People Like This..

Snakex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTTgOD1ESlc

Its people like this that talk about
"Barriers to entry"
"Accessible content"
"Too much time investment"

These people are fucking killing long term MMORPG's. They want everything and now. They dont wanna form community, they dont want to have a long term goal, they dont wanna make in game friends and join a guild to commit to.
Well you know what, the video by Corpsealot "The Casual Gamer" sums up what is wrong here.
Dont come into a World and ask to be handed your fucking P.H.D
For some reason people think everybody needs to be number 1, well this aint your middle school soccer team or boy scouts where everybody gets a medal. You are not fucking special.
When you get everything real fast, theres no reason to stay any longer. Thats why WoW ended up how it is today, because everybody has everything.
 No Challenge, No Community, No Game.

goboygo

I like what your saying ALLOT but devs want to sell boxes or sparkle ponies in the cash shop and to the largest crowd they can which happens to be the people your talking about.  Devs are no longer trying to make the best MMO they can they are trying to make the most profitable MMO they can.  The design philosophy is backwards. Developers  these days  design around cash flow not fun, creative, innovative hard ass but ultra rewarding work for the player.  Here's to the few developers trying to buck this trend.

GladDog

Sad to say, what @goboygo says is likely the truth.  AAA MMORPGs cost so much damn money, and the return is far from guaranteed.  What we are going to be playing in the near future is stuff done by Indy developers.  Maybe they can show the way to the future, and if any big publishers want to take a chance they will be following the guideline laid out by the Indy's, which will drive the costs way down.  And will make for a different experience than we are used to.  Instead of 24 zones, a level cap of 60, 8 races and 12 classes, cut all of those except the level cap (likely 40-50 depending on how much content they can kick out) in half, and then enjoy the ride as the much smaller dev teams add content to the baseline game.

Unless Bless Online ends up being something special...

MikePt

I agree with him partially gw2 is a hamster wheel of grind.I was sick of raiding in wow with time it gets way to long ....I'm getting close to 30ties how the fuck I should manage to do all this grind my guildies  have kids and I see them daily playing came from work playing ...every day online even on weekends for what ? for adding some stupid shit to guild hall for farming achievements wow 20k 25 30 k ...for farming?

The reason so many of us loved gw2 because it was a relief from wow chill dungeon runs lot of fun in WvW but it all died Our sever best Commander quit ..Hot felt like a scum lot of promises and little delivered

After getting very deep into Ark Survival and getting very good at it I got more into idea of Reward=Risk/skill than old time consuming Reward=Grind

By the way I will also support CoE because I love their concept of Reward=Risk 
and even if there is grind it should be meaningful grind and not wow gw2 grind....
Grind those mastery lvls in COF lol.....yes people literally where grinding COF to get them now grinding mastery is harder because less people care or already got them .
or wow grind for gear that become trash every new expansion.....meaningless grind..

laxie

You're making an interesting point.
To share my two cents:

I've been working on RPG Minecraft projects for 3+ years now. I'm not interested in stacking blocks, but spreading the traditional RPG style gameplay to the young gamers.

I was initially surprised by how many young people can't grasp the idea of having to learn a game. Learning systems is something that doesn't make sense to them at all. They expect instant access to all of the gameplay, with an artificial progression tacked on.

If you really think about it, it's not surprising at all. Every game the average young player has access to does just that. Mobile games have about 5 minutes worth of gameplay, repeated over and over again to raise a number. Same could be said for simplified MMORPGs aimed at the mass market - a level 1 experience is essentially the same thing as level cap, except the damage numbers have a lot less zeros.

In contrast, looking back 10 or 20 years, most of the traditional RPGs changed gameplay as you went along. The learning curves were steeper and the process of learning was a good chunk of the fun. This is replaced in favour or games being more intuitive.

My 84 year old grandmother doesn't know how to send an e-mail (I taught here 4 times and she forgets I ever taught her before). She plays the simple mainstream MMOs without issues and enjoys them. She is a very smart lady, but I think it goes to show today's MMOs are simplified to the point that virtually anyone can pick one up.

Accessibility is generally good, but too much of it may lead to people forgetting what learning is. Then once you ask them to learn, they say "This isn't accessible enough."

Aeolyn

laxie said:

You're making an interesting point.
To share my two cents:

I've been working on RPG Minecraft projects for 3+ years now. I'm not interested in stacking blocks, but spreading the traditional RPG style gameplay to the young gamers.

I was initially surprised by how many young people can't grasp the idea of having to learn a game. Learning systems is something that doesn't make sense to them at all. They expect instant access to all of the gameplay, with an artificial progression tacked on.

If you really think about it, it's not surprising at all. Every game the average young player has access to does just that. Mobile games have about 5 minutes worth of gameplay, repeated over and over again to raise a number. Same could be said for simplified MMORPGs aimed at the mass market - a level 1 experience is essentially the same thing as level cap, except the damage numbers have a lot less zeros.

In contrast, looking back 10 or 20 years, most of the traditional RPGs changed gameplay as you went along. The learning curves were steeper and the process of learning was a good chunk of the fun. This is replaced in favour or games being more intuitive.

My 84 year old grandmother doesn't know how to send an e-mail (I taught here 4 times and she forgets I ever taught her before). She plays the simple mainstream MMOs without issues and enjoys them. She is a very smart lady, but I think it goes to show today's MMOs are simplified to the point that virtually anyone can pick one up.

Accessibility is generally good, but too much of it may lead to people forgetting what learning is. Then once you ask them to learn, they say "This isn't accessible enough."

I hope you take this article to heart when planning your game/s... it certainly seems to add an element to games that can keep one logging in(assuming they can bring themselves to log out...).

http://www.pcgamer.com/deleting-clutter-why-we-like-games-about-cleaning-up-messes/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0

holdenhamlet

Eh, if the MMO is content driven, it needs content updates.  It has nothing to do with "this generation" or whatever.  People are not stupid or something for wanting content updates in reasonable timeframes to MMORPGs.

"Dont come into a World and ask to be handed your fucking P.H.D
For some reason people think everybody needs to be number 1, well this aint your middle school soccer team or boy scouts where everybody gets a medal. You are not fucking special."

Jesus dude, you are mad.

CrazKanuk

While I tend to agree with the posts here lamenting over how MMOs have been stripped down, I completely disagree that this is due to greed. I think that people tend to forget that it's an industry, not a charity. Why would anyone spend millions of dollars for the promise of $0 return? Also, any company who is public has a responsibility to their shareholders to make money. 

There is zero empirical evidence suggesting that games with systems like those mentioned here (SWG, vanilla EQ) even have a place in the market today. These were games which existed in a vacuum for much of their existence. Once competitive products started popping up with less complicated mechanics, it was quite obvious that these games were successful due to a lack of options. 

That doesn't mean that there aren't games with old school mechanics being developed. There's Shroud of the Avatar, Pathfinder Online, The Repopulation. However, SotA has some 27k owners, with 1600 players in the past 2 weeks. The Repopulation has 44k owners with 650 players in the last 2 weeks. SWG Emu is a port of SWG that is supported by DBG, they basically said "Go with it! That's cool." They just gave them the thumbs up. Why? The populations of servers is in the hundreds, not even thousands. 

So while I can respect the arguments being made. While I can appreciate how some people would like to have some games with old school mechanics. The reality is that what people need to do is support the games that ARE out there and show that the market for these games amounts to more than a couple thousand people. Otherwise, what's the point of making that game? The only way you're going to make your money back is to sell boxes for $1000 each. Even at that you might not make your money back. So, again, not a charity. 

moonkiss

I agree with your said.  Too easy to get reward is not make us excit now.  All amazing things are just like suprise.  I was a fan of wow.  It has successful time, but it goes down now. Our views are changed  now.  
It was almost took all my time in game . Friend ,go . Game ,go .  ...
I have start play the division (i get it from scdkey. they told me to tell others about it ) and some mobile game now.   

johndoep

goboygo said:

I like what your saying ALLOT but devs want to sell boxes or sparkle ponies in the cash shop and to the largest crowd they can which happens to be the people your talking about.  Devs are no longer trying to make the best MMO they can they are trying to make the most profitable MMO they can.  The design philosophy is backwards. Developers  these days  design around cash flow not fun, creative, innovative hard ass but ultra rewarding work for the player.

The sad truth, but people have to make a living and let's face it, even if your game has all the heart in the world, there's still the risk of it flopping.