I think I'd have to agree with no Jedi. Before the CU or NGE, I think the holocron grind destroyed the game. All the really great Artisans suddenly disappeared as they all started grinding out proffessions to unlock their force sensitive slot.
We had a few really well known players on our server, known for their high quality weapons or armours, buffs and medpacks. They all just vanished over night. It had a very subtle but noticable effect on the server communtiy.
And they f**ked up Creature Handlers too. Fix them.
Plus the usual, bugs, lag, better missions, more dungeons etc.
That was WoW, that caused artisans to suddenly disappear not Jedi. The original system added a second character slot to the account to level as a Jedi. The original Crafter was uneffected. The was still the time know as the holocron grind. Before the CU/NGE they switched to the original character slot (Main) being the Jedi, and the new character slot being non-force sensitive (To re-level old professions). This is when I became a Jedi. After the Jedi perma deaths, but before the repeal of Jedi Bounty Hunting.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
What would you call a game without Jedi? Galaxies? Surely not Star Wars.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
That kit that allowed your equipment not to decay. Either 1 per account non-tradeable, or take it out of game completely.
The rest I was very happy with. I miss JTL too.
The no decay kit was a veterans reward. It was in the first set I got. And it was one per account non-tradeable. But I had Five accounts so I ended up with Five of them.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I would have bought it if it incorporated XWing vs. Tie Fighter style space combat at launch. They missed the boat big time there
I heard that Lucas wasn't happy with one player on the tail of another just shooting until the one in front blew up. He imagined space combat more like a bullfight or Jousting. where the two combatants approached head on and fired. then circled around to face one another then jousted again.
The Empire shot the enemy from behind. The Rebels shot ties head on, face to face.
I promise this is the last one tonight.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
The no decay kit was a veterans reward. It was in the first set I got. And it was one per account non-tradeable. But I had Five accounts so I ended up with Five of them.
1st it was the Anti Decay Kit.
They were absolutely and completely tradeable and that was a HUGE issue. It allowed people with 100s of millions of credits, like myself, to have mutliple weapons and multiple full sets of armor free from damage.
2nd I would completely agree that adding Jedi extremely damaged the community, in fact it poisoned it. Players began logging in to play the way they had to to be Jedi instead of the way they wanted to. The CU wasn't great (the original Combat changes that were being tested were much better, sadly never followed through on). To say the NGE gutted the playstyle, community and spirit of the game is true but it was merely a finishing blow against a week community infected by the hologrind over a year earlier that was barely hanging on to life.
As to the claims of those who didn't have jedi were the ones who didn't like them... My main account was a Jedi very early on Chilastra. During perma death I achieved 4444 knight (This is as far as you could progress). After the CU I went defense stacked fencer hybrid with some medic and various jedi skills before eventually just going full on defender w/ full 2 handed saber and various other boxes.
..and I hated the inclusion of Jedi. Not as an outsider but as one of the insiders.
That was WoW, that caused artisans to suddenly disappear not Jedi. The original system added a second character slot to the account to level as a Jedi. The original Crafter was uneffected. The was still the time know as the holocron grind. Before the CU/NGE they switched to the original character slot (Main) being the Jedi, and the new character slot being non-force sensitive (To re-level old professions). This is when I became a Jedi. After the Jedi perma deaths, but before the repeal of Jedi Bounty Hunting.
Commenting on what I changed to bold: This is only true if the last ground profession for unlock was a crafting profession. Otherwise people were taking the Armorsmith they were happy with 1 day then respecing the next to something else to chase Jedi. Either because they received a holocron or attempting to guess their way through the professions. Then respecing again after that, then again after that, etc
The burn out was palpable. Die hard players were burning out because they felt they had to have a Jedi to compete. They burned themselves out chasing after it. Sure it is, in part, their own fault because they didn't have to. It is also SOE/LA's fault for creating a system that was completely opposite the spirit of the game and then make it the prettiest dangled carrot you could imagine for a Star Wars fan.
Believe me when I say crafters were lost in large numbers as they suddenly became Rifleman, swordsman, fencers, medics, scouts, squad commanders, etc...all chasing Jedi.
The gameplay systems pre-NG were quite impressive, lot of ways of playing as you wanted. There was no wrong way to play SWG.
Combat was quite bad IMO, I'd rework that
Huh... it just occurred to me that, in all my research of the game, aside from the overt/covert aspect, I actually have no idea how combat worked. O.o
So you never played the game? If so then why this thread?
As @Konfess said, we're developing a cyberpunk MMO called X-Shift. The mechanics were originally inspired by UO (like 15 years ago), but have evolved since then. I personally missed the whole SWG bandwagon, and really wish I had gotten a chance to play it (one of my artists is also constantly raving about it).
But, from what I've gathered, there are significant similarities between SWG and some of the playstyle I've designed for X-Shift. This has lead me to really look into SWG and study what made it great and also where its shortcomings were.
I've heard people talk about how they loved to just prospect for resources and how they were famous for building the best droids, armor, etc. And I really like how they enjoyed the game as a whole rather than just the combat elements (despite how significant the combat was).
To me, it seems like SWG was a fun, playable world rather than a competitive sport or race, and that is exactly what I'm hoping to achieve with our game.
And yes, I've looked into swgemu, and once I can track down a client disk, I'll be checking it out.
While I am not a huge SWG/Koster fan, Raph's commentaries on the game over the last year really showed that it was kicked out of the gate far too early. His tales of its development are a litany of 'things didn't get done right', 'We should've done this', 'Missed opportunities', etc. And that was for the early game that everyone idealizes now. And this pretty much backs up the word I've gotten from the two friends who worked on SWG. Upper management hosed the game by releasing it half baked. Probably to get some bonus money. Sad.
The economic aspect of gathering/crafting seems to be the best developed of their systems, with the most intricacy. But large chunks of the game didn't actually work that well. And by the time they tried to fix it, I'd bet a ton of their code was not understood by anyone still on the payroll.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
All of the mismanagement and poor development decisions that plagued this game from even before launch can be laid at the feet of Smed and his tard circus.
Months early release, lack of value put on bug fixing and patch QC, focusing on putting out more junk before fixing what was there, blatantly lying to the playerbase many times... the list of mistakes made under SOE's poor management of this game can not be overstated. (And forget about the CU/NGE stuff, SOE was mucking it up long before then...)
SOE was the biggest problem with SWG, until the day it closed.
- The buff system. There was nothing worse than seeing a brand new character buffed out his ear so much that he could run around in top level armor. Characters would just waltz through content knowing nothing could hurt them.
- The housing placement system. Nothing like driving out of Theed and hitting the housing line to ruin the mood.
Good
- Covert / Overt PVP system where you could flag for combat either vol or through your actions. Only PVP style I've ever liked.
- The space combat. Dogfighting in space was awesome. I made sure to always be online on Sunday's for the weekly PVP space scenario.
This is bringing back SWG forums posting memories. :-) The craziest thing was when Jedi got ejected from their houses for using force powers indoors. Bounty Hunters complained they never left their homes.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
All I would really do is fix bugs. No expansions until as many bugs as possible had been squashed.
Speaking to what someone said earlier, there were bounty missions to get other players. If you had actually played you would know that.
I would have made becoming a Jedi harder, yet once you were a Jedi you only get one death but would be hard as a raid boss to kill. Those that say no jedi are soulless creatures that have no place in SWG.
And mostly, I would not have listened to anyone on the forums as it was their whining and crying that ultimately killed that game.
I think those who advocate for no jedi where just people that couldn't do what it took to become one. In my experience those same people become BH out of jealousy.
Jedi was really fun to play.
That would be totally ignoring how community involvement decreased post pub 9. With so many chasing the dragon so to speak, many aspects of the game suffered, especially PVP and Vette (high-end content) runs.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
From what I understand, the negative aspect of having Jedi was that people then stopped fulfilling all of the other roles in the game that made it great. No one wanted to be an entertainer when they could be a JEDI! No one wanted to be a Medic when they could be a JEDI!!
From what I understand, the negative aspect of having Jedi was that people then stopped fulfilling all of the other roles in the game that made it great. No one wanted to be an entertainer when they could be a JEDI! No one wanted to be a Medic when they could be a JEDI!!
Am I correct on this?
Somewhat but I'd say it was more combat oriented players who were affected. The pure entertainer players didn't really partake in those aspects of the game (combat oriented roles). Combat oriented players who had entertainers were mostly multi-boxers, so those entertainers were mostly afk bots to begin with anyway.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
From what I understand, the negative aspect of having Jedi was that people then stopped fulfilling all of the other roles in the game that made it great. No one wanted to be an entertainer when they could be a JEDI! No one wanted to be a Medic when they could be a JEDI!!
Am I correct on this?
If that is the case, get rid of the entertainer and medic, and focus on Jedi.
You just said it .. Jedi is much more preferable than medic and entertainer by most players. So why provides classes people want less, rather than the one that everyone likes?
SWG will go down in history as my all time favorite MMO. I created my character on launch day (i was lucky enough to be able to even do that) but couldn't play until the second day as no one could. (At least on Starsider) I was a Pre-pub 9 Jedi and had the best experience in meeting new players in this game. I guess it was still the early days of MMO's but some of those players are now real life friends and many of my gaming community date back to those days.
With that said, it was a buggy mess. There was so much in the game which really needed polish and bug fixing. If their efforts were focused more on polish and bug fixing in both the ground game and Jump to Lightspeed It would have been much better.
The second thing is I would have expanded the space game quite a bit and had planets in which you had to travel through space to reach instead of just teleporting from a terminal.
The third thing would be toning down the power of buffs. It actually became "Buff Wars" as to be competitive you had to log in, get your entertainer buffs, then medical buffs, then get your stims, etc. Buffs were too much of a game changer and should have been only a portion of player power.
From what I understand, the negative aspect of having Jedi was that people then stopped fulfilling all of the other roles in the game that made it great. No one wanted to be an entertainer when they could be a JEDI! No one wanted to be a Medic when they could be a JEDI!!
Am I correct on this?
If that is the case, get rid of the entertainer and medic, and focus on Jedi.
You just said it .. Jedi is much more preferable than medic and entertainer by most players. So why provides classes people want less, rather than the one that everyone likes?
Did you miss the part where that was what killed the game?
This is why game design is a profession that goes beyond "having an idea".
From what I understand, the negative aspect of having Jedi was that people then stopped fulfilling all of the other roles in the game that made it great. No one wanted to be an entertainer when they could be a JEDI! No one wanted to be a Medic when they could be a JEDI!!
Am I correct on this?
If that is the case, get rid of the entertainer and medic, and focus on Jedi.
You just said it .. Jedi is much more preferable than medic and entertainer by most players. So why provides classes people want less, rather than the one that everyone likes?
Did you miss the part where that was what killed the game?
This is why game design is a profession that goes beyond "having an idea".
and yet TOR is way more successful because everyone can be a Jedi. There is certainly no entertainer in TOR, or any other successful Star War games.
I guess SWG wasn't designed that well in the first place .. obviously games focused on Jedi work.
From what I understand, the negative aspect of having Jedi was that people then stopped fulfilling all of the other roles in the game that made it great. No one wanted to be an entertainer when they could be a JEDI! No one wanted to be a Medic when they could be a JEDI!!
Am I correct on this?
If that is the case, get rid of the entertainer and medic, and focus on Jedi.
You just said it .. Jedi is much more preferable than medic and entertainer by most players. So why provides classes people want less, rather than the one that everyone likes?
Did you miss the part where that was what killed the game?
This is why game design is a profession that goes beyond "having an idea".
and yet TOR is way more successful because everyone can be a Jedi. There is certainly no entertainer in TOR, or any other successful Star War games.
I guess SWG wasn't designed that well in the first place .. obviously games focused on Jedi work.
TOR is a completely different game, it's more popular because the overall systems are more accessible. That's it plain and simple, Jedi has naught to do with it really. Most people wanted Jedi in SWG because it was an Alpha class that gave advantages over most (key word: most) other builds.. yet not all..(fencer/pistoleer/doc was very strong aginst Jedi due to state cures, resistance to knockdown/dizzy, high dodge and dot weapons).. certain BH or TKM builds are another example..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Memory serves me that jedi in SWG was permadeath class,and the change i would undo would be the nerf they did to the game that made them infamous .I left the game after that nerf and that is my choice
Memory serves me that jedi in SWG was permadeath class,and the change i would undo would be the nerf they did to the same that made them infamous .I left the game after that nerf and my choice
That's a good point as well. Once the one disadvantage became a non-issue, they exploded in popularity, an alpha class with no real detriment will have that effect.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
That was WoW, that caused artisans to suddenly disappear not Jedi. The original system added a second character slot to the account to level as a Jedi. The original Crafter was uneffected. The was still the time know as the holocron grind. Before the CU/NGE they switched to the original character slot (Main) being the Jedi, and the new character slot being non-force sensitive (To re-level old professions). This is when I became a Jedi. After the Jedi perma deaths, but before the repeal of Jedi Bounty Hunting.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
What would you call a game without Jedi? Galaxies? Surely not Star Wars.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
The no decay kit was a veterans reward. It was in the first set I got. And it was one per account non-tradeable. But I had Five accounts so I ended up with Five of them.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I heard that Lucas wasn't happy with one player on the tail of another just shooting until the one in front blew up. He imagined space combat more like a bullfight or Jousting. where the two combatants approached head on and fired. then circled around to face one another then jousted again.
The Empire shot the enemy from behind. The Rebels shot ties head on, face to face.
I promise this is the last one tonight.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
They were absolutely and completely tradeable and that was a HUGE issue.
It allowed people with 100s of millions of credits, like myself, to have mutliple weapons and multiple full sets of armor free from damage.
2nd I would completely agree that adding Jedi extremely damaged the community, in fact it poisoned it.
Players began logging in to play the way they had to to be Jedi instead of the way they wanted to.
The CU wasn't great (the original Combat changes that were being tested were much better, sadly never followed through on).
To say the NGE gutted the playstyle, community and spirit of the game is true but it was merely a finishing blow against a week community infected by the hologrind over a year earlier that was barely hanging on to life.
As to the claims of those who didn't have jedi were the ones who didn't like them...
My main account was a Jedi very early on Chilastra. During perma death I achieved 4444 knight (This is as far as you could progress). After the CU I went defense stacked fencer hybrid with some medic and various jedi skills before eventually just going full on defender w/ full 2 handed saber and various other boxes.
..and I hated the inclusion of Jedi.
Not as an outsider but as one of the insiders.
This is only true if the last ground profession for unlock was a crafting profession.
Otherwise people were taking the Armorsmith they were happy with 1 day then respecing the next to something else to chase Jedi. Either because they received a holocron or attempting to guess their way through the professions. Then respecing again after that, then again after that, etc
The burn out was palpable. Die hard players were burning out because they felt they had to have a Jedi to compete. They burned themselves out chasing after it. Sure it is, in part, their own fault because they didn't have to. It is also SOE/LA's fault for creating a system that was completely opposite the spirit of the game and then make it the prettiest dangled carrot you could imagine for a Star Wars fan.
Believe me when I say crafters were lost in large numbers as they suddenly became Rifleman, swordsman, fencers, medics, scouts, squad commanders, etc...all chasing Jedi.
But, from what I've gathered, there are significant similarities between SWG and some of the playstyle I've designed for X-Shift. This has lead me to really look into SWG and study what made it great and also where its shortcomings were.
I've heard people talk about how they loved to just prospect for resources and how they were famous for building the best droids, armor, etc. And I really like how they enjoyed the game as a whole rather than just the combat elements (despite how significant the combat was).
To me, it seems like SWG was a fun, playable world rather than a competitive sport or race, and that is exactly what I'm hoping to achieve with our game.
And yes, I've looked into swgemu, and once I can track down a client disk, I'll be checking it out.
While I am not a huge SWG/Koster fan, Raph's commentaries on the game over the last year really showed that it was kicked out of the gate far too early. His tales of its development are a litany of 'things didn't get done right', 'We should've done this', 'Missed opportunities', etc. And that was for the early game that everyone idealizes now. And this pretty much backs up the word I've gotten from the two friends who worked on SWG. Upper management hosed the game by releasing it half baked. Probably to get some bonus money. Sad.
The economic aspect of gathering/crafting seems to be the best developed of their systems, with the most intricacy. But large chunks of the game didn't actually work that well. And by the time they tried to fix it, I'd bet a ton of their code was not understood by anyone still on the payroll.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
All of the mismanagement and poor development decisions that plagued this game from even before launch can be laid at the feet of Smed and his tard circus.
Months early release, lack of value put on bug fixing and patch QC, focusing on putting out more junk before fixing what was there, blatantly lying to the playerbase many times... the list of mistakes made under SOE's poor management of this game can not be overstated. (And forget about the CU/NGE stuff, SOE was mucking it up long before then...)
SOE was the biggest problem with SWG, until the day it closed.
- The housing placement system. Nothing like driving out of Theed and hitting the housing line to ruin the mood.
Good
- Covert / Overt PVP system where you could flag for combat either vol or through your actions. Only PVP style I've ever liked.
- The space combat. Dogfighting in space was awesome. I made sure to always be online on Sunday's for the weekly PVP space scenario.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Am I correct on this?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You just said it .. Jedi is much more preferable than medic and entertainer by most players. So why provides classes people want less, rather than the one that everyone likes?
With that said, it was a buggy mess. There was so much in the game which really needed polish and bug fixing. If their efforts were focused more on polish and bug fixing in both the ground game and Jump to Lightspeed It would have been much better.
The second thing is I would have expanded the space game quite a bit and had planets in which you had to travel through space to reach instead of just teleporting from a terminal.
The third thing would be toning down the power of buffs. It actually became "Buff Wars" as to be competitive you had to log in, get your entertainer buffs, then medical buffs, then get your stims, etc. Buffs were too much of a game changer and should have been only a portion of player power.
Some of the top things that come to mind.
This is why game design is a profession that goes beyond "having an idea".
I guess SWG wasn't designed that well in the first place .. obviously games focused on Jedi work.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson