yay failbox console people rejoice at the ease of not knowing how to do simple things on computers. desktop computers are easier to maintain (aka cleaning the dust out to keep temperature up to 20 Celsius cooler). desktops have more airflow so they don't sit at higher temperatures then laptops and other small like computers such as consoles. Desktops have all parts replaceable easily without voiding a warranty working on something that was never meant to be worked on by a consumer . Desktops have power supplys that can actually support more video cards then it was shipped with on day one. And desktops costs just as much as sometimes cheaper then the prebuilt linux machines that do one thing play games at half the performance for the limited catalog or selection of games that are supported.
Oh and windows 10 already installs all updates itself, infact windows 8 already did most of that already. And then steam automatically installs updates too when installing games. And in December all nvidia cards will install updates itself too so the whole driver update once a year thing is already void and incorrect. And ati is changing their drivers too soon.
So this whole dream to have a linux alternative with no direct x that's been in the works for i don't know decades with a market of way under 1 % seems very unlikely to ever happen unless were talking about casual games for the phone or some nonsense. Windows already has like 99 % of all pc gaming market. But companies are too lazy to update old games or software to even keep up with new windows operating system when windows is the most market supported operating system. And you really think linux below 1% even has a chance wow. Atleast windows phone can atleast say their users are already on their ecosystem on their pc's they use everyday and that they can develop an app for the pc and phone at the same time without much extra effort for a huge chance at more userbase.
The real question is why. If they're compiling the same shader code written in the same language, I'm skeptical that what happens on the GPU proper would be wildly different.
They went out of their way to give it a very weak CPU: a 3.0 GHz dual core. That might have turned it into a CPU bottleneck that would have been fine on a faster CPU.
There's also a question of whether the code was comparably optimized. If you have one person write code for Windows and another person write code for Linux and one runs twice as fast as the other, that doesn't mean that one OS is twice as fast as the other. It more likely means that one person optimized code better than the other.
Last time i checked, SteamOS isnt even available for release. When it releases for consumer use, and it performs that much worse. There will be a story. Until then this is just ridiculous.
BTW, just for reference, i have no intention of using SteamOS, so, im not some fanboy, etc. Im perfectly happy with windows.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
The steam machines are just bad imo. I can build a lot better for cheaper. Install something like Manjaro and just d/l steam for linux. I really want linux to surpass windows in gaming but I am also a realist and that will not happen anytime soon as long as people take the easy way out and use Windows.
The real question is why. If they're compiling the same shader code written in the same language, I'm skeptical that what happens on the GPU proper would be wildly different.
They went out of their way to give it a very weak CPU: a 3.0 GHz dual core. That might have turned it into a CPU bottleneck that would have been fine on a faster CPU.
There's also a question of whether the code was comparably optimized. If you have one person write code for Windows and another person write code for Linux and one runs twice as fast as the other, that doesn't mean that one OS is twice as fast as the other. It more likely means that one person optimized code better than the other.
Drivers. Linux land has the most trouble with drivers.
The real question is why. If they're compiling the same shader code written in the same language, I'm skeptical that what happens on the GPU proper would be wildly different.
They went out of their way to give it a very weak CPU: a 3.0 GHz dual core. That might have turned it into a CPU bottleneck that would have been fine on a faster CPU.
There's also a question of whether the code was comparably optimized. If you have one person write code for Windows and another person write code for Linux and one runs twice as fast as the other, that doesn't mean that one OS is twice as fast as the other. It more likely means that one person optimized code better than the other.
Drivers. Linux land has the most trouble with drivers.
There's no reason for shader compilers to care which OS you're using. In terms of what happens internally on the GPU, it shouldn't matter what OS you're using. The GPU proper is not running Windows or Linux and wouldn't have any idea what to do with code compiled for x86.
Host code is a different story. There, I understand less of what's going on, but if Vulkan and DirectX 12 make the host code overhead matter a lot less, that could fix the problem.
The OpenGL drivers aren't nearly as optimised for the games as the DirectX drivers are. The reason you get Windows graphics driver updates with pretty much every big game released is because they're tweaked to hell to give every last bit of performance out of them. That doesn't happen with the OpenGL drivers.
And all that aside, the game is a port to OpenGL. It's very unlikely to have the same polish as the DirectX version that was originally sold.
If you look at Valve's games, they found that they had better performance with their engine under OpenGL + Linux than DirectX + Windows because they optimised the engine properly for it, compared to the older DX code.
tl;dr it's far more complicated than this click bait graph/headline suggests.
edit: here are a couple of relatively recent benchmarks of Unigine Heaven (which is well written in OpenGL and supported in drivers) on Windows 10 and Linux. I suppose the headline "performance in industry standard benchmark shows no difference at all" doesn't get as many clicks.
looks like dudes got some point about this unigine heaven / vulkan thingy. But you'll still have to dual boot and dedicate a seperate harddrive to linux file system. Therefore costing more money to play the one game going forward that has the support. And your old 20 years of gaming and files will still need to be on windows. I guess if you were so paranoid to hate windows you would probably already be on linux for years though jerry rigging drivers together to get basic computer apps to function and missing out on the wonderful world of adobe and other apps for daily productivity. Either way I don't see the vaule of switching file systems for the one rare fair fight where linux wins. And even then I'm pretty happy knowing my old graphics cards will be able to be combined with any gpu for more performance with direct x 12. Linux is probably still far from having features similar to those.
I used to play Vanilla and TBC WoW on Linux. Sure, it was always playable, but never better than Windows. And that was on an optimized minimal Kernel compiled specifically for my PC. For 10 years, Linux gaming has under performed Windows. So now all the sudden Steam figures this out and it's big news??????
I used to play Vanilla and TBC WoW on Linux. Sure, it was always playable, but never better than Windows. And that was on an optimized minimal Kernel compiled specifically for my PC. For 10 years, Linux gaming has under performed Windows. So now all the sudden Steam figures this out and it's big news??????
You ran WoW under a compatibility layer that translated DirectX to OpenGL on the fly, with drivers with no optimisation at all for it. That it works well at all is impressive. As for the rest, it's already addressed.
When next time somebody comes with a .docx document you'll have to start your windows machine anyway
So there is no reason to buy Steam Machine as dedicated system at all. You may expect any software to run on Windows in the end. So the niche of Steam Machine are the same as people who buy multiple consoles. Except you will be able to run any game on that console on PC. (expect jokes about xbox one lol)
For me I have no reason to buy steam machine - I have a pc: for what purpose I need another one? - except a dream of steam machine being less expensive than PC with same configuration. But I don't see that happening at all.
When next time somebody comes with a .docx document you'll have to start your windows machine anyway
So there is no reason to buy Steam Machine as dedicated system at all. You may expect any software to run on Windows in the end. So the niche of Steam Machine are the same as people who buy multiple consoles. Except you will be able to run any game on that console on PC. (expect jokes about xbox one lol)
For me I have no reason to buy steam machine - I have a pc: for what purpose I need another one? - except a dream of steam machine being less expensive than PC with same configuration. But I don't see that happening at all.
When next time somebody comes with a .docx document you'll have to start your windows machine anyway
So there is no reason to buy Steam Machine as dedicated system at all. You may expect any software to run on Windows in the end. So the niche of Steam Machine are the same as people who buy multiple consoles. Except you will be able to run any game on that console on PC. (expect jokes about xbox one lol)
For me I have no reason to buy steam machine - I have a pc: for what purpose I need another one? - except a dream of steam machine being less expensive than PC with same configuration. But I don't see that happening at all.
OOXML is open format...
So what? I'll find with ease a file which won't open exactly the same on linux.
The vast majority of people using a computer for gaming do not want to run Autocad, ever. Nobody said everyone has to use one or the other. Choice is not a bad thing.
The vast majority of people using a computer for gaming do not want to run Autocad, ever. Nobody said everyone has to use one or the other. Choice is not a bad thing.
I would say that vast majority of people using Linux do not want to run games, ever. :-P
The vast majority of people using a computer for gaming do not want to run Autocad, ever. Nobody said everyone has to use one or the other. Choice is not a bad thing.
I would say that vast majority of people using Linux do not want to run games, ever. :-P
A vicious circle really, as if more games were supported, there'd be more incentive to. I have both Windows 10 and Linux running, but since few MMOs are available natively for Linux, I stick to Windows for gaming. I have a small box I run Linux on 100% of the time to watch videos (via Kodi) that's plugged into my TV, it works perfectly and there's no Windows licence cost. If I didn't have a separate high spec machine I'd probably install some games on it too.
The steam machines are just bad imo. I can build a lot better for cheaper. Install something like Manjaro and just d/l steam for linux. I really want linux to surpass windows in gaming but I am also a realist and that will not happen anytime soon as long as people take the easy way out and use Windows.
PCs are just bad imo. I can build a lot better for cheaper. See what I did there?
A "steam machine" will simply be a computer that ........... runs Steam OS.
Last time i checked, SteamOS isnt even available for release. When it releases for consumer use, and it performs that much worse. There will be a story. Until then this is just ridiculous.
BTW, just for reference, i have no intention of using SteamOS, so, im not some fanboy, etc. Im perfectly happy with windows.
So you you can open the file under linux or any other platform just fine...
It does not mean it will work the same. I had cases when Libre Office for example in docx failed to open properly and ruined formatting. Next time It worked fine though.
The vast majority of people using a computer for gaming do not want to run Autocad, ever. Nobody said everyone has to use one or the other. Choice is not a bad thing.
The problem is that vast majority expect to run every application they want. "I know this application! I wanna it!" - "Sorry! This exactly application is missing. However there is an app with similar functionality!" "I wanna this one!".
Customer support - "What version of windows you have?". "Linux". "Try windows!".
Despite having consoles, despite not using PC only for games - I still do not see the increase of Linux users (exception is application development - I prefer linux there but whatever windows is just fine too).
I used to play Vanilla and TBC WoW on Linux. Sure, it was always playable, but never better than Windows. And that was on an optimized minimal Kernel compiled specifically for my PC. For 10 years, Linux gaming has under performed Windows. So now all the sudden Steam figures this out and it's big news??????
You ran WoW under a compatibility layer that translated DirectX to OpenGL on the fly, with drivers with no optimisation at all for it. That it works well at all is impressive. As for the rest, it's already addressed.
I used Code Weavers as a compatability layer, but WoW itself is (or was at that time) configurable to run under OpenGL. So there was no DirectX translation.
Honestly, in my opinion, at least one of the issues was NVIDIA / AMD. They made Linux drivers, but they were not a priority for the manufacturers. They weren't as good as Windows. Unless that has changed, there isn't anything Valve is going to do about it short of getting AMD and NVIDIA to develop better drivers.
Comments
Oh and windows 10 already installs all updates itself, infact windows 8 already did most of that already. And then steam automatically installs updates too when installing games. And in December all nvidia cards will install updates itself too so the whole driver update once a year thing is already void and incorrect. And ati is changing their drivers too soon.
So this whole dream to have a linux alternative with no direct x that's been in the works for i don't know decades with a market of way under 1 % seems very unlikely to ever happen unless were talking about casual games for the phone or some nonsense. Windows already has like 99 % of all pc gaming market. But companies are too lazy to update old games or software to even keep up with new windows operating system when windows is the most market supported operating system. And you really think linux below 1% even has a chance wow. Atleast windows phone can atleast say their users are already on their ecosystem on their pc's they use everyday and that they can develop an app for the pc and phone at the same time without much extra effort for a huge chance at more userbase.
They went out of their way to give it a very weak CPU: a 3.0 GHz dual core. That might have turned it into a CPU bottleneck that would have been fine on a faster CPU.
There's also a question of whether the code was comparably optimized. If you have one person write code for Windows and another person write code for Linux and one runs twice as fast as the other, that doesn't mean that one OS is twice as fast as the other. It more likely means that one person optimized code better than the other.
BTW, just for reference, i have no intention of using SteamOS, so, im not some fanboy, etc. Im perfectly happy with windows.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Also, https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/ars-technica-benchmarks-show-windows-10-beating-steamos-performance.6217
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Host code is a different story. There, I understand less of what's going on, but if Vulkan and DirectX 12 make the host code overhead matter a lot less, that could fix the problem.
And all that aside, the game is a port to OpenGL. It's very unlikely to have the same polish as the DirectX version that was originally sold.
If you look at Valve's games, they found that they had better performance with their engine under OpenGL + Linux than DirectX + Windows because they optimised the engine properly for it, compared to the older DX code.
tl;dr it's far more complicated than this click bait graph/headline suggests.
edit: here are a couple of relatively recent benchmarks of Unigine Heaven (which is well written in OpenGL and supported in drivers) on Windows 10 and Linux. I suppose the headline "performance in industry standard benchmark shows no difference at all" doesn't get as many clicks.
And even then I'm pretty happy knowing my old graphics cards will be able to be combined with any gpu for more performance with direct x 12. Linux is probably still far from having features similar to those.
So there is no reason to buy Steam Machine as dedicated system at all. You may expect any software to run on Windows in the end. So the niche of Steam Machine are the same as people who buy multiple consoles. Except you will be able to run any game on that console on PC. (expect jokes about xbox one lol)
For me I have no reason to buy steam machine - I have a pc: for what purpose I need another one? - except a dream of steam machine being less expensive than PC with same configuration. But I don't see that happening at all.
Sorry for my English
I wanna run Autocad. Your ideas?
Sorry for my English
PCs are just bad imo. I can build a lot better for cheaper. See what I did there?
A "steam machine" will simply be a computer that ........... runs Steam OS.
Released Dec 2013 or so...
The problem is that vast majority expect to run every application they want.
"I know this application! I wanna it!" - "Sorry! This exactly application is missing. However there is an app with similar functionality!" "I wanna this one!".
Customer support - "What version of windows you have?". "Linux". "Try windows!".
Despite having consoles, despite not using PC only for games - I still do not see the increase of Linux users (exception is application development - I prefer linux there but whatever windows is just fine too).
Sorry for my English
Honestly, in my opinion, at least one of the issues was NVIDIA / AMD. They made Linux drivers, but they were not a priority for the manufacturers. They weren't as good as Windows. Unless that has changed, there isn't anything Valve is going to do about it short of getting AMD and NVIDIA to develop better drivers.