BDO: Rockpapershotgun Article

Azaron_Nightblade

It makes for an interesting read IMO. I like the sound of having to pry info from the NPCs, since it's very RPGy, which is an element that's missing in so many MMOs these days.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/02/03/black-desert-online-preview/#more-345205

advokat666

The question is what is exactly PvE ? Many players only relate PvE to dungeons, raids etc. I play BDO in KR for quite a time now and the only thing i do is crafting and trading because i like that. PvP does not interest me a bit. BDO has imo a lot to offer besides PvP. But in general at least in KR BDO is so unbelievable gear dependent on one and so fucking p2w on the other hand that i am really curious how the western version will handle that. Only +15 upgradable gear and no selling of cash shop items in the beginning OK but afaik as i know they did not rule that out completely in the long run.

stayontarget

It's all about your definition of pve.  Like advokat666 said above, BDO has a lot to offer for $30 bucks but it depends on your definition of it.

ChromeBallz

DMKano said:

The problem with PvE stuff in a PvP centric end game is - is that it diminishes the purpose of PvE features after you're max level.

This is not an exclusive BDO problem, lots of other MMOs that devolve into PvP end game have the same issue - PvE aspects get sort of forgotten in the end because they are not the focus anymore.

The E stands for Environment, not 'monsters' specifically. Grinding dungeons, raids or just monsters is not the entire scope and definition of the term.

BDO offers a lot to do outside of PvP, with progression along multiple other skills (the life skills foremost). There's also nodes to unlock, knowledge to gain, contribution points and energy to gain and other things to discover... If you only see pure PvP or mob grinding at 50+, you may be wearing blinders

That's what the article touches upon, and what i rather like about the game. There is no rush to level to 50 whatsoever and it offers a lot to do besides levelling (though, technically you still level, just not your combat level). The freedom and sense of calm that the game exudes about progression is what drew me into it, framed by a cohesive game world - Not the schizophrenic dotting of random biomes across a random world most other games offer. It feels like a place you want to be in, and not a level you have to finish to progress.

Thebeasttt

Every MMORPG seems to have this identity crisis problem. Pick PvE or PvP and make it great instead of mediocre at both. If league of legends tried to have balanced PvE it would ruin the entire game, so why does every company think they need both to succeed? It's ludicrous.

YashaX

Its good to see quite a few other people seem to have a similar view on the game as I do- that BDO is actually quite rich in pve, and in a refreshing sandboxy kind of way instead of endless dungeon runs and token grinding.

I hope the pvp is good, but it seems to be an unbalanced gear-grinder in terms of pvp, so that doesn't seem to be the main attraction or what differentiates the game from other mmos. Rather what sets it apart is that beautiful immersive world, deep systems involving exploration, world building, trade, npc relations, farming, housing etc, along with an exciting combat system.

I'll still have to play it to see if all the candy actually tastes good, but on paper it looks the bomb.

Jonas_SG

ChromeBallz said:

DMKano said:

The problem with PvE stuff in a PvP centric end game is - is that it diminishes the purpose of PvE features after you're max level.

This is not an exclusive BDO problem, lots of other MMOs that devolve into PvP end game have the same issue - PvE aspects get sort of forgotten in the end because they are not the focus anymore.

The E stands for Environment, not 'monsters' specifically. Grinding dungeons, raids or just monsters is not the entire scope and definition of the term.

BDO offers a lot to do outside of PvP, with progression along multiple other skills (the life skills foremost). There's also nodes to unlock, knowledge to gain, contribution points and energy to gain and other things to discover... If you only see pure PvP or mob grinding at 50+, you may be wearing blinders

That's what the article touches upon, and what i rather like about the game. There is no rush to level to 50 whatsoever and it offers a lot to do besides levelling (though, technically you still level, just not your combat level). The freedom and sense of calm that the game exudes about progression is what drew me into it, framed by a cohesive game world - Not the schizophrenic dotting of random biomes across a random world most other games offer. It feels like a place you want to be in, and not a level you have to finish to progress.

You are the one that is blind. Open your eyes and see that everything you mentioned is just a filler. It provides no challenge what so ever, it's just there to keep you occupied, while the game steals your time.

There is no rush to 50? In Black Desert? Really? Sounds like you didn't play this game enough to truly understand it. Or maybe you don't want to understand it. If you just want to avoide PvP and all the PvP content that this game has to offer, than by all means, play your garden, ride your horses, talk to NPC all day long.

Jonas_SG

YashaX said:

Its good to see quite a few other people seem to have a similar view on the game as I do- that BDO is actually quite rich in pve, and in a refreshing sandboxy kind of way instead of endless dungeon runs and token grinding.

I hope the pvp is good, but it seems to be an unbalanced gear-grinder in terms of pvp, so that doesn't seem to be the main attraction or what differentiates the game from other mmos. Rather what sets it apart is that beautiful immersive world, deep systems involving exploration, world building, trade, npc relations, farming, housing etc, along with an exciting combat system.

I'll still have to play it to see if all the candy actually tastes good, but on paper it looks the bomb.

Oh don't worry, grinding token, you will be doing a lot in Black Desert Online, it's just instead of killing few dozen mobs and few bosses in a Dungeon - that might or might not be challenging, depending on the Developers - you will be killing thousands of effortless mobs in the Open world of Black Desert.

All you see right now is the cover. Once you have played it for a few month you will see the real content of this game - grind grind grind grind grind grind grind grind grind .... and more grind each expansion.

Jonas_SG

Rhoklaw said:

 

Isn't that the point of PvE? Provide something for those of us who don't want to PvP all day? Me personally, I like about 75% PvE and 25% PvP. In ArcheAge, I spent way more time tending to my gardens and animals or fishing than I did taking guild trade runs to the island. So the point is, not every player is the same in what they like about MMO's, but the fact of the matter is, there are far more PvE players in MMORPGs than PvP players. If that weren't true, don't you think we'd see more PvP focused MMO's doing better than PvE focused MMO's?

If you want to avoid PvP, than might as well focus on RP, than all your daily activities in the game will have some meaning.

Dragonsfire9

Jonas_SG said:

Rhoklaw said:

 

Isn't that the point of PvE? Provide something for those of us who don't want to PvP all day? Me personally, I like about 75% PvE and 25% PvP. In ArcheAge, I spent way more time tending to my gardens and animals or fishing than I did taking guild trade runs to the island. So the point is, not every player is the same in what they like about MMO's, but the fact of the matter is, there are far more PvE players in MMORPGs than PvP players. If that weren't true, don't you think we'd see more PvP focused MMO's doing better than PvE focused MMO's?

If you want to avoid PvP, than might as well focus on RP, than all your daily activities in the game will have some meaning.

If you want to avoid pve and roleplay why don't you just play shooter games or even survival games?  BDO is a MMORPG and it has lots of things to keep people entertained.  If you are focused on only one aspect of the game and appear to despise anything not pvp related I question why you are even bothering with this particular game.

Divyne

Jonas, it just sounds like you really dont like the game and are trying to sway people to your opinion.

Jerry-Boyle

If you want dungeons in Black Desert, wait until Valenica update part 2 to arrive in NA/EU(Should be a few months).  That'll bring some open world dungeons to play around in but it's still going to be relatively easy.  

They need to figure out challenging mechanics for the mobs/bosses in these dungeons; hopefully that's seen in the next ones they'll add.  I hope to never see instanced dungeons in this game.

Sovrath

Torval said:

That sounds good, but I've seen it described like Aion and ArcheAge in that level capped areas are pvp flagged. Is that true? Can I never flag for pvp, go anywhere, and just farm mobs, craft, and do other non-pvp activities? Or will I be corralled off in some small area where there are no good materials or drops? How does that work?

I don't believe so. It is my understanding that once you reach a certain level you are flagged for pvp. Maybe that's incorrect but that is my understanding.

Jonas_SG

Dragonsfire9 said:

If you want to avoid pve and roleplay why don't you just play shooter games or even survival games?  BDO is a MMORPG and it has lots of things to keep people entertained.  If you are focused on only one aspect of the game and appear to despise anything not pvp related I question why you are even bothering with this particular game.

So you are saying this is a PvE game and if i want to PvP i should go look for a different game?

Thanks for a good laugh.

Jonas_SG

Jerry-Boyle said:

If you want dungeons in Black Desert, wait until Valenica update part 2 to arrive in NA/EU(Should be a few months).  That'll bring some open world dungeons to play around in but it's still going to be relatively easy.  

They need to figure out challenging mechanics for the mobs/bosses in these dungeons; hopefully that's seen in the next ones they'll add.  I hope to never see instanced dungeons in this game.

By the time it arrives here, it will be nurfed to the ground, like always.

I remember how Media began in Korea. Mobs that would 2-shot you - looked challenging. Saw same release of Media in Russian region - nurfed to the ground.

This game has no challenge. Even in PvP is just who ever got the best gear wins by default.

Iselin

I like this a lot and reminds me a bit of what was promised for EQN:

What I really enjoy is that the point of all of this is that characters in Black Desert aren’t always willing to spill all their secrets to you just because you’re the hero, and they feel far more fleshed out than the window dressing NPCs you’ll see in other games. Many of the quests in the game can only be unlocked once you’ve earned the respect of the quest giver. Beyond that, characters might also have their own knowledge to share, a unique special item they’d be willing to loan you, or might even allow you to purchase rare goods once they like you enough.

And I agree with @Rhoklaw  above: NPC AI has been neglected far too long as if some developer decided a long time ago that players need to have the same exact interaction with NPCs or they'll whine if they get an interaction that isn't quite as good as the one someone else got, and every developer after that took it as gospel and never looked back.

ElRenmazuo

Torval said:

Sovrath said:

Torval said:

That sounds good, but I've seen it described like Aion and ArcheAge in that level capped areas are pvp flagged. Is that true? Can I never flag for pvp, go anywhere, and just farm mobs, craft, and do other non-pvp activities? Or will I be corralled off in some small area where there are no good materials or drops? How does that work?

I don't believe so. It is my understanding that once you reach a certain level you are flagged for pvp. Maybe that's incorrect but that is my understanding.

That's what I thought. I keep hearing conflicting signals. As much as the pve part of the game is interesting I just don't want to do pvp anymore, at least not in an mmo. Fighting with other players over a limited resource pool is just not how I want to spend my mmo time and effort.

This guy says you have to flag your self for you and others to hit each other @7:52 But that might be changed at release.  But you can attack non-flagged but you get penalty for it.

Iselin

Aori said:

Iselin said:

I like this a lot and reminds me a bit of what was promised for EQN:

What I really enjoy is that the point of all of this is that characters in Black Desert aren’t always willing to spill all their secrets to you just because you’re the hero, and they feel far more fleshed out than the window dressing NPCs you’ll see in other games. Many of the quests in the game can only be unlocked once you’ve earned the respect of the quest giver. Beyond that, characters might also have their own knowledge to share, a unique special item they’d be willing to loan you, or might even allow you to purchase rare goods once they like you enough.

And I agree with @Rhoklaw  above: NPC AI has been neglected far too long as if some developer decided a long time ago that players need to have the same exact interaction with NPCs or they'll whine if they get an interaction that isn't quite as good as the one someone else got, and every developer after that took it as gospel and never looked back.

In regards to AI, it simply doesn't exist how we'd like. Minions will always be fodder. 

Though I've always advocated for an alternate to the AI issue. RNG elites and bosses at least in the open world, I know people would have fits in an instanced environment.

So a boss/elite would randomly spawn from a variety of zone archetypes with a variety of set skills based around whichever archetype is spawn. Phase 1 and 2 could be the same for a Skeletal boss one day but phase 3 could be something completely different. If you wipe, the boss remains the same but the skillset can shuffle.

I honestly think it would be a better take on open world encounters. I know it won't ever happen in instanced encounters.

Yeah, but that's a different type of AI issue: mob encounter or fight AI. I don't think BDO is raising the bar in this respect but at least they're spicing-up the NPC interaction a bit.

What I would like to see is a more realistic mob AI spawning and migration system where they appear to have enough intelligence to act in their own best interest: lots of players are farming us in this area? well shit, we better move to the hills. No one is bothering us here and our numbers are growing? I wonder what's in that village over there we could use if we raid them. Many MMOs in development are flirting with this idea but I don't know of any that have released with these AI improvements yet.

Instead we currently have the very same mobs with the very same skills recycled in the very same spot over and over again.

tet666

There is no AI in this game combat is very similar to Dynasty warriors style games you simple mow down group after group of them or go from mob to mob they don't react much from what i have seen there was no challenge at all it was some the worst pve i have seen in a game so far.
Open world Bosses are similiar just with a shiton of HP the pve is almost embarasing in this game.
If you are not in to (kinda unbalanced) open world pvp or like to play mini games that simulate stuff like hunting, fishing or mining then i don't see the point in playing this game there is no traditional pve, pvp or endgame content and it's not a real sandbox game either.
At least i hope you like mindlessly grinding mobs cause you will be doing that a lot.

YashaX

Jonas_SG said:

YashaX said:

Its good to see quite a few other people seem to have a similar view on the game as I do- that BDO is actually quite rich in pve, and in a refreshing sandboxy kind of way instead of endless dungeon runs and token grinding.

I hope the pvp is good, but it seems to be an unbalanced gear-grinder in terms of pvp, so that doesn't seem to be the main attraction or what differentiates the game from other mmos. Rather what sets it apart is that beautiful immersive world, deep systems involving exploration, world building, trade, npc relations, farming, housing etc, along with an exciting combat system.

I'll still have to play it to see if all the candy actually tastes good, but on paper it looks the bomb.

Oh don't worry, grinding token, you will be doing a lot in Black Desert Online, it's just instead of killing few dozen mobs and few bosses in a Dungeon - that might or might not be challenging, depending on the Developers - you will be killing thousands of effortless mobs in the Open world of Black Desert.

All you see right now is the cover. Once you have played it for a few month you will see the real content of this game - grind grind grind grind grind grind grind grind grind .... and more grind each expansion.

Oh I must have the wrong game then, I thought BDO had trade, crafting, farming, exploration, worldbuilding through developing relations with NPCs, fishing, horse taming/breeding, and a deep housing system among other things ...

kitarad

This is what really entices me about this game. All the other stuff besides fighting and PvP one can engage in. I am truly interested but kind of a coward where PvP is concerned. I would love to buy and play this game but I'm afraid of getting ganked while I am doing all the other things and I am thus not going to play. I know that is dumb of me but I would hate for my hard work to be simply taken from me. I don't think I'm cut out for those harsh games where people come and rob and kill me .

YashaX

ElRenmazuo said:

Torval said:

Sovrath said:

Torval said:

That sounds good, but I've seen it described like Aion and ArcheAge in that level capped areas are pvp flagged. Is that true? Can I never flag for pvp, go anywhere, and just farm mobs, craft, and do other non-pvp activities? Or will I be corralled off in some small area where there are no good materials or drops? How does that work?

I don't believe so. It is my understanding that once you reach a certain level you are flagged for pvp. Maybe that's incorrect but that is my understanding.

That's what I thought. I keep hearing conflicting signals. As much as the pve part of the game is interesting I just don't want to do pvp anymore, at least not in an mmo. Fighting with other players over a limited resource pool is just not how I want to spend my mmo time and effort.

This guy says you have to flag your self for you and others to hit each other @7:52 But that might be changed at release.  But you can attack non-flagged but you get penalty for it.

I like the way the Korean version has implemented pvp as is, it just means its not a kind of gank anyone/anytime OWpvp game, and it still seems to have plenty of options for pvp anyway.

Sovrath

Rhoklaw said:

I've also seen videos of 2 players running around randomly killing people with trade packs, knowing their Karma was being ruined. They made it sound like removing Karma from mob grinding wasn't all that bad, except I was told if you reach rock bottom on Karma, more than likely you will lose some gear if killed. I also noticed in their video that players they griefed didn't always drop something. So as far as I can tell, being killed isn't all that detrimental where killing can be. Assuming someone can track you down and take you out. Only thing is, escaping combat in this game seems to be rather easy.

There are always going to be people who are happy with being "rogue". In truth that's kind of how it should be for an open pvp world.

Remember, "you can fight back".

In Tera I had players attack me all the time only to realize they were going to lose. Not to say that I'm some bad ass pvp player but there are a lot of people out there who think that they can terrorize you. Don't take it.

Jonas_SG

YashaX said:

Jonas_SG said:

YashaX said:

Its good to see quite a few other people seem to have a similar view on the game as I do- that BDO is actually quite rich in pve, and in a refreshing sandboxy kind of way instead of endless dungeon runs and token grinding.

I hope the pvp is good, but it seems to be an unbalanced gear-grinder in terms of pvp, so that doesn't seem to be the main attraction or what differentiates the game from other mmos. Rather what sets it apart is that beautiful immersive world, deep systems involving exploration, world building, trade, npc relations, farming, housing etc, along with an exciting combat system.

I'll still have to play it to see if all the candy actually tastes good, but on paper it looks the bomb.

Oh don't worry, grinding token, you will be doing a lot in Black Desert Online, it's just instead of killing few dozen mobs and few bosses in a Dungeon - that might or might not be challenging, depending on the Developers - you will be killing thousands of effortless mobs in the Open world of Black Desert.

All you see right now is the cover. Once you have played it for a few month you will see the real content of this game - grind grind grind grind grind grind grind grind grind .... and more grind each expansion.

Oh I must have the wrong game then, I thought BDO had trade, crafting, farming, exploration, worldbuilding through developing relations with NPCs, fishing, horse taming/breeding, and a deep housing system among other things ...

I got bored of this activities a week later, since they bring no challenge and just reward.

Jacobin

Its kind of strange that people consider crafting and gathering as compelling content. Its just repeating the same simple tasks over and over again with no effort required until you run out of your daily energy ration.

The only point is to get money to spend on RNG gear upgrades in the crafting casino for PvP. If you don't pvp then why even bother? Its not like you can do anything that actually affects the world.

simsalabim77

Jacobin said:

Its kind of strange that people consider crafting and gathering as compelling content. Its just repeating the same simple tasks over and over again with no effort required until you run out of your daily energy ration.

The only point is to get money to spend on RNG gear upgrades in the crafting casino for PvP. If you don't pvp then why even bother? Its not like you can do anything that actually affects the world.

I never understood why people think "good" crafting is a selling point in themeparks. There's no backbone to make crafting interesting. Press buttons, make an item. The only game that I can think of where crafting actually has an effect on the game is EVE because the economy is a huge part of the game, and everything to do with crafting is a lot more in-depth.