Need this to be out...

Hrimnir

I'm playing way too much Dota 2 and SC2... Seriously.  I don't WANT to play them, they're just the only thing thats even in the realm of worth playing right now that is multiplayer.

COME ON BRAD.  Get to crackin man.  We're dyin here, dyin...

delete5230

Me Too !...... We already know will finally get a REAL mmo.  But we need it to be well built and full too.

If so, this will blow World of Warcraft away. A WoW killer

Kilsin

We are working as fast as we can, I promise!

We also want this game to be done properly, so while we are working hard we will not rush just for the sake of it, lessons learned and all that...

This will not be a WoW killer either and it is not intended to be a WoW killer, we are realistic about our target audience and think we will do quite well, but the game is not designed to attract the type of numbers WoW has subscribed and that is ok with us

Zarriya

Lets put it this way - you will need patience to play this game so consider this wait "training" 

Slapshot1188

Anyone willing to take a bet that right after release people will be moaning that it should have stayed in development for another 6 months to a year?

delete5230

Kilsin said:

We are working as fast as we can, I promise!

We also want this game to be done properly, so while we are working hard we will not rush just for the sake of it, lessons learned and all that...

This will not be a WoW killer either and it is not intended to be a WoW killer, we are realistic about our target audience and think we will do quite well, but the game is not designed to attract the type of numbers WoW has subscribed and that is ok with us

Sorry about the WoW killer comment, I just get excited like that !

Anyway, take your time as needed

Sinist

Well, if some of you want some games which are along the lines of older cRPGs, designed around the concept of character progression, here are a few suggestions:

This is all I can think of off the top of my head. Opinions will vary on them, but I think all attempt to achieve what has been lost over the years in the industry.  Divinity: Original sin is quite enjoyable and can be played with a friend Co-op. If you loved fallout 1/2, then you will also love Underail. Anyway, enjoy!

Underail ( A fallout spiritual successor.)
http://www.gog.com/game/underrail

Divinity: Original Sin Enhanced Edition (modeled after Ultima 7 in design and function, but with a very unique turn based combat system that flows very well).
http://www.gog.com/game/divinity_original_sin_enhanced_edition

Age of Decadence: (Very strong story and consequence driven with difficult turn based combat systems)
http://www.gog.com/game/the_age_of_decadence  

Serpent in the Staglands: (Retro pixle based graphics, similar to Darklands play and focus)
https://www.gog.com/game/serpent_in_the_staglands

Wasteland 2: (successor to the original Wasteland game from Brian Fargo, turn based)
https://www.gog.com/game/wasteland_2_directors_cut_digital_classic_edition

Pillars of Eternity: (in the vein of Baldurs Gate in style and combat).
https://www.gog.com/game/pillars_of_eternity_hero_edition

Legend of Grimrock 2: (3d Blobber, real time, in the vein of Eye of the Beholder, and similar)
https://www.gog.com/game/legend_of_grimrock_2

Shadowrun Dragonfall (isometric, turn based, good story and enjoyable combat).
https://www.gog.com/game/shadowrun_dragonfall_directors_cut

Lords Of Xulima (isometric exploration, traditional first person party combat. Challenging play)
https://www.gog.com/game/lords_of_xulima_deluxe_edition

Neo Scavanger: (surivial management game with map based exploration and text based encounters)
https://www.gog.com/game/neo_scavenger

Blackguards: (story and combat transition based progression, ie one combat scenario to the next, no open exploration, good solid challenging turn based play, created from the Darkeye universe).
https://www.gog.com/game/blackguards_special_edition

Might and Magic X: (models the original series turn based system, looks good, exploration, challenging combat)
http://store.steampowered.com/app/238750/
 

GeezerGamer

Did I just read someone calling this a "WoW Killer" in this thread?

I don't even know what to say anymore.

I mean, I'd have thought we were way beyond that one by now.

centkin

GeezerGamer said:

Did I just read someone calling this a "WoW Killer" in this thread?

I don't even know what to say anymore.

I mean, I'd have thought we were way beyond that one by now.

Yep, the actual WoW killer turned out to be WoW itself.

I don't know if it is better though to have a void out there though vs having the mainstream behemoth.

Loke666

Don't stress them out, it is far better that they take their time and delivering a solid game instead of a buggy mess.

As for Wow killer, don't be daft. The closest thing we seen to a Wow killer so far is WoW: WoD which done a better work at it then anything else. Pantheon is targetting a different crowd then Wow and will not have any impact on Wows number no matter how great it will be.

Only Blizzard can kill Wow, be that with another MMO or a really crappy Wow expansion.

Tasslehoff35

Slapshot1188 said:

Anyone willing to take a bet that right after release people will be moaning that it should have stayed in development for another 6 months to a year?

They will on this site...this site is all about doom and gloom towards MMORPGS.  Misery loves company thats why so many hang out together here. 

GeezerGamer

You guys speak as though these titles didn't deserve what they got.

Sinist

DMKano said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Anyone willing to take a bet that right after release people will be moaning that it should have stayed in development for another 6 months to a year?

They will on this site...this site is all about doom and gloom towards MMORPGS.  Misery loves company thats why so many hang out together here. 

There is no pleasing a chronic negative nancy. No matter what you give them, they'll poop on it.

Well, for some the issue has been that the industry has only been pushing out slop for mainstream. Pantheon is really one the first games to actually try to get away from the mainstream gimmicks. I would imagine that if we started to see change of focus, it might satisfy some people, much like the PC markets shift to turn based games and concepts away from mainstream has satisfied many players (ie the list I gave above of quality games that don't cater to mainstream design philosophy).

Vorthanion

Sinist said:

DMKano said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Anyone willing to take a bet that right after release people will be moaning that it should have stayed in development for another 6 months to a year?

They will on this site...this site is all about doom and gloom towards MMORPGS.  Misery loves company thats why so many hang out together here. 

There is no pleasing a chronic negative nancy. No matter what you give them, they'll poop on it.

Well, for some the issue has been that the industry has only been pushing out slop for mainstream. Pantheon is really one the first games to actually try to get away from the mainstream gimmicks. I would imagine that if we started to see change of focus, it might satisfy some people, much like the PC markets shift to turn based games and concepts away from mainstream has satisfied many players (ie the list I gave above of quality games that don't cater to mainstream design philosophy).

I moved away from my Atari 2600 and 5200 to the PC, specifically for the turn based RPGs like the Dungeons and Dragons Gold box series, Wizardry, Ultima series, Zork, Might and Magic, Heroes of Might and Magic.....etc.


Unfortunately, over time there has been a dramatic crossing of the lines between consoles and the PC where it comes to game design and I find it utterly disgusting that many of the things that made the PC so distinctive over consoles in regards to game design are now being abandoned whole sale to compete for the console gamer's attention.  The PC isn't dying, the PC gamer is.

Sinist

Vorthanion said:

Sinist said:

DMKano said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Anyone willing to take a bet that right after release people will be moaning that it should have stayed in development for another 6 months to a year?

They will on this site...this site is all about doom and gloom towards MMORPGS.  Misery loves company thats why so many hang out together here. 

There is no pleasing a chronic negative nancy. No matter what you give them, they'll poop on it.

Well, for some the issue has been that the industry has only been pushing out slop for mainstream. Pantheon is really one the first games to actually try to get away from the mainstream gimmicks. I would imagine that if we started to see change of focus, it might satisfy some people, much like the PC markets shift to turn based games and concepts away from mainstream has satisfied many players (ie the list I gave above of quality games that don't cater to mainstream design philosophy).

I moved away from my Atari 2600 and 5200 to the PC, specifically for the turn based RPGs like the Dungeons and Dragons Gold box series, Wizardry, Ultima series, Zork, Might and Magic, Heroes of Might and Magic.....etc.


Unfortunately, over time there has been a dramatic crossing of the lines between consoles and the PC where it comes to game design and I find it utterly disgusting that many of the things that made the PC so distinctive over consoles in regards to game design are now being abandoned whole sale to compete for the console gamer's attention.  The PC isn't dying, the PC gamer is.

That has been the case for the last decade or so, but this is changing. The indie game market and the attention to niche PC games is bringing back the old style focus and attention to game play (as opposed to cheap entertainment gimmicks for the masses). Many companies are going back to being their own publishers (thanks to the ease of online distribution and marketing as well as getting help from some crowd funding or through early access) and those games are being made from a love of gaming, not a get rich quick telemarketer scheme.

Games like Age of Decadence and Underail are made by gamers who want to play a game, not be praised for processing oxygen and they are showing how a single person (or small team) is able to produce quality design and content without the pocket book and mass teams of a AAA studio (Larrian built Divinity: Original Sin with a small team and on a 4-5 million dollar budget without compromising quality or content).

AAA studios are moving off to the next fad market though (chasing mobile games), but there is still some concern as those idiots are trying to push mobile games into the PC market like they did with consoles. I don't think we have to worry too much though, like I said, developers are becoming more independent, able to produce without the big budgets. Just like the music industry, the AAA companies are going to find out that their services are no longer needed and they will eventually fade away.

Hrimnir

Loke666 said:

Don't stress them out, it is far better that they take their time and delivering a solid game instead of a buggy mess.

As for Wow killer, don't be daft. The closest thing we seen to a Wow killer so far is WoW: WoD which done a better work at it then anything else. Pantheon is targetting a different crowd then Wow and will not have any impact on Wows number no matter how great it will be.

Only Blizzard can kill Wow, be that with another MMO or a really crappy Wow expansion.

I thought it was pretty obvious that my original post was tongue in cheek.

Obviously I want them to do the game right, and whatever time it takes, it takes.

But yeah, the whole WoW killer thing someone said was getting a bit overboard.

Tokken

definitely the game I am waiting for, and Star Citizen.

Charlie.Cheswick

This game will do unspeakable things to WoW as EQN watches, wishing it were them.

Mwahaha! Fire & brimstone! 

Dullahan

centkin said:

GeezerGamer said:

Did I just read someone calling this a "WoW Killer" in this thread?

I don't even know what to say anymore.

I mean, I'd have thought we were way beyond that one by now.

Yep, the actual WoW killer turned out to be WoW itself.

I don't know if it is better though to have a void out there though vs having the mainstream behemoth.

I think the real WoW killer was time itself. Sure, they've probably made a few mistakes as of late, but the game is just old. People are also becoming disenchanted with the whole hand holding, follow the golden path type of MMO. From a marketing and business standpoint, I think they've done well with the compromise everything for money approach and wouldn't have likely been more successful by changing any major decision.

Hrimnir

Dullahan said:

centkin said:

GeezerGamer said:

Did I just read someone calling this a "WoW Killer" in this thread?

I don't even know what to say anymore.

I mean, I'd have thought we were way beyond that one by now.

Yep, the actual WoW killer turned out to be WoW itself.

I don't know if it is better though to have a void out there though vs having the mainstream behemoth.

I think the real WoW killer was time itself. Sure, they've probably made a few mistakes as of late, but the game is just old. People are also becoming disenchanted with the whole hand holding, follow the golden path type of MMO. From a marketing and business standpoint, I think they've done well with the compromise everything for money approach and wouldn't have likely been more successful by changing any major decision.

While I agree with the first part of your post, I totally disagree with the last part.  I really don't think people are growing tired of the hand holding, if anything I think its getting more popular as evidenced by how popular these easy mode games are and such.

Dullahan

Hrimnir said:

Dullahan said:

centkin said:

GeezerGamer said:

Did I just read someone calling this a "WoW Killer" in this thread?

I don't even know what to say anymore.

I mean, I'd have thought we were way beyond that one by now.

Yep, the actual WoW killer turned out to be WoW itself.

I don't know if it is better though to have a void out there though vs having the mainstream behemoth.

I think the real WoW killer was time itself. Sure, they've probably made a few mistakes as of late, but the game is just old. People are also becoming disenchanted with the whole hand holding, follow the golden path type of MMO. From a marketing and business standpoint, I think they've done well with the compromise everything for money approach and wouldn't have likely been more successful by changing any major decision.

While I agree with the first part of your post, I totally disagree with the last part.  I really don't think people are growing tired of the hand holding, if anything I think its getting more popular as evidenced by how popular these easy mode games are and such.

But who is having big success with that kind of game? Certainly no MMOs. WoW is still the only one, and if I were to guess what the honest subscriber base is now (non-inflated by pay-per-play) its probably down to little more than a couple million from its once great 12. Right now the fastest growing games are your mobas and other cooperative or strategic pvp titles. Then you have things like Fallout 4, but none of these things represent that super dumbed down mainstream that was so popular over the last decade. If anything, we're seeing a rise in popularity among the games bearing the "hardcore" tag like Dark Souls, Bloodborne and other up and comers all across the spectrum of gaming.

Also to note, I wasn't excusing the complete compromise on everything that was the MMORPG for the sake of money, just stating that they did well from a business standpoint and wouldn't have likely done better without catering to the lowest common denominator.

sh33pish

Been playing a heavily modified Skyrim to fill the void.  Also first time for me playing the expansions Dragonborn and Dawnguard.

Amathe

The games that interest me all seem to be in development. But at least there are good things on the horizon. 

kevjards

Sinist said:

Well, if some of you want some games which are along the lines of older cRPGs, designed around the concept of character progression, here are a few suggestions:

This is all I can think of off the top of my head. Opinions will vary on them, but I think all attempt to achieve what has been lost over the years in the industry.  Divinity: Original sin is quite enjoyable and can be played with a friend Co-op. If you loved fallout 1/2, then you will also love Underail. Anyway, enjoy!

Underail ( A fallout spiritual successor.)
http://www.gog.com/game/underrail

Divinity: Original Sin Enhanced Edition (modeled after Ultima 7 in design and function, but with a very unique turn based combat system that flows very well).
http://www.gog.com/game/divinity_original_sin_enhanced_edition

Age of Decadence: (Very strong story and consequence driven with difficult turn based combat systems)
http://www.gog.com/game/the_age_of_decadence  

Serpent in the Staglands: (Retro pixle based graphics, similar to Darklands play and focus)
https://www.gog.com/game/serpent_in_the_staglands

Wasteland 2: (successor to the original Wasteland game from Brian Fargo, turn based)
https://www.gog.com/game/wasteland_2_directors_cut_digital_classic_edition

Pillars of Eternity: (in the vein of Baldurs Gate in style and combat).
https://www.gog.com/game/pillars_of_eternity_hero_edition

Legend of Grimrock 2: (3d Blobber, real time, in the vein of Eye of the Beholder, and similar)
https://www.gog.com/game/legend_of_grimrock_2

Shadowrun Dragonfall (isometric, turn based, good story and enjoyable combat).
https://www.gog.com/game/shadowrun_dragonfall_directors_cut

Lords Of Xulima (isometric exploration, traditional first person party combat. Challenging play)
https://www.gog.com/game/lords_of_xulima_deluxe_edition

Neo Scavanger: (surivial management game with map based exploration and text based encounters)
https://www.gog.com/game/neo_scavenger

Blackguards: (story and combat transition based progression, ie one combat scenario to the next, no open exploration, good solid challenging turn based play, created from the Darkeye universe).
https://www.gog.com/game/blackguards_special_edition

Might and Magic X: (models the original series turn based system, looks good, exploration, challenging combat)
http://store.steampowered.com/app/238750/
 

One heck of a list there and while waiting for Pantheon I have 90% of these games.The standouts for me are DoS  and Lords of Xulima.Both outstanding games.Yet to start playing Age of Decadence and Serpent games.Oh and Blackguards.Completed both of those games.