If you don't understand the impact that different regions/publishers have, not sure I can make sense to you. Not all F2P games are created equal and having different folks in control makes a lot of difference most of the time.
Currently, BDO's NA/EU B2P model can work assuming they continue to adapt the KR version for these markets.
The cash shop and details they've announced are not P2W and there isn't RMT.
Daum seems receptive and I see it pretty poor business to go for the short B2P entrance fee and not the long term milk customers for all their love of vanity/convenience that games like GW2 do well from. People are buying the $100 package for a costume.
Not sure what I am dodging, I simply don't pretend to know the future like you and rather go by the facts as is. My opinion =/= fact.
A month from launch they could completely change things, but makes little sense as the NA/EU player bases aren't going to accept it. They have and will continue to voice their issues and I don't see the majority being blind sided by anything that might happen, just a bunch of angry folks leaving with their cash.
While they've said they'd look into gear scaling, who knows what they'll really do. To me it makes a lot more sense to balance upper end gear/levels/content and continue to get people actually playing and paying for pets, costumes, hair style changes than rely on whales picking up the tab after the masses flee.
You seem to be basing your entire view on what you think will happen, which obviously makes sense, but isn't fact. I'll stick to the facts pertaining to NA/EU as is and if things change, I'll go from there. Games aren't that serious and if a month or two down the line I am no longer happy, uninstall, move on.
If the average pre-order is $50, they are already looking at $12 million. While I'm sure it was costly to do translations and adapt for other markets, $12 million is more than some games cost to create in the first place and they are already in KR/JP/RU. This is before people pick it up after launch and all the non-P2W items people will buy initially and overtime.
If that is all Daum wants to make before running everyone off, so be it, but hopefully they actually want to make a long term profit.
You see to focus on the idea there is no P2W, yet you bring no facts to back it up.
You seem to be ignorant of the facts that was stated by the Daum EU, in one of your links:
Cash Shop items will not be possible to sell on the marketplace at launch phase
If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage, there will be control mechanisms that will prevent players from heavily profiting and gaining an advantage by repetitively selling Cash Items on the marketplace
This right here is a declaration of P2W mechanic in the near future.
It's not what " I " think is going to happen, it's what Daum EU planned to happen and told so to everyone that was listening. But apparently you weren't listening.
There is no Eu/NA B2P model - it's just your own illusion. The NA/EU game has the Cash shop that will enable P2W down the road, and poof, your B2P label is gone, because you are now playing on the same old F2P server that is in KR/JP/RU.
Russian Publish clearly stated, that Cash Shop items will NEVER be sold on Auction House? - Do you see the difference? Do you feel like Daum EU just had you with their B2P label? They got you good didn't they?
But guess what? This isn't the end. On RU B2P server - At
- lvl 20 you get a Free Cat.
- lvl 40 Free Costume
- lvl 50 another Free Cat.
- lvl 5 Fishing - free Fishing Costume
- lvl 5 Taming - free armor for the Horse.
It get's better.
For 10 million silver, you can buy +1 Character slot from NPC.
Also for Sliver from NPC, you can buy +50% XP boost for 15 days, a whole lot of simular scrolls.
For Token that drops from high end grind you can exchange them in to:
10 Tokens -to rest 1 combat Skill
100 Tokens to reset all combat skills.
200 Token to change your family name.
Also bunch of stuff with Horse and Transport.
See the difference? Do you see THE TRUTH? This is what a real B2P server looks like.
What you get in NA/EU is just a B2P label, that will come off as soon as they activate selling Cash Shop items on AH.
You see to focus on the idea there is no P2W, yet you bring no facts to back it up.
My "facts" are based on what is happening now, not "what ifs" that could happen, regardless of the probability.
Clearly you have seen the NA/EU cash shop update so you know there is no P2W as of launch.
If you are going to take their words and jump to the conclusion that a month down the line the shop will be full on KR P2W along with RMT, that's fine, but it isn't a fact.
You seem to be ignoring the 2nd comment that said they'd keep it in check, which they don't do on KR.
So is it full blown KR in NA/EU or will they also manage it better? Or do you just pick which fits your opinion?
I think the RU B2P server looks good, maybe Daum will do something similar with a sub or premium access down the line, really anything is possible if it results in more customers/profit for them.
Not sure why you are so worked up about this, especially since The Division is where you'll be heading, but to each their own.
As I and others have said, we'll take it for what it is and if there are changes that no longer fit our needs, oh well. Been online gaming over 20 years, as I'm here typing about BDO, clearly I haven't stuck with the first game I played back in the mid 90s.
Can only hope Daum isn't in the business of running off their player base to make a quick buck. I know all you forum fortunetellers know what is best, but until it has happened, it hasn't.
Jonas, you're just reading "You may be able to sell items in the marketplace after the launch phase" as "We will definitely allow you to sell unimited quantities of items in the marketplace in 1 month after the game is released".
I disagree with your basic premise that the game will falter and the only way for it to make money is to make it p2w.
If you want to make money off whales, all you need is something exclusive in the shop. You don't need it to be empowering. People spend 1,000s on Hearthstone just to get golden cards even though they aren't game-altering. Just read a post about some guy spending 500 bucks on the new B&S lockboxes to try to get an exclusive outfit.
Besides, if the cap is +15 at launch and it's easy to get, how can you p2w even if you could?
Anyway, I keep bringing up GW2 but for good reason. As far as I know, the game is not P2W and it's succeeding here in the west as a B2P game with an un-empowering cash shop and expansions.
P2W is the quickest way to make a buck in Korea because they like that shit there. I know some people say they don't, but I've read the culture is just different and by pimping out your character, you are showing off your success in real life. Here in the west we prefer to work for our character's power in game.
P2W is the quickest way to make a buck in Korea because they like that shit there. I know some people say they don't, but I've read the culture is just different and by pimping out your character, you are showing off your success in real life. Here in the west we prefer to work for our character's power in game.
There is no difference when it comes to people willing to spend money - East, West, South, North - anyone willing to throw money at a game will do so.
Cash shop is the quickest way to make money everywhere - not only Korea.
If P2W cashshops have no drawback, why doesn't WoW have one?
Not 4-5, but 1-2 Month. Once they upgrade the game to +16 to +20 gear enchants, they will release the P2W Dragon. You don't believe it, because you don't realise how much Money P2W will bring them.
The 1-2 Month grace periode is there to suck people in to the game and never let go.
P2W is the quickest way to make a buck in Korea because they like that shit there. I know some people say they don't, but I've read the culture is just different and by pimping out your character, you are showing off your success in real life. Here in the west we prefer to work for our character's power in game.
There is no difference when it comes to people willing to spend money - East, West, South, North - anyone willing to throw money at a game will do so.
Cash shop is the quickest way to make money everywhere - not only Korea.
If P2W cashshops have no drawback, why doesn't WoW have one?
DMKano never saidthey have no drawbacks. He just said it's the QUICKEST way to make money.
P2W cash shops do have draw backs, and companies are well aware of them.
Check out the pros and cons section of that business presentation. The company (who makes millions a month from F2P games) specifically states that the pro is FAST money turn around (which agrees with DMKano's statement that it's the QUICKEST way) but lists several cons, most of them having to do with the quality and lifespan of the game.
In WoW's case, WoW has a large enough subscription-paying player base that it doesn't need the pro of quick money and would also suffer from the con of a shorter life span, hence no significant P2W cash shopping in WoW.
P2W is the quickest way to make a buck in Korea because they like that shit there. I know some people say they don't, but I've read the culture is just different and by pimping out your character, you are showing off your success in real life. Here in the west we prefer to work for our character's power in game.
There is no difference when it comes to people willing to spend money - East, West, South, North - anyone willing to throw money at a game will do so.
Cash shop is the quickest way to make money everywhere - not only Korea.
If P2W cashshops have no drawback, why doesn't WoW have one?
DMKano never saidthey have no drawbacks. He just said it's the QUICKEST way to make money.
P2W cash shops do have draw backs, and companies are well aware of them.
Check out the pros and cons section of that business presentation. The company (who makes millions a month from F2P games) specifically states that the pro is FAST money turn around (which agrees with DMKano's statement that it's the QUICKEST way) but lists several cons, most of them having to do with the quality and lifespan of the game.
In WoW's case, WoW has a large enough subscription-paying player base that it doesn't need the pro of quick money and would also suffer from the con of a shorter life span, hence no significant P2W cash shopping in WoW.
No one else, however, is WoW.
What about GW2. It has no subs but it's not p2w and it's successful.
Bottomline, it comes down to if you believe Daum just wants to make a quick buck or if they want a long-lasting game.
I'm not even sure Daum knows the answer to that at this point. They're keeping their options open, obviously. It will depend on how the box sales go and how sales of non-p2w items from the shop go.
Regardless, I do think there's a culture difference regarding p2w. Just look at Archeage's popularity in Korea vs. here. Korea keeps pumping out f2p/p2w games. The West doesn't.
P2W is the quickest way to make a buck in Korea because they like that shit there. I know some people say they don't, but I've read the culture is just different and by pimping out your character, you are showing off your success in real life. Here in the west we prefer to work for our character's power in game.
You seem to confuse Koreans with Chinese, Koreans are actually not like this at all they hate P2W mechanics as much as we do and are very competitive which is one reason why this game (and ArcheAge as well) tanked there pretty badly. Chinese on the other hand are exactly like you described.
P2W is the quickest way to make a buck in Korea because they like that shit there. I know some people say they don't, but I've read the culture is just different and by pimping out your character, you are showing off your success in real life. Here in the west we prefer to work for our character's power in game.
You seem to confuse Koreans with Chinese, Koreans are actually not like this at all they hate P2W mechanics as much as we do and are very competitive which is one reason why this game tanked there pretty badly. Chinese on the other hand are exactly like you described.
Weird cause according to Kano, Archeage is doing splendidly in Korea, despite it's p2w nature.
Not to mention it seems every single MMO created in Korea has p2w mechanics from the start, compared to our games which usually start as B2P or Sub.
P2W is the quickest way to make a buck in Korea because they like that shit there. I know some people say they don't, but I've read the culture is just different and by pimping out your character, you are showing off your success in real life. Here in the west we prefer to work for our character's power in game.
There is no difference when it comes to people willing to spend money - East, West, South, North - anyone willing to throw money at a game will do so.
Cash shop is the quickest way to make money everywhere - not only Korea.
If P2W cashshops have no drawback, why doesn't WoW have one?
DMKano never saidthey have no drawbacks. He just said it's the QUICKEST way to make money.
P2W cash shops do have draw backs, and companies are well aware of them.
Check out the pros and cons section of that business presentation. The company (who makes millions a month from F2P games) specifically states that the pro is FAST money turn around (which agrees with DMKano's statement that it's the QUICKEST way) but lists several cons, most of them having to do with the quality and lifespan of the game.
In WoW's case, WoW has a large enough subscription-paying player base that it doesn't need the pro of quick money and would also suffer from the con of a shorter life span, hence no significant P2W cash shopping in WoW.
No one else, however, is WoW.
What about GW2. It has no subs but it's not p2w and it's successful.
Bottomline, it comes down to if you believe Daum just wants to make a quick buck or if they want a long-lasting game.
I'm not even sure Daum knows the answer to that at this point. They're keeping their options open, obviously. It will depend on how the box sales go and how sales of non-p2w items from the shop go.
Regardless, I do think there's a culture difference regarding p2w. Just look at Archeage's popularity in Korea vs. here. Korea keeps pumping out f2p/p2w games. The West doesn't.
As was explained earlier. GW2 is not a very good example of how not to do P2W. GW2 has the same business model as most P2W games. You can buy gold, get to level cap, get top end gear, etc etc. GW2 is not P2W because of it's lack of vertical progression because ANET wants it to become big in the E-Sport Arena. That's a reason for not being P2W. GW2 is not P2W because of it's game mechanics, not because of a better business model.
P2W is the quickest way to make a buck in Korea because they like that shit there. I know some people say they don't, but I've read the culture is just different and by pimping out your character, you are showing off your success in real life. Here in the west we prefer to work for our character's power in game.
There is no difference when it comes to people willing to spend money - East, West, South, North - anyone willing to throw money at a game will do so.
Cash shop is the quickest way to make money everywhere - not only Korea.
If P2W cashshops have no drawback, why doesn't WoW have one?
DMKano never saidthey have no drawbacks. He just said it's the QUICKEST way to make money.
P2W cash shops do have draw backs, and companies are well aware of them.
Check out the pros and cons section of that business presentation. The company (who makes millions a month from F2P games) specifically states that the pro is FAST money turn around (which agrees with DMKano's statement that it's the QUICKEST way) but lists several cons, most of them having to do with the quality and lifespan of the game.
In WoW's case, WoW has a large enough subscription-paying player base that it doesn't need the pro of quick money and would also suffer from the con of a shorter life span, hence no significant P2W cash shopping in WoW.
No one else, however, is WoW.
What about GW2. It has no subs but it's not p2w and it's successful.
Bottomline, it comes down to if you believe Daum just wants to make a quick buck or if they want a long-lasting game.
I'm not even sure Daum knows the answer to that at this point. They're keeping their options open, obviously. It will depend on how the box sales go and how sales of non-p2w items from the shop go.
Regardless, I do think there's a culture difference regarding p2w. Just look at Archeage's popularity in Korea vs. here. Korea keeps pumping out f2p/p2w games. The West doesn't.
As was explained earlier. GW2 is not a very good example of how not to do P2W. GW2 has the same business model as most P2W games. You can buy gold, get to level cap, get top end gear, etc etc. GW2 is not P2W because of it's lack of vertical progression because ANET wants it to become big in the E-Sport Arena. That's a reason for not being P2W. GW2 is not P2W because of it's game mechanics, not because of a better business model.
So the only reason your MMO should not have p2w is if you want it to be an e-sport or it's WoW?
You guys remind me of an article I read a few years back, I think on this site, about how an economic advisor looked at League of Legends and said they're not making nearly as much money as they should be making and that they should become aggressively p2w.
Meanwhile the game is making like billions of dollars a year and is doing just fine without p2w.
Would it make more as a p2w game? Almost definitely not.
And it's not e-sport exclusive. If LOL or DOTA2 (or my favorite, SMITE) has taught us anything, it's that you can have an online PVP game without any p2w aspects. People are perfectly happy spending tons of money on cosmetics.
So the only reason your MMO should not have p2w is if you want it to be an e-sport or it's WoW?
You guys remind me of an article I read a few years back, I think on this site, about how an economic advisor looked at League of Legends and said they're not making nearly as much money as they should be making and that they should become aggressively p2w.
Meanwhile the game is making like billions of dollars a year and is doing just fine without p2w.
Would it make more as a p2w game? Almost definitely not.
And it's not e-sport exclusive. If LOL or DOTA2 (or my favorite, SMITE) has taught us anything, it's that you can have an online PVP game without any p2w aspects. People are perfectly happy spending tons of money on cosmetics.
I said GW2 isn't p2w due to game mechanics not because of its business model. E-Sport is only one reason. YOU came back with Only E-sport games shouldn't be P2W. (I didn't say ONLY). SWTOR is another game I don't consider P2W.....Because of game mechanics, not the cash shop. And it's not an E-Sport.
"Cash Shop items will not be possible to sell on the marketplace at launch phase"
This one statement scares me and is the reason I will not be trying the game at launch. I will sit back and wait to see what happens after the "launch phase" before deciding on playing this one. Too many game companies these days make statements like this and then use it later, as a basis for changing some game mechanic or business model to something terrible.
I'm not saying the game will fail or that they will do something like making the cash shop P2W, but that one statement leaves them plenty of room to do it if they decided to after launch. Thats enough for me to hold off and wait to see how it turns out.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
So the only reason your MMO should not have p2w is if you want it to be an e-sport or it's WoW?
You guys remind me of an article I read a few years back, I think on this site, about how an economic advisor looked at League of Legends and said they're not making nearly as much money as they should be making and that they should become aggressively p2w.
Meanwhile the game is making like billions of dollars a year and is doing just fine without p2w.
Would it make more as a p2w game? Almost definitely not.
And it's not e-sport exclusive. If LOL or DOTA2 (or my favorite, SMITE) has taught us anything, it's that you can have an online PVP game without any p2w aspects. People are perfectly happy spending tons of money on cosmetics.
I said GW2 isn't p2w due to game mechanics not because of its business model. E-Sport is only one reason. YOU came back with Only E-sport games shouldn't be P2W. (I didn't say ONLY). SWTOR is another game I don't consider P2W.....Because of game mechanics, not the cash shop. And it's not an E-Sport.
SWTOR has linear progression. So does WoW. They could go p2w tomorrow if they wanted to. GW2 could as well.
The question I'm asking is why aren't they? The answer is not that the game mechanics preclude it from being possible.
So the only reason your MMO should not have p2w is if you want it to be an e-sport or it's WoW?
You guys remind me of an article I read a few years back, I think on this site, about how an economic advisor looked at League of Legends and said they're not making nearly as much money as they should be making and that they should become aggressively p2w.
Meanwhile the game is making like billions of dollars a year and is doing just fine without p2w.
Would it make more as a p2w game? Almost definitely not.
And it's not e-sport exclusive. If LOL or DOTA2 (or my favorite, SMITE) has taught us anything, it's that you can have an online PVP game without any p2w aspects. People are perfectly happy spending tons of money on cosmetics.
I said GW2 isn't p2w due to game mechanics not because of its business model. E-Sport is only one reason. YOU came back with Only E-sport games shouldn't be P2W. (I didn't say ONLY). SWTOR is another game I don't consider P2W.....Because of game mechanics, not the cash shop. And it's not an E-Sport.
SWTOR has linear progression. So does WoW. They could go p2w tomorrow if they wanted to. GW2 could as well.
The question I'm asking is why aren't they? The answer is not that the game mechanics preclude it from being possible.
In both games, I can use real money to: Get to level cap (give or take a day's game play). Get gold / credits Get top end gear But in both games, it's game mechanics (Specifically in how fast it takes to get caught up otherwise) They are not P2W.
Or to put it another way. Technically, both games are P2W, but it doesn't really change much.
Also, back in the early days of WoW, any one of those points would have made the game P2W, hands down, let alone all 3. Yet today, those very same points really aren't.......Why?
So the only reason your MMO should not have p2w is if you want it to be an e-sport or it's WoW?
You guys remind me of an article I read a few years back, I think on this site, about how an economic advisor looked at League of Legends and said they're not making nearly as much money as they should be making and that they should become aggressively p2w.
Meanwhile the game is making like billions of dollars a year and is doing just fine without p2w.
Would it make more as a p2w game? Almost definitely not.
And it's not e-sport exclusive. If LOL or DOTA2 (or my favorite, SMITE) has taught us anything, it's that you can have an online PVP game without any p2w aspects. People are perfectly happy spending tons of money on cosmetics.
I said GW2 isn't p2w due to game mechanics not because of its business model. E-Sport is only one reason. YOU came back with Only E-sport games shouldn't be P2W. (I didn't say ONLY). SWTOR is another game I don't consider P2W.....Because of game mechanics, not the cash shop. And it's not an E-Sport.
SWTOR has linear progression. So does WoW. They could go p2w tomorrow if they wanted to. GW2 could as well.
The question I'm asking is why aren't they? The answer is not that the game mechanics preclude it from being possible.
In both games, I can use real money to: Get to level cap (give or take a day's game play). Get gold / credits Get top end gear But in both games, it's game mechanics (Specifically in how fast it takes to get caught up otherwise) They are not P2W.
Or to put it another way. Technically, both games are P2W, but it doesn't really change much.
Also, back in the early days of WoW, any one of those points would have made the game P2W, hands down, let alone all 3. Yet today, those very same points really aren't.......Why?
The game changed, not the business model.
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what you're saying. I think you're saying SWTOR and WoW couldn't go p2w because top-end gear is pretty easily obtainable in-game.
My point is they could easily change this so the top gear, or enchantments or whatever become hard to get in-game and buyable in the cash shop.
If you're saying BDO is destined for P2W because our gear is all the same and only more poweful through upgrades, I suggest looking at Neverwinter. The gear is relatively easy to get, but the enchantments- which make you infinitely more powerful, are very hard to get and the top enchants are only available pretty much to exploiters or whales.
WoW or SWTOR could easily make a system like that tomorrow, if they wanted to. Why don't they want to?
I suggest it's possible that making a game p2w is not always the most profitable thing to do, and that's why there are so few actual successful p2w MMOs.
Love how people are going off on this being p2w even though details on the cash shop has stated that nothing from the cash shop will be able to be sold on the AH for EU/NA
Sadly this is the direction of most modern day MMOs and it stinks!
Yeah if you were playing mmo's in the late 90's you can really see how the genre has gone to crap. I always said pve content is harder to do than pvp and pvp is so much cheaper. But look what's happened to the genre as far as U.S. game companies go. No one wants to waste money on this market anymore here. Its a flooded market and not worth the time. Its all kick starter now and most of those sound like crap and very niche. Think about it. The two biggest mmo's are Asian game. B&S and BDO. Know one would have believed this 10 years ago.
So the only reason your MMO should not have p2w is if you want it to be an e-sport or it's WoW?
You guys remind me of an article I read a few years back, I think on this site, about how an economic advisor looked at League of Legends and said they're not making nearly as much money as they should be making and that they should become aggressively p2w.
Meanwhile the game is making like billions of dollars a year and is doing just fine without p2w.
Would it make more as a p2w game? Almost definitely not.
And it's not e-sport exclusive. If LOL or DOTA2 (or my favorite, SMITE) has taught us anything, it's that you can have an online PVP game without any p2w aspects. People are perfectly happy spending tons of money on cosmetics.
I said GW2 isn't p2w due to game mechanics not because of its business model. E-Sport is only one reason. YOU came back with Only E-sport games shouldn't be P2W. (I didn't say ONLY). SWTOR is another game I don't consider P2W.....Because of game mechanics, not the cash shop. And it's not an E-Sport.
SWTOR has linear progression. So does WoW. They could go p2w tomorrow if they wanted to. GW2 could as well.
The question I'm asking is why aren't they? The answer is not that the game mechanics preclude it from being possible.
In both games, I can use real money to: Get to level cap (give or take a day's game play). Get gold / credits Get top end gear But in both games, it's game mechanics (Specifically in how fast it takes to get caught up otherwise) They are not P2W.
Or to put it another way. Technically, both games are P2W, but it doesn't really change much.
Also, back in the early days of WoW, any one of those points would have made the game P2W, hands down, let alone all 3. Yet today, those very same points really aren't.......Why?
The game changed, not the business model.
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what you're saying. I think you're saying SWTOR and WoW couldn't go p2w because top-end gear is pretty easily obtainable in-game.
My point is they could easily change this so the top gear, or enchantments or whatever become hard to get in-game and buyable in the cash shop.
If you're saying BDO is destined for P2W because our gear is all the same and only more poweful through upgrades, I suggest looking at Neverwinter. The gear is relatively easy to get, but the enchantments- which make you infinitely more powerful, are very hard to get and the top enchants are only available pretty much to exploiters or whales.
WoW or SWTOR could easily make a system like that tomorrow, if they wanted to. Why don't they want to?
I suggest it's possible that making a game p2w is not always the most profitable thing to do, and that's why there are so few actual successful p2w MMOs.
Why are you trying to twist my words? What does "If you are saying" mean? I said what I said above. Not what you said I said. I said GW2 is a bad example of how not to do P2W. I said that because its business model in other games is P2W. I also happened to mention that SWTOR was another example. but that was because you were twisting what I said. by adding the word "ONLY" to the other post. I didn't say ONLY. it was a single reason (among many) which is why I mentioned SWTOR as another example. And, still you are trying to make that say what you want instead of what I said. If we continue down this path, we are going to have to end up poving and disproving how each and every MMORPG is or isn't P2W and why. All for what? to "prove" BDO may or may not be P2W?
I'll tell you why I think BDO will go P2W. It's nothing more than my personal opinion that the Western demographic is being played for a complex (Good publicity) Bait-N-Switch game.
"I'll tell you why I think BDO will go P2W. It's nothing more than my personal opinion that the Western demographic is being played for a complex (Good publicity) Bait-N-Switch game."
It's possible. However it's also possible that the game will not become the ultimate p2w Apocolypse like Jonas is suggesting.
My main point is that it doesn't have to happen, and I'm not sure if it would even be a good idea to do it. Most MMOs in the West succeed without p2w.
I do expect that we will be able to trade items on the marketplace eventually. I don't however expect that to happen very quickly, and when it does I don't expect it to immediately become a p2w Apocolypse overnight.
Even if it does, I don't necessarily think it will be game breaking. I've read plenty of posts on reddit from people playing the KR version and stating that p2w affects them rarely if ever.
***
Honestly I don't think Daum at this point knows whether or not they're going to go with a p2w system. I suspect they'll look at box sales and in-game shop sales and weigh that against the potential profits (and losses) of going p2w and make a decision from there.
Sadly this is the direction of most modern day MMOs and it stinks!
Yeah if you were playing mmo's in the late 90's you can really see how the genre has gone to crap. I always said pve content is harder to do than pvp and pvp is so much cheaper. But look what's happened to the genre as far as U.S. game companies go. No one wants to waste money on this market anymore here. Its a flooded market and not worth the time. Its all kick starter now and most of those sound like crap and very niche. Think about it. The two biggest mmo's are Asian game. B&S and BDO. Know one would have believed this 10 years ago.
I really don't get this predjudice against Asian video games. I grew up on Nintendo. Asia is quite capable of making great video games.
"I'll tell you why I think BDO will go P2W. It's nothing more than my personal opinion that the Western demographic is being played for a complex (Good publicity) Bait-N-Switch game."
It's possible. However it's also possible that the game will not become the ultimate p2w Apocolypse like Jonas is suggesting.
My main point is that it doesn't have to happen, and I'm not sure if it would even be a good idea to do it. Most MMOs in the West succeed without p2w.
I do expect that we will be able to trade items on the marketplace eventually. I don't however expect that to happen very quickly, and when it does I don't expect it to immediately become a p2w Apocolypse overnight.
Even if it does, I don't necessarily think it will be game breaking. I've read plenty of posts on reddit from people playing the KR version and stating that p2w affects them rarely if ever.
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Honestly I don't think Daum at this point knows whether or not they're going to go with a p2w system. I suspect they'll look at box sales and in-game shop sales and weigh that against the potential profits (and losses) of going p2w and make a decision from there.
I'll tell you what they are going to do. They are going to maintain a profit margin in the best way they can. The difference in our opinions is that I believe that margin to be a lot tighter than you do.
But sure, anything's possible, I can not read the future. Only guess.
"I'll tell you why I think BDO will go P2W. It's nothing more than my personal opinion that the Western demographic is being played for a complex (Good publicity) Bait-N-Switch game."
It's possible. However it's also possible that the game will not become the ultimate p2w Apocolypse like Jonas is suggesting.
My main point is that it doesn't have to happen, and I'm not sure if it would even be a good idea to do it. Most MMOs in the West succeed without p2w.
I do expect that we will be able to trade items on the marketplace eventually. I don't however expect that to happen very quickly, and when it does I don't expect it to immediately become a p2w Apocolypse overnight.
Even if it does, I don't necessarily think it will be game breaking. I've read plenty of posts on reddit from people playing the KR version and stating that p2w affects them rarely if ever.
***
Honestly I don't think Daum at this point knows whether or not they're going to go with a p2w system. I suspect they'll look at box sales and in-game shop sales and weigh that against the potential profits (and losses) of going p2w and make a decision from there.
I'll tell you what they are going to do. They are going to maintain a profit margin in the best way they can. The difference in our opinions is that I believe that margin to be a lot tighter than you do.
But sure, anything's possible, I can not read the future. Only guess.
One thing that you can take to the bank... they're not going to make a decidedly different version of the game for the west just because the players ask for it. They don't have 3 entirely different development teams, just one. You're buying into the Korean game with english added... they're not making a entirely different game for the west.
"I'll tell you why I think BDO will go P2W. It's nothing more than my personal opinion that the Western demographic is being played for a complex (Good publicity) Bait-N-Switch game."
It's possible. However it's also possible that the game will not become the ultimate p2w Apocolypse like Jonas is suggesting.
My main point is that it doesn't have to happen, and I'm not sure if it would even be a good idea to do it. Most MMOs in the West succeed without p2w.
I do expect that we will be able to trade items on the marketplace eventually. I don't however expect that to happen very quickly, and when it does I don't expect it to immediately become a p2w Apocolypse overnight.
Even if it does, I don't necessarily think it will be game breaking. I've read plenty of posts on reddit from people playing the KR version and stating that p2w affects them rarely if ever.
***
Honestly I don't think Daum at this point knows whether or not they're going to go with a p2w system. I suspect they'll look at box sales and in-game shop sales and weigh that against the potential profits (and losses) of going p2w and make a decision from there.
I'll tell you what they are going to do. They are going to maintain a profit margin in the best way they can. The difference in our opinions is that I believe that margin to be a lot tighter than you do.
But sure, anything's possible, I can not read the future. Only guess.
One thing that you can take to the bank... they're not going to make a decidedly different version of the game for the west just because the players ask for it. They don't have 3 entirely different development teams, just one. You're buying into the Korean game with english added... they're not making a entirely different game for the west.
Uhh except that there have been changes made for the western market already. They will release differing versions if it will net them more money. Getting rid of p2w elements, changing around how pvp works, making the game b2p instead of f2p, and other differences already vary greatly in the US/EU vs korea/russia...
Comments
You see to focus on the idea there is no P2W, yet you bring no facts to back it up.
You seem to be ignorant of the facts that was stated by the Daum EU, in one of your links:
This right here is a declaration of P2W mechanic in the near future.
It's not what " I " think is going to happen, it's what Daum EU planned to happen and told so to everyone that was listening. But apparently you weren't listening.
There is no Eu/NA B2P model - it's just your own illusion. The NA/EU game has the Cash shop that will enable P2W down the road, and poof, your B2P label is gone, because you are now playing on the same old F2P server that is in KR/JP/RU.
Want to know what B2P server looks like? Look here https://gamenet.ru/games/blackdesert/post/1FIJ1n/
Russian Publish clearly stated, that Cash Shop items will NEVER be sold on Auction House? - Do you see the difference? Do you feel like Daum EU just had you with their B2P label? They got you good didn't they?
But guess what? This isn't the end. On RU B2P server - At
- lvl 20 you get a Free Cat.
- lvl 40 Free Costume
- lvl 50 another Free Cat.
- lvl 5 Fishing - free Fishing Costume
- lvl 5 Taming - free armor for the Horse.
It get's better.
For 10 million silver, you can buy +1 Character slot from NPC.
Also for Sliver from NPC, you can buy +50% XP boost for 15 days, a whole lot of simular scrolls.
For Token that drops from high end grind you can exchange them in to:
10 Tokens -to rest 1 combat Skill
100 Tokens to reset all combat skills.
200 Token to change your family name.
Also bunch of stuff with Horse and Transport.
See the difference? Do you see THE TRUTH? This is what a real B2P server looks like.
What you get in NA/EU is just a B2P label, that will come off as soon as they activate selling Cash Shop items on AH.
Clearly you have seen the NA/EU cash shop update so you know there is no P2W as of launch.
If you are going to take their words and jump to the conclusion that a month down the line the shop will be full on KR P2W along with RMT, that's fine, but it isn't a fact.
You seem to be ignoring the 2nd comment that said they'd keep it in check, which they don't do on KR.
So is it full blown KR in NA/EU or will they also manage it better? Or do you just pick which fits your opinion?
I think the RU B2P server looks good, maybe Daum will do something similar with a sub or premium access down the line, really anything is possible if it results in more customers/profit for them.
Not sure why you are so worked up about this, especially since The Division is where you'll be heading, but to each their own.
As I and others have said, we'll take it for what it is and if there are changes that no longer fit our needs, oh well. Been online gaming over 20 years, as I'm here typing about BDO, clearly I haven't stuck with the first game I played back in the mid 90s.
Can only hope Daum isn't in the business of running off their player base to make a quick buck. I know all you forum fortunetellers know what is best, but until it has happened, it hasn't.
I disagree with your basic premise that the game will falter and the only way for it to make money is to make it p2w.
If you want to make money off whales, all you need is something exclusive in the shop. You don't need it to be empowering. People spend 1,000s on Hearthstone just to get golden cards even though they aren't game-altering. Just read a post about some guy spending 500 bucks on the new B&S lockboxes to try to get an exclusive outfit.
Besides, if the cap is +15 at launch and it's easy to get, how can you p2w even if you could?
Anyway, I keep bringing up GW2 but for good reason. As far as I know, the game is not P2W and it's succeeding here in the west as a B2P game with an un-empowering cash shop and expansions.
P2W is the quickest way to make a buck in Korea because they like that shit there. I know some people say they don't, but I've read the culture is just different and by pimping out your character, you are showing off your success in real life. Here in the west we prefer to work for our character's power in game.
P2W cash shops do have draw backs, and companies are well aware of them.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016417/-100-000-Whales-An
Check out the pros and cons section of that business presentation. The company (who makes millions a month from F2P games) specifically states that the pro is FAST money turn around (which agrees with DMKano's statement that it's the QUICKEST way) but lists several cons, most of them having to do with the quality and lifespan of the game.
In WoW's case, WoW has a large enough subscription-paying player base that it doesn't need the pro of quick money and would also suffer from the con of a shorter life span, hence no significant P2W cash shopping in WoW.
No one else, however, is WoW.
Bottomline, it comes down to if you believe Daum just wants to make a quick buck or if they want a long-lasting game.
I'm not even sure Daum knows the answer to that at this point. They're keeping their options open, obviously. It will depend on how the box sales go and how sales of non-p2w items from the shop go.
Regardless, I do think there's a culture difference regarding p2w. Just look at Archeage's popularity in Korea vs. here. Korea keeps pumping out f2p/p2w games. The West doesn't.
You seem to confuse Koreans with Chinese, Koreans are actually not like this at all they hate P2W mechanics as much as we do and are very competitive which is one reason why this game (and ArcheAge as well) tanked there pretty badly.
Chinese on the other hand are exactly like you described.
Not to mention it seems every single MMO created in Korea has p2w mechanics from the start, compared to our games which usually start as B2P or Sub.
You guys remind me of an article I read a few years back, I think on this site, about how an economic advisor looked at League of Legends and said they're not making nearly as much money as they should be making and that they should become aggressively p2w.
Meanwhile the game is making like billions of dollars a year and is doing just fine without p2w.
Would it make more as a p2w game? Almost definitely not.
And it's not e-sport exclusive. If LOL or DOTA2 (or my favorite, SMITE) has taught us anything, it's that you can have an online PVP game without any p2w aspects. People are perfectly happy spending tons of money on cosmetics.
This one statement scares me and is the reason I will not be trying the game at launch. I will sit back and wait to see what happens after the "launch phase" before deciding on playing this one. Too many game companies these days make statements like this and then use it later, as a basis for changing some game mechanic or business model to something terrible.
I'm not saying the game will fail or that they will do something like making the cash shop P2W, but that one statement leaves them plenty of room to do it if they decided to after launch. Thats enough for me to hold off and wait to see how it turns out.
The question I'm asking is why aren't they? The answer is not that the game mechanics preclude it from being possible.
Get to level cap (give or take a day's game play).
Get gold / credits
Get top end gear
But in both games, it's game mechanics (Specifically in how fast it takes to get caught up otherwise) They are not P2W.
Or to put it another way. Technically, both games are P2W, but it doesn't really change much.
Also, back in the early days of WoW, any one of those points would have made the game P2W, hands down, let alone all 3. Yet today, those very same points really aren't.......Why?
The game changed, not the business model.
My point is they could easily change this so the top gear, or enchantments or whatever become hard to get in-game and buyable in the cash shop.
If you're saying BDO is destined for P2W because our gear is all the same and only more poweful through upgrades, I suggest looking at Neverwinter. The gear is relatively easy to get, but the enchantments- which make you infinitely more powerful, are very hard to get and the top enchants are only available pretty much to exploiters or whales.
WoW or SWTOR could easily make a system like that tomorrow, if they wanted to. Why don't they want to?
I suggest it's possible that making a game p2w is not always the most profitable thing to do, and that's why there are so few actual successful p2w MMOs.
I'll tell you why I think BDO will go P2W. It's nothing more than my personal opinion that the Western demographic is being played for a complex (Good publicity) Bait-N-Switch game.
It's possible. However it's also possible that the game will not become the ultimate p2w Apocolypse like Jonas is suggesting.
My main point is that it doesn't have to happen, and I'm not sure if it would even be a good idea to do it. Most MMOs in the West succeed without p2w.
I do expect that we will be able to trade items on the marketplace eventually. I don't however expect that to happen very quickly, and when it does I don't expect it to immediately become a p2w Apocolypse overnight.
Even if it does, I don't necessarily think it will be game breaking. I've read plenty of posts on reddit from people playing the KR version and stating that p2w affects them rarely if ever.
***
Honestly I don't think Daum at this point knows whether or not they're going to go with a p2w system. I suspect they'll look at box sales and in-game shop sales and weigh that against the potential profits (and losses) of going p2w and make a decision from there.
I really don't get this predjudice against Asian video games. I grew up on Nintendo. Asia is quite capable of making great video games.
But sure, anything's possible, I can not read the future. Only guess.