"Teleportation"

Hrimnir

Ok, so i think its safe to say we're all against the idea of teleportation and quick travel.  However, a recent comment by Brad in these forums suggested they weren't intending to implement any form of quick travel.

I wanted to clarify, my position is that EQ at release had a very good system between the boats between continents that were on timers (i wanna say every 10 or 20 minutes), as well as some classes like Druids and Wizards having teleportation spells, but with limited placed they could teleport, and that cost reaggents that made it something that was not *as* commonplace.

I do hope they have a similar setup with certain classes able to do so as it gives identity to the classes and allows fostering of community by providing services that some people have that others need, etc.

Amsai

They have talked of limited teleportation and class specific teleports. But nothing specific. Thisis just one of the many frustrating things of having no information on classes yet. 

Dullahan

I agree with the idea of reagents being needed for travel spells. In EQ it was OK without, because those spells were pretty mana intensive and it took quite a bit of time to med. While I do hope that this is the case in Pantheon, I can't see a player needing to sit around for 10 minutes to get back to full mana from empty. In which case, reagents will be a great alternative in addition to some downtime.

The reason I think teleportation spells are an OK form of fast travel, is because they both require players to work together and because they were gated behind levels. By the time players were using ports on a daily basis, they had already traversed the world many times over and usually doing group and guild activities at max level. This allows the players to really explore the world before getting that convenience that would otherwise circumvent that content and exploration.

TheJoda

Yep I want to fall off a boat again and swim for hours till I hit land , then get killed by a sea siren. 

Dullahan

TheJoda said:

Yep I want to fall off a boat again and swim for hours till I hit land , then get killed by a sea siren. 

As long as falling off the boat is actually me being clumsy and not the boat pulling away before I load into the zone.

Sinist

Dullahan said:

I agree with the idea of reagents being needed for travel spells. In EQ it was OK without, because those spells were pretty mana intensive and it took quite a bit of time to med. While I do hope that this is the case in Pantheon, I can't see a player needing to sit around for 10 minutes to get back to full mana from empty. In which case, reagents will be a great alternative in addition to some downtime.

I am interested in how they are going to achieve the importance of mana without extended down time. While reagents are a nice, in the end they are simply a currency obstacle which always ends up being a non-issue over time. They are best used as layered supplemental.

The time restriction can't be overpowered by currency devaluation. I think these issues need to be very closely evaluated by the team as we have years of how various systems in MMOs have been trivialized from their original intent.

Personally I don't mind downtime. I think it was integral to the EQ experience and it is directly attached to the idea of difficulty and importance of the mana/hp system. If down time is limited, then you have spell power balance issues to consider and you also run into the problem of people killing more consistently, which means spawn times need to be adjusted (or people are just sitting around for minutes doing nothing) as well as possibly issues with how mob kill time is balanced as well.

Hrimnir

Sinist said:

Dullahan said:

I agree with the idea of reagents being needed for travel spells. In EQ it was OK without, because those spells were pretty mana intensive and it took quite a bit of time to med. While I do hope that this is the case in Pantheon, I can't see a player needing to sit around for 10 minutes to get back to full mana from empty. In which case, reagents will be a great alternative in addition to some downtime.

I am interested in how they are going to achieve the importance of mana without extended down time. While reagents are a nice, in the end they are simply a currency obstacle which always ends up being a non-issue over time. They are best used as layered supplemental.

The time restriction can't be overpowered by currency devaluation. I think these issues need to be very closely evaluated by the team as we have years of how various systems in MMOs have been trivialized from their original intent.

Personally I don't mind downtime. I think it was integral to the EQ experience and it is directly attached to the idea of difficulty and importance of the mana/hp system. If down time is limited, then you have spell power balance issues to consider and you also run into the problem of people killing more consistently, which means spawn times need to be adjusted (or people are just sitting around for minutes doing nothing) as well as possibly issues with how mob kill time is balanced as well.

Im honestly not worried about it being a non issue later on.  The issue is during the first year or two of the game.  Once a healthy portion of the playerbase is near top level, making those reaggents a non issues isnt a huge deal IMO.  You limit the "OP"ness of it by limiting the number of places you can teleport, and still making raids and dungeons require a decent amount of travel even after a teleport.  Teleports should basically be more getting you in the general vicinity. Think flying into dallas ft worth but then having to say drive for an hour to get where you're going.

Sinist

Hrimnir said:

Sinist said:

Dullahan said:

I agree with the idea of reagents being needed for travel spells. In EQ it was OK without, because those spells were pretty mana intensive and it took quite a bit of time to med. While I do hope that this is the case in Pantheon, I can't see a player needing to sit around for 10 minutes to get back to full mana from empty. In which case, reagents will be a great alternative in addition to some downtime.

I am interested in how they are going to achieve the importance of mana without extended down time. While reagents are a nice, in the end they are simply a currency obstacle which always ends up being a non-issue over time. They are best used as layered supplemental.

The time restriction can't be overpowered by currency devaluation. I think these issues need to be very closely evaluated by the team as we have years of how various systems in MMOs have been trivialized from their original intent.

Personally I don't mind downtime. I think it was integral to the EQ experience and it is directly attached to the idea of difficulty and importance of the mana/hp system. If down time is limited, then you have spell power balance issues to consider and you also run into the problem of people killing more consistently, which means spawn times need to be adjusted (or people are just sitting around for minutes doing nothing) as well as possibly issues with how mob kill time is balanced as well.

Im honestly not worried about it being a non issue later on.  The issue is during the first year or two of the game.  Once a healthy portion of the playerbase is near top level, making those reaggents a non issues isnt a huge deal IMO.  You limit the "OP"ness of it by limiting the number of places you can teleport, and still making raids and dungeons require a decent amount of travel even after a teleport.  Teleports should basically be more getting you in the general vicinity. Think flying into dallas ft worth but then having to say drive for an hour to get where you're going.

I am, I want a game that will last, not turn into a joke a couple years later because they weren't concerned about how the systems would be trivialized over time. I have no desire to invest a couple of years into a game only to find it turns to garbage. Been there, done that so many times that such inattention to long term results is certainly a concern that is weighted when even considering playing the game in the first place.

This issue is a slippery slope and while I am no authority, I do have experience in many games with such inattention and it always results in a game to which the quality is merely a memory in the minds of the release players. They have to be concerned about retaining the quality of play and design that people will experience at release, well into the later years, especially if they are looking to have things like the progeny system. Last thing I want to do is decide to retire a character, start over again and find the game has been turned into another mainstream joke fest to appeal to the impatient and inept. I choose to never have that disappointment in a game again.

As I said, it is extremely important for them to look into these design issues very closely to avoid long term results that will make the entire point of making this game now, invalid.

Hrimnir

Sinist said:

Hrimnir said:

Sinist said:

Dullahan said:

I agree with the idea of reagents being needed for travel spells. In EQ it was OK without, because those spells were pretty mana intensive and it took quite a bit of time to med. While I do hope that this is the case in Pantheon, I can't see a player needing to sit around for 10 minutes to get back to full mana from empty. In which case, reagents will be a great alternative in addition to some downtime.

I am interested in how they are going to achieve the importance of mana without extended down time. While reagents are a nice, in the end they are simply a currency obstacle which always ends up being a non-issue over time. They are best used as layered supplemental.

The time restriction can't be overpowered by currency devaluation. I think these issues need to be very closely evaluated by the team as we have years of how various systems in MMOs have been trivialized from their original intent.

Personally I don't mind downtime. I think it was integral to the EQ experience and it is directly attached to the idea of difficulty and importance of the mana/hp system. If down time is limited, then you have spell power balance issues to consider and you also run into the problem of people killing more consistently, which means spawn times need to be adjusted (or people are just sitting around for minutes doing nothing) as well as possibly issues with how mob kill time is balanced as well.

Im honestly not worried about it being a non issue later on.  The issue is during the first year or two of the game.  Once a healthy portion of the playerbase is near top level, making those reaggents a non issues isnt a huge deal IMO.  You limit the "OP"ness of it by limiting the number of places you can teleport, and still making raids and dungeons require a decent amount of travel even after a teleport.  Teleports should basically be more getting you in the general vicinity. Think flying into dallas ft worth but then having to say drive for an hour to get where you're going.

I am, I want a game that will last, not turn into a joke a couple years later because they weren't concerned about how the systems would be trivialized over time. I have no desire to invest a couple of years into a game only to find it turns to garbage. Been there, done that so many times that such inattention to long term results is certainly a concern that is weighted when even considering playing the game in the first place.

This issue is a slippery slope and while I am no authority, I do have experience in many games with such inattention and it always results in a game to which the quality is merely a memory in the minds of the release players. They have to be concerned about retaining the quality of play and design that people will experience at release, well into the later years, especially if they are looking to have things like the progeny system. Last thing I want to do is decide to retire a character, start over again and find the game has been turned into another mainstream joke fest to appeal to the impatient and inept. I choose to never have that disappointment in a game again.

As I said, it is extremely important for them to look into these design issues very closely to avoid long term results that will make the entire point of making this game now, invalid.

I think your pining for a solution that doesn't exist.  If you try to make things that help the game 4 years down the road, you end up screwing it in the short term.  There is always trade offs. Some things are inevitable.

Solar_Prophet

Dullahan said:

TheJoda said:

Yep I want to fall off a boat again and swim for hours till I hit land , then get killed by a sea siren. 

As long as falling off the boat is actually me being clumsy and not the boat pulling away before I load into the zone.

That was one of my first (and only) experiences with EQ. It was also one of the few times I actually got the game to run for more than 10 minutes. I have to admit though, the first time traveling on a boat in a virtual world with others was pretty awesome to experience. Sadly, EQ didn't like my PC very much, even after switching around IRQs at the behest of Verant tech support. Yes, back then you could actually call a tech support number and talk to a person! A real person, and not one from India who could barely speak English either! 

As an aside, I'm so damned happy that not only do I not have to worry about that kind of stuff anymore, but if I do need to change something I don't have to take the damn PC apart and flip the switches manually. That was such a PITA. 

As for quick travel, there really should be some type of it available. Anyone who's played the base version of Dragon's Dogma on console knows just how tiring having to run back and forth between places all the time could be. Exploration is enjoyable, but constant routine trips through familiar territory are not. 

Rallyd

The thing is, those constant routine trips through familiar territory only seem monotonous and without purpose in single player games because there's no reason there to have to do it.

In an MMO, travel being arduous is paramount, just because you want to be everywhere at the same time doesn't mean you should be able to be.  You have to weight that decision of travel heavily, just like in real life.

For example, you heard some phat item might drop in a dungeon over on the other continent, well if you were playing wow you'd just teleport over there and grab it, that's not what Pantheon is going for, to go after that item should be a decision that is not taken lightly, it may result in your death, or at the minimum extreme danger to get there.

TL:DR trivializing travel has many deep repercussions throughout a game that are too numerous to even list without getting into blog levels of text.

Sinist

Hrimnir said:

Sinist said:

Hrimnir said:

Sinist said:

Dullahan said:

I agree with the idea of reagents being needed for travel spells. In EQ it was OK without, because those spells were pretty mana intensive and it took quite a bit of time to med. While I do hope that this is the case in Pantheon, I can't see a player needing to sit around for 10 minutes to get back to full mana from empty. In which case, reagents will be a great alternative in addition to some downtime.

I am interested in how they are going to achieve the importance of mana without extended down time. While reagents are a nice, in the end they are simply a currency obstacle which always ends up being a non-issue over time. They are best used as layered supplemental.

The time restriction can't be overpowered by currency devaluation. I think these issues need to be very closely evaluated by the team as we have years of how various systems in MMOs have been trivialized from their original intent.

Personally I don't mind downtime. I think it was integral to the EQ experience and it is directly attached to the idea of difficulty and importance of the mana/hp system. If down time is limited, then you have spell power balance issues to consider and you also run into the problem of people killing more consistently, which means spawn times need to be adjusted (or people are just sitting around for minutes doing nothing) as well as possibly issues with how mob kill time is balanced as well.

Im honestly not worried about it being a non issue later on.  The issue is during the first year or two of the game.  Once a healthy portion of the playerbase is near top level, making those reaggents a non issues isnt a huge deal IMO.  You limit the "OP"ness of it by limiting the number of places you can teleport, and still making raids and dungeons require a decent amount of travel even after a teleport.  Teleports should basically be more getting you in the general vicinity. Think flying into dallas ft worth but then having to say drive for an hour to get where you're going.

I am, I want a game that will last, not turn into a joke a couple years later because they weren't concerned about how the systems would be trivialized over time. I have no desire to invest a couple of years into a game only to find it turns to garbage. Been there, done that so many times that such inattention to long term results is certainly a concern that is weighted when even considering playing the game in the first place.

This issue is a slippery slope and while I am no authority, I do have experience in many games with such inattention and it always results in a game to which the quality is merely a memory in the minds of the release players. They have to be concerned about retaining the quality of play and design that people will experience at release, well into the later years, especially if they are looking to have things like the progeny system. Last thing I want to do is decide to retire a character, start over again and find the game has been turned into another mainstream joke fest to appeal to the impatient and inept. I choose to never have that disappointment in a game again.

As I said, it is extremely important for them to look into these design issues very closely to avoid long term results that will make the entire point of making this game now, invalid.

I think your pining for a solution that doesn't exist.  If you try to make things that help the game 4 years down the road, you end up screwing it in the short term.  There is always trade offs. Some things are inevitable.

I think we should all be concerned about future implementations eventually becoming pointless. It is why so many games out there become "pointless". If the system is going to become invalidated over time, why have the system in the first place?

Do you seriously believe that building a system that stays consistent to its purpose has any effect on the short term game?

For instance, here is a possible solution to my concern of the cost of reagents. You tie the vendor value of a reagent to that of the currency median of the population. So, as currency devalues, the cost of a reagent stays in line with such, always making them in line with their initial design purpose. Would that screw the short term game? How?

Nothing is lost by reasonably considering future aspects of your designs, in fact any developer that doesn't do this has no business being in software development.

Sinist

Solar_Prophet said:

As for quick travel, there really should be some type of it available. Anyone who's played the base version of Dragon's Dogma on console knows just how tiring having to run back and forth between places all the time could be. Exploration is enjoyable, but constant routine trips through familiar territory are not. 

Travel is a game mechanic, an obstacle, not an entertainment gimmick. The fact that someone would tire of running is missing the point in play. That obstacle is what gives meaning to other class abilities that provide solutions or enhancements to travel (ie ports, faster running buffs, etc...). This builds class interdependence and provides another layer of play (for character progression and development), also giving meaning to the size of the world and the difficulty of traversing it.

In my opinion, "convenience" in play is the defining characteristics of mainstream and why those games today are just glorified chat rooms and not actually games. If they are going to allow quick travel to everyone, it defeats the entire point of the systems concerning it (which is why most games have opted to remove most of the class specific forms of spells and abilities that enhance travel).

Dullahan

I know what you're saying Sinist. I agree but the only way to make travel matter much in the long term is to drastically limit the number of zones that you can port to. Eventually the majority of people playing the game will be of the level that teleports are very accessible.

For instance, in retrospect I would have had only 2 places you can port to in Velious. Wakening lands and Great Divide. That gives people of all 3 factions an opportunity to access their home base without going through the other faction cities. Theres just no reason to allow players to go directly to the higher level areas. Honestly running from DN from the portal in WL would take like 10 minutes. Less if you bound in SS.

In kunark, you could have just made it so Dreadlands was the only place you could port to. It also makes it all the more important to get faction quests done so you can get items like the Overthere hammer that procs a port back to town.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Edit: just to add, the only way to teleport to any specific area in Kunark was to actually go into a dungeon. That was another pretty good way of making it so that you couldn't just instantly teleport anywhere at any time.

So to recap, having less teleport options, having ports you can only use from within a certain location, and putting the actual teleport spells near max level are probably sufficient for preventing ports that are too accessible. If there is an expansion, you can put the new portals at max level so people actually get to run around, explore and enjoy the new content before just teleporting past it.

ste2000

Sinist said:

In my opinion, "convenience" in play is the defining characteristics of mainstream and why those games today are just glorified chat rooms and not actually games.

Totally agree with this sentence.

Simple things like traveling can make the game more social, or less Social.
You can have a portal for every landmark or ask politely a Mage or a Druid for a teleport or a speed buff, maybe leaving a tip (emergent gameplay)
In the first case you don't need to interact with anyone, in the second case you have to talk or barter with actual people.
I prefer the second.

This is only one example of the many changes this "convenience" mentality brought to the MMORPGs.
And in my view most of those changes were negative because in the end they turned MMOs in anti social games.

Octagon7711

Let make it old school hardcore.  Good luck with that.

waynejr2

Hrimnir said:

Ok, so i think its safe to say we're all against the idea of teleportation and quick travel.  However, a recent comment by Brad in these forums suggested they weren't intending to implement any form of quick travel.

I wanted to clarify, my position is that EQ at release had a very good system between the boats between continents that were on timers (i wanna say every 10 or 20 minutes), as well as some classes like Druids and Wizards having teleportation spells, but with limited placed they could teleport, and that cost reaggents that made it something that was not *as* commonplace.

I do hope they have a similar setup with certain classes able to do so as it gives identity to the classes and allows fostering of community by providing services that some people have that others need, etc.

Well said!

Alders

I'm in favor of any and all quick travel to be handled by players in the form of spells from certain classes. Need to get somewhere fast? Better find someone to port you.

Hrimnir

Alders said:

I'm in favor of any and all quick travel to be handled by players in the form of spells from certain classes. Need to get somewhere fast? Better find someone to port you.

I still think there need to be limitations.  You should still have to travel on foot (or horse if there are mounts) for a decent amount of time to get somewhere.  In a large continent with lets say 6 or 7 outdoor zones, there should be at most 3 port areas.  Maybe 2 druids and 1 wizard (or whatever they end up calling the classes), and then maybe on another continent has 2 wizard and 1 druid, or something like that (to even out the butthurt). 

Sinist

EQ did fine in such. There were many ports for druids and wizards to many areas. Some areas weren't always easy and you often had places a wizard may be able to teleport, but not a druid (and the opposite).

The issue was never that a class had the ability to get around easily (and eventually take a group with them), it was giving that ability to everyone. Such power is a part of the class design in terms of utilities, features, and strengths each one provides. Fast travel is a part of that equation.

So, if they follow  a similar model of EQ (pre-Luclin) then it should work out well as we experienced that it did back then.

Sinist

Dullahan said:

I know what you're saying Sinist. I agree but the only way to make travel matter much in the long term is to drastically limit the number of zones that you can port to. Eventually the majority of people playing the game will be of the level that teleports are very accessible.

For instance, in retrospect I would have had only 2 places you can port to in Velious. Wakening lands and Great Divide. That gives people of all 3 factions an opportunity to access their home base without going through the other faction cities. Theres just no reason to allow players to go directly to the higher level areas. Honestly running from DN from the portal in WL would take like 10 minutes. Less if you bound in SS.

In kunark, you could have just made it so Dreadlands was the only place you could port to. It also makes it all the more important to get faction quests done so you can get items like the Overthere hammer that procs a port back to town.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Edit: just to add, the only way to teleport to any specific area in Kunark was to actually go into a dungeon. That was another pretty good way of making it so that you couldn't just instantly teleport anywhere at any time.

So to recap, having less teleport options, having ports you can only use from within a certain location, and putting the actual teleport spells near max level are probably sufficient for preventing ports that are too accessible. If there is an expansion, you can put the new portals at max level so people actually get to run around, explore and enjoy the new content before just teleporting past it.

Well, I am not asking that they make porting harder than golden age EQ, heck... they even had a PoP style porting area in Kunark in Timorus deep, but it was a pain to get to.

I think they should be careful though, and travel should be looked over to insure that it doesn't turn into a gimmick. It should always feel like a major boon to have fast travel as a class.

Using EQ as a means to evaluate what worked and what did not should be a great means to find a good solution in Pantheon.

Aradune

Sinist said:

I am, I want a game that will last, not turn into a joke a couple years later because they weren't concerned about how the systems would be trivialized over time. I have no desire to invest a couple of years into a game only to find it turns to garbage. Been there, done that so many times that such inattention to long term results is certainly a concern that is weighted when even considering playing the game in the first place.

This issue is a slippery slope and while I am no authority, I do have experience in many games with such inattention and it always results in a game to which the quality is merely a memory in the minds of the release players. They have to be concerned about retaining the quality of play and design that people will experience at release, well into the later years, especially if they are looking to have things like the progeny system. Last thing I want to do is decide to retire a character, start over again and find the game has been turned into another mainstream joke fest to appeal to the impatient and inept. I choose to never have that disappointment in a game again.

As I said, it is extremely important for them to look into these design issues very closely to avoid long term results that will make the entire point of making this game now, invalid.

Interesting you would bring this up.  Just today we had a design meeting talking about attributes, what they should start at, and to what degree items could increase them.  We deliberately decided to keep the values LOW because we are indeed thinking, planning, and designing Pantheon to be not only fun at launch, but a home for players for years to come.  

Hrimnir

Aradune said:

Sinist said:

I am, I want a game that will last, not turn into a joke a couple years later because they weren't concerned about how the systems would be trivialized over time. I have no desire to invest a couple of years into a game only to find it turns to garbage. Been there, done that so many times that such inattention to long term results is certainly a concern that is weighted when even considering playing the game in the first place.

This issue is a slippery slope and while I am no authority, I do have experience in many games with such inattention and it always results in a game to which the quality is merely a memory in the minds of the release players. They have to be concerned about retaining the quality of play and design that people will experience at release, well into the later years, especially if they are looking to have things like the progeny system. Last thing I want to do is decide to retire a character, start over again and find the game has been turned into another mainstream joke fest to appeal to the impatient and inept. I choose to never have that disappointment in a game again.

As I said, it is extremely important for them to look into these design issues very closely to avoid long term results that will make the entire point of making this game now, invalid.

Interesting you would bring this up.  Just today we had a design meeting talking about attributes, what they should start at, and to what degree items could increase them.  We deliberately decided to keep the values LOW because we are indeed thinking, planning, and designing Pantheon to be not only fun at launch, but a home for players for years to come.  

Just please don't pull an Age of Conan where the difference between a full suit of gear and naked was about 5%, and no thats not a joke, it really was that bad.

Im definitely all against mudflation, however, stats need to mean something or gear means nothing.

Mudflation is an invetiability, we can slow it, but we can't stop it completely.  Just don't let the pendulum swing too far in the other direction and make gear / stats useless.

Sinist

DMKano said:

Planning to do battle vs the almighty Power Creep...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

Verant did a pretty good job with this when they were in charge. If you look at EQ release, Kunark and Velious, they did a good job of avoiding power creep (there were some issues, but it wasn't across the board), especially when you consider that Kunark was a 10 level increase. While gear in release was slowly replaced by the expansions, there were still key items of situational use and quality even then.

If you have read or listened to the design directions VR has planned, there will be a lot of sideways progression in the game, which is a good tool for reducing power creep. Add in the concept of releasing non-level content progression such as Velious (which was a very well received expansion) and this too helps to reduce the fast term effects of it.

I even hit on some ways to deal with character progression in my "environment based character development" thread which is a good tool for dealing with power creep by attaching progression to a content release specifically and not directly to the character. That is, you could have many specific elements of character power progression that a player works up in a given zone, area, or expansion which is not transferable to another zone, area, or expansion.

I think if they use tools such as this with careful and limited character progression through low value increases in itemization,  sideways development features, and localized progression systems, they can avoid the damages of power creep. That way they can have a natural progression of power without that demoralizing effects of power creep that are common in many mainstream games.

Sinist

Hrimnir said:

Aradune said:

Sinist said:

I am, I want a game that will last, not turn into a joke a couple years later because they weren't concerned about how the systems would be trivialized over time. I have no desire to invest a couple of years into a game only to find it turns to garbage. Been there, done that so many times that such inattention to long term results is certainly a concern that is weighted when even considering playing the game in the first place.

This issue is a slippery slope and while I am no authority, I do have experience in many games with such inattention and it always results in a game to which the quality is merely a memory in the minds of the release players. They have to be concerned about retaining the quality of play and design that people will experience at release, well into the later years, especially if they are looking to have things like the progeny system. Last thing I want to do is decide to retire a character, start over again and find the game has been turned into another mainstream joke fest to appeal to the impatient and inept. I choose to never have that disappointment in a game again.

As I said, it is extremely important for them to look into these design issues very closely to avoid long term results that will make the entire point of making this game now, invalid.

Interesting you would bring this up.  Just today we had a design meeting talking about attributes, what they should start at, and to what degree items could increase them.  We deliberately decided to keep the values LOW because we are indeed thinking, planning, and designing Pantheon to be not only fun at launch, but a home for players for years to come.  

Just please don't pull an Age of Conan where the difference between a full suit of gear and naked was about 5%, and no thats not a joke, it really was that bad.

Im definitely all against mudflation, however, stats need to mean something or gear means nothing.

Mudflation is an invetiability, we can slow it, but we can't stop it completely.  Just don't let the pendulum swing too far in the other direction and make gear / stats useless.

Well, you remember release EQ right? Stats were very small increases, but they meant something for every single point. Part of that was because the control on power creep was constrained by the attribute/skill system so gear never became silly in power increases, but always stayed within an acceptable means of appreciation. If they are able to capture that style of system again and then retain that throughout character progression, I think they will be coming up with a new term to describe the addiction that Pantheon will become.

Dzone

I never played eq but..... i liked the way ffxi teleporting was. Back when I played ffxi I mained a whm for years and i got to teleport people around the world. There were like 6 gate crystals and they were really far from one another.


The way it worked was once you got to one of those you would clock on this shiney crystal and you wrould receive a key item that later alowerd you to have a whm to tele you back to it. Only whm's got those teleportainion spells. Although you could sub a whm as any job, but you could only tele to 3 of um like that. Well that was before they raised the level cap from 75.


Another form of fast travil in ffxi was the outpost warps. In order to use those your home nation would hafta be in control of that region. During that week you would need to talk to an npc in your home city and delever an item from him to the outpost within a time limit. Then you would beable to talk to the npc and teleport to that outpost. There was a limit to that to. If the beastmen controled that region then you couldn't teleport there at all. If a diffrent nation controled it then you would hafta pay money money to use it.

There was also warp 2 which blm's had. They casted that on players to warp them back to there homepoint.

Thats pretty much how fast travel worked in ffxi. I used to love hanging around lower jeuno and teleporting people around for money, and meeting my fellow linkshell members in rulude garderns and getting to send everyone there and then jumping down grabbing a chocobo and ride with um to wherever wer were going. Hoefully i'll get to experience that in this game.