No, you agree with subscriptions and potential expansions when you buy those products. But you don't agree with "running costing real money" 6 months after you bought a game.
hmm .. i don't remember devs explicitly promised that business model will never change, nor that games will never be shut-down.
It seems many haven't even read the OP. He is not talking about a right to play games for free, or paying for something and then changing your mind. He is talking about paying for a product and then being forced to spend more ( unless you want your time and initial money investment to go to waste) by shady P2W additions.
People don't think through the implications of what they ask for. You're essentially describing every subscription ever. You pay $60 for a game and $15 a month. If you don't pay more then everything you've put into the game goes to waste. An expansion comes out and costs an additional $60, $90, or $150 and unless you pay that everything you put into the game will be rendered a waste.
Are subscriptions therefore shady P2W tactics? Think about the implications of what you're proposing.
MMOs are evolutionary by nature. They don't stay static unless they're going to die.
No, you agree with subscriptions and potential expansions when you buy those products. But you don't agree with "running costing real money" 6 months after you bought a game.
A very important protection against that is reputational loss. If you know that company X tends to launch games with business models you like, then convert the game to flagrant pay to win a year later, you're probably far more hesitant to play a game from company X.
The first time a company does something like that, sure, you had no warning. But the second time, or the third? Losing customers who would otherwise have bought your games is a pretty strong deterrent, which is why the only examples I can think of were desperate companies on their way to going out of business if they didn't shake things up.
For me an almost level playing field is a must to enjoy a game. I believe for most people at least occasionally winning is a must as well, but that's not the point.
Why would they regulate advantages in PVP, why would they regulate pre-sales in just gaming when it's common in most forms of industry? Why would they begin to attempt to regulate preserving a certain type of consumer's "fun"?
Read the remaining part of my post. Still, gaming is the most abused industry, since most people have the conception that gamers are really or mentally "kids". It is ingrained to society at this point which considers anything non-productive in the financial sense a waste of time. Even though many here also suggest gaming isn't a necessity, it was part of way of life of humans long before some of the necessities the law does protect now.
Gaming is the most abused? What are you basing that on? Plenty of things are abused in such a way.. From ticket sales to hobby shops... Over-priced garbage sold in way that pushes one toward more pointless purchases. Better seats for a better price, foods are another example... some of the most pointless things are the most expensive, all feeding off some human flaw..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It seems many haven't even read the OP. He is not talking about a right to play games for free, or paying for something and then changing your mind. He is talking about paying for a product and then being forced to spend more ( unless you want your time and initial money investment to go to waste) by shady P2W additions.
hmm .. no one is forced to do anything. I have played plenty of f2p. You always have the option of not buying anything, or quit the game.
Winning is a desire, is not a must, in playing a game.
For me an almost level playing field is a must to enjoy a game. I believe for most people at least occasionally winning is a must as well, but that's not the point.
Some people are more skilled than me. That's not fair.
Some people have more free time than me. That's not fair.
An entirely level playing field is never going to happen apart from games that are pure random chance. The real question is how it will be unlevel--and which types of things making a playing field unlevel are acceptable.
All this unfairness is true yet they don't talk about it. This is about entitlement.
Where their are rights there are responsibilities. How about those bill of righters do something first: Act like smart consumers.
Then again, if you aren't spending money you aren't a consumer, you are a freeloader.
Anyone care to guess how many of these guys roam from free to play game to another and get angry/jealous at those who get benefits from spend money. If there is a free to play game why would someone spend money if they don't get something in return. Now someone mind open their pie hole and say allowing them to spend money is ok if it is only cosmetic. But that is the free to play person making that demand. Silly person.
Business need to step up their game as well. They need to understand that someone who doesn't spend money in their game isn't a customer.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
For me an almost level playing field is a must to enjoy a game. I believe for most people at least occasionally winning is a must as well, but that's not the point.
Why would they regulate advantages in PVP, why would they regulate pre-sales in just gaming when it's common in most forms of industry? Why would they begin to attempt to regulate preserving a certain type of consumer's "fun"?
Read the remaining part of my post. Still, gaming is the most abused industry, since most people have the conception that gamers are really or mentally "kids". It is ingrained to society at this point which considers anything non-productive in the financial sense a waste of time. Even though many here also suggest gaming isn't a necessity, it was part of way of life of humans long before some of the necessities the law does protect now.
Gaming is the most abused? What are you basing that on? Plenty of things are abused in such a way.. From ticket sales to hobby shops... Over-priced garbage sold in way that pushes one toward more pointless purchases. Better seats for a better price, foods are another example... some of the most pointless things are the most expensive, all feeding off some human flaw..
yup...we are STILL recoverying from the real estate industry of 2008 while feeding our kids whoppers as a key example
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Recently there has been a wave of titles currently F2P implementing gameplay breaking items to the "Cash Shop"
Consumables that grant a player significantly more leverage gear-wise, are like a low kick in boxing, theyr just plain, wrong.
Granting players the opportunity to purchase the game once with all its merits, but charging add-on's that contain content or even worse gear-relevant value in them, is exploitation and extortion ,to say the least.
So, how to prevent this from happening any longer?
http://gamersbillofrights.org/ This is a start ,but hardly valid in the justice system, its a shady ground, that should get more definition and rules.
Think of it similar to selling poisoned food in markets with no consequences. Only here you dont go to the hospital, but after you feel as cheated, or stressed much, might very well go to psychiatrist..and give him the money greedy publishers demanded.
I hate to say it, but come on. lol If you don't like the practices of a games developers, stop giving them your money. The major game developers are in the business to make money. The more they can make even if it means ruining a game, well why not. If its good for the bottom dollar, who cares about the future. I mean my nephew who is 15 has (and I added it all up) 750$ that he spent on hearthstone, with no job.
This is basically because that while prices for everything else has gone up (generally speaking) games have not. I am not saying games should cost more, because they shouldn't imo. But think about when we were kids (those of you who are in there 30's or older.) Do any of you think you spent 750 on any single game or could have talked your parents into that as a kid? I was happy to get 20 bucks once a month for chores. lol
Developers are aware that America is ADHD inc. lol we go through games faster than now, than we ever have, and the amount of money someone who doesn't have a job can drop on something, why wouldn't you fill a game with dlc that sheep will buy over and over lol its all about the $$. Another example, i know a guy at work who dropped 1k on summoners war. On a game for his smart phone. I love living here, but lol the country is going to hell in a hand basket when someone drops 1k on something for a "chance" at an edge. We are just lazy lol. (i am no exception but i don't throw away my money.)
I do think if a game like ESO comes out as a P2P game and if they change to anything else like they did to B2P then yes, they should have to return the money the customer paid for the game at the time of release.
No matter how long it has been. No company should sell the game one way then change their mind later because they do not think it is making as much as they think they should be.
But then again the only way to stop these company's is with the customers wallets.
I do think if a game like ESO comes out as a P2P game and if they change to anything else like they did to B2P then yes, they should have to return the money the customer paid for the game at the time of release.
No matter how long it has been. No company should sell the game one way then change their mind later because they do not think it is making as much as they think they should be.
But then again the only way to stop these company's is with the customers wallets.
there are some problems with that I will use EQ2 as an example.
When I first bought the game the top level was level 20 and there was only three regions. Basically only a small portion of content that most players can play thru now in about a weekend.
Should I get my money back?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
there are some problems with that I will use EQ2 as an example.
When I first bought the game the top level was level 20 and there was only three regions. Basically only a small portion of content that most players can play thru now in about a weekend.
Should I get my money back?
I have no idea to what you're referring. EQ2 at release had 50 max level both adv and trds and a world massive by comparison to later games.
there are some problems with that I will use EQ2 as an example.
When I first bought the game the top level was level 20 and there was only three regions. Basically only a small portion of content that most players can play thru now in about a weekend.
Should I get my money back?
I have no idea to what you're referring. EQ2 at release had 50 max level both adv and trds and a world massive by comparison to later games.
I dont think that is correct. I am nearly positive it had only three main regions, and max was 20.
and regardless of that focusing on the example of a larger trended is focusing on the wrong part of the story. Should I use WoW for my example instead?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
No, I don't remember that at all. I remember DVDs coming out and not being $30. I remember laser discs being that expensive, but they were never that widely adopted and they were superceded by DVDs quickly.
I think your focused on the wrong part of the story
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
there are some problems with that I will use EQ2 as an example.
When I first bought the game the top level was level 20 and there was only three regions. Basically only a small portion of content that most players can play thru now in about a weekend.
Should I get my money back?
I have no idea to what you're referring. EQ2 at release had 50 max level both adv and trds and a world massive by comparison to later games.
I dont think that is correct. I am nearly positive it had only three main regions, and max was 20.
Vanilla EQ2 was relative to how it was in the time-delay server this last july and august, minus a few zones like FFS, DLW, neriak. The zones of Antonica, Commonlands, TSteppes and Nektulos are massive, even by comparison to WoW, those 4 zones, level 7-30ish by comparison equal about the square km of one of the two WoW vanilla continents. Then there were sprawling 30-50 zones, some average sized dungeons and the massive dungeon-crawl slog that was Solusek's Eye at 50.
there are some problems with that I will use EQ2 as an example.
When I first bought the game the top level was level 20 and there was only three regions. Basically only a small portion of content that most players can play thru now in about a weekend.
Should I get my money back?
I have no idea to what you're referring. EQ2 at release had 50 max level both adv and trds and a world massive by comparison to later games.
I dont think that is correct. I am nearly positive it had only three main regions, and max was 20.
Vanilla EQ2 was relative to how it was in the time-delay server this last july and august, minus a few zones like FFS, DLW, neriak. The zones of Antonica, Commonlands, TSteppes and Nektulos are massive, even by comparison to WoW, those 4 zones, level 7-30ish by comparison equal about the square km of one of the two WoW vanilla continents. Then there were sprawling 30-50 zones, some average sized dungeons and the massive dungeon-crawl slog that was Solusek's Eye at 50.
TSteppes and Nektulos did not exist in 2004 when I first bought it. That I know nearly 100%.
and I recall coming back to the game years later when clan housing was introduced.
MORE IMPORTANTLY....than that....... its fairly common for MMOs to add new maps, new content, new levels. so should the orginal purchasers of those games get their money back?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Tsteppes is not a separate island. It's connected to antonica. Same with nektulos and commonlands. They were in on release. I don't recall the levels though.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
No, I don't remember that at all. I remember DVDs coming out and not being $30. I remember laser discs being that expensive, but they were never that widely adopted and they were superceded by DVDs quickly.
I think your focused on the wrong part of the story
Their point is that it's always been that expensive so the comparison is irrelevant. But that isn't true. The discussion stemmed from the fact that publishers charge too much and must be regulated in how much they can charge through court action. I pointed out that would be a hornets nest because lots of entertainment costs have gone up (citing movie costs). Where does that end? Who is entitled to protection. What does that protection even mean? How would governments even approach legislation dictating how much can be charged?
I was just saying I'm not accepting the argument being dismissed because it was always that way for movies, but not for games.
fair enough price controls on entertainment makes communism look like childs play.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
there are some problems with that I will use EQ2 as an example.
When I first bought the game the top level was level 20 and there was only three regions. Basically only a small portion of content that most players can play thru now in about a weekend.
Should I get my money back?
I have no idea to what you're referring. EQ2 at release had 50 max level both adv and trds and a world massive by comparison to later games.
I dont think that is correct. I am nearly positive it had only three main regions, and max was 20.
Vanilla EQ2 was relative to how it was in the time-delay server this last july and august, minus a few zones like FFS, DLW, neriak. The zones of Antonica, Commonlands, TSteppes and Nektulos are massive, even by comparison to WoW, those 4 zones, level 7-30ish by comparison equal about the square km of one of the two WoW vanilla continents. Then there were sprawling 30-50 zones, some average sized dungeons and the massive dungeon-crawl slog that was Solusek's Eye at 50.
TSteppes and Nektulos did not exist in 2004 when I first bought it. That I know nearly 100%.
and I recall coming back to the game years later when clan housing was introduced.
MORE IMPORTANTLY....than that....... its fairly common for MMOs to add new maps, new content, new levels. so should the orginal purchasers of those games get their money back?
Maybe you NEARLY know it 100%. At the same time you are 100% wrong.
there are some problems with that I will use EQ2 as an example.
When I first bought the game the top level was level 20 and there was only three regions. Basically only a small portion of content that most players can play thru now in about a weekend.
Should I get my money back?
I have no idea to what you're referring. EQ2 at release had 50 max level both adv and trds and a world massive by comparison to later games.
I dont think that is correct. I am nearly positive it had only three main regions, and max was 20.
Vanilla EQ2 was relative to how it was in the time-delay server this last july and august, minus a few zones like FFS, DLW, neriak. The zones of Antonica, Commonlands, TSteppes and Nektulos are massive, even by comparison to WoW, those 4 zones, level 7-30ish by comparison equal about the square km of one of the two WoW vanilla continents. Then there were sprawling 30-50 zones, some average sized dungeons and the massive dungeon-crawl slog that was Solusek's Eye at 50.
TSteppes and Nektulos did not exist in 2004 when I first bought it. That I know nearly 100%.
MORE IMPORTANTLY....than that....... its fairly common for MMOs to add new maps, new content, new levels. so should the orginal purchasers of those games get their money back?
Lol. Yes, they did exist. And when they added DoF? Well, it was a bit lackluster of an expac, people "might" have wanted money back for it, in and of itself. KoS did a little better, but the two of them hardly equaled WoW's BC expac.
No, not many people even considered refunds, because the precedent for expacs had been set years prior. It's like you're trying to re-write history and re-invent the wheel, here. I see it as a couple afternoon trips to nice museums, you see it something as getting a small bone in your Chick-Fil-a. Millenials, I swear.
Comments
The first time a company does something like that, sure, you had no warning. But the second time, or the third? Losing customers who would otherwise have bought your games is a pretty strong deterrent, which is why the only examples I can think of were desperate companies on their way to going out of business if they didn't shake things up.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All this unfairness is true yet they don't talk about it. This is about entitlement.
Where their are rights there are responsibilities. How about those bill of righters do something first: Act like smart consumers.
Then again, if you aren't spending money you aren't a consumer, you are a freeloader.
Anyone care to guess how many of these guys roam from free to play game to another and get angry/jealous at those who get benefits from spend money. If there is a free to play game why would someone spend money if they don't get something in return. Now someone mind open their pie hole and say allowing them to spend money is ok if it is only cosmetic. But that is the free to play person making that demand. Silly person.
Business need to step up their game as well. They need to understand that someone who doesn't spend money in their game isn't a customer.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
This is basically because that while prices for everything else has gone up (generally speaking) games have not. I am not saying games should cost more, because they shouldn't imo. But think about when we were kids (those of you who are in there 30's or older.) Do any of you think you spent 750 on any single game or could have talked your parents into that as a kid? I was happy to get 20 bucks once a month for chores. lol
Developers are aware that America is ADHD inc. lol we go through games faster than now, than we ever have, and the amount of money someone who doesn't have a job can drop on something, why wouldn't you fill a game with dlc that sheep will buy over and over lol its all about the $$. Another example, i know a guy at work who dropped 1k on summoners war. On a game for his smart phone. I love living here, but lol the country is going to hell in a hand basket when someone drops 1k on something for a "chance" at an edge. We are just lazy lol. (i am no exception but i don't throw away my money.)
Rawrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrr..... ok I am done. lol
No matter how long it has been. No company should sell the game one way then change their mind later because they do not think it is making as much as they think they should be.
But then again the only way to stop these company's is with the customers wallets.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
When I first bought the game the top level was level 20 and there was only three regions. Basically only a small portion of content that most players can play thru now in about a weekend.
Should I get my money back?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Life IS Feudal
the new Marvel Super Hero named 'The Victim'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=crowdfunding+scams
and regardless of that focusing on the example of a larger trended is focusing on the wrong part of the story. Should I use WoW for my example instead?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
and I recall coming back to the game years later when clan housing was introduced.
MORE IMPORTANTLY....than that.......
its fairly common for MMOs to add new maps, new content, new levels. so should the orginal purchasers of those games get their money back?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
price controls on entertainment makes communism look like childs play.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
No, not many people even considered refunds, because the precedent for expacs had been set years prior. It's like you're trying to re-write history and re-invent the wheel, here. I see it as a couple afternoon trips to nice museums, you see it something as getting a small bone in your Chick-Fil-a. Millenials, I swear.
are
focused
on
the
wrong
part
of
the
story
should I get my money back because I bought EQ2 before clan housing?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me