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Is there any legal way or institution to protect players from Publishers? #P2W #Paid Add-ons etc

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  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    edited January 2016
    It's their game. They made it. You have zero rights in telling them what they can or cannot change or add to it.

    I got Star Wars Risk for Christmas. It's heavily geared to favor the Rebellion. (They win almost every time.) Can I take Hasbro to court because the game isn't fair?

    This whole idea is childish and arrogant.
    Well, they kinda started it first, recall EULA, installation agreements, and god knows how many other legal stuff i saw while installing and playing games.

    Dont suppose your risk was a computer game? If not, its other kind of ownership.

    But people are right, the clearest option must be the simplest one, play or dont.

    And one other guy said he likes p2w, so theres that.

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited January 2016
    If you want to scare the shit out of an MMO developer, tell them that the cash shop is technically gambling in your country, that minors are participating and that you're going to tell authorities.

    You'll get an email reply 2 seconds later.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    A13xand37 said:
    It's their game. They made it. You have zero rights in telling them what they can or cannot change or add to it.

    I got Star Wars Risk for Christmas. It's heavily geared to favor the Rebellion. (They win almost every time.) Can I take Hasbro to court because the game isn't fair?

    This whole idea is childish and arrogant.
    Well, they kinda started it first, recall EULA, installation agreements, and god knows how many other legal stuff i saw while installing and playing games.

    Dont suppose your risk was a computer game? If not, its other kind of ownership.


    The EULA is usually an attempt at fending off frivolous lawsuits.
  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    Kiyoris said:
    mgilbrtsn said:
    If you can prove fraud, you might have a case.  However, that is gonna be expensive to litigate, and is it worth the 50 bucks you spent.
    You don't need to prove anything, you can just chargeback your money, and the company will get a fine on top of it.

    And the reason MMO companies can't challenge chargebacks, is because when they do take it farther and it becomes a legal issue, and they actually get accused of minors gambling money in their game, not only will their game get shut down..they'll go to jail.
    Did you just answer my question -.- what an underdog if true.
  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    What an ignorant childish piece of trash idea.  If you don't like the way a certain game plays or is setup here is a tip...don't play it! 

    The entitlement mentality is a cancer in society and it's starting to infect video games how sad. 
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    What an ignorant childish piece of trash idea.  If you don't like the way a certain game plays or is setup here is a tip...don't play it! 

    The entitlement mentality
    Basically this argument boils down to:

    "Shut up gamers, don't speak up about çompanies who nickel and dime players, don't speak about the cash shop practices that make casinos look like angels, just shut up"

  • thinktank001thinktank001 Member UncommonPosts: 2,144
    edited January 2016

    It's their game. They made it. You have zero rights in telling them what they can or cannot change or add to it.

    I got Star Wars Risk for Christmas. It's heavily geared to favor the Rebellion. (They win almost every time.) Can I take Hasbro to court because the game isn't fair?

    This whole idea is childish and arrogant.

    I don't disagree that players don't have the right to tell developers what they can or cannot change, but why should consumers not be allowed partial/full refunds if a product is changed to the point that they don't enjoy it anymore?

    If a player doesn't like the new expansion, then why should they not be able to get a refund within a reasonable amount of time after their purchase?

    If a player buys early access and the gaming experience is drastically changed right before launch (archeage), then why should they not be allowed a refund?  



  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    What an ignorant childish piece of trash idea.  If you don't like the way a certain game plays or is setup here is a tip...don't play it! 

    The entitlement mentality is a cancer in society and it's starting to infect video games how sad. 
    Oh my friend ,you dont know cancer, should try to play some moba's.

    At least in gaming we know when something is changed for the worse, so thats a plus.
    Also, the "Dont play it!" thing, i totally got it, the most used sentance in the post.
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Stop being whales, fanbois, and white knights before these games have built full release credibility. Idiocracy though.
    good luck, there are just too many hole diggers in this world

    Star Citizen players are spending thousands of $ on an unfinished MMO, Black Desert fanboys have already covered themselves with kool-aid.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483

    It's their game. They made it. You have zero rights in telling them what they can or cannot change or add to it.

    I got Star Wars Risk for Christmas. It's heavily geared to favor the Rebellion. (They win almost every time.) Can I take Hasbro to court because the game isn't fair?

    This whole idea is childish and arrogant.

    I don't disagree that players don't have the right to tell developers what they can or cannot change, but why should consumers not be allowed partial/full refunds if a product is changed to the point that they don't enjoy it anymore?

    If a player doesn't like the new expansion, then why should they not be able to get a refund within a reasonable amount of time after their purchase?

    If a player buys early access and the gaming experience is drastically changed right before launch (archeage), then why should they not be allowed a refund?  



    Even if a game doesn't change very much, people get tired of it after a while--and will usually be able to point to some change as an excuse for why they don't like the game anymore.  If everyone who gets tired of a game gets a refund, how are developers supposed to make money?

    As for early access, you know full well that you're taking a risk.  I've got no sympathy for people who pay for early access and then don't like the product.  If you care if the game is any good, wait until sometime after it launches to start throwing money at it.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    bcbully said:
    So DLCs are bad now?

    Apparently anything you have to pay for is bad and p2w.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    Torval said:
    A13xand37 said:
    Kiyoris said:
    mgilbrtsn said:
    If you can prove fraud, you might have a case.  However, that is gonna be expensive to litigate, and is it worth the 50 bucks you spent.
    You don't need to prove anything, you can just chargeback your money, and the company will get a fine on top of it.

    And the reason MMO companies can't challenge chargebacks, is because when they do take it farther and it becomes a legal issue, and they actually get accused of minors gambling money in their game, not only will their game get shut down..they'll go to jail.
    Did you just answer my question -.- what an underdog if true.
    Yeah you should try that strategy. Report back and let us know how well that goes for you in the long run.

    What i had in my mind when i wrote this , is all those dozens of pages of posts i saw in archeage as example where players couldnt play the game which they paid for at all, or were permabanned and waited 1 month to play it.

    Not saying you shouldnt invest  in games, man there are games i just want to hug the developers and buy them a beer, and there are those.. other games, where the same creations are than pooped by publishers.


  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    Kiyoris said:
    What an ignorant childish piece of trash idea.  If you don't like the way a certain game plays or is setup here is a tip...don't play it! 

    The entitlement mentality
    Basically this argument boils down to:

    "Shut up gamers, don't speak up about çompanies who nickel and dime players, don't speak about the cash shop practices that make casinos look like angels, just shut up"

    No it boils down to be a grown adult and be responsible for your own damn decisions.  If you don't like how a game works or plays DONT play it, crying it's wrong and pouting how it's not fair to you is pathetic. 
  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    waynejr2 said:
    bcbully said:
    So DLCs are bad now?

    Apparently anything you have to pay for is bad and p2w.
    You funny guy ,you :>
    Laughing like them "insert title here" fools that bought core game ,than they had to buy the add-on on top, just to stay in the loop, becouse a one time payment sign wasnt clear enough.
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited January 2016
      If you don't like how a game works or plays DONT play it, crying it's wrong and pouting how it's not fair to you is pathetic. 
    Games and their model are changed after the fact. Games ask money upfront, they make promises, and then add game breaking items in the cash shop. Bait and switch is illegal.

    Not to mention these gaming companies are skirting with gambling laws, and one of these days someone is going to point out what everyone already knows...that combining gambling and minors....is illegal.

    The only one "pathetic" here is you for telling others to shut up. People have a right to voice their displeasure. This MMO industry is going down the drain at this rate. People are fed up with these cash shop scams.
  • reeereeereeereee Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Kiyoris said:
      If you don't like how a game works or plays DONT play it, crying it's wrong and pouting how it's not fair to you is pathetic. 
    Games and their model are changed after the fact. Games ask money upfront, they make promises, and then add game breaking items in the cash shop. Bait and switch is illegal.

    Not to mention these gaming companies are skirting with gambling laws, and one of these days someone is going to point out what everyone already knows...that combining gambling and minors....is illegal.

    The only one "pathetic" here is you for telling others to shut up. People have a right to voice their displeasure. This MMO industry is going down the drain at this rate. People are fed up with these cash shop scams.
    They don't seem fed up to me.  Hell, they don't even seem to be slowing down.  How many million did Star Citizen make selling ships last month?
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    reeereee said:
    They don't seem fed up to me.  Hell, they don't even seem to be slowing down.  How many million did Star Citizen make selling ships last month?
    From whales, the amount of people actually viewing SC videos and the amount of people on that forum is actually low.

    The reason the Pay 2 Win will die is simple.

    A King without peasants is not a King.

    The Pay 2 Win model, makes the whales Kings, but when the peasants start to realize that the Kingdom is actually a scam, and they leave, the King does no longer wield power over others, and is no longer a King.
  • reeereeereeereee Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Kiyoris said:
    reeereee said:
    They don't seem fed up to me.  Hell, they don't even seem to be slowing down.  How many million did Star Citizen make selling ships last month?
    From whales, the amount of people actually viewing SC videos and the amount of people on that forum is actually low.

    The reason the Pay 2 Win will die is simple.

    A King without peasants is not a King.

    The Pay 2 Win model, makes the whales Kings, but when the peasants start to realize that the Kingdom is actually a scam, and they leave, the King does no longer wield power over others, and is no longer a King.
    Right, that's an integral aspect of F2P that a lot of people around here haven't quite wrapped there heads around yet.  When F2P comes up so many people here like to call free players "freeloaders" and imply they're leeching off of other people when in truth they're a vital part of what makes the model run.
  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    Kiyoris said:
    reeereee said:
    They don't seem fed up to me.  Hell, they don't even seem to be slowing down.  How many million did Star Citizen make selling ships last month?
    From whales, the amount of people actually viewing SC videos and the amount of people on that forum is actually low.

    The reason the Pay 2 Win will die is simple.

    A King without peasants is not a King.

    The Pay 2 Win model, makes the whales Kings, but when the peasants start to realize that the Kingdom is actually a scam, and they leave, the King does no longer wield power over others, and is no longer a King.

    Have to go sleep, cant believe i stayed up so late just arguing, but kinda it was more constructive than playing a game :)

    Rarely who will get that reference.What you said, about king and peasants, happened exactly as so in Archeage, cant stress it enough, servers went desolate, and all that was left were whales ,living in their mansions with no audience to gloat in front.

    When i feel bad about p2w system, i remmember or go and watch this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7fsJ5Fnpiw makes me right as rain. And the fact that on forums so many people arguing are the paying players since they already tried to p2w but havent got enough money to win is kinda hilarious.

  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    Kiyoris said:
      If you don't like how a game works or plays DONT play it, crying it's wrong and pouting how it's not fair to you is pathetic. 
    Games and their model are changed after the fact. Games ask money upfront, they make promises, and then add game breaking items in the cash shop. Bait and switch is illegal.

    Not to mention these gaming companies are skirting with gambling laws, and one of these days someone is going to point out what everyone already knows...that combining gambling and minors....is illegal.

    The only one "pathetic" here is you for telling others to shut up. People have a right to voice their displeasure. This MMO industry is going down the drain at this rate. People are fed up with these cash shop scams.
    I'm not telling anyone to shut up I'm telling those like you who are crying about how a video game isn't fair and have this pathetic entitlement mentality to grow up and take responsibility for their own decisions.  Oh course people like you want to blame everyone else and feel that everything in life should be  handed to you and made how you want it to be.  If it's not you cry, protest, threaten frivolous lawsuits and send Obama petitions . It's sad, it's pathetic, and it's a cancer in society and a cancer in video games.   

    The mmo genre is going down the drain?  Care to post some facts on that?  Because clearly the facts are showing there are more mmos on the market then ever before and more people playing then ever before.  Now sure people like you want to be part other "cool kids" and parrot the doom and gloom losers without any facts.  Well keep crying buddy keep filing those petition, keep threatening those frivolous lawsuits keep it up buddy lol.

    Or grow up and start taking responsibly for YOUR own decisions. 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    A13xand37 said:


    So, how to prevent this from happening any longer?



    Think of it similar to selling poisoned food in markets with no consequences. 

    How to prevent it? Players need to grow up and start taking responsibility for how they spend their money. If a game indicates that it can change things "whenever" and a player has noted that he/she normally doesn't like "changes" the stop playing those games. If  game implements a cash shop don't play that game.

    It is hardly equal to selling poised food in markets with no consequences.
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  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    Kiyoris said:
    Stop being whales, fanbois, and white knights before these games have built full release credibility. Idiocracy though.
    good luck, there are just too many hole diggers in this world

    Star Citizen players are spending thousands of $ on an unfinished MMO, Black Desert fanboys have already covered themselves with kool-aid.
    And entitled drains on society are calling people who enjoy a hobby in a different way then them names...
  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    Sovrath said:
    A13xand37 said:


    So, how to prevent this from happening any longer?



    Think of it similar to selling poisoned food in markets with no consequences. 

    How to prevent it? Players need to grow up and start taking responsibility for how they spend their money. If a game indicates that it can change things "whenever" and a player has noted that he/she normally doesn't like "changes" the stop playing those games. If  game implements a cash shop don't play that game.

    It is hardly equal to selling poised food in markets with no consequences.
    Yeah these guys are so desperate to blaim everyone but themselves for a decision that is 100% their own they come up with these ridiculous insane analogies.    
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,973
    I think it would be good if games were forced to give better and more accurate price information so that gamers would have easier time making an educated decision on whether to start playing the game at all.

    But it would be absolutely ridiculous to start regulating what games are allowed to sell in their cash shop.

    Everyone should know the rules before they start the game, but no government has any right to tell me what kind of rules are allowed.
     
  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    Kiyoris said:
      If you don't like how a game works or plays DONT play it, crying it's wrong and pouting how it's not fair to you is pathetic. 
    Games and their model are changed after the fact. Games ask money upfront, they make promises, and then add game breaking items in the cash shop. Bait and switch is illegal.

    Not to mention these gaming companies are skirting with gambling laws, and one of these days someone is going to point out what everyone already knows...that combining gambling and minors....is illegal.

    The only one "pathetic" here is you for telling others to shut up. People have a right to voice their displeasure. This MMO industry is going down the drain at this rate. People are fed up with these cash shop scams.
    I'm not telling anyone to shut up I'm telling those like you who are crying about how a video game isn't fair and have this pathetic entitlement mentality to grow up and take responsibility for their own decisions.  Oh course people like you want to blame everyone else and feel that everything in life should be  handed to you and made how you want it to be.  If it's not you cry, protest, threaten frivolous lawsuits and send Obama petitions . It's sad, it's pathetic, and it's a cancer in society and a cancer in video games.   

    The mmo genre is going down the drain?  Care to post some facts on that?  Because clearly the facts are showing there are more mmos on the market then ever before and more people playing then ever before.  Now sure people like you want to be part other "cool kids" and parrot the doom and gloom losers without any facts.  Well keep crying buddy keep filing those petition, keep threatening those frivolous lawsuits keep it up buddy lol.

    Or grow up and start taking responsibly for YOUR own decisions. 
    Hm, wouldnt call it Decision of a player, when he is forced to pay extra money for the content he already paid for on paper.Or when he is forced to quit  the game he paid for becouse of gameplay problems induced by publisher.

    As much as id like you to be right, about toxicity, entitlement, must check the facts ,that when you dont face a problem ,it will be exploited.
    Its their right ,their product, we have no say about it, and dont need to buy it.
    That is true.

    Still, it is also true p2w model is causing much more grief on the net than good, and the only good is making publishers richer, not developers, publishers, you know ,the ones that have 30 lawyers ready on stand-by.

    It is plain and simple, injustice, and turning a blind eye, or as you say, shows, that we dont care.

    The game cant be fair or not, its a game, stealing cash from underaged players tho, selling the same thing multiple times, and lying about the product, is cash related.
    Cash implication makes it pretty clear, so that even the most witty people like yourself could  realise misconduct.

    Also, it IS influating negatively on mmorpg genre, since in numbers, many players are migrating to moba and online shooter genres, try googling it, you may not believe it, but it is happening unfortunatelly.
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