If you haven't figured it out--the question was answered in the 2nd
post. 2016 is the correct answer right now. But once 2016 gets
here--Next Year still applies. So, 2017 becomes the correct answer. If
you've been following the project from the start--"next year" has
always been the release date. CIG has been fairly consistent and I
don't expect the date to change.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
So based on your considerable knowledge of this game, what's the release date?
I can only offer you my personal opinion and it has not changed since November 2012.
My estimate is (and was) that it takes at least 5 years. That estimate was for the Persistent Universe. So that would place it at the end of 2017 ... most likely shortly before X-mas.
Squadron 42 would start before the PU ... my personal estimate would place it in the first quarter of 2017. MAYBE with a very early teaser ("Morrow tour" and maybe first 10 missions or so) coming out shortly before X-Mas 2016 (in line with the 2016 timetag on their SQ42 homepage).
However ... i hope they stick to the old rule "Its done when its done" and only release it when the product matches the vision. Like it has been done with "Witcher 3". I do not really care when exactly that is. I have some 200+ games to play on Steam and GoG to keep me entertained until SC launches.
Have fun
PS: In an earlier thread here on this subforum i also gave an estimate with respect to burn rate, timetable, available and required resources, projected income from pledges and SQ42 sales. That also puts the end date at end of 2017, beginning of 2018.
So based on your considerable knowledge of this game, what's the release date?
I can only offer you my personal opinion and it has not changed since November 2012.
Isnt it odd that a person with no real game development experience can predict the release date of the project better than the people behind it?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
So based on your considerable knowledge of this game, what's the release date?
I can only offer you my personal opinion and it has not changed since November 2012.
Isnt it odd that a person with no real game development experience can predict the release date of the project better than the people behind it?
Not really.
5 years is a good average for MMO's and games of this size. The last fallout was in development for about that time...and they were building on an already built engine, game world and assets.
I also think 5 years is about the norm. But constantly growing multiple projects can throw all that off. Hopefully with his latest announcement they will focus on launching current games and not so much on future expansions at this point.
All I want to do is fire up S42 and enjoy the finished game.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
However ... i hope they stick to the old rule "Its done when its done" and only release it when the product matches the vision. Like it has been done with "Witcher 3". I do not really care when exactly that is. I have some 200+ games to play on Steam and GoG to keep me entertained until SC launches.
But it's not going to be "when the project matches the vision", unless you're going to argue the vision is "minimum viable product". So, your point kinda sucks.
I found the phrase "commercial release" interesting, a further suggstion that they are now looking beyond Kickstarter (after "splitting" the product).
How many of the Kickstarter targets are met or not by such a release are somewhat irrelevant. Somewhat since you would expect the initial targets to be the basis of the core game.
So the key will be whether "non-backers" buy it or not. And all the other stuff that goes with a release: reviews, the business model, server stability, bugs, security and so forth.
Ehm, what?
Commercial release means release at which time the game will be available commercially - like all other games that aren't free to play.
It's not rocket science.
Reverse The Verse 8/4/2016 - "Depends what you mean by commercial launch. You
can buy the game right now, so technically it's been launched
commercially. Everything from before the Endeavour should be before the
end of the Beta."
Depends on whether you consider supporting a Kickstarter project to be the same as purchasing an available product. If you do then the game is already well placed with sales of whatever the current number is.
If - however - you consider commercial release to mean available to buy on Amazon etc. etc. then SC hasn't been available to buy. Not sure whether DKLond sees it this way as not and, for sure, there are products on KS that for all intents and purposes are there for advance purchases and publicity. (Clearly SC is not one of these!)
Now my view is that CR is talking about getting "something" to "some point" that can be "sold" independently of KS. I could be wrong, this is just my view.
However commercially this would make sense. At some point - prior to the game being finished - you want to bring the KS drive to a close. Why? Because it is reasonable for KS folk to get "some benefits" over and above non-backers. And of course the "using all the KS money to support the project" won't apply either so this will be a source of profit.
However drawing a line means an end to the current fund raising pipeline. So they will have to be reasonably confident and I suspect that people may still be able to sign up for the goals that are not met when the "minimum product" launches - joing other backers essentially. Could e atough call though, they may like to try "season passes" or even what Blizzard does - give us your pre-order money and assume that in a year we will release an expansion. (And people do!)
(And of course all KS backers will automatically get whatever is launched as part of whatever package they have signed up for.)
As I attempted to explain to Ryan Dancey before his Pathfinder Online disaster when he used the term: It is the CUSTOMER BASE that will determine what a Minimal Viable Product is. It has nothing to do with what a developer thinks.
Now, I haven't loaded up SC in months and even then it was LIGHTYEARS ahead of PFO, but lets be clear that it will the the customers who decide if a product meets the threshold of viability.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
So based on your considerable knowledge of this game, what's the release date?
I can only offer you my personal opinion and it has not changed since November 2012.
Isnt it odd that a person with no real game development experience can predict the release date of the project better than the people behind it?
Not really.
5 years is a good average for MMO's and games of this size. The last fallout was in development for about that time...and they were building on an already built engine, game world and assets.
What does that have to do with Erillion being able to predict the games release better than the people who are actually making it? Dont you think Chris Roberts with all his experience and contacts in the game industry would have predicted 5 years since it was so easy for you and Erillion to figure out?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Erillion said: [...] MAYBE with a very early teaser ("Morrow tour" and maybe first 10 missions or so) coming out shortly before X-Mas 2016 (in line with the 2016 timetag on their SQ42 homepage).
[...]
yiekes ... they hit the uncanny valley with the morrow tour ... I hope they'll fix this before the release.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
So based on your considerable knowledge of this game, what's the release date?
I can only offer you my personal opinion and it has not changed since November 2012.
Isnt it odd that a person with no real game development experience can predict the release date of the project better than the people behind it?
Not really.
5 years is a good average for MMO's and games of this size. The last fallout was in development for about that time...and they were building on an already built engine, game world and assets.
What does that have to do with Erillion being able to predict the games release better than the people who are actually making it? Dont you think Chris Roberts with all his experience and contacts in the game industry would have predicted 5 years since it was so easy for you and Erillion to figure out?
What makes you think he doesn't have a prediction and simply holds back revealing it?
Based on the overreaction squad here I think not committing to a deadline is the wisest thing to do.
Not as if it an unknown reaction to deadlines being missed for people to throw the toys out of the pram in childish angst now is it.
5 years is for a FULL BLOWN MMO, not some add on mod that was a stretch goal originally.
The 'aim' is to have it released this year. Pretty optimistic considering everything going on.
From a conspiracy stand point these guys have now switched modes. Theyre now in milk it mode and hope to just release stuff at a leisurely pace and continue to live the life style they have the past few years. Raise a few million a year put half of it into the game and use the other half for whatever. Pretty good plan actually. That is if you dont like conning people. But then again that could be semantics. Some people might not consider it a con, and some of the hardcore white knights figure these guys are entitled to live high on the hog.
I touched on the limitations of taking too long to make a game like this earlier. But the longer it takes for them to put stuff in the more dated the game becomes. The 5 years it has already taken has allowed games to already be released which are better. The only 'positive' for them is that they have so ruined the faith in crowd funding and backing of games no other company will ever be able to raise the amount of money they have going forward. So they made sure indie companies coming after them would have to secure funds some other way.
However ... i hope they stick to the old rule "Its done when its done" and only release it when the product matches the vision. Like it has been done with "Witcher 3". I do not really care when exactly that is. I have some 200+ games to play on Steam and GoG to keep me entertained until SC launches.
But it's not going to be "when the project matches the vision", unless you're going to argue the vision is "minimum viable product". So, your point kinda sucks.
edit: typo
Again.. 1) CR very clearly states that SC will launch with all systems in place.
2) Some of the latest stretch goals will be implemented after SC 1.0 release. Now, for a number of persons here playing ignorant the latest stretch goals consist mainly of ships, ship interior customization and one is about pets.
3) Go to the latest chairman video and start watching from 23:20. If you have trouble in comprehending spoken English i can write it down. Just let me know.
Same goes for the others here pretending ignorance.
Bonus: 22:16 CR casually mentions that they have moved from 32bit to 64bit math. Something your mentor claims as impossible.
So yeah, the project is steadily matching the vision.
So based on your considerable knowledge of this game, what's the release date?
I can only offer you my personal opinion and it has not changed since November 2012.
Isnt it odd that a person with no real game development experience can predict the release date of the project better than the people behind it?
Being a project manager helps.
And having watched the development of countless computer games over the last 30 years from an informed consumer perspective.
Being more of a realist than an optimist may have helped too. Not Molyneux enough ;-) But - to be honest - that is an acquired skill. My first project plans were hopelessly naive and optimistic. And tanked.
5 years is for a FULL BLOWN MMO, not some add on mod that was a stretch goal originally.
The 'aim' is to have it released this year. Pretty optimistic considering everything going on.
From a conspiracy stand point these guys have now switched modes. Theyre now in milk it mode and hope to just release stuff at a leisurely pace and continue to live the life style they have the past few years. Raise a few million a year put half of it into the game and use the other half for whatever. Pretty good plan actually. That is if you dont like conning people. But then again that could be semantics. Some people might not consider it a con, and some of the hardcore white knights figure these guys are entitled to live high on the hog.
I touched on the limitations of taking too long to make a game like this earlier. But the longer it takes for them to put stuff in the more dated the game becomes. The 5 years it has already taken has allowed games to already be released which are better. The only 'positive' for them is that they have so ruined the faith in crowd funding and backing of games no other company will ever be able to raise the amount of money they have going forward. So they made sure indie companies coming after them would have to secure funds some other way.
LOL you guys read far too much into everything!
Put on your tin foil hats because no matter what is said there is always a way to spin it using wild arse assumptions, guesswork and the always effective straight out lying.
You assume the game isn't an MMO. You assume release this year is optimistic. You assume they have switched modes. You assume they are in milk and hope mode. You assume they are not within their rights to earn a living and profit from their game. you assume they are conning people. You assume what people think is a con. You assume you know what constitutes and hardcore white knight. You assume these white knights think the team have extraordinary rights. You assume they are living high on the hog.
Some people assume that the CIG team people - especially the upper echelon - are "living the good life" with backer money.
I watch them every week/month on various v-blogs.
They often look like people in full crunch-mode. Not enough sleep. Not much of a work-life balance. Probably around 80 hour weeks. Not unusual for the computer gaming industry.
My personal opinion is - if THAT is "living the good life" - thank you, but NO Thank you !
At least recently they started to send the guys and gals off to some real downtime (e.g. X-mas/ New Year). A good decision in my book.
There IS a reason why i am not in the computer gaming industry ;-)
But in reality I think the VAST majority of gamers and potential players of this game know what is going on, as evidenced by the complete lack of interest in the game itself. I wish they gave numbers on how many people logged in this past weekend for that fly free event, I would bet anything more people post about the drama on the forums and twitter than actually logged into the game itself.
But in reality I think the VAST majority of gamers and potential players of this game know what is going on, as evidenced by the complete lack of interest in the game itself. I wish they gave numbers on how many people logged in this past weekend for that fly free event, I would bet anything more people post about the drama on the forums and twitter than actually logged into the game itself.
If you imply that being able to back your claims with actual info and data is "spinning" then indeed, we do spin it all the ways we want.
For reference check my above reply / quote to you with, guess what, links to footage. The second one is quite a catch. CR mentions like it is the most natural thing in the world that they have moved from 32bit to 64bit math. Which is a huge feet in itself.
Who was it that preached like a messiah that this is impossible to achieve ? Any clues ?
If you imply that being able to back your claims with actual info and data is "spinning" then indeed, we do spin it all the ways we want.
For reference check my above reply / quote to you with, guess what, links to footage. The second one is quite a catch. CR mentions like it is the most natural thing in the world that they have moved from 32bit to 64bit math. Which is a huge feet in itself.
Who was it that preached like a messiah that this is impossible to achieve ? Any clues ?
last comment 'they' never said it was impossible to do just impossible (too expensive) to implement. Mayh is math, the COST of it is what made it not worth doing. Big difference.
When they get an MMO sized world based on 64 bit math stabilized and able to handle the (dwindling) population this game was supposed to have let me know.
They havent even gotten it to work in a test phase yet.
As for all the 'assumptions' someone above keeps saying, mine are as good as yours, better actually considering theyre based on actual historical expectations.
Chris Roberts has probably made a thousand deadlines in his public life, if someone could find a single time in all those deadlines where he actually met one on time I would like to see it, as would everyone else. all those 'assumptions' are based on that and everything else they have and havent done over time, and not just in regards to Star Citizen.
People do realize this is not their game right? It is RSI's game. We are paying for the pleasure of experiencing their vision. Your vision matters not a bit, nor should it unless you are the one making the game.
We are entitled to a functional product, that is all. What that product looks like when it is done is 100% up to RSI. You own a COPY of the game when you purchase it, you do not own the game itself, kids.
People do realize this is not their game right? It is RSI's game. We are paying for the pleasure of experiencing their vision. Your vision matters not a bit, nor should it unless you are the one making the game.
We are entitled to a functional product, that is all. What that product looks like when it is done is 100% up to RSI. You own a COPY of the game when you purchase it, you do not own the game itself, kids.
On the contrary, it's the backer's game more than it is CIG's game. Without the backer's money being delivered up fron this project wouldn't have happened. Anyhow, Roberts said one of the key components about crowdfunding was how the backers would influence design decisions. So yes, the plot, the general design and the general direction of the game is wholely up to CIG, however certain aspects within that can be influenced by the backers.
As I attempted to explain to Ryan Dancey before his Pathfinder Online disaster when he used the term: It is the CUSTOMER BASE that will determine what a Minimal Viable Product is. It has nothing to do with what a developer thinks.
Now, I haven't loaded up SC in months and even then it was LIGHTYEARS ahead of PFO, but lets be clear that it will the the customers who decide if a product meets the threshold of viability.
Commercially, the minimum viable product will stand or fall by customer reception, this is true. However, every developer should have an MVP.
There seems to be a bit of misconception here as to what a minimum viable product really is. Like so many things on these forums, its been twisted to mean something else or given a negative connotation. Its nothing but a tradesman term meaning the basic product without the unnecessary components.
In a way, I think a lot of indie games could learn a lot from establishing not only a business plan, but a solid foundation for their game and an MVP. Far too often these days I see developers putting the cart before the horse and focusing on all the flashy "innovation" that they claim to be incorporating, without first creating the foundation that makes those accessories feasible.
Comments
Never mind I think I found my answer here.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/172478/
If you haven't figured it out--the question was answered in the 2nd post. 2016 is the correct answer right now. But once 2016 gets here--Next Year still applies. So, 2017 becomes the correct answer. If you've been following the project from the start--"next year" has always been the release date. CIG has been fairly consistent and I don't expect the date to change.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
My estimate is (and was) that it takes at least 5 years. That estimate was for the Persistent Universe. So that would place it at the end of 2017 ... most likely shortly before X-mas.
Squadron 42 would start before the PU ... my personal estimate would place it in the first quarter of 2017. MAYBE with a very early teaser ("Morrow tour" and maybe first 10 missions or so) coming out shortly before X-Mas 2016 (in line with the 2016 timetag on their SQ42 homepage).
However ... i hope they stick to the old rule "Its done when its done" and only release it when the product matches the vision. Like it has been done with "Witcher 3". I do not really care when exactly that is. I have some 200+ games to play on Steam and GoG to keep me entertained until SC launches.
Have fun
PS:
In an earlier thread here on this subforum i also gave an estimate with respect to burn rate, timetable, available and required resources, projected income from pledges and SQ42 sales. That also puts the end date at end of 2017, beginning of 2018.
5 years is a good average for MMO's and games of this size. The last fallout was in development for about that time...and they were building on an already built engine, game world and assets.
All I want to do is fire up S42 and enjoy the finished game.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
edit: typo
If - however - you consider commercial release to mean available to buy on Amazon etc. etc. then SC hasn't been available to buy. Not sure whether DKLond sees it this way as not and, for sure, there are products on KS that for all intents and purposes are there for advance purchases and publicity. (Clearly SC is not one of these!)
Now my view is that CR is talking about getting "something" to "some point" that can be "sold" independently of KS. I could be wrong, this is just my view.
However commercially this would make sense. At some point - prior to the game being finished - you want to bring the KS drive to a close. Why? Because it is reasonable for KS folk to get "some benefits" over and above non-backers. And of course the "using all the KS money to support the project" won't apply either so this will be a source of profit.
However drawing a line means an end to the current fund raising pipeline. So they will have to be reasonably confident and I suspect that people may still be able to sign up for the goals that are not met when the "minimum product" launches - joing other backers essentially. Could e atough call though, they may like to try "season passes" or even what Blizzard does - give us your pre-order money and assume that in a year we will release an expansion. (And people do!)
(And of course all KS backers will automatically get whatever is launched as part of whatever package they have signed up for.)
Now, I haven't loaded up SC in months and even then it was LIGHTYEARS ahead of PFO, but lets be clear that it will the the customers who decide if a product meets the threshold of viability.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Based on the overreaction squad here I think not committing to a deadline is the wisest thing to do.
Not as if it an unknown reaction to deadlines being missed for people to throw the toys out of the pram in childish angst now is it.
The 'aim' is to have it released this year. Pretty optimistic considering everything going on.
From a conspiracy stand point these guys have now switched modes. Theyre now in milk it mode and hope to just release stuff at a leisurely pace and continue to live the life style they have the past few years. Raise a few million a year put half of it into the game and use the other half for whatever. Pretty good plan actually. That is if you dont like conning people. But then again that could be semantics. Some people might not consider it a con, and some of the hardcore white knights figure these guys are entitled to live high on the hog.
I touched on the limitations of taking too long to make a game like this earlier. But the longer it takes for them to put stuff in the more dated the game becomes. The 5 years it has already taken has allowed games to already be released which are better. The only 'positive' for them is that they have so ruined the faith in crowd funding and backing of games no other company will ever be able to raise the amount of money they have going forward. So they made sure indie companies coming after them would have to secure funds some other way.
1) CR very clearly states that SC will launch with all systems in place.
2) Some of the latest stretch goals will be implemented after SC 1.0 release. Now, for a number of persons here playing ignorant the latest stretch goals consist mainly of ships, ship interior customization and one is about pets.
3) Go to the latest chairman video and start watching from 23:20. If you have trouble in comprehending spoken English i can write it down. Just let me know.
Same goes for the others here pretending ignorance.
Bonus:
So yeah, the project is steadily matching the vision.
And having watched the development of countless computer games over the last 30 years from an informed consumer perspective.
Being more of a realist than an optimist may have helped too. Not Molyneux enough ;-) But - to be honest - that is an acquired skill. My first project plans were hopelessly naive and optimistic. And tanked.
Have fun
Put on your tin foil hats because no matter what is said there is always a way to spin it using wild arse assumptions, guesswork and the always effective straight out lying.
You assume the game isn't an MMO.
You assume release this year is optimistic.
You assume they have switched modes.
You assume they are in milk and hope mode.
You assume they are not within their rights to earn a living and profit from their game.
you assume they are conning people.
You assume what people think is a con.
You assume you know what constitutes and hardcore white knight.
You assume these white knights think the team have extraordinary rights.
You assume they are living high on the hog.
You assume TOO damn much!
I watch them every week/month on various v-blogs.
They often look like people in full crunch-mode. Not enough sleep. Not much of a work-life balance. Probably around 80 hour weeks. Not unusual for the computer gaming industry.
My personal opinion is - if THAT is "living the good life" - thank you, but NO Thank you !
At least recently they started to send the guys and gals off to some real downtime (e.g. X-mas/ New Year). A good decision in my book.
There IS a reason why i am not in the computer gaming industry ;-)
Have fun
But in reality I think the VAST majority of gamers and potential players of this game know what is going on, as evidenced by the complete lack of interest in the game itself. I wish they gave numbers on how many people logged in this past weekend for that fly free event, I would bet anything more people post about the drama on the forums and twitter than actually logged into the game itself.
For reference check my above reply / quote to you with, guess what, links to footage. The second one is quite a catch. CR mentions like it is the most natural thing in the world that they have moved from 32bit to 64bit math. Which is a huge feet in itself.
Who was it that preached like a messiah that this is impossible to achieve ? Any clues ?
When they get an MMO sized world based on 64 bit math stabilized and able to handle the (dwindling) population this game was supposed to have let me know.
They havent even gotten it to work in a test phase yet.
As for all the 'assumptions' someone above keeps saying, mine are as good as yours, better actually considering theyre based on actual historical expectations.
Chris Roberts has probably made a thousand deadlines in his public life, if someone could find a single time in all those deadlines where he actually met one on time I would like to see it, as would everyone else. all those 'assumptions' are based on that and everything else they have and havent done over time, and not just in regards to Star Citizen.
[mod edit]
We are entitled to a functional product, that is all. What that product looks like when it is done is 100% up to RSI. You own a COPY of the game when you purchase it, you do not own the game itself, kids.
Anyhow, Roberts said one of the key components about crowdfunding was how the backers would influence design decisions. So yes, the plot, the general design and the general direction of the game is wholely up to CIG, however certain aspects within that can be influenced by the backers.
There seems to be a bit of misconception here as to what a minimum viable product really is. Like so many things on these forums, its been twisted to mean something else or given a negative connotation. Its nothing but a tradesman term meaning the basic product without the unnecessary components.
In a way, I think a lot of indie games could learn a lot from establishing not only a business plan, but a solid foundation for their game and an MVP. Far too often these days I see developers putting the cart before the horse and focusing on all the flashy "innovation" that they claim to be incorporating, without first creating the foundation that makes those accessories feasible.