Fuzzy Math scares me

Shodanas

Wizardry said:

Op forgot one area or two.
That is Chris's wife and BOTH their constant desire to be hollywood stars,Chris more so likes to play Hollywood manager.I am sure no matter what he has said in the past,these constant cravings are costing the game a LOT of millions,that are NOT coming out of his own accounts.
When i saw how he and his 2 cohorts maneuvered those stocks they sold to the company,i was instantly skeptical of anything and everything this guy does.

Have you considered looking for work in the tabloids ? I think you would excel in such an environment.

howstupidisthis

For you guys who keep bringing up the list of goals and how that didn't add to the game or justify the money, you are forgetting the deep and amount of ships has grown 100 times.
We were never going to get this many ships or the level of fidelity we are getting now.
It's funny about the goons, they may talk crap about SC now, but they will all move over when SC is released.

filmoret

filmoret said:

Babuinix said:

Well I guess you haven't been keeping up with news about PG in Star Citizen

- Think about PG planets with atmosphere, oceans, mountains, jungles looking like a Crysis.
- PG Asteroids in huge sizes with caves, tunnels, abandoned outposts.
- Volumetric Gas giants etc

That is a lot of work.  Did they list that anywhere in the stretch goals?  This is the kind of answers that should be more clear to people asking simple questions.  I guess they could have added that stuff later probably would have been a lot easier.

Is there anyone who can help prove or disprove this?  I would love some links as to when they decided to go with this kind of build instead of something else.

Gestankfaust

Fuzzy poop scares me

Babuinix

filmoret said:

filmoret said:

Babuinix said:

Well I guess you haven't been keeping up with news about PG in Star Citizen

- Think about PG planets with atmosphere, oceans, mountains, jungles looking like a Crysis.
- PG Asteroids in huge sizes with caves, tunnels, abandoned outposts.
- Volumetric Gas giants etc

That is a lot of work.  Did they list that anywhere in the stretch goals?  This is the kind of answers that should be more clear to people asking simple questions.  I guess they could have added that stuff later probably would have been a lot easier.

Is there anyone who can help prove or disprove this?  I would love some links as to when they decided to go with this kind of build instead of something else.

It's been talked ever since the German Office opened.

To cut a long story short:
Basically what happened was when CIG were joined by the ex-Crytek dev's in 2015 (Foundry42 Frankfurt) they got themselves access to new groundbreaking tech that was developed on the side by them and that very few people knew about because they never had the need/opportunity to use them in their past games (consoles limitations, free2plays fps's, linear stuff etc). We are talking about top top cryengine engineers, and when I say top it's the cream of the crop as in some of the original dev's that wrote the original code from CryEngine, well they even wrote the first concept drafts on paper. We are talking about Marco Corbetta, Carsten Wenzel and other's. CryEngine is their baby basically and they are now pushing it further than anyone can imagine. For more insight check 10FTDevs with Sean Tracy & Brian Chambers interviews.

@ 37:31

@ 27:00

Then we have other top guys like Caleb Essex in VFX, Chris Raine in Physics, Francesco in AI etc.

I think they might show something really significant in their CitizenCon Event in October.

frostymug

Babuinix said:

Squadron 42 is well on it's way, like all SP games you won't know much about it before completion. (How much have you seen of Mass Effect:Andromeda?) If you can't deal with it it's your problem not CIG.

Persistence is already being used in the Private Test servers. Quests, Shopping, Repairs etc all cost/earn you game credits.

Just because some don't want to see it doesn't mean its not happening.

I remember when Bioware and EA were talking about how open the development process was going to be for ME:A and using it as a selling point. Good comparison!

They have both delayed so I guess there's that

rodarin

Babuinix said:

filmoret said:

filmoret said:

Babuinix said:

Well I guess you haven't been keeping up with news about PG in Star Citizen

- Think about PG planets with atmosphere, oceans, mountains, jungles looking like a Crysis.
- PG Asteroids in huge sizes with caves, tunnels, abandoned outposts.
- Volumetric Gas giants etc

That is a lot of work.  Did they list that anywhere in the stretch goals?  This is the kind of answers that should be more clear to people asking simple questions.  I guess they could have added that stuff later probably would have been a lot easier.

Is there anyone who can help prove or disprove this?  I would love some links as to when they decided to go with this kind of build instead of something else.

It's been talked ever since the German Office opened.

To cut a long story short:
Basically what happened was when CIG were joined by the ex-Crytek dev's in 2015 (Foundry42 Frankfurt) they got themselves access to new groundbreaking tech that was developed on the side by them and that very few people knew about because they never had the need/opportunity to use them in their past games (consoles limitations, free2plays fps's, linear stuff etc). We are talking about top top cryengine engineers, and when I say top it's the cream of the crop as in some of the original dev's that wrote the original code from CryEngine, well they even wrote the first concept drafts on paper. We are talking about Marco Corbetta, Carsten Wenzel and other's. CryEngine is their baby basically and they are now pushing it further than anyone can imagine. For more insight check 10FTDevs with Sean Tracy & Brian Chambers interviews.

@ 37:31

@ 27:00

Then we have other top guys like Caleb Essex in VFX, Chris Raine in Physics, Francesco in AI etc.

I think they might show something really significant in their CitizenCon Event in October.

This has to be yet another bought account by a SC fanboy; history of it is totally out of control.

But all that is just talk and has been for years, they claim to do all sorts of stuff, they have actually shown jack and shit to prove any of the claims they have. The only thing they have done to even hint they have something that might actually be something is some super secret test bed that has an NDA. What does a crowd funded game need with an NDA? Other than to keep people from saying that the stuff they have been trying to say is happening isnt and what they do have is a complete broken mess. And a 'test' group that has to give everything from blood to a DNA sample to participate in. Not very shady or questionable at all. Its so over the top that it might not even be real and they made it that outrageous to make it look like they actually had something they needed to protect. But of course that is the onsiracy theorist in me again.

But we dont have to go nearly that far. All we need to do, as I said is wait for them to either make an actual persistent game world in any format and/or actually deliver a product for sale, presumably SQ 42. If one of those two things doesnt happen before they (yet again) change directions and claim theyre focusing on something else THEN we can start with the 'its a total scam' talk (again). Because they have now painted themselves in a corner with all the minimal viable product talk and saying that now theyre finally getting serious and going to deliver (the watered down version of) SQ 42.

And by the way them making not so fancy videos without much of anything isnt actually proof you know its just more propaganda and rhetoric.

Thats why I said there really isnt anything left to talk about on either side until one of those three things happen...they release SQ 42, they release a persistent game world (and add to it on occasion), or they change their minds and claim theyre focusing on something else that isnt one of those two things. Thats it, this is where ts put up or shut up time.

Babuinix

Pro camp? Well excuse me for being a gamer for 25 years now lol Is that really bothering you that people that played other games are looking into Star Citizen? Are you a gamer for any chance? You should know

Btw aren't you a backer? Because right now you can check the 64 bit map for yourself, just fly around and see how long you take to find the "end" of the map lol

It seems you really don't understand how games are made and don't really like seeing the sausage getting made. Here's an idea, why don't you step back and just wait in the sidelines until the game releases, just stick with what you like instead of making stuff up as you go to suit your narrative for a change lol, because you already proved to know very little of game development and from what I've seen in this Star Citizen forum you have nothing to add besides wrong assumptions and fake assumptions written as "facts".

Either way nothing changes for the game development , it takes the time that it needs to take.

As my old man used to say " The dogs bark, but the caravan does on"

Kefo

Babuinix said:

Pro camp? Well excuse me for being a gamer for 25 years now lol Is that really bothering you that people that played other games are looking into Star Citizen? Are you a gamer for any chance? You should know

Btw aren't you a backer? Because right now you can check the 64 bit map for yourself, just fly around and see how long you take to find the "end" of the map lol

It seems you really don't understand how games are made and don't really like seeing the sausage getting made. Here's an idea, why don't you step back and just wait in the sidelines until the game releases, just stick with what you like instead of making stuff up as you go to suit your narrative for a change lol, because you already proved to know very little of game development and from what I've seen in this Star Citizen forum you have nothing to add besides wrong assumptions and fake assumptions written as "facts".

Either way nothing changes for the game development , it takes the time that it needs to take.

As my old man used to say " The dogs bark, but the caravan does on"

Ah yes another person who spews out the "you don't understand game development" argument. I hope you don't talk about anything else on these forums or in your life if you haven't gone to school for or don't have years of experience behind otherwise you're just a massive hypocrite.

 You don't need to have a intimate understanding of game dev to know that this project is having major issues. 

Babuinix

You don't need to go to school or even know what you talk about, everyone can say anything, more so on the internet. The thing is, if you want to be taken seriously you need to back what you say with logic & facts and proven examples of the reality.



Talking trash is easy, let's see some logic and factual thoughts behind it for a change.

Kefo

Babuinix said:

You don't need to go to school or even know what you talk about, everyone can say anything, more so on the internet. The thing is, if you want to be taken seriously you need to back what you say with logic & facts and proven examples of the reality.



Talking trash is easy, let's see some logic and factual thoughts behind it for a change.

Alright here's some facts. The companies Chris Roberts was in charge of in the past were epic failures. His game company never released a single game while it was operational. He has a history of over promising and under delivering or not delivering at all.

Knowing that we can extrapolate the above data and it's a pretty safe bet that Chris is on track to follow what he does best, over promise, and under deliver and this time there won't be a Microsoft sitting on the sidelines to buy him out

Babuinix

Sorry but Wing Commander, Privater and Freelancer are all aclaimed sucessfull games/franchises with a metacritic of about 8.5. Very far away from "epic failures" lol.

He always aims high so every game he delivers despite not reaching for everything he wanted to allways end up being very good to say the least! Why do you think Chris Roberts/Star Citizen got so much funding? Because it's "epic failures" ? Explain that please.

Nice try tough. I'm eager for more of that "logic"

Kefo

Babuinix said:

Sorry but Wing Commander, Privater and Freelancer are all aclaimed sucessfull games/franchises with a metacritic of about 8.5. Very far away from "epic failures" lol.

He always aims high so every game he delivers despite not reaching for everything he wanted to allways end up being very good to say the least! Why do you think Chris Roberts/Star Citizen got so much funding? Because it's "epic failures" ? Explain that please.

Nice try tough. I'm eager for more of that "logic"

Try reading what I wrote before responding please. This way I don't have to waste my time repeating myself. My logic is quite sound actually, it's just your reading comprehension is a little off

Erillion

Kefo said:

Alright here's some facts. The companies Chris Roberts was in charge of in the past were epic failures. His game company never released a single game while it was operational. He has a history of over promising and under delivering or not delivering at all.

Knowing that we can extrapolate the above data and it's a pretty safe bet that Chris is on track to follow what he does best, over promise, and under deliver and this time there won't be a Microsoft sitting on the sidelines to buy him out

Facts ? Here are facts:

If Chris Roberts is such a failure, explain such videos as

"Legends of Game Design"

"During 1997's Computer Game Developer's Conference (CGDC), Johnny Wilson was the host of a talk with Nolan Bushnell, John Romero, and Chris Roberts."




or why IGN has voted Chris Roberts to be one of the 100 most important game developers of all times (and did it in 2009, a time he was not even active as a game designer).

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_(Spieleentwickler)

"....2009 wurde er vom US-amerikanischen Online-Spielemagazin IGN zu den 100 bedeutendsten Spieleentwicklern aller Zeiten gezählt...."


Have fun

Kefo

Erillion said:

Kefo said:

Alright here's some facts. The companies Chris Roberts was in charge of in the past were epic failures. His game company never released a single game while it was operational. He has a history of over promising and under delivering or not delivering at all.

Knowing that we can extrapolate the above data and it's a pretty safe bet that Chris is on track to follow what he does best, over promise, and under deliver and this time there won't be a Microsoft sitting on the sidelines to buy him out

Facts ? Here are facts:

If Chris Roberts is such a failure, explain such videos as

"Legends of Game Design"

or why IGN has voted Chris Roberts to be one of the 100 most important game developers of all times (and did it in 2009, a time he was not even active as a game designer).

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_(Spieleentwickler)

"....2009 wurde er vom US-amerikanischen Online-Spielemagazin IGN zu den 100 bedeutendsten Spieleentwicklern aller Zeiten gezählt...."


Have fun

See my above response to Babuinix please. 

Erillion

Kefo said:

See my above response to Babuinix please. 

Saw it and it was a non answer both times.

The "under-deliverer" is credited with some of the most well known computer games.


Have fun

rodarin

Babuinix said:

You don't need to go to school or even know what you talk about, everyone can say anything, more so on the internet. The thing is, if you want to be taken seriously you need to back what you say with logic & facts and proven examples of the reality.



Talking trash is easy, let's see some logic and factual thoughts behind it for a change.

LMAO logic and facts. Its called spin.

Critics have the fact that the game has been delayed YEARS, for various reasons. The pro camp claims those delays are 'logical' because of 'normal' game development. But the pro camp only cites what Chris Roberts claimed himself not what people expected. So all the pro camp is doing is showing that Chris Roberts himself doesnt understand game development apparently since he was the one that set all those dates that havent come close to being met.

Theyre going to (hopefully for them) release a mod that was originally a stretch goal perk in a version that isnt close to what even that mod was supposed to be at least 2 years after the MMO portion of the game was supposed to be released. Now you could possibly spin the "they rebuilt the engine'' argument somewhat but not when they claim they had that done in less than 6 months. What they had done in 6 months was the math, they surely didnt have the engine so once again their own misinformation held them to a higher standard than hey would have been had they simply been up front.

In Dec 2015 they claimed they had persistence figured out and ready, In their April 2016 (posted yesterday) they claimed they implemented the first iteration of it. So 4/5 months from when they figured it out until they actually (claim) they have it on some internal test server some where (the capability or 'size' of that server is completely unknown) but they claimed they have it somewhere where they can test it. Those are THEIR claims not the critics. So when is it acceptable to expect a public version of  this?  A Year? Six months? They claim it will be implemented in 2.4. I doubt that highly unless they just keep going down the 2.3.x line And each 'x' is a new integer. So now theyre on 2.3.1 (I think) so the next one whenever that is will be 2.3.2 and so on. And if they get to 2.3.9 and dont have persistence in a presentable state expect to see 2.3.91 and so on. Or they might just delay it until some other version. So they have set themselves up yet again. Its OK ot take time but dont make schedules you know you cant keep. Seriously if they JUST put in the first version they have ever tried of it this past month then how realistic is to expect it in a WORKING format in a short time frame? Especially when it took them about 5 months from when they cllaimed they had it to when they actually (again claimed) they implemented it?

EVERY critique of this game (mine anyway) and how its going is based first on what they claim and what they (dont) deliver and how long it is between claim and (delay) delivery.

The only thing they have actually delivered are new ship models, which I suppose is good for the people who bought the jpegs but it certainly isnt proof theyre actually make the game to put them in. Sure you have a broken temporary test bed to fly them in, but that is a ong long long long way from any actual MMO sized everlasting game world to use them for more than fighting (not so variable) NPCs in tiny instances you get to by clicking on a triangle on your screen not actually flying to a space and finding them flying there. Well I guess that instance was delivered as well, but if anyone thinks that is a major accomplishment doesnt have very high expectations.

Babuinix

Game development and Delays go hand in hand, you must be new to gaming if that surprises you. I might be mistaking trolling with bitterness, envy or plain ignorance but this is going nowhere.

Liars will keep on being called out that's for sure.

Erillion

@rodarin ;
>>>>But the pro camp only cites what Chris Roberts claimed himself not what people expected. >>>

Counting myself as member of the pro-camp i do not need to cite Chris Roberts for a time estimate on SC. My time estimate started with 5 years in December 2012  (putting SC launch day at the end of 2017) and it is still that date i predict. I can only speak for my personal group of friends and SC backers and they had similar estimates. So THAT is what people expected after the huge success (and growth) by the end of 2012.

>>>Theyre going to (hopefully for them) release a mod that was originally a stretch goal perk in a version that isnt close to what even that mod was supposed >>>

If you believe Squadron 42 to be only a perk you have not understood the Star Citizen project even a tiny bit.

>>>They claim it will be implemented in 2.4. I doubt that highly unless they just keep going down the 2.3.x line And each 'x' is a new integer. So now theyre on 2.3.1 (I think) so the next one whenever that is will be 2.3.2 and so on. And if they get to 2.3.9 and dont have persistence in a presentable state expect to see 2.3.91 and so on. >>>

Yesterday came calling.

Current version being tested: Alpha 2.4. Patch notes available in this sub forum.

Have a nice read.


Have fun

Kefo

Babuinix said:

Game development and Delays go hand in hand, you must be new to gaming if that surprises you. I might be mistaking trolling with bitterness, envy or plain ignorance but this is going nowhere.

Liars will keep on being called out that's for sure.

Lol but keep ignoring the facts I posted earlier

Erillion

Kefo said:

Babuinix said:

Game development and Delays go hand in hand, you must be new to gaming if that surprises you. I might be mistaking trolling with bitterness, envy or plain ignorance but this is going nowhere.

Liars will keep on being called out that's for sure.

Lol but keep ignoring the facts I posted earlier

What, the facts where you claim that Chris Roberts under-delivers ?

The "under-deliverer" is credited with some of the most well known computer games. Guess why ?



Have fun

Babuinix

Kefo said:

Babuinix said:

Game development and Delays go hand in hand, you must be new to gaming if that surprises you. I might be mistaking trolling with bitterness, envy or plain ignorance but this is going nowhere.

Liars will keep on being called out that's for sure.

Lol but keep ignoring the facts I posted earlier

What facts?

rodarin

Erillion said:

@rodarin ;
>>>>But the pro camp only cites what Chris Roberts claimed himself not what people expected. >>>

Counting myself as member of the pro-camp i do not need to cite Chris Roberts for a time estimate on SC. My time estimate started with 5 years in December 2012  (putting SC launch day at the end of 2017) and it is still that date i predict. I can only speak for my personal group of friends and SC backers and they had similar estimates. So THAT is what people expected after the huge success (and growth) by the end of 2012.

>>>Theyre going to (hopefully for them) release a mod that was originally a stretch goal perk in a version that isnt close to what even that mod was supposed >>>

If you believe Squadron 42 to be only a perk you have not understood the Star Citizen project even a tiny bit.

>>>They claim it will be implemented in 2.4. I doubt that highly unless they just keep going down the 2.3.x line And each 'x' is a new integer. So now theyre on 2.3.1 (I think) so the next one whenever that is will be 2.3.2 and so on. And if they get to 2.3.9 and dont have persistence in a presentable state expect to see 2.3.91 and so on. >>>

Yesterday came calling.

Current version being tested: Alpha 2.4. Patch notes available in this sub forum.

Have a nice read.


Have fun

You love links so much so you know they said the game was going to be released in Nov of 2015 stop being disingenuous. 

SQ 42 was (before they took it down) listed as a stretch goal, it was SUPPOSED to be a co op but it isnt now. Also supposed to have Star Marine in it. As well as other stuff I cant remember because the original claims have been removed. I am sure someone has it somewhere though.

Yea I know what they claim, but they have claimed a lot of things. So many that they still do it. If they truly dont plan on releasing a new update until they have persistence figured out then they dont plan on delivering an update any time soon. Oh NVM I see the disclaimer...SOME persistence, Damage, Crime status, and pay to win purchase. Not an actual persistence as most would define it. But it will be interesting to see the desync. But then again with not many people playing I doubt it will be horrendous.

But at least theyre getting some thing in I guess.

Kefo

Erillion said:

Kefo said:

Babuinix said:

Game development and Delays go hand in hand, you must be new to gaming if that surprises you. I might be mistaking trolling with bitterness, envy or plain ignorance but this is going nowhere.

Liars will keep on being called out that's for sure.

Lol but keep ignoring the facts I posted earlier

What, the facts where you claim that Chris Roberts under-delivers ?

The "under-deliverer" is credited with some of the most well known computer games. Guess why ?



Have fun

That's the only take away eh? I posted more than one you know.

I would hazard a guess that he is credited with the most well known computer games because he had someone higher up than him telling him to stop day dreaming and get to work. Chances are if Chris Roberts tried to make a game now without first having the history of origin behind him he would be laughed out of the industry.

rpmcmurphy

Why do you guys need to defend him as though he's your dad?

Sure the bloke has brought out or endorsed games which have been enjoyable but that doesn't make him a messiah. Despite his achievements he is widely regarded as a person that over-promises/under-delivers akin to Peter Molyneaux.
When he left EA he hasn't had the best of successes, DA was a flop, one game was released under the DA label and that was coded out-of-house, his time in movie directing wasn't really notable.

That's all fair assessment and because of those things some people are rather sceptical about his promises this time, as soon as reality starts biting people point to it (MVP) and that's fair enough because if you're going to brag about something and then not achieve that level of braggadocio then people are going to call you out on it.

It's the yes men and the revisionists that are the problem for companies, every company needs criticism albeit constructive criticism.