All the old titles are still running, we don't need new ones. Go play the ones that are still being updated.
Tell that to the City of Heroes people. Or the Warhammer Online people. Or the Star Wars Galaxies people.
The real problem is twofold: First, new games aren't getting published. Secondly, the old games are getting snuffed out.
Now back to the topic at hand...
When I see a cheap, afterthought of a free terrain building app get sold to Microsoft for millions of dollars, simply because its so popular, I have to think that the left hand in this industry doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
Because Minecraft has no fast travel. It has no anti-grind mechanics. Its combat system is rudimentary. Its focus isn't on quests, but on building. And yet, it's far surpassing any and every so-called MMORPG out there. The people either want to do not mind the things that Minecraft offers. And why shouldn't they? Minecraft does persistant worlds better than so called "persistant world" MMORPGs.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
You are sorely mistaken if you think the actual problem is one suffered by players and not the companies wasting money chasing pipe dreams. See thread topic for perfect example of the downfall of the grand daddy of mmo developers.
why is that a problem either? So some companies waste (not mine) money on some pipe dreams and get burnt. should i care?
And in the mean time, there are a lot (even a small percentage) of good fun, successful games like The Division, and i have more than enough (in fact, more than i have time for) entertainment.
So tell me again, what is the problem?
I'm not even sure you are being serious or just trolling.
Companies not making money is a problem. I'm not discussing this trying to solve your personal gaming interests (or mine). In general there is a trend of gaming company making games that dont have a target in mind and end up doing poorly.
You may not see it, but it deters others from entering the space and risking their development dollars. Especially when the games have big IP's behind them and still stumble.
Case in point of why I really stopped debating this ongoing topic/narrative, there's no real honesty in it. IF almost no one wanted to play these games they would not still be going, that's the bottom line. Far too many responses come from a position of fallacy, all in an attempt to make your own desires seem far more important than they are.... You know what type of game truly tried to account for everyone? SWG.. Which has nothing to do with the market today.
All of these games for the most part are catering to a specific type of audience. ESO, TSW, SWTOR, AOC.. as an example offer a major focus on story questing, as well as story infused PVE encounters, with the exception of ESO, things like PVP, crafting, etc.. are nothing more than filler to flesh out other things to do when you don't wanna quest. That's not trying to cater to everyone, that's pretty damn specific if you ask me. It's a market that brings single-player aspects into an MMO environment. That's where the dishonesty comes into play, and we get statements like the above.. When what you really should say is "I don't want to play them", that doesn't sound encompassing enough to matter though does it?
So how am I presenting my needs as being more important than they are? No where do I say there are no good games to play or no one plays any games or that I need a game to be a certain way. I'm just discussing why I think so many games do poorly.
It is undemiable that there have been a shockingly large number of MMOs that have been released and flopped, many of which closing down.
I think the majority of games try to follow a wow-esque model in an effort to attract as many players from as many demographics as possible and in the end miss their mark. It find it funny that what you described as being targeted specific is what I was referring to as generic mmo build for the masses.
and just to prove you wrong, I enjoyed that gameplay for more years than any other MMO I've played. I think you are implying motivations in me that don't really exist.
You may not see it, but it deters others from entering the space and risking their development dollars. Especially when the games have big IP's behind them and still stumble.
If you enjoy the Division, cool. Have fun.
It does not look like AAA devs stop to invest. The Division got made, didn't it? There are tons of AAA games coming out this year (just no more mmorpgs).
And yes, I enjoy TD. I am having fun. May be MMOs are not so bad. I am glad to give this one a chance.
You may not see it, but it deters others from entering the space and risking their development dollars. Especially when the games have big IP's behind them and still stumble.
If you enjoy the Division, cool. Have fun.
It does not look like AAA devs stop to invest. The Division got made, didn't it? There are tons of AAA games coming out this year (just no more mmorpgs).
And yes, I enjoy TD. I am having fun. May be MMOs are not so bad. I am glad to give this one a chance.
The reality, which OP seems to not get, is that there are more fun things to do in a game than bounce around and pull triggers. Traveling can be fun, especially if it's through dangerous or semi-unknown territory.
My top experience in MMO gaming, really in gaming, was probably my first trek across the continent of Antonica in early EQ. I had to buy lots of rations, think and plan how I was to do the journey (could my map be trusted?).
I met up with higher level people that shook their heads at my boldness (I was only level 8). They gave me assistance, saved me from getting rooted by a ghoul. Helped me navigate through Highhold Pass, then Kithicor (and that almost went bad, we took a wrong turn and got lost just as the sun was going down), saved me from a run-in with the griffin in West Commonlands. Then I meekly walked through the gates of a crowded Freeport, hoping I would not get attacked by an NPC. I finally talked to a Wizard, I think, who bound me there, and then my adventures continued.
Now that's a lot more fun that being trapped in some idiotic storyline cutscene, herded through a lame questline so I can eliminate invisible boundaries and venture elsewhere in the world, or bouncing and bopping around in an action shooter that gets old fast.
I know OP will come back and say devs are in the business of making money, MMO's are niche, just not profitable, not fun, etc... blah, blah, blah... But ... he's wrong about MMO's, doesn't know what the ___ he's talking about. MMO's, done right (as they have been occasionally), can be huge. HUGE. And they're great fun. Nothing else in gaming really compares, IMO.
EQ didn't have a Map system until Luclin, IIRC, and the only way to get decent maps were from a third party. Those maps were totally legit, too.
No one was doing their first treks across Antonica with a map, unless your'e talking about those maps that game in the box, which were totally useless and almost no one used because they didn't really give you much information at all.
Seeing as he always likes to quote this site as gospel....
Number of posts vs number of points (this sites indication of positive posts and 'better' content).
Narius = 25145 posts 551 points. 2.19%
Creo = 3760 posts 246 points. 6.54%
So purely using this site, which Narius loves to use to back up his 'this site calls it an mmo so it must' argument, despite posting almost 7 times the content you have posted almost 300% 'better' content.
Quality over quantity....
My advice., just ignore the guy as he is a lot of hot air and posts like a scratched record....
Warning incoming hey Narius?
That statistic is idiotic. You would have to list the amount of posts since the rating system came up. Not the amount of posts since MMORPG came to life.
So unless you count the "recent" posts of the two the only reliable information here 500 to 250 points.
Willing to bet Nari is the overall post leader since the new forums went live, so the stat is probably still representational.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The reality, which OP seems to not get, is that there are more fun things to do in a game than bounce around and pull triggers. Traveling can be fun, especially if it's through dangerous or semi-unknown territory.
My top experience in MMO gaming, really in gaming, was probably my first trek across the continent of Antonica in early EQ. I had to buy lots of rations, think and plan how I was to do the journey (could my map be trusted?).
I met up with higher level people that shook their heads at my boldness (I was only level 8). They gave me assistance, saved me from getting rooted by a ghoul. Helped me navigate through Highhold Pass, then Kithicor (and that almost went bad, we took a wrong turn and got lost just as the sun was going down), saved me from a run-in with the griffin in West Commonlands. Then I meekly walked through the gates of a crowded Freeport, hoping I would not get attacked by an NPC. I finally talked to a Wizard, I think, who bound me there, and then my adventures continued.
Now that's a lot more fun that being trapped in some idiotic storyline cutscene, herded through a lame questline so I can eliminate invisible boundaries and venture elsewhere in the world, or bouncing and bopping around in an action shooter that gets old fast.
I know OP will come back and say devs are in the business of making money, MMO's are niche, just not profitable, not fun, etc... blah, blah, blah... But ... he's wrong about MMO's, doesn't know what the ___ he's talking about. MMO's, done right (as they have been occasionally), can be huge. HUGE. And they're great fun. Nothing else in gaming really compares, IMO.
And that, @ReallyNow10, is why we're designing our game with no mini-maps, no glowing trails leading you from point A to point B, and no map other than the world map that everyone has access to.
Navigation, and exploration, used to be a huge part of the gaming experience. Learning landmarks...using a compass...having a sense-heading skill...needing to work together to find ways through areas, talk to other players for directions, and the like.
It's one of the many old-school aspects that we're working with.
Comments
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
The real problem is twofold: First, new games aren't getting published. Secondly, the old games are getting snuffed out.
Now back to the topic at hand...
When I see a cheap, afterthought of a free terrain building app get sold to Microsoft for millions of dollars, simply because its so popular, I have to think that the left hand in this industry doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
Because Minecraft has no fast travel. It has no anti-grind mechanics. Its combat system is rudimentary. Its focus isn't on quests, but on building. And yet, it's far surpassing any and every so-called MMORPG out there. The people either want to do not mind the things that Minecraft offers. And why shouldn't they? Minecraft does persistant worlds better than so called "persistant world" MMORPGs.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I'm not even sure you are being serious or just trolling.
Companies not making money is a problem. I'm not discussing this trying to solve your personal gaming interests (or mine). In general there is a trend of gaming company making games that dont have a target in mind and end up doing poorly.
You may not see it, but it deters others from entering the space and risking their development dollars. Especially when the games have big IP's behind them and still stumble.
If you enjoy the Division, cool. Have fun.
So how am I presenting my needs as being more important than they are? No where do I say there are no good games to play or no one plays any games or that I need a game to be a certain way. I'm just discussing why I think so many games do poorly.
It is undemiable that there have been a shockingly large number of MMOs that have been released and flopped, many of which closing down.
I think the majority of games try to follow a wow-esque model in an effort to attract as many players from as many demographics as possible and in the end miss their mark. It find it funny that what you described as being targeted specific is what I was referring to as generic mmo build for the masses.
and just to prove you wrong, I enjoyed that gameplay for more years than any other MMO I've played. I think you are implying motivations in me that don't really exist.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
All this coming soon, TBD, TBA, crap is what's destroying the genre. If a game isn't close to release STFU and get back to work. Sheesh.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And yes, I enjoy TD. I am having fun. May be MMOs are not so bad. I am glad to give this one a chance.
Funny enough they are the kind of mature and calm gamers I like to hang with.
No one was doing their first treks across Antonica with a map, unless your'e talking about those maps that game in the box, which were totally useless and almost no one used because they didn't really give you much information at all.
Heck, I think he stepped up his game since then.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This place is fun, but certainly not as fun as some of the new entertainment products.
Navigation, and exploration, used to be a huge part of the gaming experience. Learning landmarks...using a compass...having a sense-heading skill...needing to work together to find ways through areas, talk to other players for directions, and the like.
It's one of the many old-school aspects that we're working with.
No maps...the ONLY way to roll!