Than by all means kill wow Its pretty underwhelming seeing most of todays titles release, cant remmember a hyped mmo title that didnt flop in years, they either dont deliver ,or go stiff with no content, or go p2w, and thats all. And with the number of "Meh" average titles being released, the online mmo community will only be more spread thin and pushed back into other genres.
Like the statue of a great dictator, the stone visage of MMO's will roll over, upon the shadow of WoW and create a new era. But that can no be complete until WoW shut's down. It needs to die, in order for MMO's to be reborn.
I think the Golden Age as you say is over. Like another poster stated as well I think when MMOs were not as well known was more so the Golden Age. While for some who like questing it is now being seen as a bad thing when you have quest hubs, or when you use tab targeting etc. I would ask maybe to list some things that you would think could provide a resurgence in the genre.
Personally I really like the free targeting system. I would say I could enjoy pvp but the way pvp is implemented and it's abuse by the players just makes it so I can never fully immerse myself in it. In regards to WOW, well I don't really see the game stopping for at least another 10 years, the population will continue to decline simply because it really is a rehash of the same thing with each expansion. I think if Blizzard really wanted to make a ridiculous sum of money, all they would have to so is make WOW a single player game and re-release every expansion as a stand alone segment. I"m not sure how much money that would take, but to be able to play Wow on my ps4 without going online etc. So much money would be made.
The problem is people are looking at this all wrong. WOW dying will not magically bring a new Golden Age in for MMOS. And these new MMOs coming out will not save the Genera period. Many of them go back to the PVP centric Sandboxes that were before WOW, and bring back arcane no longer acceptable game play like harsh death penalties. And to say that any of these new games can survive on a few thousand players are lost. Today it is no acceptable to run a server under someones desk like it use to be during the UO days, and the cost of computer infrastructure is expensive and no the cloud is not a silver bullet more like a wake up call telling you the real cost of IT.
Until people get past that and stop blaming WOW for everything will we have an honest conversation about what WOW really did wrong to the Genera and what WOW did right. For example What WOW did wrong would be adding the automated cross realm LFG tool that caused communities to become non-existent outside of few good guilds per server. Because we know many guilds today are nothing more than glorified chat channels with players in them who do nothing but queue for instances. What else did WOW do wrong? Countless DPS check fights vs Fights that required TEAMWORK and Communication, who is CCing which target, where to move when the boss does a certain attack and so on. Not having to have X level of DPS on recount. These are 2 things that WOW did that hurt the genera more than anything and this started in WOTLK. The first 4 years of WOW had it issues HOWEVER it still resembled an MMO which required interaction with other players to do more than run around doing quest and crafting.
And no WOW dying will not bring WOW Players to another MMO. Those players still playing today are WOW players nothing more because nearly all the players left there are players who Queue up for content and never make an effort to do much more. In time these players will move on in real life and quit the treadmill because they are already realizing what WOW is. And no Legion will not fix this because WOW would loose the last of its player base by truly undoing everything it has done from WOTLK on. I know I was in the MOP beta and loved the first few weeks where I had to have my good CC mobs and get out of fire on one of the bosses in Slag Mines. It required Teamwork yet people on the Beta forums who only Queue for dungeons bitched that it took 60 mins to do a dungeon and wanted 10 to 15 minute dungeon runs because they were more important than a MMO Vet because they played a total of 3 hours a week. WOW has to cater to these people because that is all that is left. Even if WOW changed I will not go back to WOW because its OVER for me. Hell Minecraft is more engaging than WOW.
So until WE as an MMO Community stop thinking that MMOS have to go back to PRE WOW and come to grips that the first 4 years of WOW was not that bad we will not have good games that we will enjoy. And BTW I tried to go back to Pre WOW games. They were good when you had no life, they are not that good when you have limited time and a life. WOW had a better balance between what MMOS should go for, only WOW got so greedy for a one MMO Rules them all game.
We need to face facts (IMO). The days of western made AAA MMORPG's are over for the foreseeable future. It's the time of asian grinders and limited by budget indie titles.
Most of the big publishing houses are concentrating on MOBA's and lobby based shooters. In my knowledge there is no AAA MMO's in the pipeline. I do not count SC due to it being funded by the generosity of it's backers and DBG (SOE) haven't got Sony backing them anymore.
WoW closing it's doors will not change that, but more likely will reinforce the above.
The golden age of MMO's ended with the launch of WoW and ever since we have been greeted (IMO) with a plethora of MMO's that failed to meet expectations, evident by the majority of them going FTP or closing down.
The only way (IMO) we can have another golden age is for one or more of the forthcoming indie games to be highly successful, which in turns ramps up the investment in the genre to produce the next big hit.
Edit: Just wanted to add before I get lots of hate, WoW was the last (IMO) of the golden age and not the cause of the ending of the golden age.
I think the issue with WoW has nothing to do with the players or some kind of hatred for the game itself, but it is the expectation of potential game producers that steer away from creating a Triple-A MMO because not getting WoW numbers means not being successful. It is even more an issue outside of the Asian markets. Now there are plenty of MMOs with steady participation and solid communities, but how many can be called "risky" undertakings? What a lot of these potential producers don't realize is that WoW had the D&D and Warcraft RPG crowd locked when it released and they built on that popularity. After that, it was mostly being the right game at the right time for players to get into MMOs for the first time. That formula can't be duplicated and it seem many have stopped trying.
Give me 300 million dollars, immunity against all labor, anti-trust laws and soliciting, along with the promise of never turning a profit and I can make a game that would be 'better' than WoW.
With enough talent, money and a ruthless project manager you could easily make an amazing MMORPG.
Problem is most MMOs are failing on one of those three things.
Like the statue of a great dictator, the stone visage of MMO's will roll over, upon the shadow of WoW and create a new era. But that can no be complete until WoW shut's down. It needs to die, in order for MMO's to be reborn.
The MMO genre was never popular and nobody has been able to copy the success of wow since, wow was a freak one off that probably will never be repeated. There was no golden age, there was no time when the MMO genre was huge. The only thing that was popular was WOW.
No MMO has ever even got above 1 million subscribers other than SWTOR (and they lost those within a short amout of time). When WoW dies so will the ONLY mass appeal MMO that has ever existed.
The only MMO titles that get above 1 million subs are ones that LIE or mislead about their numbers and pretend lifetime registered accounts are the same thing as active users / subscribers, XIV for instance is a prime example of a company lying to look popular when they aren't.
We need to face facts (IMO). The days of western made AAA MMORPG's are over for the foreseeable future. It's the time of asian grinders and limited by budget indie titles.
Sad but true. I do see hope in open-world sandboxes though.
Like the statue of a great dictator, the stone visage of MMO's will roll over, upon the shadow of WoW and create a new era. But that can no be complete until WoW shut's down. It needs to die, in order for MMO's to be reborn.
The MMO genre was never popular and nobody has been able to copy the success of wow since, wow was a freak one off that probably will never be repeated. There was no golden age, there was no time when the MMO genre was huge. The only thing that was popular was WOW.
No MMO has ever even got above 1 million subscribers other than SWTOR (and they lost those within a short amout of time). When WoW dies so will the ONLY mass appeal MMO that has ever existed.
The only MMO titles that get above 1 million subs are ones that LIE or mislead about their numbers and pretend lifetime registered accounts are the same thing as active users / subscribers, XIV for instance is a prime example of a company lying to look popular when they aren't.
IMO the golden age of MMO's is nothing to do with profit and sub numbers but more to do with diversity and the quality of the games. Pre WoW the genre was more niche but you had a diverse selection of games to choose from, for example EQ, UO, AC, DAoC, AO, Lineage, Shadowbane, FFXI, SWG and WoW to name a few. Each played differently from each other and was able to immerse you in a different world. Post WoW most MMO's I've played just give you a sense of deja vu. IMO there has been no diversity unless you wanted to play a bugged, broken, half baked sandbox full loot OWPvP game.
Like the statue of a great dictator, the stone visage of MMO's will roll over, upon the shadow of WoW and create a new era. But that can no be complete until WoW shut's down. It needs to die, in order for MMO's to be reborn.
So, if we use the WAYBACK machine to enter the "Golden Age" of MMOs where we had our Pre-WoW selections. What are we seeing? 100K, 200K, 250K subscriptions tops? What exactly is this "New Golden Age" you are dreaming up?
It's a serious question.....What exactly is happening in the post-WoW vision you are seeing?
Like the statue of a great dictator, the stone visage of MMO's will roll over, upon the shadow of WoW and create a new era. But that can no be complete until WoW shut's down. It needs to die, in order for MMO's to be reborn.
So, if we use the WAYBACK machine to enter the "Golden Age" of MMOs where we had our Pre-WoW selections. What are we seeing? 100K, 200K, 250K subscriptions tops? What exactly is this "New Golden Age" you are dreaming up?
It's a serious question.....What exactly is happening in the post-WoW vision you are seeing?
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Wow is a non-issue for nearly every single player I played Wow with in it's classic era. I was part of a guild centered around several friends, a huge chunk of some of their own families (made families ... 2 married and now have a kid who met in Wow) and a multi-game community that had a guild from vanilla through Wotlk. They disbanded due it continually becoming something different from when it started as.
The guild was one of the largest guilds at the time ... and NOBODY plays Wow from it anymore.
Whether or not Wow exists today is meaningless. Many of those same players would join a new socially friendly mmorpg again in a heartbeat. Wow does not offer the game play that attracted us to it therefore it has nothing to do with the choice of playing a new mmo.
The only thing keeping a large former guild like ours reforming is the fact that nearly no current mmo offers a reason for the guild to exist currently. Most are far too solo friendly. We want a game that offers group play throughout the entire leveling process and beyond. Most mmos today only offer tiny little bits of group play mixed into a vast majority of solo play one MUST endure.
I hate what Wow has become but I an not a Wow hater. Myself and many others would play Wow again if it became the game it once used to be. Do not kid yourselves people, the masses who play Wow today are a different breed from who first started playing the game. Those left or continue to return have simply stomached a completed different game.
I for one, like this proposal. I can't wait for hardcore mmo's to spring into the market and kick these casuals out of the genre. They're filthy, filthy they don't bathe. EQ can survive with 30k subscribers and why not have more hardcore rpgs that restore rpgs to what they were supposed to look like. It's like lets have a dragonballz mmorpg come out! Yeah, that wouldn't piss off rpg purists from hell over. I mean, get these cartoon orcs off my internet!!!
You know, i actually kinda hate the current WoW - been doing it since Cataclysm, which destroyed everything i held dear from Azeroth. Yet, i tried many times to move away into a better game, and guess what... The only titles i can stand are from different genres, because every MMORPG out there sucks major balls.
WoW isn't the problem, as others above me stated. The problem is that game designers are greedy bastards that think only in the money and not in making a good product.
WoW has lost ~5M players. The sad fact is that number hasn't shown up across the gaming spectrum. That number has simply left gaming, or joined the ranks of P4F and doesn't spend money so have become irrelevant. There is a school of thought that the only thing keeping the MMO genre alive is WoW and it's community. That subscription community is thought to be where Whales come from. Every other MMO that is making money is doing so because a WoW subscriber spreads the wealth.
No, the second Golden Age will be ushered in by the sustained MMO subscription of 1M+ for 1+ years. With the reemergence of an economy that can support subscription gaming. And a population eager once again to partake in subscription gaming, then and only then will the New Golden Age be unveiled.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
OP, I agree but only to the fact that the gaming population is finite, especially in terms of MMORPGs. MOBAs and such do ok because they are easy to get in and get out of, you dont have to take them too seriously, but MMORPGs tend to have extreme grinds (in comparison) and often lackluster rewards. With that said, there's also WoW-cloning, so people aren't going to really take a game seriously that is similar to wow in most aspects when they could just play wow which has 10 years of content behind it. If its dead, people will wander and more games will increase in population.
While it may have no consequence to the market at the time, I hope I live long enough to see that fucker fold. WoW has done immeasurable damage to the genre.
WoW did a lot more to advance the genre than it did to damage it. Since when do we blame a product or entity for being successful? WoW isn't to blame for their success and popularity, people are.
WoW is like monopoly, and just about every game that got produced that has borrowed systems from it are like variations of Monopoly. WoW's death knell isn't going to change anything because even if it did kick the bucket there are enough variants that one of the other versions will simply take it's seat. That or another game that is just as popular will do the same.
And then the golden age was folloed by the golden shower :pleased:
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
Its pretty underwhelming seeing most of todays titles release, cant remmember a hyped mmo title that didnt flop in years, they either dont deliver ,or go stiff with no content, or go p2w, and thats all.
And with the number of "Meh" average titles being released, the online mmo community will only be more spread thin and pushed back into other genres.
Personally I really like the free targeting system. I would say I could enjoy pvp but the way pvp is implemented and it's abuse by the players just makes it so I can never fully immerse myself in it. In regards to WOW, well I don't really see the game stopping for at least another 10 years, the population will continue to decline simply because it really is a rehash of the same thing with each expansion. I think if Blizzard really wanted to make a ridiculous sum of money, all they would have to so is make WOW a single player game and re-release every expansion as a stand alone segment. I"m not sure how much money that would take, but to be able to play Wow on my ps4 without going online etc. So much money would be made.
Until people get past that and stop blaming WOW for everything will we have an honest conversation about what WOW really did wrong to the Genera and what WOW did right. For example What WOW did wrong would be adding the automated cross realm LFG tool that caused communities to become non-existent outside of few good guilds per server. Because we know many guilds today are nothing more than glorified chat channels with players in them who do nothing but queue for instances. What else did WOW do wrong? Countless DPS check fights vs Fights that required TEAMWORK and Communication, who is CCing which target, where to move when the boss does a certain attack and so on. Not having to have X level of DPS on recount. These are 2 things that WOW did that hurt the genera more than anything and this started in WOTLK. The first 4 years of WOW had it issues HOWEVER it still resembled an MMO which required interaction with other players to do more than run around doing quest and crafting.
And no WOW dying will not bring WOW Players to another MMO. Those players still playing today are WOW players nothing more because nearly all the players left there are players who Queue up for content and never make an effort to do much more. In time these players will move on in real life and quit the treadmill because they are already realizing what WOW is. And no Legion will not fix this because WOW would loose the last of its player base by truly undoing everything it has done from WOTLK on. I know I was in the MOP beta and loved the first few weeks where I had to have my good CC mobs and get out of fire on one of the bosses in Slag Mines. It required Teamwork yet people on the Beta forums who only Queue for dungeons bitched that it took 60 mins to do a dungeon and wanted 10 to 15 minute dungeon runs because they were more important than a MMO Vet because they played a total of 3 hours a week. WOW has to cater to these people because that is all that is left. Even if WOW changed I will not go back to WOW because its OVER for me. Hell Minecraft is more engaging than WOW.
So until WE as an MMO Community stop thinking that MMOS have to go back to PRE WOW and come to grips that the first 4 years of WOW was not that bad we will not have good games that we will enjoy. And BTW I tried to go back to Pre WOW games. They were good when you had no life, they are not that good when you have limited time and a life. WOW had a better balance between what MMOS should go for, only WOW got so greedy for a one MMO Rules them all game.
Most of the big publishing houses are concentrating on MOBA's and lobby based shooters. In my knowledge there is no AAA MMO's in the pipeline. I do not count SC due to it being funded by the generosity of it's backers and DBG (SOE) haven't got Sony backing them anymore.
WoW closing it's doors will not change that, but more likely will reinforce the above.
The golden age of MMO's ended with the launch of WoW and ever since we have been greeted (IMO) with a plethora of MMO's that failed to meet expectations, evident by the majority of them going FTP or closing down.
The only way (IMO) we can have another golden age is for one or more of the forthcoming indie games to be highly successful, which in turns ramps up the investment in the genre to produce the next big hit.
Edit: Just wanted to add before I get lots of hate, WoW was the last (IMO) of the golden age and not the cause of the ending of the golden age.
With enough talent, money and a ruthless project manager you could easily make an amazing MMORPG.
Problem is most MMOs are failing on one of those three things.
No MMO has ever even got above 1 million subscribers other than SWTOR (and they lost those within a short amout of time). When WoW dies so will the ONLY mass appeal MMO that has ever existed.
The only MMO titles that get above 1 million subs are ones that LIE or mislead about their numbers and pretend lifetime registered accounts are the same thing as active users / subscribers, XIV for instance is a prime example of a company lying to look popular when they aren't.
It's a serious question.....What exactly is happening in the post-WoW vision you are seeing?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
The New Golden Age is WoW2 obviously
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
The guild was one of the largest guilds at the time ... and NOBODY plays Wow from it anymore.
Whether or not Wow exists today is meaningless. Many of those same players would join a new socially friendly mmorpg again in a heartbeat. Wow does not offer the game play that attracted us to it therefore it has nothing to do with the choice of playing a new mmo.
The only thing keeping a large former guild like ours reforming is the fact that nearly no current mmo offers a reason for the guild to exist currently. Most are far too solo friendly. We want a game that offers group play throughout the entire leveling process and beyond. Most mmos today only offer tiny little bits of group play mixed into a vast majority of solo play one MUST endure.
I hate what Wow has become but I an not a Wow hater. Myself and many others would play Wow again if it became the game it once used to be. Do not kid yourselves people, the masses who play Wow today are a different breed from who first started playing the game. Those left or continue to return have simply stomached a completed different game.
You stay sassy!
Those golden era games don't even have much players and they survived.
So the reality is those games dont' even need much players to survive.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The only titles i can stand are from different genres, because every MMORPG out there sucks major balls.
WoW isn't the problem, as others above me stated. The problem is that game designers are greedy bastards that think only in the money and not in making a good product.
BTW, Pantheon will suck too.
No, the second Golden Age will be ushered in by the sustained MMO subscription of 1M+ for 1+ years. With the reemergence of an economy that can support subscription gaming. And a population eager once again to partake in subscription gaming, then and only then will the New Golden Age be unveiled.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
WoW did a lot more to advance the genre than it did to damage it. Since when do we blame a product or entity for being successful? WoW isn't to blame for their success and popularity, people are.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED