Is the days of tab targeting mmos over? I personally love that style of mmo and am hoping the next major mmo has that feature. Is this a possible feature for future games, or have we just moved past it?
Hmm .. its still the most used targeting system in MMORPgs by far , its not even close ..... but yea .. dead lmao ..aint that rich
There's nothing more frustrating than wielding a giant two-handed sword, but nope, I can only hit one of the 3,000 goblins standing in front of me because that's the one I targeted.
I prefer Age of Conan's melee system over everything else. You get within weapon range of an enemy, start a combo, perform the directional attacks to cause the combo to initiate and anything that your weapon can reach gets hit.
You can target with tab in order to see what they're casting, or where their shields are placed, but it has nothing to do with where your attacks are directed. You're always going to want to target powerful enemies, of course, but when you run into a cave with a bunch of minions, just get in them and start chopping heads off.
Call me old, but I prefer tab-targeting combat over action combat.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
I hate EQ/EQ2 combat speed these days. The animations are way too slow. SWTOR isn't that bad though. Saying that, I used to prefer action games (and I still think NWN Online has awesome combat), but since GW2 screwed over my left wrist (because of jump/dodging AOEs), I can't play them for long anymore.
That means I recently turned to less twitchy gameplay in my games and I'm really starting to prefer my RPGs to use turn-based combat (or active turn-based which would probably fit a multiplayer game better). Too bad so few MMORPGs use that.
I hope to god not because what i am seeing in every single game is enough to make me vomit.
If i see another game utilizing non stop circle strafing with somersaults i am going to their offices with truck loads of McDonalds and making them eat it all,then closing down the restrooms for maintenance. :pleased:
These are video games,you are never going to recreate realism,not until REAL VR is possible and that is not until after i am dead.Just keep it relaxing ,we are only trying to mimic what we would do in real life,well guess what i wouldn't need to press a keypad to tell me to aim at something,my brain auto instinctively knows that.
If anything ,these manual aim systems are anything but accurate simulations.I see myself and others missing targets at point blank,i can tell you that is not happening but once every 200-1000x.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The time of tab targeting combat may seem to be over not because it is inferior to action combat. Rather it is because there hasn't been a good game with tab targeting combat in a while.
I personally do not care much about tab targeting vs action combat because they both tax the player in different ways. I have greatly enjoyed tab targeting MMOs in the past (Aion comes to mind), and I would certainly play one that is good in the future.
Remind me what good action combat game is out there that beats the tab targeting ones? I sure can not find it.
I hope to god not because what i am seeing in every single game is enough to make me vomit.
If i see another game utilizing non stop circle strafing with somersaults i am going to their offices with truck loads of McDonalds and making them eat it all,then closing down the restrooms for maintenance. :pleased:
These are video games,you are never going to recreate realism,not until REAL VR is possible and that is not until after i am dead.Just keep it relaxing ,we are only trying to mimic what we would do in real life,well guess what i wouldn't need to press a keypad to tell me to aim at something,my brain auto instinctively knows that.
If anything ,these manual aim systems are anything but accurate simulations.I see myself and others missing targets at point blank,i can tell you that is not happening but once every 200-1000x.
Think about the bright side, circle strafing somersault in VR is going to cause anyone to vomit...you won't need that truck loads of McDonalds anymore.
i hope so .. there are plenty of combat system more fun to me.
D3 type action combat ACS type stealth combat Fallout 4 type shooter combat The Division type shooter + cover combat
Don't let crappy developers fool you,yo u can accomplish almost anything with tab targeting and then some that you cannot with manual aim. Part of the equation is map design,not one single mmorpg has a clue or willing to put in effort to make quality maps,so why even bother with manual aiming if you don't have z-axis or multiple firing mechanisms?
It is to bad most of the gaming generation came about after many of the best games already created ideas.Everyone should have played Quake and Unreal to understand what true aiming and pvp is about.When i watch these CS GO games i just sigh and lol,that is not pvp that is garbage.Most of the time it is free running with very little thought,watch a top level Q or UT game and you will quickly notice how Z-axis affects aiming and combat in general.
RPG"s however are a whoel different animal,fps are mostly abotut aim and map control movement,rpg's are about several mechanics.You CANNOT EVER smoothly operate several mechanics unless you have tab targeting/auto aim,well not unless you have 3-4 hands which nobody has.This is all about mixing and matching,a big mistake develoeprs are doing.RPG's belong in rpg's not in FPS's and vice versa,trying to mix them is lieke mixing PVE and pvp it just does not work as well,you are making a game worse.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
With "action" combat you can gain a massive advantage by cheating (aimbot). With tab targeting much less. Also MMOs tend to lag more than FPS' and mouse aiming doesn't work too well in high latency environments.
With "action" combat you can gain a massive advantage by cheating (aimbot). With tab targeting much less. Also MMOs tend to lag more than FPS' and mouse aiming doesn't work too well in high latency environments.
For MMOs I'd pick tab over mouse any day.
Apparently you don't know what it means to write bots to fight for you, exploit stat systems, or intercept packets to tamper with the info the server is getting. The more numbers driving a system the more things there are to attack/hack.
I remember a few things from DAoC quite ell. Had a friend that coded a combat program that would perfectly execute combat sequences for him. Then there were other ones that would rip apart the game assets and provide different means of looking at the game, like turning things into wire-frames to see where the stealthers and enemy troops are. The most clever ones were those that figured out what commands and stats they could affect by sending the servers modified packets.
"But that data is more encrypted/secure now" as a counterpoint just addresses that the same can be said for action combat. And yet we still have plenty of hackers.
That's simply going to be a problem no matter what type of game you play online.
EDIT: Also worth noting that , while an aimbot can work with most systems, it isn't that outstanding with games that utilize bullet physics rather than raycast/hitscan (sadly a lot of games and especially action MMOs use hitscan).
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
As many have pointed out, tab-targeting usually makes for slower-paced game play and longer sessions.
Modern mainstream gaming is leaning strongly toward faster, action-oriented play in shorter play sessions. The action combat design usually requires fewer skill-bar slots as opposed to tab-targeting.
It's no coincidence that action-combat translates well to console audiences. The bigger the market for a single game design, the greater the profits.
There's nothing more frustrating than wielding a giant two-handed sword, but nope, I can only hit one of the 3,000 goblins standing in front of me because that's the one I targeted.
I don't care how big your giant two handed sword is you are still only going to hit one thing per swing, at least if you are making even a casual attempt at realism. Oh and by the way those things where rarely used in battle, and when used it was to counter polearms and the like by stabbing not slashing.
There's nothing more frustrating than wielding a giant two-handed sword, but nope, I can only hit one of the 3,000 goblins standing in front of me because that's the one I targeted.
I don't care how big your giant two handed sword is you are still only going to hit one thing per swing, at least if you are making even a casual attempt at realism. Oh and by the way those things where rarely used in battle, and when used it was to counter polearms and the like by stabbing not slashing.
Wellll shit son, if we're going for realism in these games then how come I have to kill 20 foxes to get a fox tail to drop for a quest? Do only 1 in 20 foxes have tails?
Pray tell, where can I learn to shoot lightening bolts from my face into a giant rock troll? I can't even find a rock troll in the woods behind my house let alone know where to begin shooting lightening from my face.
I could do this all day, but needless to say, I want my giant sword to hit lots of things because it's a game and bigger means more killy and more stabby. So stop forcing me to target one thing and let me swing my stupidly large sword around my head like a helicopter chainsaw of death.
There's nothing more frustrating than wielding a giant two-handed sword, but nope, I can only hit one of the 3,000 goblins standing in front of me because that's the one I targeted.
I don't care how big your giant two handed sword is you are still only going to hit one thing per swing, at least if you are making even a casual attempt at realism. Oh and by the way those things where rarely used in battle, and when used it was to counter polearms and the like by stabbing not slashing.
Wellll shit son, if we're going for realism in these games then how come I have to kill 20 foxes to get a fox tail to drop for a quest? Do only 1 in 20 foxes have tails?
Pray tell, where can I learn to shoot lightening bolts from my face into a giant rock troll? I can't even find a rock troll in the woods behind my house let alone know where to begin shooting lightening from my face.
I could do this all day, but needless to say, I want my giant sword to hit lots of things because it's a game and bigger means more killy and more stabby. So stop forcing me to target one thing and let me swing my stupidly large sword around my head like a helicopter chainsaw of death.
Now we both know it's up to the developers and not you or I, but really why would you want a 'helicopter chainsaw of death' in a fantasy game? After all in most games other swords work pretty much like a sword.
As to your straw men I will leave them there for the amusement of others.
There's nothing more frustrating than wielding a giant two-handed sword, but nope, I can only hit one of the 3,000 goblins standing in front of me because that's the one I targeted.
I don't care how big your giant two handed sword is you are still only going to hit one thing per swing, at least if you are making even a casual attempt at realism. Oh and by the way those things where rarely used in battle, and when used it was to counter polearms and the like by stabbing not slashing.
Wellll shit son, if we're going for realism in these games then how come I have to kill 20 foxes to get a fox tail to drop for a quest? Do only 1 in 20 foxes have tails?
Pray tell, where can I learn to shoot lightening bolts from my face into a giant rock troll? I can't even find a rock troll in the woods behind my house let alone know where to begin shooting lightening from my face.
I could do this all day, but needless to say, I want my giant sword to hit lots of things because it's a game and bigger means more killy and more stabby. So stop forcing me to target one thing and let me swing my stupidly large sword around my head like a helicopter chainsaw of death.
Now we both know it's up to the developers and not you or I, but really why would you want a 'helicopter chainsaw of death' in a fantasy game? After all in most games other swords work pretty much like a sword.
Because hyperbole is entirely lost on you and I find it amusing.
As many have pointed out, tab-targeting usually makes for slower-paced game play and longer sessions.
Modern mainstream gaming is leaning strongly toward faster, action-oriented play in shorter play sessions. The action combat design usually requires fewer skill-bar slots as opposed to tab-targeting.
It's no coincidence that action-combat translates well to console audiences. The bigger the market for a single game design, the greater the profits.
Except the greater profits are obviously NOT there, the AAA MMORPG is mostly dead now.
One issue is that companies are putting all their eggs in the combat basket, when it might actually be one of the least important things. Combat, of any system, gets stale after a while. And if you get combat fatigue, there better be other stuff to keep you invested. Modern games fail at that 'other stuff'.
The most successful game with "modern" combat is GW2 and people rarely rave about GW2's combat. FFXIV is one of the poorer examples of tab target combat and its doing quite well. Again, no one raves about its combat (and rightfully so).
Comments
There's nothing more frustrating than wielding a giant two-handed sword, but nope, I can only hit one of the 3,000 goblins standing in front of me because that's the one I targeted.
I prefer Age of Conan's melee system over everything else. You get within weapon range of an enemy, start a combo, perform the directional attacks to cause the combo to initiate and anything that your weapon can reach gets hit.
You can target with tab in order to see what they're casting, or where their shields are placed, but it has nothing to do with where your attacks are directed. You're always going to want to target powerful enemies, of course, but when you run into a cave with a bunch of minions, just get in them and start chopping heads off.
The last true tab-target only game I can think of is Rift so I would say yes.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
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That means I recently turned to less twitchy gameplay in my games and I'm really starting to prefer my RPGs to use turn-based combat (or active turn-based which would probably fit a multiplayer game better). Too bad so few MMORPGs use that.
If i see another game utilizing non stop circle strafing with somersaults i am going to their offices with truck loads of McDonalds and making them eat it all,then closing down the restrooms for maintenance. :pleased:
These are video games,you are never going to recreate realism,not until REAL VR is possible and that is not until after i am dead.Just keep it relaxing ,we are only trying to mimic what we would do in real life,well guess what i wouldn't need to press a keypad to tell me to aim at something,my brain auto instinctively knows that.
If anything ,these manual aim systems are anything but accurate simulations.I see myself and others missing targets at point blank,i can tell you that is not happening but once every 200-1000x.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
D3 type action combat
ACS type stealth combat
Fallout 4 type shooter combat
The Division type shooter + cover combat
Part of the equation is map design,not one single mmorpg has a clue or willing to put in effort to make quality maps,so why even bother with manual aiming if you don't have z-axis or multiple firing mechanisms?
It is to bad most of the gaming generation came about after many of the best games already created ideas.Everyone should have played Quake and Unreal to understand what true aiming and pvp is about.When i watch these CS GO games i just sigh and lol,that is not pvp that is garbage.Most of the time it is free running with very little thought,watch a top level Q or UT game and you will quickly notice how Z-axis affects aiming and combat in general.
RPG"s however are a whoel different animal,fps are mostly abotut aim and map control movement,rpg's are about several mechanics.You CANNOT EVER smoothly operate several mechanics unless you have tab targeting/auto aim,well not unless you have 3-4 hands which nobody has.This is all about mixing and matching,a big mistake develoeprs are doing.RPG's belong in rpg's not in FPS's and vice versa,trying to mix them is lieke mixing PVE and pvp it just does not work as well,you are making a game worse.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Also MMOs tend to lag more than FPS' and mouse aiming doesn't work too well in high latency environments.
For MMOs I'd pick tab over mouse any day.
I remember a few things from DAoC quite ell. Had a friend that coded a combat program that would perfectly execute combat sequences for him. Then there were other ones that would rip apart the game assets and provide different means of looking at the game, like turning things into wire-frames to see where the stealthers and enemy troops are. The most clever ones were those that figured out what commands and stats they could affect by sending the servers modified packets.
"But that data is more encrypted/secure now" as a counterpoint just addresses that the same can be said for action combat. And yet we still have plenty of hackers.
That's simply going to be a problem no matter what type of game you play online.
EDIT: Also worth noting that , while an aimbot can work with most systems, it isn't that outstanding with games that utilize bullet physics rather than raycast/hitscan (sadly a lot of games and especially action MMOs use hitscan).
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Modern mainstream gaming is leaning strongly toward faster, action-oriented play in shorter play sessions. The action combat design usually requires fewer skill-bar slots as opposed to tab-targeting.
It's no coincidence that action-combat translates well to console audiences. The bigger the market for a single game design, the greater the profits.
Otherwise, how do you think people enjoy games like D3? I get that you really like tab targetting .. but you don't represent everyone's preference.
And no one says tab targetting cannot accomplish .. it is just that the whole system is boring, to me, compared to these other gameplay styles.
Pray tell, where can I learn to shoot lightening bolts from my face into a giant rock troll? I can't even find a rock troll in the woods behind my house let alone know where to begin shooting lightening from my face.
I could do this all day, but needless to say, I want my giant sword to hit lots of things because it's a game and bigger means more killy and more stabby. So stop forcing me to target one thing and let me swing my stupidly large sword around my head like a helicopter chainsaw of death.
As to your straw men I will leave them there for the amusement of others.
One issue is that companies are putting all their eggs in the combat basket, when it might actually be one of the least important things. Combat, of any system, gets stale after a while. And if you get combat fatigue, there better be other stuff to keep you invested. Modern games fail at that 'other stuff'.
The most successful game with "modern" combat is GW2 and people rarely rave about GW2's combat. FFXIV is one of the poorer examples of tab target combat and its doing quite well. Again, no one raves about its combat (and rightfully so).