what is ilegal in us may be legal in another country and as long u are paying, isps dont give a fck as they accountability can be easily dismissed, in the end " internet moves a lot faster than lawyers and papers.."
I do hope Blizzard makes a Vanilla Server. Just to see it works out or not. If does not Blizzard would have more a problem on there hand then not doing it.
what is ilegal in us may be legal in another country and as long u are paying, isps dont give a fck as they accountability can be easily dismissed, in the end " internet moves a lot faster than lawyers and papers.."
On the contrary, ISP's are very wary these days of falling foul of any legal 'issues' and are very quick to comply with court orders etc. Sometimes to the point where if there is even just the 'suggestion' of impropriety, they immediately make the 'problem' disappear.
what is ilegal in us may be legal in another country and as long u are paying, isps dont give a fck as they accountability can be easily dismissed, in the end " internet moves a lot faster than lawyers and papers.."
On the contrary, ISP's are very wary these days of falling foul of any legal 'issues' and are very quick to comply with court orders etc. Sometimes to the point where if there is even just the 'suggestion' of impropriety, they immediately make the 'problem' disappear.
this may be true for some countries then, because there are a lot of unkillable nastiness all over net.
This condition of "Nostalgia" will be the downfall of the MMO genre. The truth of the matter is that many people need to get over the fact that they will never play an MMO again that is going to feel like the first MMO they really got into.
This condition of "Nostalgia" will be the downfall of the MMO genre. The truth of the matter is that many people need to get over the fact that they will never play an MMO again that is going to feel like the first MMO they really got into.
u like the new crap, we like the old crap, why cant both of us have the cake?
This condition of "Nostalgia" will be the downfall of the MMO genre. The truth of the matter is that many people need to get over the fact that they will never play an MMO again that is going to feel like the first MMO they really got into.
u like the new crap, we like the old crap, why cant both of us have the cake?
Honestly? It's not in either of our hands. Only Blizzard can make that decision.
So once again , this now 80k , is less than 1% of Blizzs paying customers , this less than 1% is made up of a majority of people that were stealing a service .. And now you expect Blizz to do flips for them ... good luck with that
84,500 ... but who's counting?
Still significantly less than the 150k "active" players on the server....but who's counting?
For the record, just giving good natured trouble to you.
Doh! Well, I suppose I deserve that.
Truth be told, I think this debate is much ado about nothing. I don't think Blizzard is going to give us legacy servers any time soon. I think they should, but I'm pretty sure they won't.
These debates are still fun though.
Thing is that we all, regardless of our position on classic realms, love WoW in one of its many incarnations or another. If we didn't, there would be no debate.
that i can certainly agree on.
i have over two full years in game /played time in wow over all my characters, so yeah i would love to play the old vanilla game i fell in love with.
i realize i am part of a certain demographic, i'm an older player and i tend to enjoy these types of "legacy" servers as i enjoy the EQ progression servers as well.
i think eventually blizz will pull the trigger after they lose so much of their player base that it would then be worth it for them to support vanilla servers.
it's just a matter of time and we could be waiting a while honestly.
This condition of "Nostalgia" will be the downfall of the MMO genre. The truth of the matter is that many people need to get over the fact that they will never play an MMO again that is going to feel like the first MMO they really got into.
u like the new crap, we like the old crap, why cant both of us have the cake?
Honestly? It's not in either of our hands. Only Blizzard can make that decision.
True, but the outright hostility towards the legacy customers who are looking for things like CoH, WoW Classic/BC/Wrath, SW Gal, etc. is getting really really old.
The anti-legacy movement acts like production funding and folks knowing how to create these legacy systems are finite. The number of people that do this with small groups in their basements/garages with no funding blows that view out of the water, but they refuse to think or be open to obvious facts that disagree with their narrative.
This condition of "Nostalgia" will be the downfall of the MMO genre. The truth of the matter is that many people need to get over the fact that they will never play an MMO again that is going to feel like the first MMO they really got into.
couldn't disagree more. i would argue that the "downfall" is the fact that the genre is saturated with mmo's and pretty much everything has been done before.
that is why every single game gets hated on and a lot less people stick around for years like they used to. i'm not sure why you would think this is not a good thing for the genre, some people don't like the direction mmo's are going so they want to play the older versions of the games they used to love.
not sure why that is a problem? i will tell you what i think is a problem, it's these F2P games that scam you into paying more than a sub is worth and basically making you buy content with real money rather than including it with the full version of the game/sub.
there is so much wrong with the direction this genre is going, offering classic style servers is not one of them, JMO of course.
Blizzard has no reason to establish vanilla version servers.
Yes, many players like myself are fond of the first incarnation of WoW and the TBC expansion. I played on Nostalrius and had fun plus i met some nice people as well.
However, splitting the player base between "modern" and vanilla WoW makes absolute no sense. Not while they have invested so much, as they keep telling us, in Legion.
Vanilla Wow is a MMO world.
Retail Wow is a instance MMO.
Blizzard sells out regularly.
They are going for the buck > game quality regularly.....world pvp, leveling experience? "Nah, we give you instanced max levels, XP boosts, level boosts, heirloom gear..."
No reason to not put up a single or two vanilla servers.
The content is there, others have done it, no need to put in new content, most only want vanilla and TBC. Done and they are happy.
I am not a Wow fan, I liked the old game just for the fun and pvp, I quit retail after cataclysm because well, it was plain bad. Tried again for a week or so after Kung Fu Panda Children's Land and the immensely horrible last expansion. It went from bad to worse.
And shutting down Nostalrius, big deal, I for one would not be resubbing to Wow Retail anyway nor buy a sub for a vanilla server.
But the statement from some here that it would not be profitable is plain rubbish.
This is just Blizzard ego and panic because Nostalrius was doing great, while Retail is bleeding subs more and more.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I quit WoW at TBC because I really didn't find it fun anymore once they brought in BG's and essentially ruined a lot of the fun of OWPvP. But, with that said, I'd definitely sign up for a Vanilla WoW server especially if it's run by Blizzard. Emulated servers never have the ping I want.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
It's not nostalgia, is because the warcraft vanilla is better than WoD trash...
Hyperbolic opinion. Around 5M people disagree with you, though you are obviously entitled to your thoughts on the issue.
And 6 Million during vanilla would agree with him and 11.5 million in TBC would also agree with him and both had growing populations not decreasing.
But what of the other 100M? Anyone can throw numbers around.(Vanilla peaked at 8M and BC at 11M btw). We simply don't know.
What - I suggest - is absolutely certain is that if Blizzard opened some "new old servers" then some of the people on the existing servers would move and, if it was a free for all, many would "move" simply to try it out - potentially creating carnage on the existing servers. (And discontent amongst those who couldn't create characters / get on.)
So what could be done?
My suggestion would be something like:
1. Announce that they would open "vailla servers" and/or a WotkL server etc. 2. Key word: subscribers would be able to enter a server based draw with rukes. 3. The server based draw would ensure that the impact on anyone server would be limited. 4. Open the new server for winners of the draw. 5. Further draws would take place as player numbers decllined. Players who unsubscribe; players who don't play a minimujm amount, players inactive for a set period of time being removed. Character data could obviously be stored and players could go back in the draw. 6. Blizzard open new servers if / as they deem appropriate.
We do know the numbers. Blizzard was giving out the numbers during vanilla and TBC. So yes we DO KNOW.
They only need to do 3 things for classic servers.
Open a PVE and PVP server for both Vanilla and TBC. Have no server transfers so everyone has to start new. Have an Active Subscription.
If more servers are needed they have how many live servers that well have no population on them at all that Blizzard and redeploy.
The number I was talking about that we absolutely do not know is how many will come back.
The game has - according to AB - had more than 100M players. And lost over 100M subs. As SBFord says people have moved on. So how many will come back - 100M or 50M or 10M or 1M or 100k? We do not know at all. So do they open 1 server or 10,000? And close them again in a month?
So it isn't that simple. If anything happens - which I doubt - there would need to be a plan.
This condition of "Nostalgia" will be the downfall of the MMO genre. The truth of the matter is that many people need to get over the fact that they will never play an MMO again that is going to feel like the first MMO they really got into.
u like the new crap, we like the old crap, why cant both of us have the cake?
i don't think you understood what he said, uh well..
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I no longer play WoW, but I played on-again off-again over a long stretch of time. From late 2004 (a couple weeks after it launched) until fall of last year. Some long breaks in there, but across that massive span of time.
While I think that in many ways Cataclysm and its changes were needed to breathe life into the game, it was also, ironically, well named - both for the "physical" damage it wrought to the old world, and the way it completely sundered WoW from the game it was and transformed it into the game it is now.
As a longtime player of WoW, I was profoundly distrubed to see what they did to so many of the old zones, especially Aszhara (which, in its quiet little way was one of my all time favorite zones of any game, ever), and many of the other zones too. They took out so much of what was semi-organic about the old game (hidden quests like "One Shot, One Kill" in Darkshore, among many) and put the whole game into an "on rails" mode. You used to enter a zone, and there might be elites, they might be quests as much as 10+ levels over your head, but you'd find what you could do, team up for what you couldn't solo, and in the back of your head you'd say "One day, I'll come back, and I will finish this!" Now it's just hit a quest cluster, do the 3-6 quests, open up the next salvo, then move onto the next spot never to return.
An early responder to this thread said it would be embrassing for Blizzard if a classic server outperformed their current servers. I don't know about that, but there's probably something to that.
Personally, I always assumed they'd make some sort of instanced access to the old world - the way it was pre-Cata - available via the Caverns of Time. I was genuinely shocked when that never happened.
If they made a server with a special sub rate that we could join that was forever locked in the state of WoW pre-TBC I would be interested.
Likewise, I would enjoy, eventually, servers that added TBC and WolK.
I consider original WoW + TBC + WotLK to be the game's halcyon days.
This condition of "Nostalgia" will be the downfall of the MMO genre. The truth of the matter is that many people need to get over the fact that they will never play an MMO again that is going to feel like the first MMO they really got into.
couldn't disagree more. i would argue that the "downfall" is the fact that the genre is saturated with mmo's and pretty much everything has been done before.
that is why every single game gets hated on and a lot less people stick around for years like they used to. i'm not sure why you would think this is not a good thing for the genre, some people don't like the direction mmo's are going so they want to play the older versions of the games they used to love.
not sure why that is a problem? i will tell you what i think is a problem, it's these F2P games that scam you into paying more than a sub is worth and basically making you buy content with real money rather than including it with the full version of the game/sub.
there is so much wrong with the direction this genre is going, offering classic style servers is not one of them, JMO of course.
F2P does have it's bad and good parts. P2P have the same problem if you don't buy there xpack and to bad if one some can't play with other people it's just more then the game/sub.
<snip> Personally, I always assumed they'd make some sort of instanced access to the old world - the way it was pre-Cata - available via the Caverns of Time. I was genuinely shocked when that never happened.
If they made a server with a special sub rate that we could join that was forever locked in the state of WoW pre-TBC I would be interested.
That would be another way of doing it as well. Can't see any special sub though.
Past players left for a reason however - a simple average of c.9M players a year. Which suggests that things were never that rosy!
<snip> Personally, I always assumed they'd make some sort of instanced access to the old world - the way it was pre-Cata - available via the Caverns of Time. I was genuinely shocked when that never happened.
If they made a server with a special sub rate that we could join that was forever locked in the state of WoW pre-TBC I would be interested.
That would be another way of doing it as well. Can't see any special sub though.
Past players left for a reason however - a simple average of c.9M players a year. Which suggests that things were never that rosy!
<snip> Personally, I always assumed they'd make some sort of instanced access to the old world - the way it was pre-Cata - available via the Caverns of Time. I was genuinely shocked when that never happened.
If they made a server with a special sub rate that we could join that was forever locked in the state of WoW pre-TBC I would be interested.
That would be another way of doing it as well. Can't see any special sub though.
Past players left for a reason however - a simple average of c.9M players a year. Which suggests that things were never that rosy!
well TBC isn't vanilla but if blizz did introduce "legacy servers" i see no reason to believe they cannot have a server with TBC enabled or at the very least introduce one a few months after they launch vanilla.
to me working out those details isn't the major issue. here is the thing about those subs they are supposedly missing, they are not coming back now, that is for sure.
those players are now flocking to other private servers or possibly other games, they are not going to just say "well, guess we have to sub to wow now"
maybe a select few are but i hope blizz causing this shit storm was worth those few coming back.
Respectfully, that's a stretch to say Blizzard is "causing" a shit-storm, they did what is perfectly in their right to do, they shutdown a "rival" who got too big for their britches. What causes such "storms" is people being people, thinking they're entitled to have whatever they want, regardless of what it costs the creator.. Sorry if that sounds harsh, yet in the end that's the truth of the matter.
to be honest, if they are going to be arrogant pricks about it and tell us we actually don't want that, refuse to offer the service, then cry foul when a "rival" provides that service......then yep, it's a shit storm they unleashed.
i realize it's their legal right to do what they did, does not necessarily make it the right thing to do. they could have handled this differently, they could have taken the DBG route.
You know had DBG actually cared about their bottom-line more as well as didn't need such goodwill to make up for many acts in the past, things might actually be different for them, as it stands they're hardly a model of success to prop on a pedestal on such an issue. Blizzard is another story all together, they're not flopping around like a fish out of water trying to increase revenue, or win hearts and minds... as their gaming portfolio is still highly relevant.
I am not even a fan of theirs, I have disliked every Blizz game I've ever tried. Yet I'd still stand by any company who shuts down theft of their own property... Which is what happened here. Peoples want for something doesn't circumvent that fact..Nor does their want take away the morally bankrupt practice of intellectual property theft.
The only arrogance I'm really seeing here are those who demand Blizzard to cave to their wants with asinine reasoning, and guilt trips. Acting as though they're victims of wrong doing because what they were stealing got taken away.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
<snip> Personally, I always assumed they'd make some sort of instanced access to the old world - the way it was pre-Cata - available via the Caverns of Time. I was genuinely shocked when that never happened.
If they made a server with a special sub rate that we could join that was forever locked in the state of WoW pre-TBC I would be interested.
That would be another way of doing it as well. Can't see any special sub though.
Past players left for a reason however - a simple average of c.9M players a year. Which suggests that things were never that rosy!
Wasn't there increasing subs until after WOTLK?
They fell off after Cata which was released in 2010. Check out the graph below.
Vanilla, 2004 The Burning Crusade, Jan 2007 Wrath of the Lich King, Nov 2008 Cataclysm, Dec 2010 Mists of Pandaria, September 2012 Warlords of Draenor, November 2014
<snip> Personally, I always assumed they'd make some sort of instanced access to the old world - the way it was pre-Cata - available via the Caverns of Time. I was genuinely shocked when that never happened.
If they made a server with a special sub rate that we could join that was forever locked in the state of WoW pre-TBC I would be interested.
That would be another way of doing it as well. Can't see any special sub though.
Past players left for a reason however - a simple average of c.9M players a year. Which suggests that things were never that rosy!
Wasn't there increasing subs until after WOTLK?
They fell off after Cata which was released in 2010. Check out the graph below.
Vanilla, 2004 The Burning Crusade, Jan 2007 Wrath of the Lich King, Nov 2008 Cataclysm, Dec 2010 Mists of Pandaria, September 2012 Warlords of Draenor, November 2014
Comments
this may be true for some countries then, because there are a lot of unkillable nastiness all over net.
u like the new crap, we like the old crap, why cant both of us have the cake?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
i have over two full years in game /played time in wow over all my characters, so yeah i would love to play the old vanilla game i fell in love with.
i realize i am part of a certain demographic, i'm an older player and i tend to enjoy these types of "legacy" servers as i enjoy the EQ progression servers as well.
i think eventually blizz will pull the trigger after they lose so much of their player base that it would then be worth it for them to support vanilla servers.
it's just a matter of time and we could be waiting a while honestly.
The anti-legacy movement acts like production funding and folks knowing how to create these legacy systems are finite. The number of people that do this with small groups in their basements/garages with no funding blows that view out of the water, but they refuse to think or be open to obvious facts that disagree with their narrative.
that is why every single game gets hated on and a lot less people stick around for years like they used to. i'm not sure why you would think this is not a good thing for the genre, some people don't like the direction mmo's are going so they want to play the older versions of the games they used to love.
not sure why that is a problem? i will tell you what i think is a problem, it's these F2P games that scam you into paying more than a sub is worth and basically making you buy content with real money rather than including it with the full version of the game/sub.
there is so much wrong with the direction this genre is going, offering classic style servers is not one of them, JMO of course.
Vanilla Wow is a MMO world.
Retail Wow is a instance MMO.
Blizzard sells out regularly.
They are going for the buck > game quality regularly.....world pvp, leveling experience? "Nah, we give you instanced max levels, XP boosts, level boosts, heirloom gear..."
No reason to not put up a single or two vanilla servers.
The content is there, others have done it, no need to put in new content, most only want vanilla and TBC. Done and they are happy.
I am not a Wow fan, I liked the old game just for the fun and pvp, I quit retail after cataclysm because well, it was plain bad. Tried again for a week or so after Kung Fu Panda Children's Land and the immensely horrible last expansion. It went from bad to worse. And shutting down Nostalrius, big deal, I for one would not be resubbing to Wow Retail anyway nor buy a sub for a vanilla server.
But the statement from some here that it would not be profitable is plain rubbish.
This is just Blizzard ego and panic because Nostalrius was doing great, while Retail is bleeding subs more and more.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Really? You think they just take vanilla off a backup and run it?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
The game has - according to AB - had more than 100M players. And lost over 100M subs. As SBFord says people have moved on. So how many will come back - 100M or 50M or 10M or 1M or 100k? We do not know at all. So do they open 1 server or 10,000? And close them again in a month?
So it isn't that simple. If anything happens - which I doubt - there would need to be a plan.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
While I think that in many ways Cataclysm and its changes were needed to breathe life into the game, it was also, ironically, well named - both for the "physical" damage it wrought to the old world, and the way it completely sundered WoW from the game it was and transformed it into the game it is now.
As a longtime player of WoW, I was profoundly distrubed to see what they did to so many of the old zones, especially Aszhara (which, in its quiet little way was one of my all time favorite zones of any game, ever), and many of the other zones too. They took out so much of what was semi-organic about the old game (hidden quests like "One Shot, One Kill" in Darkshore, among many) and put the whole game into an "on rails" mode. You used to enter a zone, and there might be elites, they might be quests as much as 10+ levels over your head, but you'd find what you could do, team up for what you couldn't solo, and in the back of your head you'd say "One day, I'll come back, and I will finish this!" Now it's just hit a quest cluster, do the 3-6 quests, open up the next salvo, then move onto the next spot never to return.
An early responder to this thread said it would be embrassing for Blizzard if a classic server outperformed their current servers. I don't know about that, but there's probably something to that.
Personally, I always assumed they'd make some sort of instanced access to the old world - the way it was pre-Cata - available via the Caverns of Time. I was genuinely shocked when that never happened.
If they made a server with a special sub rate that we could join that was forever locked in the state of WoW pre-TBC I would be interested.
Likewise, I would enjoy, eventually, servers that added TBC and WolK.
I consider original WoW + TBC + WotLK to be the game's halcyon days.
Past players left for a reason however - a simple average of c.9M players a year. Which suggests that things were never that rosy!
Fair enough. You're probably right!
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I am not even a fan of theirs, I have disliked every Blizz game I've ever tried. Yet I'd still stand by any company who shuts down theft of their own property... Which is what happened here. Peoples want for something doesn't circumvent that fact..Nor does their want take away the morally bankrupt practice of intellectual property theft.
The only arrogance I'm really seeing here are those who demand Blizzard to cave to their wants with asinine reasoning, and guilt trips. Acting as though they're victims of wrong doing because what they were stealing got taken away.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
http://www.statista.com/statistics/276601/number-of-world-of-warcraft-subscribers-by-quarter/
Vanilla, 2004
The Burning Crusade, Jan 2007
Wrath of the Lich King, Nov 2008
Cataclysm, Dec 2010
Mists of Pandaria, September 2012
Warlords of Draenor, November 2014
¯\_(ツ)_/¯