craftseeker said: PS. EQ:N has not been in development for six years. There were earlier attempts to produce a succesor to EQ/EQII but work on EQ:N started sometime between SOE Live 2012 and SOE Live 2013. How do I know? Because at SOE Live 2012 they were showing graphics, including concept art that had a very different look and feel. Then at SOE Live 2013 Dave Georgeson told us about EQ:N and how it had replaced an earlier version of the game that they had decided it was not good enough and too much like D&D.
So 3 1/2 to 4 years not six.
I wouldn't go saying that EQN has only been in the works for 3-4 years. It isn't like SOE throw out all their existing work and started from scratch.
This isnt the first time they have "blown up the design" of a game. Based on their past efforts when they "blew up" previous game designs. They litterally pasted new elements onto the existing games.
In all likelyhood they did the same thing here, but have more flexibility to rip out or add new elements as it was not released yet.
Without splitting hairs, this is a game that has been in development for nearly 8 years and gone through multiple revamps. It sounds like it might be going through another as well.
Honestly, I think their best bet is to scrap the idea of a revolutionary new MMO concept that has the mass appeal that WoW had. (I said had) And return to their roots and original fan base that made the game a success in the 1st place. It won't be huge, but I bet it would succeed and be around for a long time.
I'm still halfway convinced that the best way for Daybreak to release anything called EQ:N anytime in the near future is to buy out another game nearing release, rename it EQ:N, build a backstory about how the gods of Norrath blew everything up and incorporate some 'legacy storyline' to make the new game seem remotely like a 'new Norrath'. Add polish. Release. (To me, Pantheon seems the most likely candidate to be purchased and 're-purposed')
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I wouldn't go saying that EQN has only been in the works for 3-4 years. It isn't like SOE throw out all their existing work and started from scratch.
This isnt the first time they have "blown up the design" of a game. Based on their past efforts when they "blew up" previous game designs. They litterally pasted new elements onto the existing games.
In all likelyhood they did the same thing here, but have more flexibility to rip out or add new elements as it was not released yet.
Without splitting hairs, this is a game that has been in development for nearly 8 years and gone through multiple revamps. It sounds like it might be going through another as well.
While we have no idea what they kept or didn't as a place to start "new" versions, what do you think they kept?
I know you've brought this up before, but I'm yet to understand why you focus on it so much.
I don't know of one thing they appear to have "kept" in a useful form.
Art assets, combat, story/history/lore, class design, progression appear to have been completely changed.
If they had actually kept a lot of work, why were they adding mechanics into Landmark in such early forms? You'd think after 4+ years of previous work that it would be much further along.
Highly doubt they are going to literally copy paste the 2010 designs into the game now...
Voxel Farm pretty much erased anything they had built previously as it is new tech. Again, can't copy paste a castle they built previously into the new version.
The pillars or whatever big picture stuff doesn't line up either.
Obviously they could of kept some of the basic concept principles and what not, but brainstorming and white board scribbles aren't something you can paste either. They have most likely done a lot of work that has ended up in the trash can more than once.
I agree that the game as a whole has been in development for a long time, but the current team/design hasn't been there for 8 years.
Regardless, it could take another 8 years and be amazing or garbage, time doesn't really matter beyond people being annoyed with having to wait.
If my team was brought in to build a project basically from scratch where another team had failed to produce, I'd hope I wouldn't be held accountable for their shortcomings, but rather what I do.
With that said, I believe they won't live up to their own hype as it seems pretty obvious that much of their vision was just that and not actually real world tested. As in, they were starting new and not working with previous tech/assets very much.
AI is the center point for EQN in my eyes and it is still hiding in the shadows. Without it, 5-10-20 years of development isn't going to make anything exciting beyond another meh mmo with some sparkly features.
My guess is they now realize that everything that had been hyped up as EQ Next didn't work out as they hoped. (As demonstrated by Landmark)
Now they are looking over what's left of this massive train wreck, scratching their heads because they have no clue how to pull this off now.
That certainly explains the radio silence. But we'll never learn if your reasoning is behind it. Admitting that they don't have a clue would make Daybreak look stupid. I'd expect to hear things like 'the project was too expensive to finish' and 'original revenue projections do not match the changing market place' long before they would admit to a lack of ideas.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
My guess is they now realize that everything that had been hyped up as EQ Next didn't work out as they hoped. (As demonstrated by Landmark)
Now they are looking over what's left of this massive train wreck, scratching their heads because they have no clue how to pull this off now.
They had some good ideas about NPCs, mob behavior and AI... then they decided to try to cash in on Minecraft as well. Big mistake with the voxel and cartoon shit.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
They had some good ideas about NPCs, mob behavior and AI... then they decided to try to cash in on Minecraft as well. Big mistake with the voxel and cartoon shit.
I agree completely.
I think the genre DOES need a new innovative AAA game from a major player with a major name behind it to finally shake up the whole WoW/post-WoW market.
Someone with the $ and the name/record to do something that wasn't "safe" and totally expected.
I don't think, nor ever thought, voxels where that innovative leap.
It sounded like the NPC/mob/AI behavior stuff was on that right track towards that innovation though - I truly dynamic and interactive world where every interaction was remembered and mattered and affected each other... what a dream.
Nobody will know the difference because what are worlds besides some auto generated terrain with trees and fauna? Now that i think about it,the last thing i saw of this game they took some land mass and dotted around some LM assets into what sort of looked like a city.I believe they did it very quickly as well ,like one day and oddly it looked ok,which shows how fast they can whip a game together if they already have some assets. This is why i detest these very shallow rpg's that offer mainly just pvp,that is such little effort it is not even worth playing for me,i can build a world like that myself for free in UDK.
i might even call it a problem for me because i can simply look at a game or map and right away i know how much effort went into it,it was better when i knew nothing,then i could be fooled into enjoying mediocre work.
I have not followed LM closely at all so i really am not fully versed on what this team has in it's portfolio.Like it still takes a lot of work to make all the textures,sounds,music,scripted sequences/quests,player animations,effects etc etc,game development is never too easy.However if players could also make all the assets in LM,then SOE may literally have done VERY little to try and make this game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
My guess is they now realize that everything that had been hyped up as EQ Next didn't work out as they hoped. (As demonstrated by Landmark)
Now they are looking over what's left of this massive train wreck, scratching their heads because they have no clue how to pull this off now.
That certainly explains the radio silence. But we'll never learn if your reasoning is behind it. Admitting that they don't have a clue would make Daybreak look stupid. I'd expect to hear things like 'the project was too expensive to finish' and 'original revenue projections do not match the changing market place' long before they would admit to a lack of ideas.
When I say they don't ahve a clue, it's not because they are incompetent. It's because, they are most likley entrenched on a path that now looks questionable and need to figure out how to dig out.
If that's true, it's not going to be easy, cheap or quick. And is the reason I posted earlier that I'm not so sure that just because this game already has such a significant investment, guarantees continued future investment.
I'm betting if they can't come up with a convincing plan of action soon, I can see the potential for this title to be canceled.
This game has stopped and started and been on many different paths along the way. It's often easier to do something yourself from the beginning than to try to edit someone else's work into what you need.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I would not doubt for one minute that the production has halted again for some fast cash grab. It is super easy to take what assets LM made for them and just have 1 person jot them around to form a semi respectable world but all the other assets take a team and i just don't see that happening ever or they would have most certainly shown something. So imo the team and effort going into this game is like a snails pace,maybe max 10 people when in full swing,likely 1-3 people most fo the time with the rest working on H1z1 maybe 1 person on PS2 i doubt anything happening with that game or perhaps they are making some fast expack for it who knows.
I just know the trends of developers,there is a reason you see meaningless threads started by this site,developers feel the need to make their game relevant in the media.Also we have already seen them hype of LM right away and even EQN was marketed early on so yeah if they had something we would know about it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This game has stopped and started and been on many different paths along the way. It's often easier to do something yourself from the beginning than to try to edit someone else's work into what you need.
Ture, only we have no clue what they are doing. Retooling, going forward with the same or similar plan. As far as editing someone elses work. Devs do that all the time and the dev team working on EQN is still many of the same people who were there from the start. What ever their plan is for EQN we wont know till they start talking. As they told us over a year ago. If the plan changes, we will let you know. Not much to talk about till that happens.
I would not doubt for one minute that the production has halted again for some fast cash grab. It is super easy to take what assets LM made for them and just have 1 person jot them around to form a semi respectable world but all the other assets take a team and i just don't see that happening ever or they would have most certainly shown something. So imo the team and effort going into this game is like a snails pace,maybe max 10 people when in full swing,likely 1-3 people most fo the time with the rest working on H1z1 maybe 1 person on PS2 i doubt anything happening with that game or perhaps they are making some fast expack for it who knows.
I just know the trends of developers,there is a reason you see meaningless threads started by this site,developers feel the need to make their game relevant in the media.Also we have already seen them hype of LM right away and even EQN was marketed early on so yeah if they had something we would know about it.
Maybe they are playing a trick on us meaning Open development and transparency meant closed development. Since it is like they are entertaining guests the husband steps outside to make sure the food is properly cooked and everything is in proper order before setting himself back in the dining room. It's still all apart of transparancy marketing if you think about it...
I would not doubt for one minute that the production has halted again for some fast cash grab. It is super easy to take what assets LM made for them and just have 1 person jot them around to form a semi respectable world but all the other assets take a team and i just don't see that happening ever or they would have most certainly shown something. So imo the team and effort going into this game is like a snails pace,maybe max 10 people when in full swing,likely 1-3 people most fo the time with the rest working on H1z1 maybe 1 person on PS2 i doubt anything happening with that game or perhaps they are making some fast expack for it who knows.
I just know the trends of developers,there is a reason you see meaningless threads started by this site,developers feel the need to make their game relevant in the media.Also we have already seen them hype of LM right away and even EQN was marketed early on so yeah if they had something we would know about it.
So Daybreak consists of ~20 employees?
There are more than this between EQ, EQ2 and H1Z1, if you count code writers, data entry, receptionist, etc. EQN and Landmark "might" still have 15-20 of their own. DCUO has their own. Include a handful of IT guys. Unless they're complete dummies, they still have some people backstage in R&D.
I would not doubt for one minute that the production has halted again for some fast cash grab. It is super easy to take what assets LM made for them and just have 1 person jot them around to form a semi respectable world but all the other assets take a team and i just don't see that happening ever or they would have most certainly shown something. So imo the team and effort going into this game is like a snails pace,maybe max 10 people when in full swing,likely 1-3 people most fo the time with the rest working on H1z1 maybe 1 person on PS2 i doubt anything happening with that game or perhaps they are making some fast expack for it who knows.
I just know the trends of developers,there is a reason you see meaningless threads started by this site,developers feel the need to make their game relevant in the media.Also we have already seen them hype of LM right away and even EQN was marketed early on so yeah if they had something we would know about it.
So Daybreak consists of ~20 employees?
There are more than this between EQ, EQ2 and H1Z1, if you count code writers, data entry, receptionist, etc. EQN and Landmark "might" still have 15-20 of their own. DCUO has their own. Include a handful of IT guys. Unless they're complete dummies, they still have some people backstage in R&D.
Drove by their building the other day, looked like more than 20 cars, but maybe they are going broke and rent spaces to nearby companies?
I would not doubt for one minute that the production has halted again for some fast cash grab. It is super easy to take what assets LM made for them and just have 1 person jot them around to form a semi respectable world but all the other assets take a team and i just don't see that happening ever or they would have most certainly shown something. So imo the team and effort going into this game is like a snails pace,maybe max 10 people when in full swing,likely 1-3 people most fo the time with the rest working on H1z1 maybe 1 person on PS2 i doubt anything happening with that game or perhaps they are making some fast expack for it who knows.
I just know the trends of developers,there is a reason you see meaningless threads started by this site,developers feel the need to make their game relevant in the media.Also we have already seen them hype of LM right away and even EQN was marketed early on so yeah if they had something we would know about it.
So Daybreak consists of ~20 employees?
There are more than this between EQ, EQ2 and H1Z1, if you count code writers, data entry, receptionist, etc. EQN and Landmark "might" still have 15-20 of their own. DCUO has their own. Include a handful of IT guys. Unless they're complete dummies, they still have some people backstage in R&D.
Drove by their building the other day, looked like more than 20 cars, but maybe they are going broke and rent spaces to nearby companies?
This is San Diego or Austin? Austin had about 40 after the layoffs as of last May.
20 cars means nothing,we are talking about actual game working employees,not the secretary or the CEO or the accountants as well they have more than EQN,they have other games that need some kind of attention from employees. 20 competent employees can produce a LOT,like way more than enough to proudly step up and say here look at this ,we have something to show you.
If you watched their weekly round tables,they had NOTHING to show,i saw an episode they had a few new tiles and a door.I was like wow,what is that like 1 guy in a few days work?Ever see Epic Citadel,one guy one month that is more than anything EQN has ever shown us. Even when they showed us some LM player made assets dotted around,that was the LM engine/game with player made assets,i could jot those around myself in a day,so that is not a TEAM working on a game.What i see is VERY little work by VERY few people.
Take a look at H1Z1 .1 year later,again all the work combined up until the recent Hospitol patch was what could be done by literally 1 person.I made this point because H1Z1 is actually pulling in way more money than i am sure they expected.So if a game pulling in money can't get the proper love and team effort it deserves,how can we expect EQN to be receiving a big budget investment?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I simply look at all the facts and take everything into account then draw up conclusions. I think MOST forget the simple facts,they have been right in your face advertising up until the DB take over,so if they had something they would 100% be showing it off. Aside from the WORLD which anyone can generate in minutes,i expect the actual assets and content to be 1/2 of what we saw in EQ or EQ2 releases. There is something else people seem to forget,this is the so called TEAM that has been producing expansion packs "without player made assets"every 12 months,that is a few maps with a lot of detail and assets,so imagine what they could do in 3 years lmao...where is it?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
I wouldn't go saying that EQN has only been in the works for 3-4 years. It isn't like SOE throw out all their existing work and started from scratch.
This isnt the first time they have "blown up the design" of a game. Based on their past efforts when they "blew up" previous game designs. They litterally pasted new elements onto the existing games.
In all likelyhood they did the same thing here, but have more flexibility to rip out or add new elements as it was not released yet.
Without splitting hairs, this is a game that has been in development for nearly 8 years and gone through multiple revamps. It sounds like it might be going through another as well.
@GeezerGamer
I agree. Make EQ3, that's what the fans want, IMO - high fantasy old school classic high quality PvE group focused MMO etc.
I just don't know if DBG can do high quality - to be honest, I've never been impressed with the quality of ANY of the MMOs SOE turned out.
SWG, EQ2, Planetside, Matrix, Vanguard, DCUO, H1Z1...
I mean, they were all buggy messes.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I know you've brought this up before, but I'm yet to understand why you focus on it so much.
I don't know of one thing they appear to have "kept" in a useful form.
Art assets, combat, story/history/lore, class design, progression appear to have been completely changed.
If they had actually kept a lot of work, why were they adding mechanics into Landmark in such early forms? You'd think after 4+ years of previous work that it would be much further along.
Highly doubt they are going to literally copy paste the 2010 designs into the game now...
Voxel Farm pretty much erased anything they had built previously as it is new tech. Again, can't copy paste a castle they built previously into the new version.
The pillars or whatever big picture stuff doesn't line up either.
Obviously they could of kept some of the basic concept principles and what not, but brainstorming and white board scribbles aren't something you can paste either. They have most likely done a lot of work that has ended up in the trash can more than once.
I agree that the game as a whole has been in development for a long time, but the current team/design hasn't been there for 8 years.
Regardless, it could take another 8 years and be amazing or garbage, time doesn't really matter beyond people being annoyed with having to wait.
If my team was brought in to build a project basically from scratch where another team had failed to produce, I'd hope I wouldn't be held accountable for their shortcomings, but rather what I do.
With that said, I believe they won't live up to their own hype as it seems pretty obvious that much of their vision was just that and not actually real world tested. As in, they were starting new and not working with previous tech/assets very much.
AI is the center point for EQN in my eyes and it is still hiding in the shadows. Without it, 5-10-20 years of development isn't going to make anything exciting beyond another meh mmo with some sparkly features.
Now they are looking over what's left of this massive train wreck, scratching their heads because they have no clue how to pull this off now.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I think the genre DOES need a new innovative AAA game from a major player with a major name behind it to finally shake up the whole WoW/post-WoW market.
Someone with the $ and the name/record to do something that wasn't "safe" and totally expected.
I don't think, nor ever thought, voxels where that innovative leap.
It sounded like the NPC/mob/AI behavior stuff was on that right track towards that innovation though - I truly dynamic and interactive world where every interaction was remembered and mattered and affected each other... what a dream.
Now that i think about it,the last thing i saw of this game they took some land mass and dotted around some LM assets into what sort of looked like a city.I believe they did it very quickly as well ,like one day and oddly it looked ok,which shows how fast they can whip a game together if they already have some assets.
This is why i detest these very shallow rpg's that offer mainly just pvp,that is such little effort it is not even worth playing for me,i can build a world like that myself for free in UDK.
i might even call it a problem for me because i can simply look at a game or map and right away i know how much effort went into it,it was better when i knew nothing,then i could be fooled into enjoying mediocre work.
I have not followed LM closely at all so i really am not fully versed on what this team has in it's portfolio.Like it still takes a lot of work to make all the textures,sounds,music,scripted sequences/quests,player animations,effects etc etc,game development is never too easy.However if players could also make all the assets in LM,then SOE may literally have done VERY little to try and make this game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If that's true, it's not going to be easy, cheap or quick. And is the reason I posted earlier that I'm not so sure that just because this game already has such a significant investment, guarantees continued future investment.
I'm betting if they can't come up with a convincing plan of action soon, I can see the potential for this title to be canceled.
This is also Why I said, their best bet right now is to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcBplbfXgSY
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
It is super easy to take what assets LM made for them and just have 1 person jot them around to form a semi respectable world but all the other assets take a team and i just don't see that happening ever or they would have most certainly shown something.
So imo the team and effort going into this game is like a snails pace,maybe max 10 people when in full swing,likely 1-3 people most fo the time with the rest working on H1z1 maybe 1 person on PS2 i doubt anything happening with that game or perhaps they are making some fast expack for it who knows.
I just know the trends of developers,there is a reason you see meaningless threads started by this site,developers feel the need to make their game relevant in the media.Also we have already seen them hype of LM right away and even EQN was marketed early on so yeah if they had something we would know about it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
http://www.mystatesman.com/news/business/at-austins-newly-named-daybreak-studio-big-plans-f/nmPwC/
Same article puts well over 200 in San Diego, but I imagine that, too, has reduced since May.
20 competent employees can produce a LOT,like way more than enough to proudly step up and say here look at this ,we have something to show you.
If you watched their weekly round tables,they had NOTHING to show,i saw an episode they had a few new tiles and a door.I was like wow,what is that like 1 guy in a few days work?Ever see Epic Citadel,one guy one month that is more than anything EQN has ever shown us.
Even when they showed us some LM player made assets dotted around,that was the LM engine/game with player made assets,i could jot those around myself in a day,so that is not a TEAM working on a game.What i see is VERY little work by VERY few people.
Take a look at H1Z1 .1 year later,again all the work combined up until the recent Hospitol patch was what could be done by literally 1 person.I made this point because H1Z1 is actually pulling in way more money than i am sure they expected.So if a game pulling in money can't get the proper love and team effort it deserves,how can we expect EQN to be receiving a big budget investment?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think MOST forget the simple facts,they have been right in your face advertising up until the DB take over,so if they had something they would 100% be showing it off.
Aside from the WORLD which anyone can generate in minutes,i expect the actual assets and content to be 1/2 of what we saw in EQ or EQ2 releases.
There is something else people seem to forget,this is the so called TEAM that has been producing expansion packs "without player made assets"every 12 months,that is a few maps with a lot of detail and assets,so imagine what they could do in 3 years lmao...where is it?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
MAGA