I'm amused by their stance: Play on Modern Servers or GTFO. Would be nice if for once the company just swallowed their pride and offered classic server. You would think that the retained revenue and goodwill would be enough of an incentive but no. I imagine there is some slippery slope fear that crawls up their spine, "if we bend on this."
I don't think vanilla servers would retain or draw enough revenue to balance the costs of maintenance.
They'd have to have a customer support team just for classic servers. You'd have to have classic development and server teams.
You'll have a lot of people who visit classic but it largely won't be why they pay a sub fee. I also don't see Blizzard licensing out classic WoW, it'll make things messy.
I guess it comes down to bottom line and in the end that always wins. It's why we have the games we have now. They took the most simplistic MMORPG and made it even more simple and streamlined resulting in losses of subs over time and a backlash against the simplification that could be called angry nostalgia. How much money goes into advertising? Why is that somehow more important than retention of customers? We won't know the answer because streamlining (game and company) always wins. I can't help but feel that somehow the Peter principle is at work.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
No one is questioning the legality of it. I always find legality arguments with things like this asinine. "Being a dick about it" is sometimes usually perfectly legal.
Blizzard Entertainment, part of the Activision-Blizzard corporation, is a business. It makes decisions based on sound business practices designed to turn a profit. Companies are not in business to "be a dick" or < insert hyperbolic phrase >.
The letter at least offers a ray of hope to those clamoring for vanilla servers and even with that, it's not enough -- and pretty much why it's not happened before because, no matter what Blizzard does, it will never be enough to satisfy everyone. Even the olive branch is turned away.
baphamet said:
sorry but no, one is not a copy of the other, they are two completely different gaming experiences. they are the same in name only.
Oh, so the art and code used in pirate servers is just a "coincidence", right..?
that was not my point at all. i'm not saying they are not using copyrighted content that belongs to blizz and i'm not saying it should be legal for them to do so either.
but pretending it's a copy of the live version and thus stealing money from blizz is far from the truth. i have an analogy for you, that is like saying today's society is a copy of what it was like 50 years ago.
again, there is a reason why vanilla private servers are so popular and not WOD. if people were just trying to rip blizz off and play wow for free that is what you would see.
The dead horse might have flinched, so let us beat it for another thirty pages!
On a more serious note I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the zealots must understand something. It no longer matters how we preach on and present the evidence. Honestly I'm pretty sure it never mattered. And now Blizzard has given us the "Turtle Wax Friendship" speech that everyone who is jilted with gets. You know the speech I mean. That's where she/he looks at you with tearful doe eyes says, "I have to break up with you, but you're a great person! Please don't hate me! Can we still be friends?" That is just like on the game shows when they used to say, "Well you didn't win a million dollars, but we've got some nice promotional gifts for you like this case of Turtle Wax!" and then they quickly cut to commercial as they hustled this week's loser off the stage. Yikes! Thanks for nothing. Yet we all fall for it every time and mumble, "Ok" and then begin our quick, quiet fade into past relationship oblivion.
Blizzard's Turtle Wax statement will mollify everyone except the most strident "Vanilla WoW" server proponents and/or Blizzard opponents. Blizzard has politely handed this issue its hat and closed the door behind it quietly but firmly. It is all over except the shouting and we, dear fellow posters, are that shouting.
I'm sorry, but they're never coming back. Its time to let go and move on.
Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.
You are also not understanding what talent is if you think Blizzard still have by far the most active pay to play mmo in the world and no talent working on the game. I wish more teams would have the no talent they have and the polish this no talent team creates in a game.
On a side note, I find this statement from the letter very interesting and intriguing.
"One other note - we’ve recently been in contact with some of the folks who operated Nostalrius. They obviously care deeply about the game, and we look forward to more conversations with them in the coming weeks."
Now why on Earth would they be doing that?
Why would Blizzard be conversing with Pirates and Thieves?
baphamet said:
but this isn't the same as ripping off a movie from pirates bay that you could just go to the store and buy on blue ray. this is a service that you cannot get and blizzard refuses to offer it.
With the same logic, do you mind if just anyone break into your house and take anything that is "no longer available"?
Your argument is irrelevant since Blizzard is still the owner of the IP, regardless whether some form of it is available or not.
well i'm not in the business of selling items that are in my house, am i? not only that but if i did not want the item anymore? if i felt it was worthless and not worth my time to sell anymore? i would likely give it away or sell for dirt cheap at the very least.
blizz losses very little by allowing these private vanilla wow servers because it's a completely different game and they do not offer that game anymore. again, my argument is the vast majority of people that play on those servers do not want to play on live and they are damn sure not going to now.
my argument is indeed valid, people are not playing on the private servers just to get free wow, like so many of you are pretending is the case.
say what you want about it being their legal right, you are not wrong there.
I havent playted WoW regularly since right before BC was released.. Since then I have played maybe a week or two checking things out. If they brought a classic server back I would be playing again.
It would take much work for them to get it done no matter what they say. They should have an old version of the game in house in the archives and if not they can download one of many old clients that are out there. Then if there current server tech couldnt host the game spend a few months and make it work.
So instead of never they could have it up and running in 6 months or less. Profit.
how about the millions that have left since WOTLK? i guess those millions disagree with you and blizz? i understand the legal aspect of this, calling it piracy and all that.
Millions have left for any one of a thousand other reasons as I'm sure you can imagine. The game is nearly twelve years old and there is a lot more competition out there that coincidentally began about the time of WotLK. Your assumption that those "millions" would come back simply for the joy of playing on vanilla servers is doubtless not represented by the research that Blizzard has already (as stated in the letter) conducted. Would there be a bump in subs for a time? Perhaps, but I'd imagine significantly less than you imagine.
the same assumptions can be made about the people that have stayed as well. how many people that currently play the game complain about the direction its going or the current state of the game? how many of those are unaware of "legacy servers" or even know it's a possibility?
if i had to guess, the bump in subs would be significant at first, especially if these servers were released in conjunction with an expansion that marketed it correctly.
i'm not trying to condone illegal activities, i just think it's the right thing for blizz to do to either let nost do their thing (which effects the live servers very little IMO) or if they feel they are missing out on money, do it themselves and i would fully support that as well.
I don't think a pristine server would solve any of the hullabaloo.
I want to play Vanilla WoW. I don't want to play Vanilla WoW content with Warlords of Draenor mechanics, or even Legion Mechanics. I want the old talent trees, and the old content, and I want the LFG/R tools as far away from the game as possible.
Making a pristine server seems like spit shining a pile of shit, that is not what people have asked for.
Again, your entire argument fails based on the simple principle that other much smaller companies have already shown it can be done. Maybe EQ2 didn't do so well, but DAoC Classic sure did and EQ has done several iterations of progression servers. I'm pretty sure there are more than enough people interested in a classic WoW server to cover the costs needed to maintain it.
I'm glad you are enjoying WoW and yes, there's still millions of current subscribers. However, how many of those current subscribers would switch to a classic server if they actually launched, hmmm? Just because millions are still playing the current version, doesn't mean a lot of them wouldn't mind playing on a classic server.
Maybe they just don't feel like doing it because... whatever. Or are you saying because it's a gaming company they have to do what a loud minority wants them to do or they're dicks?
There's that weird gamer / developer imaginary democratic relationship again.
They do whatever the hell they feel like doing. You buy or don't buy. That's it. Even if they provide you with a forum where you can celebrate Festivus 365 days a year that still doesn't give you any kind of voting right on their board.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Again, whether you copy vanilla or WoW as of today, is irrelevant. They are the same thing, same property, same IP. It is still a theft.
LMFAO!
you just don't get it, i'm not arguing that it isn't illegal, it is. but saying it is a copy of vanilla because it is illegal? SMH
there is content in vanilla that literally no longer exists in wow. yes that content is still property of blizz, yes it is still illegal to host private wow servers.
my point is vanilla is not the same as WOD (or a copy), it's a totally different game experience. please try to follow along.
I have to say if they do get a legacy server going then this will be the first thing in years that Blizzard has done and failed. There is no way it will work for more then a month.
I don't think a pristine server would solve any of the hullabaloo.
I want to play Vanilla WoW. I don't want to play Vanilla WoW content with Warlords of Draenor mechanics, or even Legion Mechanics. I want the old talent trees, and the old content, and I want the LFG/R tools as far away from the game as possible.
Making a pristine server seems like spit shining a pile of shit, that is not what people have asked for.
The only thing I would want changed would be the Paladin mechanics back then.
Blizzard Entertainment, part of the Activision-Blizzard corporation, is a business. It makes decisions based on sound business practices designed to turn a profit. Companies are not in business to "be a dick" or < insert hyperbolic phrase >.
The letter at least offers a ray of hope to those clamoring for vanilla servers and even with that, it's not enough -- and pretty much why it's not happened before because, no matter what Blizzard does, it will never be enough to satisfy everyone. Even the olive branch is turned away.
And? Businesses can be dicks too. They do it all the time. Some dont and still make profits. Your point? When did I say any company goes into business "to be a dick"? Do you think businesses who lay off 1000s so the board members can get a bonus paycheck isnt being dick-ish? Im sure some "people" wouldnt bat an eye at it because its "well within their rights" but there are those with enough moral empathy to consider that act of screwing over 1000s for some unclear marginal gain to be "dickish."
Maybe if it wasnt a thinly veiled attempt to shut people up the olive branch wouldnt be turned away. Besides, they basically said no. They'll try to come up with some alternative maybe which not only misses the point entirely but also shows just how disconnected they are with their own players. Youre basically saying everyone should shut up and be happy because they couldve done worse.
As for hiring the Nost team, why on earth would they? It's like rewarding the guy who robbed you with a job at your Fortune 500 company.
This is actually done more frequently than people know of. Hackers are some of the most hired criminals after being caught. I've worked as a prosecutor for a year and am now a defense attorney and let me tell you, the people robbed/defrauded WANT TO KNOW how the perpetrator managed to accomplish the heist and sometimes offer them "security" jobs. The saying " it takes one to know one" reveals why and how these people can be useful.
Blizzard's war on private servers is like America's war on drugs, it can't be won. They think they are fighting tangible goods (drugs or servers) when in reality they are fighting human desires/interests (moderate drug consomption / wanting to play vanilla WoW).
This server has gone down, yet five more are probably being made as a consequence of this one closure.
Again, your entire argument fails based on the simple principle that other much smaller companies have already shown it can be done. Maybe EQ2 didn't do so well, but DAoC Classic sure did and EQ has done several iterations of progression servers. I'm pretty sure there are more than enough people interested in a classic WoW server to cover the costs needed to maintain it.
I'm glad you are enjoying WoW and yes, there's still millions of current subscribers. However, how many of those current subscribers would switch to a classic server if they actually launched, hmmm? Just because millions are still playing the current version, doesn't mean a lot of them wouldn't mind playing on a classic server.
Maybe they just don't feel like doing it because... whatever. Or are you saying because it's a gaming company they have to do what a loud minority wants them to do or they're dicks?
There's that weird gamer / developer imaginary democratic relationship again.
They do whatever the hell they feel like doing. You buy or don't buy. That's it. Even if they provide you with a forum where you can celebrate Festivus 365 days a year that still doesn't give you any kind of voting right on their board.
the hilarious thing is, blizz is notorious for caving to the "whiners" it is what got us to this point to begin with, well part of the reason.
sometimes companies should just do the right thing, even if it is in their legal right to be dicks. it's not like these are uncharted waters, DBG did exactly what blizz refuses to do and they got praised for it.
one thing is obvious to me, this move didn't protect their money, if anything they lost customers because of it so i hope it was worth it for them.
I have to say if they do get a legacy server going then this will be the first thing in years that Blizzard has done and failed. There is no way it will work for more then a month.
care to elaborate? nost was out for almost a year and only growing, which is why blizz took action.
Again, your entire argument fails based on the simple principle that other much smaller companies have already shown it can be done. Maybe EQ2 didn't do so well, but DAoC Classic sure did and EQ has done several iterations of progression servers. I'm pretty sure there are more than enough people interested in a classic WoW server to cover the costs needed to maintain it.
I'm glad you are enjoying WoW and yes, there's still millions of current subscribers. However, how many of those current subscribers would switch to a classic server if they actually launched, hmmm? Just because millions are still playing the current version, doesn't mean a lot of them wouldn't mind playing on a classic server.
Maybe they just don't feel like doing it because... whatever. Or are you saying because it's a gaming company they have to do what a loud minority wants them to do or they're dicks?
There's that weird gamer / developer imaginary democratic relationship again.
They do whatever the hell they feel like doing. You buy or don't buy. That's it. Even if they provide you with a forum where you can celebrate Festivus 365 days a year that still doesn't give you any kind of voting right on their board.
the hilarious thing is, blizz is notorious for caving to the "whiners" it is what got us to this point to begin with, well part of the reason.
sometimes companies should just do the right thing, even if it is in their legal right to be dicks. it's not like these are uncharted waters, DBG did exactly what blizz refuses to do and they got praised for it.
one thing is obvious to me, this move didn't protect their money, if anything they lost customers because of it so i hope it was worth it for them.
They can cave to whiners. They can refuse to cave to whiners. They can even appear to cave to whiners without caving to whiners. And they can change their policy on whiner-caving whenever they want. And all you can do about it is whine about whiner-caving or the lack thereof. That's reality.
But things being as they are, I'm sure they would run it pass their PR spin doctors and make it all sound a lot nicer than the way I said it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
The letter at least offers a ray of hope to those clamoring for vanilla servers and even with that, it's not enough -- and pretty much why it's not happened before because, no matter what Blizzard does, it will never be enough to satisfy everyone. Even the olive branch is turned away.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What talent?
No content in 14 months and facebook like mechanics. Scumbags
but pretending it's a copy of the live version and thus stealing money from blizz is far from the truth. i have an analogy for you, that is like saying today's society is a copy of what it was like 50 years ago.
again, there is a reason why vanilla private servers are so popular and not WOD. if people were just trying to rip blizz off and play wow for free that is what you would see.
On a more serious note I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the zealots must understand something. It no longer matters how we preach on and present the evidence. Honestly I'm pretty sure it never mattered. And now Blizzard has given us the "Turtle Wax Friendship" speech that everyone who is jilted with gets. You know the speech I mean. That's where she/he looks at you with tearful doe eyes says, "I have to break up with you, but you're a great person! Please don't hate me! Can we still be friends?" That is just like on the game shows when they used to say, "Well you didn't win a million dollars, but we've got some nice promotional gifts for you like this case of Turtle Wax!" and then they quickly cut to commercial as they hustled this week's loser off the stage. Yikes! Thanks for nothing. Yet we all fall for it every time and mumble, "Ok" and then begin our quick, quiet fade into past relationship oblivion.
Blizzard's Turtle Wax statement will mollify everyone except the most strident "Vanilla WoW" server proponents and/or Blizzard opponents. Blizzard has politely handed this issue its hat and closed the door behind it quietly but firmly. It is all over except the shouting and we, dear fellow posters, are that shouting.
I'm sorry, but they're never coming back. Its time to let go and move on.
Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.
On a side note, I find this statement from the letter very interesting and intriguing.
"One other note - we’ve recently been in contact with some of the folks who operated Nostalrius. They obviously care deeply about the game, and we look forward to more conversations with them in the coming weeks."
Now why on Earth would they be doing that?
Why would Blizzard be conversing with Pirates and Thieves?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
well i'm not in the business of selling items that are in my house, am i? not only that but if i did not want the item anymore? if i felt it was worthless and not worth my time to sell anymore? i would likely give it away or sell for dirt cheap at the very least.
blizz losses very little by allowing these private vanilla wow servers because it's a completely different game and they do not offer that game anymore. again, my argument is the vast majority of people that play on those servers do not want to play on live and they are damn sure not going to now.
my argument is indeed valid, people are not playing on the private servers just to get free wow, like so many of you are pretending is the case.
say what you want about it being their legal right, you are not wrong there.
Again, whether you copy vanilla or WoW as of today, is irrelevant. They are the same thing, same property, same IP. It is still a theft.
its amazing how many times threads on MMORPG.COM go in circles after the second page. rehashing the same points from earlier pages.
-it is theft, it isn't theft
-millions would play it/millions won't play it
-this isn't wow/ it is wow idiot
-I remember blah blah blah/I remember how much I hated blah blah blah
-blizzard lies!/ blizzard is a business model that only thinks in terms of return of profit.
-troll on wife's/ wife is great.
there's your summary.
It would take much work for them to get it done no matter what they say. They should have an old version of the game in house in the archives and if not they can download one of many old clients that are out there. Then if there current server tech couldnt host the game spend a few months and make it work.
So instead of never they could have it up and running in 6 months or less. Profit.
No to a pristine server
Yes to a Legacy Server
the same assumptions can be made about the people that have stayed as well. how many people that currently play the game complain about the direction its going or the current state of the game? how many of those are unaware of "legacy servers" or even know it's a possibility?
if i had to guess, the bump in subs would be significant at first, especially if these servers were released in conjunction with an expansion that marketed it correctly.
i'm not trying to condone illegal activities, i just think it's the right thing for blizz to do to either let nost do their thing (which effects the live servers very little IMO) or if they feel they are missing out on money, do it themselves and i would fully support that as well.
I want to play Vanilla WoW. I don't want to play Vanilla WoW content with Warlords of Draenor mechanics, or even Legion Mechanics. I want the old talent trees, and the old content, and I want the LFG/R tools as far away from the game as possible.
Making a pristine server seems like spit shining a pile of shit, that is not what people have asked for.
There's that weird gamer / developer imaginary democratic relationship again.
They do whatever the hell they feel like doing. You buy or don't buy. That's it. Even if they provide you with a forum where you can celebrate Festivus 365 days a year that still doesn't give you any kind of voting right on their board.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
you just don't get it, i'm not arguing that it isn't illegal, it is. but saying it is a copy of vanilla because it is illegal? SMH
there is content in vanilla that literally no longer exists in wow. yes that content is still property of blizz, yes it is still illegal to host private wow servers.
my point is vanilla is not the same as WOD (or a copy), it's a totally different game experience. please try to follow along.
And? Businesses can be dicks too. They do it all the time. Some dont and still make profits. Your point? When did I say any company goes into business "to be a dick"? Do you think businesses who lay off 1000s so the board members can get a bonus paycheck isnt being dick-ish? Im sure some "people" wouldnt bat an eye at it because its "well within their rights" but there are those with enough moral empathy to consider that act of screwing over 1000s for some unclear marginal gain to be "dickish."
Maybe if it wasnt a thinly veiled attempt to shut people up the olive branch wouldnt be turned away. Besides, they basically said no. They'll try to come up with some alternative maybe which not only misses the point entirely but also shows just how disconnected they are with their own players. Youre basically saying everyone should shut up and be happy because they couldve done worse.
As for hiring the Nost team, why on earth would they? It's like rewarding the guy who robbed you with a job at your Fortune 500 company.
This is actually done more frequently than people know of. Hackers are some of the most hired criminals after being caught. I've worked as a prosecutor for a year and am now a defense attorney and let me tell you, the people robbed/defrauded WANT TO KNOW how the perpetrator managed to accomplish the heist and sometimes offer them "security" jobs. The saying " it takes one to know one" reveals why and how these people can be useful.
Blizzard's war on private servers is like America's war on drugs, it can't be won. They think they are fighting tangible goods (drugs or servers) when in reality they are fighting human desires/interests (moderate drug consomption / wanting to play vanilla WoW).
This server has gone down, yet five more are probably being made as a consequence of this one closure.
sometimes companies should just do the right thing, even if it is in their legal right to be dicks. it's not like these are uncharted waters, DBG did exactly what blizz refuses to do and they got praised for it.
one thing is obvious to me, this move didn't protect their money, if anything they lost customers because of it so i hope it was worth it for them.
But things being as they are, I'm sure they would run it pass their PR spin doctors and make it all sound a lot nicer than the way I said it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED