I wouldn't disagree. The point, I think, of the article, though, was that the current price point and system requirements could kill the OR before it ever drops its price.
I think the point being made on Oculus' side is that the 'Rift' is like 'Telsa' for electric cars. It has a smaller user base, but it's made a big impact in showing what can be done now. They wanted a product to showcase as their big release to give VR a great first impression. The point is the user experience needs to be amazing in their eyes to justify cost. Will it price themselves out of the market? I have no idea, but it would of been nice for the opinion piece to at least acknowledge that side of the argument.
Interesting you brought up Telsa. It introduced a lot of neat capabilities, but is far too expensive and manufacturing is so limited the cost hasn't dropped like it should have over time.
General Motors just unveiled the Chevy Bolt. It's not as advanced or as powerful as what Telsa produces, but it's still extremely impressive technology and will be half the price. Telsa's inability to actually manufacturer on mass scale is leading to delays (something like two years from now for Model 3) and will cause them to fall behind in market share to GM. If that happens (as it appears it will) that would be the end of Tesla.
Oculus is to Telsa what Sony VR is to GM's Chevy Bolt. It's more powerful and technologically advanced, but Sony's VR is still impressive technologically at half the price. Sony knows how to mass produce and subsidize a product; Oculus isn't subsidizing their and is completely new at the manufacturing process (with even their parent company, Facebook, having no experience in this area as they specialize in the digital realm).
As a gaming peripheral, it looks to me like the Sony VR has the advantages you would want. And if developers realize the install base on the Oculus Rift is significantly smaller (meaning lower profits), they will stop supporting it.
I bring up Tesla because that's what Luckey used as a comparison when talking about technology, not just the product itself. He's talking about introducing VR to the public. Just like Telsa did with the electric car. Before Tesla people thought electric car was a joke. After Tesla they realized it was a reality - an expensive one, but a reality nonetheless. They even released their design blueprints for other companies (like GM) to follow and get ideas from if they so wish. They have a mission to bring the electric car to the public.
As for Tesla going out of business because of the Chevy Bolt. Tesla isn't competing with the Bolt. They're priced at the high end with 'luxury' features the bolt will not have. In addition Tesla stock right now is over $200 a share.
As for Sony VR, it may very well be good and cheap. I hope it is. That would be awesome. But they've already said that it's going to cost at least the amount of a console. So we'll have to see where their price point and quality of product actually land.
Finally, Oculus will undoubtedly release in the future other VR products that have less features at a lower price point. They will probably have a high range product (Rift,) a mid range product and a low range product (Gear VR.)
The Oculus is the Betamax of this generation. Having better specs doesn't mean people will buy it.
VR is simply like 3D glasses. A fun novelty to show off at parties. It's not a mass market product.
Gaming isn't even a good use for VR, it should be used in a museum to visit old ruins for example, not to play fast paced games which simply makes you nauseous.
Vive may be the saving grace if they can launch before the end of the year with no extras ( ala xbox one controller and 2 budget games) and still follow through with the claims of the same resolution per an eye and requirements as the rift. Definitely more viable if they can get it out and in the pricepoint of even $399 or less, it will definitely become the android OS to iOS against rift.
Vive may be the saving grace if they can launch before the end of the year with no extras ( ala xbox one controller and 2 budget games) and still follow through with the claims of the same resolution per an eye and requirements as the rift. Definitely more viable if they can get it out and in the pricepoint of even $399 or less, it will definitely become the android OS to iOS against rift.
The Vive is basically the premium VR solution at the moment. Its like when you go look at speakers its in the High End section with the special carpet. which also means, it aint goin to be cheaper
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The Oculus is the Betamax of this generation. Having better specs doesn't mean people will buy it.
VR is simply like 3D glasses. A fun novelty to show off at parties. It's not a mass market product.
Gaming isn't even a good use for VR, it should be used in a museum to visit old ruins for example, not to play fast paced games which simply makes you nauseous.
there is a lot of 3 dimensional mathematics wrong with the assessment there
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
That's the thing about the Sony VR device - it doesn't have to be as good as Oculus. It only has to be 60-70% as good and that'll be enough. Sony has a ready waiting install base of, what, 40 million now? Plus all the game studios to make content for it. And they'll probably subsidize it somewhat / bundle it with PS4 sales. It won't be $600, and if any pack is that price you'll probably be getting a console with it - no stress to worry if your PC is ok to use it either.
there are technical limitations of the PS4 which makes VR really not possible for the PS4
Complete nonsense and shows you don't know much about Sony's VR product (hint: it comes with additional processing hardware).
yes I know and that is because the PS4 basically cant juice it.
so with that subject that we both are aware of I have a hint for you.
that extra hardware.....price.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
yes I know and that is because the PS4 basically cant juice it.
so with that subject that we both are aware of I have a hint for you.
that extra hardware.....price.
I think Sony and HTC know their products are going to be close in price, if not over what Oculus is quoting. Otherwise (as I've mentioned before with no one acknowledging it on the other side) why wouldn't they come out right now and say that their product will be cheaper? Remember when Sony did that to Microsoft about sharing games? That basically put XBone in a precarious situation and only fanned the flames. I mean they could really capitalize on Oculus' controversy right now. But they haven't. hmmm. I wonder why?
yes I know and that is because the PS4 basically cant juice it.
so with that subject that we both are aware of I have a hint for you.
that extra hardware.....price.
I think Sony and HTC know their products are going to be close in price, if not over what Oculus is quoting. Otherwise (as I've mentioned before with no one acknowledging it on the other side) why wouldn't they come out right now and say that their product will be cheaper? Remember when Sony did that to Microsoft about sharing games? That basically put XBone in a precarious situation and only fanned the flames. I mean they could really capitalize on Oculus' controversy right now. But they haven't. hmmm. I wonder why?
I predict Vive and Sonys will be around $1000. There is a lot more hardware and technology involved in both projects (now that we know a bit more about Sonys project) .
The BIG question for all three is 'will games created on one work on the other' that can be a huge problem for both Vive and Sony because right now there are already a ton of games and apps for Oculus, more coming and developers have been experimenting with the Oculus platform for more than a year so many more in the works.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Vive may be the saving grace if they can launch before the end of the year with no extras ( ala xbox one controller and 2 budget games) and still follow through with the claims of the same resolution per an eye and requirements as the rift. Definitely more viable if they can get it out and in the pricepoint of even $399 or less, it will definitely become the android OS to iOS against rift.
HTC Vive looks pretty neat. It also doesn't look very user friendly to me. There's the peripherals and that cord that is dangling off of you. With all the added gear (since moving with their product seems to be a big selling point) I'm thinking that it could very well be more than the Oculus. But we'll have to wait and see with that because they refuse to say anything about their product. Which coincidentally has something to do with how secretive Oculus has been about the Rift in regards to hardware specs.
Personally I hope Vive and Rift do really well. With mobile VR hitting the low end of the market and Vive/Rift hitting the high end, I can see the tech having a bright future. Yes, I know contrary to what many people are saying in here. But hey, I experienced it for myself and I know what all the fuss is about. That's not to say that the tech isn't in its infancy yet. I can still see they have plenty of room to grow, but I'm excited about the possibilities. :awesome:
Vive may be the saving grace if they can launch before the end of the year with no extras ( ala xbox one controller and 2 budget games) and still follow through with the claims of the same resolution per an eye and requirements as the rift. Definitely more viable if they can get it out and in the pricepoint of even $399 or less, it will definitely become the android OS to iOS against rift.
HTC Vive looks pretty neat. It also doesn't look very user friendly to me. There's the peripherals and that cord that is dangling off of you. With all the added gear (since moving with their product seems to be a big selling point) I'm thinking that it could very well be more than the Oculus. But we'll have to wait and see with that because they refuse to say anything about their product. Which coincidentally has something to do with how secretive Oculus has been about the Rift in regards to hardware specs.
Personally I hope Vive and Rift do really well. With mobile VR hitting the low end of the market and Vive/Rift hitting the high end, I can see the tech having a bright future. Yes, I know contrary to what many people are saying in here. But hey, I experienced it for myself and I know what all the fuss is about. That's not to say that the tech isn't in its infancy yet. I can still see they have plenty of room to grow, but I'm excited about the possibilities. :awesome:
yes..
I think the next few years to come the big challenge will be common platform. If I am a developer can I develop for both? does it work that way? I dont know
I see the Vive as the gamers version of a Home Theater Room. High end, and needs dedicated space and given people spend TONS of money on Home Theater Rooms I think a dedicated computer just for Vive experiences is not unreasonable.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Virtual Reality coined (as a term) in 1966. And marketing pitched (at least twice a decade) ever since. Fifty years. We went from Model A to the moon in less time.
Just some perspective.
Eager to be sold the same boondoggle again? Needs an Apple logo.
Virtual Reality coined (as a term) in 1966. And marketing pitched (at least twice a decade) ever since. Fifty years. We went from Model A to the moon in less time.
Just some perspective.
Eager to be sold the same boondoggle again? Needs an Apple logo.
so has hand held communicators for that matter
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
A top end gaming monitor can easily cost $599. I consider the Occulus to be on par with the next gen of similar devices, which of course require a decent GPU to power.
Remember how much the first 4k monitors cost? Being an early adopter is always ludicrously expensive. Deal with it.
A top end gaming monitor can easily cost $599. I consider the Occulus to be on par with the next gen of similar devices, which of course require a decent GPU to power.
Remember how much the first 4k monitors cost? Being an early adopter is always ludicrously expensive. Deal with it.
And most people still don't have 4K TVs or displays...
Regardless, an expensive monitor can run all of my games, all of my apps. In many cases, image or video editing to name two, a good monitor is anywhere from justified to required, depending on what one does with it.
Whereas that 4K monitor could display any software or video I own, and greatly enhances my workflow as a graphic artist, a VR headset can't be used for much of anything I own and currently has no content I care about.
Given the current state of available content for VR headsets, trying to compare them to a plug-and-play monitor that can display arse-loads of content you already own is plain silly.
Let us look at the facts. Shall we? It sold out under two hours. That doesn't echo a product that is in trouble. If they created more inventory? They would probably sell out just as fast again. Probably several more times. There is no evidence out there to suggest the Rift is in trouble.
Beyond, "Well I can't really afford it and some people I know can't so it is doomed to fail."
I remember when the Titan was launched. It was dead nobody would buy it so claimed gamers and the press. It sold out regardless of price. Titan X came out and sold out the same way. This costs less than half depending on the model.
Imagine going back in time and telling people in 2000 cellphones would cost 600-900 dollars would sell like hot cakes and most people had one. You'd probably get shipped off the to mental hospital.
Technology has always had a high early adopters fee and while it is easy to look back at and laugh what people have paid for such new technology. The reality is that entrance free alone doesn't stop success in most cases.
Blu-ray players were massively expensive as well as early adopters of HD TVs. Those seem to be doing quite well. Remember the Rift isn't just for gaming. It will also be used for other things. Trust me it will be just fine.
I am not looking forward to the endless war of forums and gamer conversations everywhere though. In one corner the people who have bought VR and love it. The other? Those never tried it and think it sucks no matter what and the people in denial how they got sick despite their system is plenty good enough but wasn't.
I thought the Star Citizen war was bad. Maybe if I liked popcorn I'd get enjoyment out of it.
Regardless, an expensive monitor can run all of my games, all of my apps. In many cases, image or video editing to name two, a good monitor is anywhere from justified to required, depending on what one does with it.
Imagine a team of 3D modelers using this to create objects for a MMORPG.
You can export the end product you make directly for use with Unity 5 and Unreal engine, among other programs.
That's the thing about the Sony VR device - it doesn't have to be as good as Oculus. It only has to be 60-70% as good and that'll be enough. Sony has a ready waiting install base of, what, 40 million now? Plus all the game studios to make content for it. And they'll probably subsidize it somewhat / bundle it with PS4 sales. It won't be $600, and if any pack is that price you'll probably be getting a console with it - no stress to worry if your PC is ok to use it either.
there are technical limitations of the PS4 which makes VR really not possible for the PS4
720p should be possible on both the ps4 and the xbox one
That's the thing about the Sony VR device - it doesn't have to be as good as Oculus. It only has to be 60-70% as good and that'll be enough. Sony has a ready waiting install base of, what, 40 million now? Plus all the game studios to make content for it. And they'll probably subsidize it somewhat / bundle it with PS4 sales. It won't be $600, and if any pack is that price you'll probably be getting a console with it - no stress to worry if your PC is ok to use it either.
there are technical limitations of the PS4 which makes VR really not possible for the PS4
720p should be possible on both the ps4 and the xbox one
I have done 720p VR and it horrible, as a final release retail solution.
Its true what Lucky has said, the resolution requirements for VR are much higher because you face is so close to the screen.
and for the record Oculus resolution is 4x that AND at 90fps. and yes resolution does matter if it didnt nobody would have upgraded from 720p TVs in the first place
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
For pc gaming i would hate to loose mouse and keyboard. If the screen is good it would be nice to have headmounted i guess, but i'm not so sure about 3D. Personly i think most gamers will prefer to still be sitting in a chair while gaming. Were lazy like that.
That's the thing about the Sony VR device - it doesn't have to be as good as Oculus. It only has to be 60-70% as good and that'll be enough. Sony has a ready waiting install base of, what, 40 million now? Plus all the game studios to make content for it. And they'll probably subsidize it somewhat / bundle it with PS4 sales. It won't be $600, and if any pack is that price you'll probably be getting a console with it - no stress to worry if your PC is ok to use it either.
there are technical limitations of the PS4 which makes VR really not possible for the PS4
720p should be possible on both the ps4 and the xbox one
Not sure thats true, particularly as framerate is going to be very important, even maintaining a steady 60 fps is going to probably reduce the resolution down to 480p the PS4 might manage slightly higher, but not by a lot, unless it has some kind of hardware support. Price will be very important, Gear VR needs a £700 smartphone to work, Rift needs a £400+ gpu to work (£500+ probably) which means at the moment, VR = niche, ultra niche and pretty much the realm of the 'hobbyist' and even then, ones with a certain level of disposable income, average consumer doesn't fall into that category. Reports of Rift selling out their devices sounds great in theory, but only if they are selling out thousands of devices, but are they? are they even selling out hundreds of devices? All it would take, is for Sony to subsidise their headset, and chances are there would be a repeat of the VHS vs Betamax, because while Rift may be superior, it requires a lot of high end equipment in order to work, whereas Joe Blogg can just plug in his Sony VR headset into his PS4 and it works, and if its cheaper than the Rift, then it doesn't matter if its not quite as good, it will be VHS vs Betamax all over again, because the people with PC's able to utilise the Rift probably amount to only 1% of the PC userbase, this could be a battle that the Rift cannot win, its all down to how good, and how cheap the Sony VR turns out to be.
That's the thing about the Sony VR device - it doesn't have to be as good as Oculus. It only has to be 60-70% as good and that'll be enough. Sony has a ready waiting install base of, what, 40 million now? Plus all the game studios to make content for it. And they'll probably subsidize it somewhat / bundle it with PS4 sales. It won't be $600, and if any pack is that price you'll probably be getting a console with it - no stress to worry if your PC is ok to use it either.
there are technical limitations of the PS4 which makes VR really not possible for the PS4
720p should be possible on both the ps4 and the xbox one
Not sure thats true, particularly as framerate is going to be very important, even maintaining a steady 60 fps is going to probably reduce the resolution down to 480p the PS4 might manage slightly higher, but not by a lot, unless it has some kind of hardware support. Price will be very important, Gear VR needs a £700 smartphone to work, Rift needs a £400+ gpu to work (£500+ probably) which means at the moment, VR = niche, ultra niche and pretty much the realm of the 'hobbyist' and even then, ones with a certain level of disposable income, average consumer doesn't fall into that category. Reports of Rift selling out their devices sounds great in theory, but only if they are selling out thousands of devices, but are they? are they even selling out hundreds of devices? All it would take, is for Sony to subsidise their headset, and chances are there would be a repeat of the VHS vs Betamax, because while Rift may be superior, it requires a lot of high end equipment in order to work, whereas Joe Blogg can just plug in his Sony VR headset into his PS4 and it works, and if its cheaper than the Rift, then it doesn't matter if its not quite as good, it will be VHS vs Betamax all over again, because the people with PC's able to utilise the Rift probably amount to only 1% of the PC userbase, this could be a battle that the Rift cannot win, its all down to how good, and how cheap the Sony VR turns out to be.
to be completely blunt its very likely the pre-orders are more into the min. of 50,000
lets not be naive and a little forthcoming here. The GearVR innovators edition sold out on its first day, the GearVR full edition sold out on its first day. They have been doing conventions, selling DK kits for 2 years now, they know god damn good and well that the demand is over a few hundern and to be frank only someone in denial who isnt being honest with themselves and others think after being late that there big debut to open up pre-orders is actually around 100 to sell out. keep in mind and plan ahead. Oculus Will reveal total sales numbers most likely around the this time next year so plan on what your reaction will be, because you know full well these are selling well
$600 is $200 more than I spend on a Video Card just about once every 3 years...so lets just stop this sillyness.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
As for Tesla going out of business because of the Chevy Bolt. Tesla isn't competing with the Bolt. They're priced at the high end with 'luxury' features the bolt will not have. In addition Tesla stock right now is over $200 a share.
As for Sony VR, it may very well be good and cheap. I hope it is. That would be awesome. But they've already said that it's going to cost at least the amount of a console. So we'll have to see where their price point and quality of product actually land.
Finally, Oculus will undoubtedly release in the future other VR products that have less features at a lower price point. They will probably have a high range product (Rift,) a mid range product and a low range product (Gear VR.)
Gaming isn't even a good use for VR, it should be used in a museum to visit old ruins for example, not to play fast paced games which simply makes you nauseous.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
there is a lot of 3 dimensional mathematics wrong with the assessment there
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
yes I know and that is because the PS4 basically cant juice it.
so with that subject that we both are aware of I have a hint for you.
that extra hardware.....price.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
The BIG question for all three is 'will games created on one work on the other' that can be a huge problem for both Vive and Sony because right now there are already a ton of games and apps for Oculus, more coming and developers have been experimenting with the Oculus platform for more than a year so many more in the works.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
HTC Vive looks pretty neat. It also doesn't look very user friendly to me. There's the peripherals and that cord that is dangling off of you. With all the added gear (since moving with their product seems to be a big selling point) I'm thinking that it could very well be more than the Oculus. But we'll have to wait and see with that because they refuse to say anything about their product. Which coincidentally has something to do with how secretive Oculus has been about the Rift in regards to hardware specs.
Personally I hope Vive and Rift do really well. With mobile VR hitting the low end of the market and Vive/Rift hitting the high end, I can see the tech having a bright future. Yes, I know contrary to what many people are saying in here. But hey, I experienced it for myself and I know what all the fuss is about. That's not to say that the tech isn't in its infancy yet. I can still see they have plenty of room to grow, but I'm excited about the possibilities. :awesome:
I think the next few years to come the big challenge will be common platform. If I am a developer can I develop for both? does it work that way? I dont know
I see the Vive as the gamers version of a Home Theater Room. High end, and needs dedicated space and given people spend TONS of money on Home Theater Rooms I think a dedicated computer just for Vive experiences is not unreasonable.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Just some perspective.
Eager to be sold the same boondoggle again? Needs an Apple logo.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Remember how much the first 4k monitors cost? Being an early adopter is always ludicrously expensive. Deal with it.
Regardless, an expensive monitor can run all of my games, all of my apps. In many cases, image or video editing to name two, a good monitor is anywhere from justified to required, depending on what one does with it.
Whereas that 4K monitor could display any software or video I own, and greatly enhances my workflow as a graphic artist, a VR headset can't be used for much of anything I own and currently has no content I care about.
Given the current state of available content for VR headsets, trying to compare them to a plug-and-play monitor that can display arse-loads of content you already own is plain silly.
Beyond, "Well I can't really afford it and some people I know can't so it is doomed to fail."
I remember when the Titan was launched. It was dead nobody would buy it so claimed gamers and the press. It sold out regardless of price. Titan X came out and sold out the same way. This costs less than half depending on the model.
Imagine going back in time and telling people in 2000 cellphones would cost 600-900 dollars would sell like hot cakes and most people had one. You'd probably get shipped off the to mental hospital.
Technology has always had a high early adopters fee and while it is easy to look back at and laugh what people have paid for such new technology. The reality is that entrance free alone doesn't stop success in most cases.
Blu-ray players were massively expensive as well as early adopters of HD TVs. Those seem to be doing quite well. Remember the Rift isn't just for gaming. It will also be used for other things. Trust me it will be just fine.
I am not looking forward to the endless war of forums and gamer conversations everywhere though. In one corner the people who have bought VR and love it. The other? Those never tried it and think it sucks no matter what and the people in denial how they got sick despite their system is plenty good enough but wasn't.
I thought the Star Citizen war was bad. Maybe if I liked popcorn I'd get enjoyment out of it.
You can export the end product you make directly for use with Unity 5 and Unreal engine, among other programs.
Here's a clip from the 1980's, headset is getting smaller but still too big today:
computer technology are not like refrigerators, I can send you that message on my smart phone if its helps
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Its true what Lucky has said, the resolution requirements for VR are much higher because you face is so close to the screen.
and for the record Oculus resolution is 4x that AND at 90fps. and yes resolution does matter if it didnt nobody would have upgraded from 720p TVs in the first place
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Price will be very important, Gear VR needs a £700 smartphone to work, Rift needs a £400+ gpu to work (£500+ probably) which means at the moment, VR = niche, ultra niche and pretty much the realm of the 'hobbyist' and even then, ones with a certain level of disposable income, average consumer doesn't fall into that category.
Reports of Rift selling out their devices sounds great in theory, but only if they are selling out thousands of devices, but are they? are they even selling out hundreds of devices?
All it would take, is for Sony to subsidise their headset, and chances are there would be a repeat of the VHS vs Betamax, because while Rift may be superior, it requires a lot of high end equipment in order to work, whereas Joe Blogg can just plug in his Sony VR headset into his PS4 and it works, and if its cheaper than the Rift, then it doesn't matter if its not quite as good, it will be VHS vs Betamax all over again, because the people with PC's able to utilise the Rift probably amount to only 1% of the PC userbase, this could be a battle that the Rift cannot win, its all down to how good, and how cheap the Sony VR turns out to be.
lets not be naive and a little forthcoming here. The GearVR innovators edition sold out on its first day, the GearVR full edition sold out on its first day. They have been doing conventions, selling DK kits for 2 years now, they know god damn good and well that the demand is over a few hundern and to be frank only someone in denial who isnt being honest with themselves and others think after being late that there big debut to open up pre-orders is actually around 100 to sell out. keep in mind and plan ahead. Oculus Will reveal total sales numbers most likely around the this time next year so plan on what your reaction will be, because you know full well these are selling well
$600 is $200 more than I spend on a Video Card just about once every 3 years...so lets just stop this sillyness.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me