semi-realistic weather sim in an MMO

l2avism

TL:DR; have a weather sim that affects the game world. Storms that form up and affect gameplay. Clouds you can fly through.

For those of you who haven't read my spam before, I dabble around with my compiler in my off-time and for the last couple years I've worked on a game.
It's a sandbox MMO which requires less content but more planning and is less likely to suceed but thats OK.
Anyways, since the player has the ability to control a dragon and fly around, wouldn't it be cool if the clouds were actual 3d objects you could fly around and through rather than just blobs painted onto the skybox?
Also, large battles could be affected by the weather. Players could use fog for ambushes or use heavy wind to blow seige projectiles off track.

The weather sim would be a very bad approximation of the real world.
In the real world the weather is a result of air masses moving pass and into one another. Clouds are formed when warm moist air rises due to convection from the sun heating the ground. Massive storms happen when a low pressure area sucks in cold air and slams it into warm moist air when the winds swirl around the center (because of corealis effect).
In the simplistic sim, areas that are closer to water will occasionally form storms which will dissipate when they go inland over drier areas.
The wind patterns and therfor the storms will follow tracks around large mountains etc.

Yaevindusk

If you would like to see an example of a weather simulation for research purposes, Black Desert sports it and a weather radar on their world map.  You can see it form and weather affects your characters.  Whether it's rain on the armor, puddles and muddle collecting in your boots and armor, or wear and tear.  In addition to having to seek fire places in the cold snow storms or shade in a heatwave within the desert lest your character gets debuffed.

It doesn't have the ability to fly through the clouds as you've said, so that's a step ahead of them there.  Though you can sail into Hurricanes and monsoons in the ocean while in a boat as they form or head towards you in the weather radar map.  Even go into the eye of such and watch the waves become dangerous.

Wizardry

No ,not that it is a terrible idea but flying around in general to me is just silly,i don't like it.It seems so many games are using this to attract gamer's,i want a real good game not some silly idea.I don't really like riding around on Dragons,i prefer them to be the dark enemy in the lore of games that we fight so no i would not find any enjoyment riding through clouds.It might look cool but i know you just make the clouds semi or non solid so it does little for my excitement of the game.

Weather effects do offer some nice added visuals /realism to a game but imo is not needed.

I prefer to see elemental properties brought on by weather,example hot/sunny affects Fire spells dmg/accy as does it affect Ice or Cold spells.I also prefer to see elemental properties on everything affected by weather such as your armor or weapons and resistances for both players and npc's.

l2avism

Wizardry said:

No ,not that it is a terrible idea but flying around in general to me is just silly,i don't like it.It seems so many games are using this to attract gamer's,i want a real good game not some silly idea.I don't really like riding around on Dragons,i prefer them to be the dark enemy in the lore of games that we fight so no i would not find any enjoyment riding through clouds.It might look cool but i know you just make the clouds semi or non solid so it does little for my excitement of the game.

Weather effects do offer some nice added visuals /realism to a game but imo is not needed.

I prefer to see elemental properties brought on by weather,example hot/sunny affects Fire spells dmg/accy as does it affect Ice or Cold spells.I also prefer to see elemental properties on everything affected by weather such as your armor or weapons and resistances for both players and npc's.

I didn't say riding on a dragon, I said controlling a dragon. You can eat people too.
In my game you are the dark enemy of lore. (though you can chose a lighter color of scales at creation)
Though the point of the game isn't to fly around and do dragon things and burninate (but you can). The world is controlled by dragons who have enslaved human society to acquire wealth for their reptilian overlords.
Dragons being a technologically advanced species with superior intellect have found a way to mind control humans. This means who can swap control from your dragon main to any of your human slaves and use them as disposable character slots in PvP or whatever.

Anyways being a game that allows you to fly around as a dragon, I thought it would be cool to fly though clouds.

Loke666

Realistic weather could be very fun, particularly in a game with seasons where weather could spawn mobs, a springtime rain could mean certain flowers you use in crafting grows and similar.

The weather could even affect combat. Fog would make massive battles harder to control (like Lutzen in 1632, it was total chaos), it could make gunpowder ranged weapons mostly useless, affect the range of bows (a wet bowstring suck) and similar as well but that would only work in certain types of game like a musketeer game for example.

Weather is pretty hard to get right without completelly unbalancing the game, you can't have classes that only works in specific weather but you could make a really fun game if you know what you are doing.

Gaendric

On one hand, more immersive worlds are something I like, on the other hand this is way down on my priority list of wanted features, thus I'd rather have devs spend that effort on more important areas.
Because in the end, every "cool" feature you put in costs some other feature.

Having complex weather patterns is generally not a feature that will pay for itself with hype&marketing value unless you go all in, target a specific niche and design gameplay around the feature and make it central & important. (in which case you could eventually use it as USP and try to hype it up)

nariusseldon

It is about development focus. If you put in such a sim, is it going to make the game much more fun? How does it impact gameplay?

If the whole point is just flying around clouds .. you don't need a full sim to achieve that effect. In addition, flying around interesting objects or terrain ... yes .. but flying above or in clouds are pretty boring (to me).

olepi

I liked Ryzom's weather. There were four distinct seasons, with the foliage being different for each season, snow in the winter, flowers in spring, etc. And the mobs move around based on the weather. In winter, that herd might be over there, while in spring it is over here. And mats are available based on the season, so the best wood nodes might be available in the winter.

On top of that, Ryzom has actual weather, like rain. And a day and night cycle too. So certain mats might only be available in the spring, at night, in the rain.

khanstruct

We're actually developing a weather system for X-Shift. It won't be as complex as "moving warm fronts" and all that. It will be somewhat randomized and based on the natural weather patterns of the area (technically, New York City).

And in this game, it is very important, because the game isn't gear-centric (no uber armor that all the best people wear). Your clothing in X-Shift serves the same purpose it does in real life; it protects you from the elements and shows off your particular style.

So, "warm" clothes extend how long you can stand in a blizzard before getting the "Cold" status effect. Cool clothes protect you from "Exhaustion" when it's particularly hot. Umbrellas guard against the "Soaked" status effect in the rain, etc.

waynejr2

Where is the entertainment value to this?

khanstruct

waynejr2 said:

Where is the entertainment value to this?

Immersion in a dynamic world

Loke666

nariusseldon said:

It is about development focus. If you put in such a sim, is it going to make the game much more fun? How does it impact gameplay?

If the whole point is just flying around clouds .. you don't need a full sim to achieve that effect. In addition, flying around interesting objects or terrain ... yes .. but flying above or in clouds are pretty boring (to me).

Flying in clouds is interesting if you have the type of game where you have dogfights, be that WW1, Crimson skies or Dragonlance. But in a regular MMO with nasic flying mounts it is just a waste of work.

Distopia

khanstruct said:

waynejr2 said:

Where is the entertainment value to this?

Immersion in a dynamic world

Immersion Is important and all, yet aren't there more beneficial systems to overall game-play that also promote immersion? As I feel that's the key factor here, as the more you focus on something the less you're focusing on something else. I think this is where many indies go wrong. They try and add every single little detail they can think of, holding actual forward progress back.

khanstruct

Distopia said:

khanstruct said:

waynejr2 said:

Where is the entertainment value to this?

Immersion in a dynamic world

Immersion Is important and all, yet aren't there more beneficial systems to overall game-play that also promote immersion? As I feel that's the key factor here, as the more you focus on something the less you're focusing on something else. I think this is where many indies go wrong. They try and add every single little detail they can think of, holding actual forward progress back.

In general, I agree. A lot of indies just pick all of their favorite features from various games and try to pack them all into one package. Then you just end up with a half-baked feature creep mess.

I think the fault is in that they don't focus on the core of the game. Pick one sentence, "What is this game about". Then, with each feature, you ask "Does this add or detract from that sentence".

In my case, our game is about immersion in an alternate, cyberpunk world. There are no heroes in X-Shift because the city is the main character; you just happen to live there.

So in my case, things like weather effects, lighting and ambiance are very important. But yeah, in other games, something like this being tacked on just "cuz it's cool" would be silly.

Teala

Mount and Blade Banner Lord has seasons and weather and it effects game play.

waynejr2

khanstruct said:

waynejr2 said:

Where is the entertainment value to this?

Immersion in a dynamic world

Immersion is a choice.

l2avism

waynejr2 said:

khanstruct said:

waynejr2 said:

Where is the entertainment value to this?

Immersion in a dynamic world

Immersion is a choice.

It's not a choice! It's an immersion!

khanstruct

waynejr2 said:

khanstruct said:

waynejr2 said:

Where is the entertainment value to this?

Immersion in a dynamic world

Immersion is a choice.

If it was a choice, then it would be the opposite of immersion. Immersion is losing yourself in world, forgetting for a moment that you're playing a game, and actually feeling legitimate emotion for the setting and characters. If you were to choose that, then you're quite plainly aware of it being an external thing.

Walkyier70

ryzom had some great weather one of the best ive seen in mmo

ragz45

as well as the others mentioned above, gloria victis has not only changing weather, but seasons as well.  At one point you could be truding through snow, and log in a week or two later, and it could be turning spring, with grass popping up where there was blankets of snow just a bit earlier.

Antiquated

A weather sim can (should, does) exist outside the mmo sphere.

But the real effect on gameplay tends to be rather minor. It's fluff.

Take those coders and put their hours on other systems.

Now if your mmo involves covered wagons, survival, and mountain passes; horse of a different color. The fluff becomes rather important.

Key question: In your game, can the elements kill you? No? Don't bother then, at least not until you're a mature game with lots of junior coders to throw at it.

The upshot, I guess, is Full On or don't bother half-assing it.

nariusseldon

Loke666 said:

nariusseldon said:

It is about development focus. If you put in such a sim, is it going to make the game much more fun? How does it impact gameplay?

If the whole point is just flying around clouds .. you don't need a full sim to achieve that effect. In addition, flying around interesting objects or terrain ... yes .. but flying above or in clouds are pretty boring (to me).

Flying in clouds is interesting if you have the type of game where you have dogfights, be that WW1, Crimson skies or Dragonlance. But in a regular MMO with nasic flying mounts it is just a waste of work.

They said "flying", not "dogfighting" ... I am assuming there is nothing else but flying.

nariusseldon

khanstruct said:

waynejr2 said:

Where is the entertainment value to this?

Immersion in a dynamic world

Immersing in some dynamic clouds does not sound entertaining to me. 

Lithuanian

Sounds very nice. An MMO where weather would finally mean something except scenery. Winds, snows, water, storm - whatever happens, influences combat (or even behaviour of mobs).

SavageHorizon

I think the only mmo that came close was Dark&Light even though the rest of the game was a let down. Walking through snow slowed you down, rivers that froze over with different seasons. Clouds you could fly through, sandstorms and so on.

DrDread74

It's a great idea. I suggest not making it a "Simulation" so much as a strategy game element. Realism can often kill an otherwise great mechanic. You should have clouds and fog that you can disappear into. You should have wind, generally in a direction but also certain behaviors alongside mountains. Its a strategy game, you need to make strategy game elements that are plucked from realism.