do with how other weapons are deployed. I mentioned no other weapon and only mentioned it with relation to game development. Please read properly.
Slashing weapons have better graphical affects. I think MMO devs like the broad sweeping actions. They probably display better on screen. Don't see a lot of thrusting actions in combat in games.
Spear animations aren't done because they are in fact incredibly complex and developers don't bother. It is also a weapon best used in formation and on mount which almost no mmo bothers to implement (or properly).
Spears (and pole arms) are terribly effective and were used for individual fighting, as your link shows. They were no more "best used in formation" than other weapons. For a more detailed presentation on spear versus sword look at: https://youtu.be/l2YgGY_OBx8 and https://youtu.be/O8RWLxlzTiM
Saying spears are best used in formation has nothing to do with how other weapons are deployed. I mentioned no other weapon and only mentioned it with relation to game development. Please read properly.
LOL, try doing that yourself.
Swords are best used in formation too, look at the Roman Legions. Sabres work better on horseback than they do on foot etc. Large spear formations like the Greek phalanx or Swiss pike square are very effective on even ground but not so good on broken ground etc.
Spears and pole arms are effective individual weapons and were used for melee fighting on foot. They could be easily incorporated in a game without the need to implement formations or mounted combat.
I think it's in a large part due to the fact that a spear you really have to hold on to it. All the weapons in MMOs you generally put them away when you aren't fighting. Longer than long bows they would look pretty awkward across your back. They are more weapons of war, than adventurer's tools.
Except that "great swords" and other two handers are accommodated these were always carried in the hand and were indeed heavy. Spears on the other hand have been used by many cultures as the primary weapon in war and in hunting, so yes they would be very effective adventurer's tools. I would expect an adventurer to have a sword as a secondary weapon but the weapon they most used would be some form of spear or pole arm.
I think it's in a large part due to the fact that a spear you really have to hold on to it. All the weapons in MMOs you generally put them away when you aren't fighting. Longer than long bows they would look pretty awkward across your back.
One can see that in action in Mortal Online. I don't know if things have changed, but back when I played, the weapon of choice was a 10-12 foot long QTip-looking lance or flanged macethat automagically can fit through any doorway or passage that the player can fit through, defies gravity, and can be weilded as adeptly as a perfectly-balanced sword. Using one simply looked ridiculous.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
One of the things that can be done with a long weapon like a spear is have ranks of spearmen fighting.
Not all spears are long though.
So you are saying most are not long? Or are the short ones the exception? Traditionally a military spear is long so they can fight in ranks. That is a major advantage of using a spear.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
That's because most MMORPGs are based on medieval fantasy. I don't think spears were widely used during that time, except for the Roman/Barbarian era or earlier. For melee weapons, it was mostly shields, flails, swords, etc. And the magic weapons were based on fantasy and myths, such as staves, scepters, etc.
I'm probably wrong, but this is my perception of it.
One of the things that can be done with a long weapon like a spear is have ranks of spearmen fighting.
Not all spears are long though.
So you are saying most are not long? Or are the short ones the exception? Traditionally a military spear is long so they can fight in ranks. That is a major advantage of using a spear.
How long is long? A rifle with a fixed bayonet is a spear.
Spears have an intrinsic advantage over swords because they are longer. The sort of spears I think you are referring to are the Greek sarissa and the Swiss pike, both were much longer than normal. The 'normal' length for a spear was 6 to 10 feet with most spears under 8 feet in length.
That's because most MMORPGs are based on medieval fantasy. I don't think spears were widely used during that time, except for the Roman/Barbarian era or earlier. For melee weapons, it was mostly shields, flails, swords, etc. And the magic weapons were based on fantasy and myths, such as staves, scepters, etc.
I'm probably wrong, but this is my perception of it.
Yep that is a wide spread perception, but false. For example the Vikings use spears. At Agincourt the archers were protected by men with spears and pole arms. Spears had a very wide spread use in the Medieval period, there were far more spears on any battlefield than swords, axes and pole arms were also very common.
One of the things that can be done with a long weapon like a spear is have ranks of spearmen fighting.
Not all spears are long though.
So you are saying most are not long? Or are the short ones the exception? Traditionally a military spear is long so they can fight in ranks. That is a major advantage of using a spear.
How long is long? A rifle with a fixed bayonet is a spear.
Spears have an intrinsic advantage over swords because they are longer. The sort of spears I think you are referring to are the Greek sarissa and the Swiss pike, both were much longer than normal. The 'normal' length for a spear was 6 to 10 feet with most spears under 8 feet in length.
How long is long when I am talking about ranks? Are you being pedantic or what? Long enough to work in multiple ranks. I will call BS on the 6 - 10 feet thing being 'the most' in an absolute sense.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
There's nothing elegant or romantic about a spear. They're utilitarian.
Yep. There are a lot of books about magical swords, legends too. This is true for bows too. BUT SPEARS?? The only one I can think of is the "Spear of Destiny", aka the "Holy Spear" aka the "Spear of Longinus". This one had some mileage but as an artifact and not as a weapon.
One of the things that can be done with a long weapon like a spear is have ranks of spearmen fighting.
Not all spears are long though.
So you are saying most are not long? Or are the short ones the exception? Traditionally a military spear is long so they can fight in ranks. That is a major advantage of using a spear.
How long is long? A rifle with a fixed bayonet is a spear.
Spears have an intrinsic advantage over swords because they are longer. The sort of spears I think you are referring to are the Greek sarissa and the Swiss pike, both were much longer than normal. The 'normal' length for a spear was 6 to 10 feet with most spears under 8 feet in length.
How long is long when I am talking about ranks? Are you being pedantic or what? Long enough to work in multiple ranks. I will call BS on the 6 - 10 feet thing being 'the most' in an absolute sense.
LOL, but spears were not used in multiple ranks as you suggest except in certain special units like the Swiss Pikemen. You have a distorted view of how they were used, probably based on watching movies rather than looking at history.
The usual use of the spear on a battlefield (on foot at least) was very much the same as someone using a rifle with a bayonet in the nineteenth and twentieth century, as a thrusting weapon for individual combat.
Also who said that spear wasn't have any lore ? the lore of spears is older than the sword cause they are earliest weapon alone with axe .
Nope a staff is not a spear. A spear can be said to be a staff with a dagger on the end and perhaps if you, or your opponent, chops that dagger off it becomes a staff it certainly does not start as one.
I also suspect that spears have been around for much longer than staves. Neanderthals used spears, there is no evidence that they used a staff.
My guess as to why is that spears would be expected to have their own niche range, a mid-range set of rules for melee. That would mean a whole extra set of stats/mechanics/animations, etc. It is so much easier to just make ranged (magic/missle) and "up in yo' grill" melee.
"If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it." -Luke McKinney, The 7 Biggest Dick Moves in the History of Online Gaming
"In the end, SWG may have been more potential and promise than fulfilled expectation. But I'd rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity." -Raph Koster
My guess as to why is that spears would be expected to have their own niche range, a mid-range set of rules for melee. That would mean a whole extra set of stats/mechanics/animations, etc. It is so much easier to just make ranged (magic/missle) and "up in yo' grill" melee.
I think you are assuming that the spear is going to be thrown. That is not necessarily the case, while spears can be thrown they are often (nearly always?) used as thrusting weapons and stay in the hands. The melee range would be slightly larger than that of a sword but the minimum range would be the same.
One of the things that fascinates me in this discussion (but does not surprise) is that the arguments against the Great Sword (two hander) are much greater and yet gamers happily embrace them while despising the spear. Again I suspect it is the BAMF factor a huge sword is much more phallic than a spear.
You can even make a spear tank sensible actually..
The polearm isn't a very offensive weapon but can work well defensively and could keep the enemy at a inconvient distance (for the enemy), such that their blows hit with less force (tanks taking less damage, though armor/defense stat normally covers that) and are "easier to dodge" (read: tanks having higher evasion).
Some kind of sweeping attack that hits all enemies around the tank (melee range), causing agro.
I'd like that.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Slashing weapons have better graphical affects. I think MMO devs like the broad sweeping actions. They probably display better on screen. Don't see a lot of thrusting actions in combat in games.
Maybe the devs should watch the solo spearfighting in the movie 300
You can even make a spear tank sensible actually..
The polearm isn't a very offensive weapon but can work well defensively and could keep the enemy at a inconvient distance (for the enemy), such that their blows hit with less force (tanks taking less damage, though armor/defense stat normally covers that) and are "easier to dodge" (read: tanks having higher evasion).
Some kind of sweeping attack that hits all enemies around the tank (melee range), causing agro.
I'd like that.
Not sure I agree with polearms, spears particularly, not being offensive weapons. In fact if you are fighting with a sword and shield and encounter someone with a spear, or other polearm, your best option is to go on the defensive and look for opportunities to cut the shaft of the polearm (not that easy to do and you are probably going to have to hit the shaft at the same spot two or three times).
You can even make a spear tank sensible actually..
The polearm isn't a very offensive weapon but can work well defensively and could keep the enemy at a inconvient distance (for the enemy), such that their blows hit with less force (tanks taking less damage, though armor/defense stat normally covers that) and are "easier to dodge" (read: tanks having higher evasion).
Some kind of sweeping attack that hits all enemies around the tank (melee range), causing agro.
I'd like that.
Not sure I agree with polearms, spears particularly, not being offensive weapons. In fact if you are fighting with a sword and shield and encounter someone with a spear, or other polearm, your best option is to go on the defensive and look for opportunities to cut the shaft of the polearm (not that easy to do and you are probably going to have to hit the shaft at the same spot two or three times).
Yeah, I meant (but didn't say, my fault) that they're poorly offensive in close-quarters combat where the opponent is targeting you (thus one-on-one or tanking) because a sword/shield can operate effectively at close range.
For a DPS though, they'd work well.
I would just definitely like a Polearm tank. Practically every game goes sword/shield, axes, or great axe. At least one of those will have access to holy magic. Gets lame.
Of course, these are games so it doesn't have to make logical sense in the slightest. More spears/polearms could be fun.
Especially if the class who is a pitchfork-wielding farmer by day, vigilante by night! (someone else handle the details of that! before DC scoops us!)
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Slashing weapons have better graphical affects. I think MMO devs like the broad sweeping actions. They probably display better on screen. Don't see a lot of thrusting actions in combat in games.
Maybe the devs should watch the solo spearfighting in the movie 300
Comments
Swords were not slashing weapons, they were thrusting piercing weapons. Only the points where sharpened. Because of poor metallurgy a thin sharp blade would shatter in combat. A thick dull blade could be used to disarm an opponent, then the tip could be thrust for the kill.
The sharpened blade of Japan was a rarity not the norm for swords. People watch the History Channel, come on.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
You stay sassy!
Swords are best used in formation too, look at the Roman Legions. Sabres work better on horseback than they do on foot etc. Large spear formations like the Greek phalanx or Swiss pike square are very effective on even ground but not so good on broken ground etc.
Spears and pole arms are effective individual weapons and were used for melee fighting on foot. They could be easily incorporated in a game without the need to implement formations or mounted combat.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
So you are saying most are not long? Or are the short ones the exception? Traditionally a military spear is long so they can fight in ranks. That is a major advantage of using a spear.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I'm probably wrong, but this is my perception of it.
Spears have an intrinsic advantage over swords because they are longer. The sort of spears I think you are referring to are the Greek sarissa and the Swiss pike, both were much longer than normal. The 'normal' length for a spear was 6 to 10 feet with most spears under 8 feet in length.
How long is long when I am talking about ranks? Are you being pedantic or what? Long enough to work in multiple ranks. I will call BS on the 6 - 10 feet thing being 'the most' in an absolute sense.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
There are a lot of books about magical swords, legends too. This is true for bows too. BUT SPEARS??
The only one I can think of is the "Spear of Destiny", aka the "Holy Spear" aka the "Spear of Longinus". This one had some mileage but as an artifact and not as a weapon.
The usual use of the spear on a battlefield (on foot at least) was very much the same as someone using a rifle with a bayonet in the nineteenth and twentieth century, as a thrusting weapon for individual combat.
Also who said that spear wasn't have any lore ? the lore of spears is older than the sword cause they are earliest weapon alone with axe .
I also suspect that spears have been around for much longer than staves. Neanderthals used spears, there is no evidence that they used a staff.
"If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it."
-Luke McKinney, The 7 Biggest Dick Moves in the History of Online Gaming
"In the end, SWG may have been more potential and promise than fulfilled expectation. But I'd rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
-Raph Koster
One of the things that fascinates me in this discussion (but does not surprise) is that the arguments against the Great Sword (two hander) are much greater and yet gamers happily embrace them while despising the spear. Again I suspect it is the BAMF factor a huge sword is much more phallic than a spear.
The polearm isn't a very offensive weapon but can work well defensively and could keep the enemy at a inconvient distance (for the enemy), such that their blows hit with less force (tanks taking less damage, though armor/defense stat normally covers that) and are "easier to dodge" (read: tanks having higher evasion).
Some kind of sweeping attack that hits all enemies around the tank (melee range), causing agro.
I'd like that.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
For a DPS though, they'd work well.
I would just definitely like a Polearm tank. Practically every game goes sword/shield, axes, or great axe. At least one of those will have access to holy magic. Gets lame.
Of course, these are games so it doesn't have to make logical sense in the slightest. More spears/polearms could be fun.
Especially if the class who is a pitchfork-wielding farmer by day, vigilante by night! (someone else handle the details of that! before DC scoops us!)
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWufZDFSdMU Enjoy
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor