So how can it fail?

ArChWind

I am just not getting the connection so maybe someone will explain this dilemma.

BDO is a PvE themepark (check)

BDO is a PURE PvE sandbox (check)

BDO is a PURE OW FFA PvP sandbox (check)

So how  will it fail It covers all of the spectrum?

My thoughts (WOT)

(The first 25 minutes)

First 10 levels are pure themepark quest hub to hub jumps which give you the basic understand of the mechanics of the game play in order to make progression less frustrating.

The PvE  that wanted the sandbox and PURE PvP players that though it was suppose to be a sandbox don't see the connection and they immediately log out and say boo..

(the next 8 hours)

After level 10 of rush the world get a less hub to hub (its still there but actually optional) You don't have to do quests since quest experience starts falling off as a means to level. For PURE PvE players they can start to do sandbox elements and level up in many ways so they are happy until 45 at which they get slapped in the face and forced PvP flagged whether they like it or not and the penalty system is saying either flag it up or you are going to be punished.

The system does not warn them or anyway allow then to opt out so they say fuck this and log out  saying Boo...

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/17922-what-level-do-i-need-to-quit-at-to-never-pvp/&do=findComment&comment=515080

(here on for many hours)

The PURE PvP player that wanted OW FFA PvP had to endure 8 hours of game play (covered)

The PvP player now have a system of complex opt in PvP option that say fight me or else and they have to use PvE methods to work of the penalties or play by the rules the developer has instituted so they log out say boo..

The only ones left are the real hardcore PvP that want to kill each other so they have no sheep, they have no means to level except by their PvE contempt means.

Most will log out and say BOOO..

Discuss.

rodarin

I havent played it but from inference I would saying grinding mobs to level (as opposed to questing to level) isnt sandbox). Even in the most generous terms if youre not getting exp from EVERYTHING you do then it isnt sandbox anyway, but that isnt mutually exclusive as in IF you do get exp from everything that doesnt make it sandbox either.

Why it will 'fail' is because it doesnt have nearly enough content to keep people busy long enough for them to create new content, and the people that leave will never come back in the droves they came to it.

PvP isnt enough of an endgame anymore to keep people interested especially when its just another flawed attempt at 'open world' PvP which is little more than glorified ganking.

goboygo

Forced PvP is bad, so giving players a choice no matter had small is good.

Waterlily

I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.

ArChWind

rodarin said:

I havent played it but from inference I would saying grinding mobs to level (as opposed to questing to level) isnt sandbox). Even in the most generous terms if youre not getting exp from EVERYTHING you do then it isnt sandbox anyway, but that isnt mutually exclusive as in IF you do get exp from everything that doesnt make it sandbox either.

Why it will 'fail' is because it doesnt have nearly enough content to keep people busy long enough for them to create new content, and the people that leave will never come back in the droves they came to it.

PvP isnt enough of an endgame anymore to keep people interested especially when its just another flawed attempt at 'open world' PvP which is little more than glorified ganking.

But can it win in any aspect? There may be a chance that maybe those that would play fair PvP would find it worth playing?

mayito7777

So forced PVP? No thanks, another game to the scrub pile for me.

blastermaster

Interesting discussion.

But what about people who like both PvP and PvE and wanted to have a bit more sand in their themepark for a long while? Won't they stay?

Seems to me that there are already enough games that cater to the type of players you list individually, but not many for people who want a mix and match of everything.

As for content, if I recall correctly, they have a couple expansions already deployed in the KR version, so, assuming that they can do their localization fast enough, it should not be an issue in the short/medium term.

ArChWind

blastermaster said:

Interesting discussion.

But what about people who like both PvP and PvE and wanted to have a bit more sand in their themepark for a long while? Won't they stay?

Seems to me that there are already enough games that cater to the type of players you list individually, but not many for people who want a mix and match of everything.

As for content, if I recall correctly, they have a couple expansions already deployed in the KR version, so, assuming that they can do their localization fast enough, it should not be an issue in the short/medium term.

This is what I am hoping for myself but will it happen or did I waste my money?

Sovrath

ArChWind said:

I am just not getting the connection so maybe someone will explain this dilemma.


First 10 levels are pure themepark quest hub to hub jumps which give you the basic understand of the mechanics of the game play in order to make progression less frustrating.

The PvE  that wanted the sandbox and PURE PvP players that though it was suppose to be a sandbox don't see the connection and they immediately log out and say boo..

After level 10 of rush the world get a less hub to hub (its still there but actually optional) You don't have to do quests since quest experience starts falling off as a means to level. For PURE PvE players they can start to do sandbox elements and level up in many ways so they are happy until 45 at which they get slapped in the face and forced PvP flagged whether they like it or not and the penalty system is saying either flag it up or you are going to be punished.

The system does not warn them or anyway allow then to opt out so they say fuck this and log out  saying Boo...

The PURE PvP player that wanted OW FFA PvP had to endure 8 hours of game play (covered)

The PvP player now have a system of complex opt in PvP option that say fight me or else and they have to use PvE methods to work of the penalties or play by the rules the developer has instituted so they log out say boo..

The only ones left are the real hardcore PvP that want to kill each other so they have no sheep, they have no means to level except by their PvE contempt means.

I think it's level 50 where you can start to pvp. And someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe one has to do a quest to get to 50 so if you don't do the quest you don't have to worry about getting to 50 and pvp'ing.

One can get a dog and the dog will tell you if there are flagged players around.

My guess is that he game is not for the pure pvp player or the pure pve player but players who like a bit of both.

Additionally, one doesn't "have to" do most of the quests from 1 - 10 but the average player won't be able to break away. The other unfortunate thing is that the quests can give bag space.

ArChWind

Sovrath said:

ArChWind said:

I am just not getting the connection so maybe someone will explain this dilemma.


First 10 levels are pure themepark quest hub to hub jumps which give you the basic understand of the mechanics of the game play in order to make progression less frustrating.

The PvE  that wanted the sandbox and PURE PvP players that though it was suppose to be a sandbox don't see the connection and they immediately log out and say boo..

After level 10 of rush the world get a less hub to hub (its still there but actually optional) You don't have to do quests since quest experience starts falling off as a means to level. For PURE PvE players they can start to do sandbox elements and level up in many ways so they are happy until 45 at which they get slapped in the face and forced PvP flagged whether they like it or not and the penalty system is saying either flag it up or you are going to be punished.

The system does not warn them or anyway allow then to opt out so they say fuck this and log out  saying Boo...

The PURE PvP player that wanted OW FFA PvP had to endure 8 hours of game play (covered)

The PvP player now have a system of complex opt in PvP option that say fight me or else and they have to use PvE methods to work of the penalties or play by the rules the developer has instituted so they log out say boo..

The only ones left are the real hardcore PvP that want to kill each other so they have no sheep, they have no means to level except by their PvE contempt means.

I think it's level 50 where you can start to pvp. And someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe one has to do a quest to get to 50 so if you don't do the quest you don't have to worry about getting to 50 and pvp'ing.

One can get a dog and the dog will tell you if there are flagged players around.

My guess is that he game is not for the pure pvp player or the pure pve player but players who like a bit of both.

Additionally, one doesn't "have to" do most of the quests from 1 - 10 but the average player won't be able to break away. The other unfortunate thing is that the quests can give bag space.

It is 45 now and not an option see my what if BDO was more like DF thread I updated it with links to back up my statement.

Reizla

Waterlily said:

I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.

So LOL. EVE online is a sandbox and had little to no PvE content. Same for Lineage II though it's more a hybrid sandbox where clan/guild politics are very important. Black Desert is one of those MMOs that doesn't necessarily relies on PvE as one of the ways to enjoy the game. Perhaps the following movie enlightens on that as well:



IMO Black Desert has so much to offer as a sandbox game that it's 'lack for PvE content' (which statement isn't really true) should be not a real problem. Only problem I see is that it's using 'daily quests' and yet calls itself sandbox...

BlurBleh

Actually the biggest selling point of BDO is neither the PvE nor the PvP, it is the crafting and "life skills"(idk what the english version calls them) and everything that is associated with them.

If you get into the game expecting to straight away dive into epic dungeon crawls or massive PvP battles then you will be disappointed. In fact, from what I've experienced in the game, the PvE and PvP are fairly boring. The real hardcore part (I assume that you are a hardcore MMO player) is the constant grinding and the guild PvP. Those things do not appeal to me since I'm just a casual.

If you are worried about the forced PvP, on the Korean server, that almost never happens. This is because the penalty is simply too great and there is no reward for Pking except for the thrill of Pking itself. As such soon people will realize that Pking is simply not worth the time, effort, and the risk.

LacedOpium

ArChWind said:

The only ones left are the real hardcore PvP that want to kill each other so they have no sheep, they have no means to level except by their PvE contempt means.

Most will log out and say BOOO..

I'm not so sure it will fail, but if it does, the above will have been the correct reason.

There is time, however, to rectify that outcome.  Time will tell.   

ArChWind

LacedOpium said:

ArChWind said:

The only ones left are the real hardcore PvP that want to kill each other so they have no sheep, they have no means to level except by their PvE contempt means.

Most will log out and say BOOO..

I'm not so sure it will fail, but if it does, the above will have been the correct reason.

There is time, however, to rectify that outcome.  Time will tell.   

Again, that is what I am hoping for.

rodarin

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

rodarin said:

I havent played it ...

Sorry but... your opinion has little weight if you judge a game that you  have never played.

"This movie sucks!"
"Have you seen it?"
"No."
*walks away thinking something not very nice about the other person.

I have read enough and seen enough streams. do I HAVE to play it? NO because its an MMO and from what I have seen read and heard it isnt any different than any other hundreds of MMOs out there or one of the dozens I have played.

A  more apt comparison would be "Its a Roles Royce I havent driven one"  but I have driven a car before. The fact that its a RR doesnt make it any different than a Honda Civic other than the price tag and the bells and whistles. Other than the 'thrill' of driving an expensive car what else can a RR do for me that a Honda or Buick or Ford cant? In terms of what ANY automobile can do functionally.

Sovrath

ArChWind said:

It is 45 now and not an option see my what if BDO was more like DF thread I updated it with links to back up my statement.

So does that mean a player must do a quest to get to 45?

Mardukk

aurabullets said:

Actually the biggest selling point of BDO is neither the PvE nor the PvP, it is the crafting and "life skills"(idk what the english version calls them) and everything that is associated with them.

If you get into the game expecting to straight away dive into epic dungeon crawls or massive PvP battles then you will be disappointed. In fact, from what I've experienced in the game, the PvE and PvP are fairly boring. The real hardcore part (I assume that you are a hardcore MMO player) is the constant grinding and the guild PvP. Those things do not appeal to me since I'm just a casual.

If you are worried about the forced PvP, on the Korean server, that almost never happens. This is because the penalty is simply too great and there is no reward for Pking except for the thrill of Pking itself. As such soon people will realize that Pking is simply not worth the time, effort, and the risk.

This.  Everyone keeps talking about PvP and PvE.  They are missing the biggest part of the game with those two.  It does sound like they will give PvP more of a purpose in the future and they are adding more open world PvE bosses.  They are going to try and bolster those two parts of the game, but at release this is a crafting, gathering, housing, character building, hanging out kinda MMO at it's core.

LacedOpium

rodarin said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

rodarin said:

I havent played it ...

Sorry but... your opinion has little weight if you judge a game that you  have never played.

"This movie sucks!"
"Have you seen it?"
"No."
*walks away thinking something not very nice about the other person.

A  more apt comparison would be "Its a Roles Royce I havent driven one"  but I have driven a car before.Other than the 'thrill' of driving an expensive car what else can a RR do for me that a Honda or Buick or Ford cant?

You are making his point.

Unless you have ever driven a Rolls Royce ... you would never know.

Nephaerius

The game is really fun.

SEANMCAD

ArChWind said:

I am just not getting the connection so maybe someone will explain this dilemma.

BDO is a PvE themepark (check)

BDO is a PURE PvE sandbox (check)

BDO is a PURE OW FFA PvP sandbox (check)

by the very use of the words PURE those items are not possible together. Retry what you are saying is not possible

WAIT!

this is the game with gender locked classes?

yeah 'classes' and 'sandbox' cant go together..sorry...let alone age and gender locking which is a 'feature' I have never seen in a game before

ArChWind

Sovrath said:

ArChWind said:

It is 45 now and not an option see my what if BDO was more like DF thread I updated it with links to back up my statement.

So does that mean a player must do a quest to get to 45?

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/17922-what-level-do-i-need-to-quit-at-to-never-pvp/&do=findComment&comment=486254 read the next few entries.

SEANMCAD

ArChWind said:

Sovrath said:

ArChWind said:

It is 45 now and not an option see my what if BDO was more like DF thread I updated it with links to back up my statement.

So does that mean a player must do a quest to get to 45?

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/17922-what-level-do-i-need-to-quit-at-to-never-pvp/&do=findComment&comment=486254 read the next few entries.

to me that means it can be 'sanbox(ish)' at best but what do I know from my understanding Destiny is an MMO so there is that

I dont understand why large developers just cant simply make a Sandbox if that is what they want to make instead of making something else and calling it a sandbox

mayito7777

Here is the answer at what level you are forced to PVP

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/17922-what-level-do-i-need-to-quit-at-to-never-pvp/

If it's like CBT2 44, if it's like korea 49. The 49 would be better because there is a quest before you can  reach 50.

User836

LacedOpium said:

rodarin said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

rodarin said:

I havent played it ...

Sorry but... your opinion has little weight if you judge a game that you  have never played.

"This movie sucks!"
"Have you seen it?"
"No."
*walks away thinking something not very nice about the other person.

A  more apt comparison would be "Its a Roles Royce I havent driven one"  but I have driven a car before.Other than the 'thrill' of driving an expensive car what else can a RR do for me that a Honda or Buick or Ford cant?

You are making his point.

Unless you have ever driven a Rolls Royce ... you would never know.

I've never used a side grinder as a shaving tool but based on my experience from shaving using other tools and the advertised features of the power tool in question I am pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy it.

LacedOpium

User836 said:

LacedOpium said:

rodarin said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

rodarin said:

I havent played it ...

Sorry but... your opinion has little weight if you judge a game that you  have never played.

"This movie sucks!"
"Have you seen it?"
"No."
*walks away thinking something not very nice about the other person.

A  more apt comparison would be "Its a Roles Royce I havent driven one"  but I have driven a car before.Other than the 'thrill' of driving an expensive car what else can a RR do for me that a Honda or Buick or Ford cant?

You are making his point.

Unless you have ever driven a Rolls Royce ... you would never know.

I've never used a side grinder as a shaving tool but based on my experience from shaving using other tools and the advertised features of the power tool in question I am pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy it.

Yeah, and you still wouldn't truly know the feeling until you used one and experienced the feeling for yourself.  Hearing or seeing anything is nothing like feeling it or experiencing it first hand.  Which is the point being made.  

Waterlily

Reizla said:

Waterlily said:

I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.

So LOL. EVE online is a sandbox and had little to no PvE content. Same for Lineage II though it's more a hybrid sandbox where clan/guild politics are very important. Black Desert is one of those MMOs that doesn't necessarily relies on PvE as one of the ways to enjoy the game. Perhaps the following movie enlightens on that as well:



IMO Black Desert has so much to offer as a sandbox game that it's 'lack for PvE content' (which statement isn't really true) should be not a real problem. Only problem I see is that it's using 'daily quests' and yet calls itself sandbox...

PVP, Guild Sieges, more grinding of trash mobs for rare items and a few open world bosses that can be zerged, is not "PVE endgame".

This is probably a great game for PVP players, this is not something for people who want PVE endgame content.