Providing an outlet for the "Player Killers"

DrDread74

Back in the 2000s I made a Hall of Fame winning persistent world in Nevewinter Nights called "World of Torr". One of the things that people found fascinating was my take on Player Killers and in general the "Vandals" that are in every MMO. I didn't punish players killers or people who pickpocket other players etc. I made them part of the game. If  you committed enough "crimes" such as attacking players or guards NPCs or got CAUGHT (skill checks) stealing by the guards or even other player  you earned demerits and the more demerits the more INFAMOUS you were and would be noticed in town and possibly attacked to get arrested. Spend some time in prison go to a trial and get voted on more punishment by other players if any. Other player can actually get a warrant for y our arrest and attack you in game for big XP. Your demerits decayed over time and were per city. Being a "thief" was a practical thing to do in that game.

However If you were BAD ENOUGH and you essentially spit on the judges at a trial, the game will "Exile" you. You now became a bad guy in the game, all cities are hostile and attack you on sight but some of the evil cities all the sudden are friendly (Ork Camps, the Evil city of Doomsha etc) also, you're game has now become "hardcore" if you die you drop whatever you were carrying and some XP. The guards in those evil towns DO NOT protect you when harassed by other players. Other normal players can kill you on sight for big XP bonuses.

This system worked GREAT. The "problem" players of there games were flocking to mine and actually made the game fun for both sides. The non PKers lost almost nothing for dying to exiles but the exiles were a great source of uber loot and were usually the highest level and the most dangerous players in the game. The exiles could also do evil things like go to the normally hostile Ork camp and recruit a small army to follow them around and they got XP for attacking the good towns with them. Good times for everyone.

More MMOs need to do something like what I did back then. These "vandal" players should be incorporated into the game. After running that server years I've found that these players just need an outlet for their brand of fun without destroying it for others and it worked.

rochrist

You act as though this is some new idea. Variations of that scheme have been tried in many games. A NWN PW might be small enough and intimate enough for that to be a viable course. Mainstream MMOs, not so much. 

Octagon7711

Why did the game stop?

DrDread74

Octagon7711 said:

Why did the game stop?

I had worked on it and had it up for 4 years, Neverwinter Nights 2 came out and 90% of the stuff that was built into my world was not portable because their scripting engine didn't support many of the functions the old one did. Most of the players everywhere moved on to NWN2 . I started to try to recreate it but it was very limited and even less Persistent World Friendly. I put the server up as open source and surprisingly the community of players took it and kept it going plus modified it http://torrcommunity.prophpbb.com/

I moved on, it was fun

DrDread74

rochrist said:

You act as though this is some new idea. Variations of that scheme have been tried in many games. A NWN PW might be small enough and intimate enough for that to be a viable course. Mainstream MMOs, not so much. 

I haven't played all MMO games but I've never seen something like this done at a serious level (as in  not throwing them a bone but incorporating it from the ground up) . Every game out there I play is simply PvP allowed or not allowed or worse, PvP allowed but the "Guards" are demigods that teleport to you and one shot you dead.

Amaranthar

The biggest problem in a mainstream game is that many would use their "exiled" characters to support their other characters.
You don't have looting (of the non-criminal element) so that's a plus.
But they could still control dungeons, ruin events, and generally be a pain in the arse while their friends can be allowed to play the controlled area or event.

I take it your game was all about PvP? See, that's a problem for players who don't want their game all about PvP. You can't do anything in a game like that without having to PvP, if it's got a lot of players in it.

DrDread74

Amaranthar said:

The biggest problem in a mainstream game is that many would use their "exiled" characters to support their other characters.
You don't have looting (of the non-criminal element) so that's a plus.
But they could still control dungeons, ruin events, and generally be a pain in the arse while their friends can be allowed to play the controlled area or event.

I take it your game was all about PvP? See, that's a problem for players who don't want their game all about PvP. You can't do anything in a game like that without having to PvP, if it's got a lot of players in it.

What you're describing didn't happen. You're missing some details.

Exiled players respawned literally on the other side of the map as the big starter town (which wasn't really a starter town, it was the biggest and most populated by design. Between an exile town and the major normal ones are layers of villages and cities and entire areas that have guards and entire "good" armies. Exiles rarely even made it that deep into good territory, but they can essentially "sneak in"

Once an exile dies, his respawn is way back across the map again, not so for normal players. Its not hard for exiles to get killed in good territory . There are guard patrols on the roads which temporarily spawn in tougher and tougher units if they start to die off. If they are even DETECTED by guards it becomes a hostile situation. It also announces to the entire game "XYZ has been spotted in ABC territory" at which point every character nearby pounces on them.

Exiles can't camp the dungeons in the game, in my game you could "rest" above ground but you cannot rest in side Dungeons. You couldn't heal easily and you couldn't replenish your spells until you left the dungeon. You also need to rest over time or your or your stats fall.  If you tried to camp inside  you would quickly clear the dungeon and eventually run out of spells and everything else. (more games should do this). It's difficult to camp outside the dungeons because you can't stop players from running inside and there are usually good units moving around the roads as mentioned above.

The game was NOT about PvP, I you WANTED PvP you can go out into the wilderness hunting exiles, or if you were an exile, you can get an NPC army (or not) and Attack a town. the others will come

By the way , this all worked in reverse also. The farther away players ventured towards the Doomsha area the more unfriendly it become to them and the advantage switched to the exiles. There was no necessary reason to go out there unless you wanted to earn XP via PvP. Players would role-play to others about not venturing towards the Black Mountains and of the Evil city that lay in the underdark. Many players would never see that place. It was the scariest "dungeon" of them all. Good stuff!