If you can not put in 3-5 hours to get a level 10 toon in an MMO to join PvP, quit MMO's. There is a reason it is level 10 to get into PvP, its called bots. How about learn a little about your class and get some abilities in that 3-5 hours instead of being a deadbeat in RvR. Holy crap, bitching about 3-5 hours of PvE to play PvP in an MMO might be in top 10 of stupidest garbage I've seen on here.
Calling it garbage without a clear reason why it's garbage just comes off as a meaningless insult.
When you're defending a status quo, you need to be sure your position is justified. Yours isn't.
To understand why, imagine if Battlefield required 5 hours of PVE before you could PVP. Or LoL or TF2 or SC2 or Street Fighter or any other major PVP game. Sounds stupid, right? Well it's the exact same thing with MMORPG PVP.
If there was a purpose to it, that'd be one thing. But those games I mentioned don't have issues with bots, so obviously bots aren't the reason (nevermind the fact that botting PVE is much easier than botting PVP.) It's not like that gets any game out of having secure code of course; even the ones with 5 hours of PVE need to be secured against cheaters.
if you don't like MMORPGs and want to pvp right away there is games for that already, but now asking for MMORPG change what they are to cather you wish to pvp without doing anything else don't work and you know it, all devs who did this become or a niche game or closed doors
There are no mmos on the market where you can make a character, pvp, and progress in a 3D format.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you can not put in 3-5 hours to get a level 10 toon in an MMO to join PvP, quit MMO's. There is a reason it is level 10 to get into PvP, its called bots. How about learn a little about your class and get some abilities in that 3-5 hours instead of being a deadbeat in RvR. Holy crap, bitching about 3-5 hours of PvE to play PvP in an MMO might be in top 10 of stupidest garbage I've seen on here.
Calling it garbage without a clear reason why it's garbage just comes off as a meaningless insult.
When you're defending a status quo, you need to be sure your position is justified. Yours isn't.
To understand why, imagine if Battlefield required 5 hours of PVE before you could PVP. Or LoL or TF2 or SC2 or Street Fighter or any other major PVP game. Sounds stupid, right? Well it's the exact same thing with MMORPG PVP.
If there was a purpose to it, that'd be one thing. But those games I mentioned don't have issues with bots, so obviously bots aren't the reason (nevermind the fact that botting PVE is much easier than botting PVP.) It's not like that gets any game out of having secure code of course; even the ones with 5 hours of PVE need to be secured against cheaters.
if you don't like MMORPGs and want to pvp right away there is games for that already, but now asking for MMORPG change what they are to cather you wish to pvp without doing anything else don't work and you know it, all devs who did this become or a niche game or closed doors
There are no mmos on the market where you can make a character, pvp, and progress in a 3D format.
WTB C.O.D. Fantasy style.
Besides EVE?
He said "make a character"
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
If you can not put in 3-5 hours to get a level 10 toon in an MMO to join PvP, quit MMO's. There is a reason it is level 10 to get into PvP, its called bots. How about learn a little about your class and get some abilities in that 3-5 hours instead of being a deadbeat in RvR. Holy crap, bitching about 3-5 hours of PvE to play PvP in an MMO might be in top 10 of stupidest garbage I've seen on here.
Calling it garbage without a clear reason why it's garbage just comes off as a meaningless insult.
When you're defending a status quo, you need to be sure your position is justified. Yours isn't.
To understand why, imagine if Battlefield required 5 hours of PVE before you could PVP. Or LoL or TF2 or SC2 or Street Fighter or any other major PVP game. Sounds stupid, right? Well it's the exact same thing with MMORPG PVP.
If there was a purpose to it, that'd be one thing. But those games I mentioned don't have issues with bots, so obviously bots aren't the reason (nevermind the fact that botting PVE is much easier than botting PVP.) It's not like that gets any game out of having secure code of course; even the ones with 5 hours of PVE need to be secured against cheaters.
if you don't like MMORPGs and want to pvp right away there is games for that already, but now asking for MMORPG change what they are to cather you wish to pvp without doing anything else don't work and you know it, all devs who did this become or a niche game or closed doors
There are no mmos on the market where you can make a character, pvp, and progress in a 3D format.
WTB C.O.D. Fantasy style.
Besides EVE?
He said "make a character"
You can make a character in Eve. You even get to choose a name and a faction for your character.
how exactly do you actually manage a large mmo(RPG) with PvP that does not enforce any PvE? unless you just want small battle arenas like Guild wars that do not influence the game world, but large World scale battles like RvRvR can't be done and balanced if the majority of people can just roll level 1 characters and instantly compete with max level players. that's like just creating a zerg flavor of the month fest. unless you just want to implement a ton of rules that drain the fun and freedom out of the game.
Anyway I actually like when PvE content can give you the edge in PvP why? because that what makes the PvP in MMORPG's appealling compared to mobas
how exactly do you actually manage a large mmo(RPG) with PvP that does not enforce any PvE? unless you just want small battle arenas like Guild wars that do not influence the game world, but large World scale battles like RvRvR can't be done and balanced if the majority of people can just roll level 1 characters and instantly compete with max level players. that's like just creating a zerg flavor of the month fest. unless you just want to implement a ton of rules that drain the fun and freedom out of the game.
Anyway I actually like when PvE content can give you the edge in PvP why? because that what makes the PvP in MMORPG's appealling compared to mobas
So don't do RvRvR. No one says you need all these elements in a game. Planetside 2 is a RvRvR game with pure pvp.
In fact, all the problems you have been pointing out .. pretty much says that pve and pvp should be separated.
If you can not put in 3-5 hours to get a level 10 toon in an MMO to join PvP, quit MMO's. There is a reason it is level 10 to get into PvP, its called bots. How about learn a little about your class and get some abilities in that 3-5 hours instead of being a deadbeat in RvR. Holy crap, bitching about 3-5 hours of PvE to play PvP in an MMO might be in top 10 of stupidest garbage I've seen on here.
Calling it garbage without a clear reason why it's garbage just comes off as a meaningless insult.
When you're defending a status quo, you need to be sure your position is justified. Yours isn't.
To understand why, imagine if Battlefield required 5 hours of PVE before you could PVP. Or LoL or TF2 or SC2 or Street Fighter or any other major PVP game. Sounds stupid, right? Well it's the exact same thing with MMORPG PVP.
If there was a purpose to it, that'd be one thing. But those games I mentioned don't have issues with bots, so obviously bots aren't the reason (nevermind the fact that botting PVE is much easier than botting PVP.) It's not like that gets any game out of having secure code of course; even the ones with 5 hours of PVE need to be secured against cheaters.
if you don't like MMORPGs and want to pvp right away there is games for that already, but now asking for MMORPG change what they are to cather you wish to pvp without doing anything else don't work and you know it, all devs who did this become or a niche game or closed doors
There are no mmos on the market where you can make a character, pvp, and progress in a 3D format.
WTB C.O.D. Fantasy style.
Besides EVE?
He said "make a character"
You can make a character in Eve. You even get to choose a name and a faction for your character.
You can also see your character, dress him or her, lounge around, check out your ships in the hanger etc.
Character creator is actually very detailed by the way, worth playing free trial just to mess with it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I gave up on PvP in MMOs long ago. There are a few that are somewhat fair like War Thunder, World of (Tanks, Ships, Planes), etc. Most are ripe with exploits and cheats though.
Planetside was ok until you figured out that some of the details are still client-side and there's a delay. That leaves you with cheat programs and players who know how to abuse the delay system. Also, RvRvR occurs but no one really wins until 3-4 AM.
There are no mmos on the market where you can make a character, pvp, and progress in a 3D format.
WTB C.O.D. Fantasy style.
yes, there is. Planetside 2.
He said "MMOs".
Yes, so? The game list on this site said planetside 2 is a MMORPG.
I think he meant actual MMO though, not this site's definition.
To be fair PS2 is an mmo, but not an mmorpg in the traditional sense. It's also not set in a fantasy environment.
For example, give me a game with nothing but hot join "battle grounds" ranging in size from 100v100 (possible 3 faction) to 1v1 with all the bells and whistles of the ESO skill system and combat. Nothing but pvp.
Seriously I would love a C.O.D style fantasy game with a robust skill system.
I think he meant actual MMO though, not this site's definition.
People here don't agree on what an "actual" MMO means. So there is no such thing. In fact, if you don't like this site's definition, why do you come here? Why not find a site that use the definition that fits your opinion?
There are no mmos on the market where you can make a character, pvp, and progress in a 3D format.
WTB C.O.D. Fantasy style.
It's been tried in the past several times and each time that game has failed. The last one was probably a game called Fury. Not sure how many remember that one because it didn't last very long but you made a character and it was pure PvP from there on.
The fact that these attempts keep failing should tell you a couple of things. First, they don't work. Second, the devs know they don't work so they don't try making them any more. Third, if they keep failing and the devs know this, it must be because there's not a big enough audience for that type of game, because they couldn't all have been poorly developed or implemented. There have been a few exceptions and hopefully we'll see a few more. I hope Camelot Unchained works out because I'd like to play that one myself. Even so, the devs themselves know it's going to be a very niche game.
The truth is that pure PvP is better served by the short duration, fast paced gameplay of FPS, which has a fairly level playing field and the only thing that needs to be balanced is the guns.
Fantasy settings with classes and melee mixed with magic is much harder to balance and is better suited to co-operative styles of play, something which is clearly shown by the popularity of PvE compared to the less popular PvP. We've had numerous polls on this site over the years regarding preferred play styles and PvE consistanly comes out significantly ahead.
Don't believe me? Go set up a poll and see for yourself.
I think both methods should give equal gear but with different skins. A game that is solely pvp or pve doesn't last and developers need to start making all gameplay styles valid in order to usher in another great era of mmos. I think if a game is going to be full loot ect there should be harsh penalties for killing another player, but the whole world except maybe a few npc cities should be pvp enabled.
PvP is a staple in mmos and adds a whole other layer of meta and activity compared to raids/dungeons, but PvE is nessary for people that want to take a break from PvP or those that aren't that fond of it.
There are games like DF or MO but they are made, coded and ran by what has to be the bottom of the barrel companies so pvpers haven't really had a true AAA pvp game in the last 10 years. I will say pvp games need a good pve system in with it too.
If there was a game that made pvp, pve and crafting all integral, not reliant on each other but complimented each other it would be great. Im a pvper but love pve too, not much into crafting but know its importance in a game. There is no game that does that though, one or the other is always an afterthought and if one "seems" to get more attention than the other then one group gets mad and drifts away. I just hope that one day we all get a well balanced MMO in a persistant world that meets the needs of more than one crowd and doesn't half assed 90% of the game.
. I just hope that one day we all get a well balanced MMO in a persistant world that meets the needs of more than one crowd and doesn't half assed 90% of the game.
Why does a SINGLE game needs to meet the needs of more than one crowd? May be the different crowds can play different games.
Your right, it doesn't and I think there are some good games on the horizon that are focusing on that. But in a persistent world where you have a huge world and had a system where all coexisted really well and worked just as good would be really cool to see.
There are no mmos on the market where you can make a character, pvp, and progress in a 3D format.
WTB C.O.D. Fantasy style.
It's been tried in the past several times and each time that game has failed. The last one was probably a game called Fury. Not sure how many remember that one because it didn't last very long but you made a character and it was pure PvP from there on.
Yeah I think you're wrong. Just looked at a video of Fury. It's nearly 10 years old and it looked terrible.
If you haven't noticed, pve only is all but dead. The genre is changing with the changing gamer demographic. Try getting someone sub 20 to sit down and quest to level cap. It's not going to happen. There is a reason why games like Destiny, C.O.D., LOL and DOTA are doing astronomically better than pve centric mmorpgs. It's the reason why we see games like Crowfall and Camelot Unchained on the horizon. It's the reason why Wildstar and Landmark are on the verge of being shut down.
I have always thought that being forced to PVE is a bad move on behalf of MMO designers. PVP gamers are not motivated by the same things as PVE gamers. Thus PVE becomes boring, pointless, and monotonous.
If the game is centered around leveling then PVP players should be able to level and gain the appropriate gear and gold at the same rate as other players.
When I played WoW, I level my rogue (after level 10) solely by running battlegrounds. I could not make the gold required to keep up on repairs or buy other needed items. I think they are getting slightly better now. I know I had a few PVP mounts before I stopped playing, but PVP players are still treated like second-class gamers by MMO designers.
There are no mmos on the market where you can make a character, pvp, and progress in a 3D format.
WTB C.O.D. Fantasy style.
It's been tried in the past several times and each time that game has failed. The last one was probably a game called Fury. Not sure how many remember that one because it didn't last very long but you made a character and it was pure PvP from there on.
Yeah I think you're wrong. Just looked at a video of Fury. It's nearly 10 years old and it looked terrible.
If you haven't noticed, pve only is all but dead. The genre is changing with the changing gamer demographic. Try getting someone sub 20 to sit down and quest to level cap. It's not going to happen. There is a reason why games like Destiny, C.O.D., LOL and DOTA are doing astronomically better than pve centric mmorpgs. It's the reason why we see games like Crowfall and Camelot Unchained on the horizon. It's the reason why Wildstar and Landmark are on the verge of being shut down.
kets see, DDO, FF11, FF14 most anime games out there, all pure pve, and since ff11, DDO are been up for years a lot more then pure pvp games and still have a lot of loyal players playing its mean you are kinda wrong on your assumption. take note too normally these games have ups and down and old players tned to go back to play then if the news one don't deliver (with is happening a lot lately)
PVP in a PVE game is a problem in itself. Look at how many times devs rework or screw up a class because they are not balanced. You can never have classes that really excel at just one thing as long as there is PVP balancing. Classes in a PVE game shouldn't be balanced. A mage should melt your face off but if hit should die immediately, things like that. Can't do that in a PVP game people start to cry.
Most open world PVP become nothing but gankfest with max level PVP geared players griefing lower level zones because they are bored.
Don't get me wrong I don't mind PVP but not when they change the way the game is played over and over I wish it woud go away. The best example to do it somewhat right is GW2 because they are really separate games but most devs will not be willing to make two independent games.
I have always thought that being forced to PVE is a bad move on behalf of MMO designers. PVP gamers are not motivated by the same things as PVE gamers. Thus PVE becomes boring, pointless, and monotonous.
separate pve and pvp, problem solved. If you don't like pve, you don't have to spend a second doing it.
Always amusing to read these pvp posts complaining about mixing pve. There are pvp centric MMORPGs but for some reason the small vocal minority does not support them and then blames the Devs.
Impossible to make this small vocal minority happy.
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Anyway I actually like when PvE content can give you the edge in PvP why? because that what makes the PvP in MMORPG's appealling compared to mobas
In fact, all the problems you have been pointing out .. pretty much says that pve and pvp should be separated.
Character creator is actually very detailed by the way, worth playing free trial just to mess with it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Planetside was ok until you figured out that some of the details are still client-side and there's a delay. That leaves you with cheat programs and players who know how to abuse the delay system. Also, RvRvR occurs but no one really wins until 3-4 AM.
For example, give me a game with nothing but hot join "battle grounds" ranging in size from 100v100 (possible 3 faction) to 1v1 with all the bells and whistles of the ESO skill system and combat. Nothing but pvp.
Seriously I would love a C.O.D style fantasy game with a robust skill system.
Nothing can be more MMOish then have a maximum of 2000 per continent fighting each other.
The fact that these attempts keep failing should tell you a couple of things. First, they don't work. Second, the devs know they don't work so they don't try making them any more. Third, if they keep failing and the devs know this, it must be because there's not a big enough audience for that type of game, because they couldn't all have been poorly developed or implemented. There have been a few exceptions and hopefully we'll see a few more. I hope Camelot Unchained works out because I'd like to play that one myself. Even so, the devs themselves know it's going to be a very niche game.
The truth is that pure PvP is better served by the short duration, fast paced gameplay of FPS, which has a fairly level playing field and the only thing that needs to be balanced is the guns.
Fantasy settings with classes and melee mixed with magic is much harder to balance and is better suited to co-operative styles of play, something which is clearly shown by the popularity of PvE compared to the less popular PvP. We've had numerous polls on this site over the years regarding preferred play styles and PvE consistanly comes out significantly ahead.
Don't believe me? Go set up a poll and see for yourself.
PvP is a staple in mmos and adds a whole other layer of meta and activity compared to raids/dungeons, but PvE is nessary for people that want to take a break from PvP or those that aren't that fond of it.
MurderHerd
There are games like DF or MO but they are made, coded and ran by what has to be the bottom of the barrel companies so pvpers haven't really had a true AAA pvp game in the last 10 years. I will say pvp games need a good pve system in with it too.
If there was a game that made pvp, pve and crafting all integral, not reliant on each other but complimented each other it would be great. Im a pvper but love pve too, not much into crafting but know its importance in a game. There is no game that does that though, one or the other is always an afterthought and if one "seems" to get more attention than the other then one group gets mad and drifts away. I just hope that one day we all get a well balanced MMO in a persistant world that meets the needs of more than one crowd and doesn't half assed 90% of the game.
If you haven't noticed, pve only is all but dead. The genre is changing with the changing gamer demographic. Try getting someone sub 20 to sit down and quest to level cap. It's not going to happen. There is a reason why games like Destiny, C.O.D., LOL and DOTA are doing astronomically better than pve centric mmorpgs. It's the reason why we see games like Crowfall and Camelot Unchained on the horizon. It's the reason why Wildstar and Landmark are on the verge of being shut down.
I have always thought that being forced to PVE is a bad move on behalf of MMO designers. PVP gamers are not motivated by the same things as PVE gamers. Thus PVE becomes boring, pointless, and monotonous.
If the game is centered around leveling then PVP players should be able to level and gain the appropriate gear and gold at the same rate as other players.
When I played WoW, I level my rogue (after level 10) solely by running battlegrounds. I could not make the gold required to keep up on repairs or buy other needed items. I think they are getting slightly better now. I know I had a few PVP mounts before I stopped playing, but PVP players are still treated like second-class gamers by MMO designers.
kets see, DDO, FF11, FF14 most anime games out there, all pure pve, and since ff11, DDO are been up for years a lot more then pure pvp games and still have a lot of loyal players playing its mean you are kinda wrong on your assumption. take note too normally these games have ups and down and old players tned to go back to play then if the news one don't deliver (with is happening a lot lately)
Most open world PVP become nothing but gankfest with max level PVP geared players griefing lower level zones because they are bored.
Don't get me wrong I don't mind PVP but not when they change the way the game is played over and over I wish it woud go away. The best example to do it somewhat right is GW2 because they are really separate games but most devs will not be willing to make two independent games.
Impossible to make this small vocal minority happy.
MAGA