I only played one game that had it right until the company got bought and the game went down the crapper. In that game you didnt have OW PVP, all was PVE except you had arenas where you could go and PVP until you exploded, they even had competitions for PVP where you were paired with another player who was within a bracket of -5 to + 5 levels in comparison with you. If you won you moved forward in the competition until you were fighting against the best PVP players if you were that good. Later on they introduced cross faction PVP tournaments, those were awesome you could even participate watching the competition. And another thing if you won the combat the looser would drop a copy of their best piece weapon or armor. Now that was fun.
We need to stop blaming players for poor game design as it relates to game play and execution. We all know that, for the most part, PvE and PvP do not mix. So the problem is not the players. It is the developers who are threading the line to maximize their bottom profit line. If they were really interested in player satisfaction instead of their bottom line profits, they wouldn't be designing games with this shady tactic of PvE only until level 50 at which time the game converts to "forced PvP" for all players. That's called "trying to have your cake and eat it too." And generally speaking the only players that ultimately end up getting the shaft are the PvE-centric players. They are the ones that are being exploited for their money just so that the developers can maximize their profits and the PvP-centric folk can have their sheep-content to enjoy their style of play.
We need to stop blaming players for poor game design as it relates to game play and execution. We all know that, for the most part, PvE and PvP do not mix. So the problem is not the players. It is the developers who are threading the line to maximize their bottom profit line. If they were really interested in player satisfaction instead of their bottom line profits, they wouldn't be designing games with this shady tactic of PvE only until level 50 at which time the game converts to "forced PvP" for all players. That's called "trying to have your cake and eat it too." And generally speaking the only players that ultimately end up getting the shaft are the PvE-centric players. They are the ones that are being exploited for their money just so that the developers can maximize their profits and the PvP-centric folk can have their sheep-content to enjoy their style of play.
Not to mention, having PVP as end game is also ridiculously cheaper to develop than having to make that pesky PVE type end game gameplay.
We need to stop blaming players for poor game design as it relates to game play and execution. We all know that, for the most part, PvE and PvP do not mix. So the problem is not the players. It is the developers who are threading the line to maximize their bottom profit line. If they were really interested in player satisfaction instead of their bottom line profits, they wouldn't be designing games with this shady tactic of PvE only until level 50 at which time the game converts to "forced PvP" for all players. That's called "trying to have your cake and eat it too." And generally speaking the only players that ultimately end up getting the shaft are the PvE-centric players. They are the ones that are being exploited for their money just so that the developers can maximize their profits and the PvP-centric folk can have their sheep-content to enjoy their style of play.
One thing I am trying to find out but seems to be lacking, did they actually do this?
We need someone who is in game to come out and answer.
I level to PvP flagged without taking a quest. yes or no
I had someone flag me and kill me and I took experience loss. yes or no
this will help us weather or not the information I have is correct or not and help either one way or the other put his thing to rest.
I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.
Just another Asian mmo that months from now some will get bored of and quit. Just like all of them before it. The more i read about it the more i understand why the genre is pretty much done and kickstarter is the only thing keeping it alive. The games just cost to much to make anymore. Put pvp in as a major feature is cheaper than creating pve content. Its what all the kickstarter mmo's are doing too.
I played Darkfall for 4 years but I didnt like pvp. why? makes your head explody figuring that one out doesnt?
Nah, I get it, no quest hubs and a world to explore. Makes sense to me.
more than just that but the thing is at the time (and maybe still now) there dosent exist a game with such features that are also just pve so given the state of the MMO market its very rude to simply say 'dont like it then leave' because in the context of pve games vs pvp games that is saying a great deal
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.
Just another Asian mmo that months from now some will get bored of and quit. Just like all of them before it.
Or just like any other MMORPG ever developed. Asian or not.
Really wish people would hush up with their anti-Asian MMO bias. It's an MMO, period. If you don't like Asian games, then don't patronize them. But to continue to criticize any MMO that comes out of Asia simply for being Asian comes off as racist even if that is not your intent. Particularly when they are pretty much the only one's developing MMORPGs now days, and that way more people are enjoying than those who are not.
I think one can construe from what I said that anyone playing a game that doesn't cater to what they need should not be playing it. Whether that's pvp or pve.
If one is a pvp person or pve person, doesn't matter, don't play games with mechanics that you hate or at least cannot tolerate.
I think you dont understand what I am saying
you are thinking TOTALLY binary as if they ONLY feature in a game is pvp or pve nothing more.
think really really hard and try to answer this question 'I played darkfall for 4 years but I dont like pvp can you think of some reasons why?'
No I am not thinking binary. I am saying that if a person is only pvp or pvp or "can't tolerate a thing' then they shouldn't be playing it. I already answered your query and said that you liked the open world no quest hub thing. A world to explore. You put up with the pvp to get that.
But if players are going to bitch and moan about mechanics then they shouldn't be playing those games.
Just saw your response ... it's not about "being rude'. It's life. In life if there are thing you don't like and you keep complaining then you have to change your "story" and get out of it. Whether tha'ts a job, where you live, a relationship or the games you are playing.
I don't play certain games but I recognize the fact and I play games that I will enjoy. Not every game should be for every person.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think one can construe from what I said that anyone playing a game that doesn't cater to what they need should not be playing it. Whether that's pvp or pve.
If one is a pvp person or pve person, doesn't matter, don't play games with mechanics that you hate or at least cannot tolerate.
I think you dont understand what I am saying
you are thinking TOTALLY binary as if they ONLY feature in a game is pvp or pve nothing more.
think really really hard and try to answer this question 'I played darkfall for 4 years but I dont like pvp can you think of some reasons why?'
No I am not thinking binary. I am saying that if a person is only pvp or pvp or "can't tolerate a thing' then they shouldn't be playing it. I already answered your query and said that you liked the open world no quest hub thing. A world to explore. You put up with the pvp to get that.
But if players are going to bitch and moan about mechanics then they shouldn't be playing those games.
I can agree with that.
They can have conversations about how such a game without pvp should exist but your right they should not complain. and for the 4 years I played Darkfall I almost never complained about the pvp because of that reason.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think one can construe from what I said that anyone playing a game that doesn't cater to what they need should not be playing it. Whether that's pvp or pve.
If one is a pvp person or pve person, doesn't matter, don't play games with mechanics that you hate or at least cannot tolerate.
I think you dont understand what I am saying
you are thinking TOTALLY binary as if they ONLY feature in a game is pvp or pve nothing more.
think really really hard and try to answer this question 'I played darkfall for 4 years but I dont like pvp can you think of some reasons why?'
No I am not thinking binary. I am saying that if a person is only pvp or pvp or "can't tolerate a thing' then they shouldn't be playing it. I already answered your query and said that you liked the open world no quest hub thing. A world to explore. You put up with the pvp to get that.
But if players are going to bitch and moan about mechanics then they shouldn't be playing those games.
I can agree with that.
They can have conversations about how such a game without pvp should exist but your right they should not complain. and for the 4 years I played Darkfall I almost never complained about the pvp because of that reason.
Exactly, you bought into the world and its rules and though you might not have been thrilled with it the good justified the bad.
Heck, while my first mmo was Lineage 2, the only thing I was interested in was the sieges. I wasn't even going to play it, just try it out for a week and i knew that it was open world pvp and had a huge grind for xp and gold. But after I tried it for an hour I was hooked regardless of all the other bits.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Exactly, you bought into the world and its rules and though you might not have been thrilled with it the good justified the bad.
Heck, while my first mmo was Lineage 2, the only thing I was interested in was the sieges. I wasn't even going to play it, just try it out for a week and i knew that it was open world pvp and had a huge grind for xp and gold. But after I tried it for an hour I was hooked regardless of all the other bits.
and requesting that a pvp centric game be turned into a pve game is not exactly the same as requesting longer or shorter crafting timers in a world of 'feature requests'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
No one is asking for the game to be turned PVE, players are asking to have the choice of a flag so you can choose if you want PVP or not. How hard is that?
I played Darkfall for 4 years but I didnt like pvp. why? makes your head explody figuring that one out doesnt?
Nah, I get it, no quest hubs and a world to explore. Makes sense to me.
Same, I played DFUW for years as a PvE player. The above is exactly why I played...freedom and helping your guild even if you were not the best PvPer's. But for me to PvP there has to be something on the line. BDO is looking like it is just PvP for PvP's sake...which is not good for anyone. Also concerned with the no trading thing. How can a rich PvE player help his guild?
Edit: I think without any incentive to open world PvP there won't be that many doing it as often as people are theorycrafting here.
I think one can construe from what I said that anyone playing a game that doesn't cater to what they need should not be playing it. Whether that's pvp or pve.
If one is a pvp person or pve person, doesn't matter, don't play games with mechanics that you hate or at least cannot tolerate.
I think you dont understand what I am saying
you are thinking TOTALLY binary as if they ONLY feature in a game is pvp or pve nothing more.
think really really hard and try to answer this question 'I played darkfall for 4 years but I dont like pvp can you think of some reasons why?'
No I am not thinking binary. I am saying that if a person is only pvp or pvp or "can't tolerate a thing' then they shouldn't be playing it. I already answered your query and said that you liked the open world no quest hub thing. A world to explore. You put up with the pvp to get that.
But if players are going to bitch and moan about mechanics then they shouldn't be playing those games.
I can agree with that.
They can have conversations about how such a game without pvp should exist but your right they should not complain. and for the 4 years I played Darkfall I almost never complained about the pvp because of that reason.
Again, the players are not the ones to blame. If you don't want PvE players complaining then don't develop a game that for the first 50 levels are of PvE only game play. By doing this the developers are pretty much ensuring that there will be PvE players playing the game. I doubt there are many, if any, PvE players playing and/or complaining about PvP in Darkfall, Mortal Online, or any of the myriad of PvP FPS/MOBAs out in the market. PvE players have a right to complain when a game is designed to clearly cater to both gaming demographics, but for which they feel they are being short-changed. That's just a natural and perfectly understandable human reaction.
Again, the players are not the ones to blame. If you don't want PvE players complaining then don't develop a game that for the first 50 levels are of PvE only game play. By doing this the developers are pretty much ensuring that there will be PvE players playing the game. I doubt there are many, if any, PvE players playing and/or complaining about PvP in Darkfall, Mortal Online, or any of the myriad of PvP FPS/MOBAs out in the market. PvE players have a right to complain when a game is designed to clearly cater to both gaming demographics, but for which they feel they are being short-changed. That's just a natural and perfectly understandable human reaction.
this is a strong point.
I know that might sound like I am playing 'yes' to both side but I think in this specific example its a good point.
I also think Pve only up to a certian level then everyone is pvp has got to be the worst game design decision I have ever heard of.
Gender locking classes is just something I dont think anyone would ever even consider.
very bizzare this game
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I dont think the question is 'should it be hard to pvp people who dont want to' I think the question is 'why is it possible in the first place, specifically what design decision was made where that made some level of sense' and in addition why would you force pvp player to pve for the first 45 levels? that sounds like the most idiotic of design choices ever
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Again, the players are not the ones to blame. If you don't want PvE players complaining then don't develop a game that for the first 50 levels are of PvE only game play. By doing this the developers are pretty much ensuring that there will be PvE players playing the game.
But it's kind of silly of them to play the game. If the game was such (and obviously this is an extreme example) where you play for 49 levels and then get a nice swift kick in the crotch, no one would play. "Well, the game seems fun for a bit, but then there's that kick in the crotch, so not interested".
Point being, if at any place during game play one sees activities that they just don't want to do then let that make the decision.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Again, the players are not the ones to blame. If you don't want PvE players complaining then don't develop a game that for the first 50 levels are of PvE only game play. By doing this the developers are pretty much ensuring that there will be PvE players playing the game.
But it's kind of silly of them to play the game. If the game was such (and obviously this is an extreme example) where you play for 49 levels and then get a nice swift kick in the crotch, no one would play. "Well, the game seems fun for a bit, but then there's that kick in the crotch, so not interested".
Point being, if at any place during game play one sees activities that they just don't want to do then let that make the decision.
I think he is right.
I dont think any right minded pvp player with all the options in the market for good pvp play would grind for 50 levels just to pvp
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I dont think any right minded pvp player with all the options in the market for good pvp play would grind for 50 levels just to pvp
It's 45 levels but I think you are all right since who wants to play PvE and be kicked in the crotch forced to play PvP and who wants to play PvE just to play PvP.
I dont think the question is 'should it be hard to pvp people who dont want to' I think the question is 'why is it possible in the first place, specifically what design decision was made where that made some level of sense' and in addition why would you force pvp player to pve for the first 45 levels? that sounds like the most idiotic of design choices ever
It allows a player to learn the game without being killed 24/7. I actually think it was a pretty good decision if they wanted the ability to OWPvP. There are people who enjoy PvP that don't want to be ganked at low level.
I dont think the question is 'should it be hard to pvp people who dont want to' I think the question is 'why is it possible in the first place, specifically what design decision was made where that made some level of sense' and in addition why would you force pvp player to pve for the first 45 levels? that sounds like the most idiotic of design choices ever
It allows a player to learn the game without being killed 24/7. I actually think it was a pretty good decision if they wanted the ability to OWPvP. There are people who enjoy PvP that don't want to be ganked at low level.
So what about the PvE players who thought it was PvE and PvP?
Again, the players are not the ones to blame. If you don't want PvE players complaining then don't develop a game that for the first 50 levels are of PvE only game play. By doing this the developers are pretty much ensuring that there will be PvE players playing the game.
But it's kind of silly of them to play the game. If the game was such (and obviously this is an extreme example) where you play for 49 levels and then get a nice swift kick in the crotch, no one would play. "Well, the game seems fun for a bit, but then there's that kick in the crotch, so not interested".
Point being, if at any place during game play one sees activities that they just don't want to do then let that make the decision.
I think he is right.
I dont think any right minded pvp player with all the options in the market for good pvp play would grind for 50 levels just to pvp
I wouldn't disagree. They are looking at the game and even though they know that a good chunk of the game will cater to their liking, they don't want anything to do with the pve grinding. They are making a sound decision.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I dont think the question is 'should it be hard to pvp people who dont want to' I think the question is 'why is it possible in the first place, specifically what design decision was made where that made some level of sense' and in addition why would you force pvp player to pve for the first 45 levels? that sounds like the most idiotic of design choices ever
It allows a player to learn the game without being killed 24/7. I actually think it was a pretty good decision if they wanted the ability to OWPvP. There are people who enjoy PvP that don't want to be ganked at low level.
so you think that there WILL be PVP players willing to grind for 50 levels so that they can pvp?
ok well my hunch is not so much
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I dont think the question is 'should it be hard to pvp people who dont want to' I think the question is 'why is it possible in the first place, specifically what design decision was made where that made some level of sense' and in addition why would you force pvp player to pve for the first 45 levels? that sounds like the most idiotic of design choices ever
It allows a player to learn the game without being killed 24/7. I actually think it was a pretty good decision if they wanted the ability to OWPvP. There are people who enjoy PvP that don't want to be ganked at low level.
so you think that there WILL be PVP players willing to grind for 50 levels so that they can pvp?
ok well my hunch is not so much
Interesting. Maybe that is why at this point it gets a little tough they lower the entry point.
Comments
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
We need to stop blaming players for poor game design as it relates to game play and execution. We all know that, for the most part, PvE and PvP do not mix. So the problem is not the players. It is the developers who are threading the line to maximize their bottom profit line. If they were really interested in player satisfaction instead of their bottom line profits, they wouldn't be designing games with this shady tactic of PvE only until level 50 at which time the game converts to "forced PvP" for all players. That's called "trying to have your cake and eat it too." And generally speaking the only players that ultimately end up getting the shaft are the PvE-centric players. They are the ones that are being exploited for their money just so that the developers can maximize their profits and the PvP-centric folk can have their sheep-content to enjoy their style of play.
One thing I am trying to find out but seems to be lacking, did they actually do this?
We need someone who is in game to come out and answer.
I level to PvP flagged without taking a quest. yes or no
I had someone flag me and kill me and I took experience loss. yes or no
this will help us weather or not the information I have is correct or not and help either one way or the other put his thing to rest.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Or just like any other MMORPG ever developed. Asian or not.
Really wish people would hush up with their anti-Asian MMO bias. It's an MMO, period. If you don't like Asian games, then don't patronize them. But to continue to criticize any MMO that comes out of Asia simply for being Asian comes off as racist even if that is not your intent. Particularly when they are pretty much the only one's developing MMORPGs now days, and that way more people are enjoying than those who are not.
But if players are going to bitch and moan about mechanics then they shouldn't be playing those games.
Just saw your response ... it's not about "being rude'. It's life. In life if there are thing you don't like and you keep complaining then you have to change your "story" and get out of it. Whether tha'ts a job, where you live, a relationship or the games you are playing.
I don't play certain games but I recognize the fact and I play games that I will enjoy. Not every game should be for every person.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They can have conversations about how such a game without pvp should exist but your right they should not complain. and for the 4 years I played Darkfall I almost never complained about the pvp because of that reason.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Heck, while my first mmo was Lineage 2, the only thing I was interested in was the sieges. I wasn't even going to play it, just try it out for a week and i knew that it was open world pvp and had a huge grind for xp and gold. But after I tried it for an hour I was hooked regardless of all the other bits.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
Edit: I think without any incentive to open world PvP there won't be that many doing it as often as people are theorycrafting here.
Again, the players are not the ones to blame. If you don't want PvE players complaining then don't develop a game that for the first 50 levels are of PvE only game play. By doing this the developers are pretty much ensuring that there will be PvE players playing the game. I doubt there are many, if any, PvE players playing and/or complaining about PvP in Darkfall, Mortal Online, or any of the myriad of PvP FPS/MOBAs out in the market. PvE players have a right to complain when a game is designed to clearly cater to both gaming demographics, but for which they feel they are being short-changed. That's just a natural and perfectly understandable human reaction.
I know that might sound like I am playing 'yes' to both side but I think in this specific example its a good point.
I also think Pve only up to a certian level then everyone is pvp has got to be the worst game design decision I have ever heard of.
Gender locking classes is just something I dont think anyone would ever even consider.
very bizzare this game
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Released game patch notes for anyone to read.
Gameplay
· Level Cap
o The level cap has been increased from 50 to 55.
o You will still be able to gain additional skill points once you have reached the level cap.
· PvP
o PvP is enabled from level 45 onward.
o Guild Wars
§ Guilds can declare up to 6 wars at a time.
§ Guild War declaration costs 200,000 silver.
§ Guild Wars will not have an upkeep cost.
o Karma
§ Penalties increase based on your Karma range as follows.
§ 300,000 to 150,000
§ 150,000 to 0
§ 0 to -500,000
§ -500,000 to -1,000,000
§ Penalties for PvE deaths.
§ Crystal Breaking
§ Losing Enchant levels of equipped items when you have negative karma.
§ Experience Loss
§ Penalties for PvP deaths.
§ Increased risk of crystals breaking.
§ Experience Loss.
§ Penalties for death in general.
§ Guards may attack you in towns when you have negative karma.
§ Random respawn locations when you have negative karma to prevent low karma players from being repetitively killed/camped.
§ Durability Loss
§ Attacking a player who has positive karma will cost you 3,000 karma.
§ Killing a player who has positive karma will cost you 60,000 karma.
§ Attacking a player who has negative karma will cost you 0 karma.
§ Killing a player who has negative karma will cost you 0 karma.
§ Maximum karma is 300,000.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
'why is it possible in the first place, specifically what design decision was made where that made some level of sense' and in addition why would you force pvp player to pve for the first 45 levels? that sounds like the most idiotic of design choices ever
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Point being, if at any place during game play one sees activities that they just don't want to do then let that make the decision.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I dont think any right minded pvp player with all the options in the market for good pvp play would grind for 50 levels just to pvp
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
So what about the PvE players who thought it was PvE and PvP?
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
ok well my hunch is not so much
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.