In L2 there were players who were so deep in the hole they had become perma-red. Yet this didn't stop griefing. Their plan sounds good on paper, only time will tell how it does in real world testing.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I don't think it will stop griefing , sounds like a guarantee of 10 months per spark for $30. comparing it to WoW at $15 a month its realy not a big deal.
If you keep griefing over and over, your $30 Spark could last 1 real week if you keep getting penalized. Hope you understand now. It WILL work, specially for those PK/Griefing Kids that can't afford it. Sure there are immature adults with money that like to Grief, but they are far and few compared to the Kids.
Best Anti-Griefing mechanic I have seen. Awesome Job CoE!!! :awesome:
You 'can' be taken to jail. 'Can' isn't the same as 'will'. To me it sounds like if you go into the cities, you are likely be caught and thrown into jail, so the griefers will just stay out of cities and have a mule bring them the stuff they need/want from town. Invincible autokill teleporting guards didn't stop it in UO, why does anyone think this system will work?
I don't think it will stop griefing , sounds like a guarantee of 10 months per spark for $30. comparing it to WoW at $15 a month its realy not a big deal.
If you keep griefing over and over, your $30 Spark could last 1 real week if you keep getting penalized. Hope you understand now. It WILL work, specially for those PK/Griefing Kids that can't afford it. Sure there are immature adults with money that like to Grief, but they are far and few compared to the Kids.
Best Anti-Griefing mechanic I have seen. Awesome Job CoE!!! :awesome:
You 'can' be taken to jail. 'Can' isn't the same as 'will'. To me it sounds like if you go into the cities, you are likely be caught and thrown into jail, so the griefers will just stay out of cities and have a mule bring them the stuff they need/want from town. Invincible autokill teleporting guards didn't stop it in UO, why does anyone think this system will work?
For one they will have to buy multiple games/spark of life. just to have a mule. two i think contracts will help some in this situation.. you can actually make a physical contract with other players to guard/escort you while you do things in dangerous areas.
They also stated that they will change the penalty of any crime that gets out of hand on there live stream... if murder becomes so rampant they could change the penalty to perma death for murder.
there will always be griefers, That shouldn't prevent them from making the game they want. they seem to want to keep the server friendly, let them try
What I'm surprised at is how many people think the position of "security guard" is going to be attractive enough to convince people to do it with any regularity.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the safe bet here is to realize if you don't like unexpected PVP this game is not for you.
And this is some of our complaint.....WHere is our newer MMO that doesnt force PVP on us?
It's not a reasonable complaint. I don't want to play a pvp game either and I'm sure not touching a permadeath game with a $30 recharge fee on it, but that's their game. It's the game they want to make and to complain it's not the game you want them to make isn't reasonable.
There are always trends in game development. One of the big mmo trends with indies right now is survival and pvp. It's cheaper to make a pvp game. It's low hanging fruit for indies so that's what they're going with. Hopefully we'll see a resurgence in PvE focused games again.
So in a game that you will get more play time for you money then a subscription game you wont try it. It seems like so many people are getting hung up on the words instead of what the function of it is.
I think the safe bet here is to realize if you don't like unexpected PVP this game is not for you.
And this is some of our complaint.....WHere is our newer MMO that doesnt force PVP on us?
Agree. When that game comes, I think it will be very popular for many folks. I want to sandbox in peace. Of course there should be PvP in some fashion since many like this aspect. But being ganked out of the blue while I'm fishing, gathering, crafting, no thanks. What I'm reading about CoE makes me uneasy.
I'll probably try this game at some point since it sounds fascinating. It most likely will be a one time purchase with not much money commitment beyond the bare minimum (exactly how I'm playing BDO at the moment). Find me a sandbox game though without forced PvP, then I will be an enormous whale who will gladly support the game financially!
You can still sandbox in peace in PVP oriented games.. especially when there is a big world, dying is pretty rare and coming across PVP doesn't even happen that much... its so easy to avoid once you become familiar with the game.
When there are no instances and an open world in a sandbox manner you can easily work with other people to ensure that entire areas are PVP free. Your clan may have a bot setup that alarms you when someone is comes to the entrance of your dungeon, for example..
From what you say, its like you don't even try... or maybe you just want to solo PVE in a MMORPG?
I've played with girls that don't like PVP and sure they may have been ganked a few times... but considering that they played day to day for months its practically nothing to complain about. People would even leave them alone because they knew that they were just girl PVE players..
I remember Darkfall forums people would whine that they wanted to play the game but couldn't handle the possibility of getting killed and looted... meanwhile my girlfriend is playing the heavily populated game and getting killed like once every month or something simply because she knows where to go and how to play. Later on it became once every other month.
Its like you don't even try.
Sandbox means you share the world. You can create a safe haven somewhere in every game of its kind.
The community will eventually flag you as a PVE or PVP player because you share the world and they will get to know you whether they like it or not. Many times people would kill me but let my girlfriend live because they knew that I liked PVP and she did not.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
What I'm surprised at is how many people think the position of "security guard" is going to be attractive enough to convince people to do it with any regularity.
Won't be happening folks....
Honest Question: Does this happen in EVE? Not sure if anyone acts a a mercenary protector because I stopped paying attention to that game a long time ago. I would imagine not unless they are a RL friend because EVE has no penalty for betrayal or ganking, and EVE culture rewards fucking people over.
The test of it will be whether contracts are binding, NPC police work, and Spark penalties are highly punishing. Someone will grief, because people start forest fires, blow up airplanes full of people, hurt children, etc. If the criminal element runs the game then the EVE players get to hold a sword in a game I guess and everyone else will find something else to do. It doesn't seem like this is Soulbound's aim though.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
You 'can' be taken to jail. 'Can' isn't the same as 'will'. To me it sounds like if you go into the cities, you are likely be caught and thrown into jail, so the griefers will just stay out of cities and have a mule bring them the stuff they need/want from town. Invincible autokill teleporting guards didn't stop it in UO, why does anyone think this system will work?
For one they will have to buy multiple games/spark of life. just to have a mule. two i think contracts will help some in this situation.. you can actually make a physical contract with other players to guard/escort you while you do things in dangerous areas.
It sounds like rather than worry about mules, some of those neutral smuggler types would rise up and create a nice black market for dealing with criminals. It sounds like a career that will thrive.
Griefers will always be there, in any game, PVE or PVP. I honestly hate griefing more in PVE games than PVP ones. At least in PvP, if you can't retaliate, usually someone stronger will pass through and help out. In PVE games, you are generally just screwed and unable to do anything to retaliate.
I'm not sure why everyone only associates griefing with PVP -- I've seen it in every single PVE game I've played.
You can still sandbox in peace in PVP oriented games.. especially when there is a big world, dying is pretty rare and coming across PVP doesn't even happen that much... its so easy to avoid once you become familiar with the game. ... I've played with girls that don't like PVP and sure they may have been ganked a few times... but considering that they played day to day for months its practically nothing to complain about. People would even leave them alone because they knew that they were just girl PVE players..
...meanwhile my girlfriend is playing the heavily populated game and getting killed like once every month or something simply because she knows where to go and how to play. Later on it became once every other month.
...
Sandbox means you share the world. ...
The community will eventually flag you as a PVE or PVP player because you share the world and they will get to know you whether they like it or not. Many times people would kill me but let my girlfriend live because they knew that I liked PVP and she did not.
LoL ! That's hilarious! Ok, jokes aside, I'm not a female, and I've never seen a community on a pvp server/game act that way, though I've been told over and over that they do. I've begun to suspect it's a desperate line they throw out hoping to snag some noob for dinner. On those pvp things, I've had a few fights that were just fights. I've had a few more that I saw them first and was prepared if they attacked. But most of the time, it's a high powered character getting a surprise attack with his 3 high powered buddies in a starting area on a noob locked into a gathering action, stuck in npc chat windows, or otherwise unable to react. Not that it much mattered because they usually start off with some kind of stun ability, and before that wears off you're already dead. Is that not all of PvPers? You say that's just a select few bad eggs? Well guess what. Those are the ones thrown at your face right off the bat more often than not in my experience. So it makes you all look like rabid gankers. Oh I've heard the whine that real people are more of a challenge than AI. Well then why the heck are they doing everything to eliminate any chance for the noobs? That's not a challenge, that's tossing dynamite in a barrel of dead fish and claiming those fish were challenging to kill. Whether you like it or not, games, like everything else, has churn. That's people leaving, and new people coming in. Well when the first thing that happens to the new players is they get ganked, over and over, a lot of them will just leave and never look back. Then the game numbers fall to just the hardcore faithful, and the game eventually shut down because there aren't just enough PvPers to support most games by themselves. To make it on just the core PvPers, you have to be a really great game, which unfortunately doesn't include most games. Eve is a great example of one that is successful. Of course, as I've mentioned before, I've tried them. All three times I've tried, I've made a character, and got ganked in the noob sector in under a half hour. Then made a character for the next faction, and same thing happens. Same with the remaining two factions, then I quit Eve until the next time I decide to try with a trial. Three trials I've had this same exact thing play out. Sure, maybe I have awful luck, or then again, maybe the PvP crowd has too many game destructive players or tendencies that cause this to happen. Then there's always that, "Hey, just get some buddies to help you out and protect you". Wow, why didn't I think of that? Maybe it has something to do with being new to the game and not knowing anyone. Maybe I don't get to actually meet anyone I trust before the gankfest of noobs commences. Maybe nobody out their likes playing nursemaid to noobs! Well there's always join a guild. That does help some in most games, but here's the thing, they usually don't pick up total noobs unless it's a totally desperate looser guild, which doesn't have the manpower to babysit noobs anyway. They sometimes make exceptions for people they know. That means not someone new to the game. Well, that goes the new blood, because that means alt, not actual newcomers. Of course, the really big problem with guilds is they don't want you, especially on PvP game, until you are powerful enough and skilled enough to hold your own. You know, when you don't need help nearly as much. So yeah, find a friend isn't going to freaking help unless you recruit a lot of people to join you at the same time in a game, and that's not going to happen until you convince them it's great, and telling them I get killed everytime I log on isn't going to convince them to play.
Short version, this game has non-consensual pvp. That sucks for a lot of us. Any game that has you level up to a certain point, and then it becomes non-consensual pvp is just a lousy bait and switch. And yeah, pvp seems to be an addon marketing point these days, and the pvp anywhere is all the rage with devs. For those of us that aren't into the gankfest, it totally sucks. If you don't like that, maybe you should take some humanity classes. You don't like that we don't consent to be your target practice dummy? You get upset that we don't want to be your whipping boy and say so? Again, take some freaking humanity classes because you're 1 pip away from becoming and npc buddy.
So please, drop your false righteous indignation and try to understand that someone in the same world not being PvP takes nothing away from PvP as they can't attack you either, and so are not in competition on the PvP standings. And it's not being a wuss, or lousy at PvP, it's like the flavor of icecream, some like vanilla swirled with caramel, and some like picking on virtually defenseless noobs.
Yeah, I was kind of negative towards Griefers & PvPers, but some of you are really starting to get your fur up over people that don't want to be your easy prey. Look at it this way, non-pvp players also tend to lean towards crafting and that kind of stuff. If they could do that unmolested, you'd probably have a much more lively trade action going on.
If you don't like getting ganker and don't want to pvp, of you pve centered and play on EU, you might want to consider the order of the back Fang.
We are recruiting and are an order of knights sword to uphold the law. Gankers on our land will be killed off quickly and viciously. We have space for those that like pvp, or hate pvp. We also won't force a specific play style.
If your interested check us out on the COE forums (can't like on my phone sorry)
I find it odd when developers offer FFA PVP in their game design, and then go overboard coming up with rules and designs to severely limit people doing it.
Just create a PVE only server and be done with it. Then the PVP server can be more of a murderfest for those who prefer that style.
"Real PVPers" don't need "sheep" to prey on, only gankers do.
Short version, this game has non-consensual pvp. That sucks for a lot of us. Any game that has you level up to a certain point, and then it becomes non-consensual pvp is just a lousy bait and switch. And yeah, pvp seems to be an addon marketing point these days, and the pvp anywhere is all the rage with devs. For those of us that aren't into the gankfest, it totally sucks. If you don't like that, maybe you should take some humanity classes. You don't like that we don't consent to be your target practice dummy? You get upset that we don't want to be your whipping boy and say so? Again, take some freaking humanity classes because you're 1 pip away from becoming and npc buddy.
So please, drop your false righteous indignation and try to understand that someone in the same world not being PvP takes nothing away from PvP as they can't attack you either, and so are not in competition on the PvP standings. And it's not being a wuss, or lousy at PvP, it's like the flavor of icecream, some like vanilla swirled with caramel, and some like picking on virtually defenseless noobs.
Yeah, I was kind of negative towards Griefers & PvPers, but some of you are really starting to get your fur up over people that don't want to be your easy prey. Look at it this way, non-pvp players also tend to lean towards crafting and that kind of stuff. If they could do that unmolested, you'd probably have a much more lively trade action going on.
Sorry I guess I really don't know what you have been through or whatever. Sounds like you've had some rough times? I admit that I may favor sandboxes with PVP and its hard for me to say that PVP is a problem when there are PVPers running around looking for it and cannot find it . ... its pretty safe to PVE in all of them unless the game had just come out or something.
In a game like AoC ffa server I understand because the world is smaller and you always come across people camping at the first PVP spawn point but in a sandbox it seems like there is always somewhere you can go to be safe.. and yes joining a good guild is part of that but its mostly the size of the world that helps because I can always find good spots where I am left alone when I want to be and there are so many things about a game that you can learn and use to avoid PVP if you want to. Sure you have to risk exploring and playing long enough to figure out and its dangerous and fun at first but why not?
You may not be able to just join a guild right away but if you tough it out long enough to join a good guild in one sandbox, you can usually play other sandboxes with the same people and contacts and help?
In the first Darkfall it was impossible to PVP with a good player who was avoiding it.. he could just bunny hop away and then water log, maybe turn and parry your attacks in the air while at it lol. Also you could learn things like you would lag out when it meant someone was coming. My girlfriend would just log off for 5 minutes and always be okay when she came back in when that happened. She would only get killed when she would play with me because Id want to fight.
Even in AoC you could kite at portals and stuff, stun or stealth and run, etc.
Once a guild tried to camp me out of the game at a chaos city in Darkfall (no protection or friends)... there was on average of dozen of them online at all times it seemed like and they would try to bindstone camp my corpse until I quit.... but I didn't give up and it was easy to scare them away and I chased them out of the city and this was how.. I would log in, pick my direction, and autorun then log out. Thank god for the invulnerability shield hehe.. I would log right back in, pick a direction, and log out again. Log right back in, jump in the water, log out (water log), be back at the bindstone, run the other direction, log out.... give it 5-10 minutes, log in... sneak to a nearby spawn to get some arrows and a bow (since Id be naked unable to get to a bank) then I'd spy on them and wait for one of them to be away from the others or to have low health... then Id pop him and loot him and bank it then water log before they could catch me... hahaha it felt so good... and this was a rinse and repeat process... 1 person against like 30? They had to move away because they kept losing gear. Again the city was mine (and my girlfriend and brother) and I had the funnest 3 days chasing them out!! After that nobody dared live in this chaod city unless they obeyed our rules and didnt kill our citizens.
My point is that you can tough it out and learn the tricks of the game, non of them are perfect. Does it lag when someone comes near? Can you post someone to watch? Do you have friends in the area?
Vanguard could have been considered a sandbox because open world no instances... and you might lag when someone was coming, like in most games, but yeah there was nowhere to hide really because I would find you... lol thanks to /who all in every zone. I would never grief someone out of the game though, just take their infamy then leave them alone (unless they were talking garbage). I guess that is the meanest game that I can think of because you couldn't get away from people sometimes. With a bard in your group you would be fine though. rallos zek was pretty hardcore griefers lol if you are talking about that than I understand but sandboxes today are different..
Oh yeah that's another thing... don't react to them and act like you are having fun if you are absolutely stuck with it.. its so much harder to kill someone who doesn't run...
When it comes down to it I like having to deal with abusive people.. but from being used to it I know so many tricks in games to totally avoid PVP and I sware its way easier than you may think.
Sorry I type fast and wanted to share my stories of the most times that I was griefed.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
CoE doesn't seems to encourage PVP wayyyyy less than all of the games that I mentioned.. so avoiding PVP is probably easy. Sure you might die once in awhile but c'mon. They are getting punished for it... its not like they are advertising this game for gankers. If you are getting killed a lot than wait a month and play after the release crowd has gone? I still don't see that happening though.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
You can still sandbox in peace in PVP oriented games.. especially when there is a big world, dying is pretty rare and coming across PVP doesn't even happen that much... its so easy to avoid once you become familiar with the game. ... I've played with girls that don't like PVP and sure they may have been ganked a few times... but considering that they played day to day for months its practically nothing to complain about. People would even leave them alone because they knew that they were just girl PVE players..
...meanwhile my girlfriend is playing the heavily populated game and getting killed like once every month or something simply because she knows where to go and how to play. Later on it became once every other month.
...
Sandbox means you share the world. ...
The community will eventually flag you as a PVE or PVP player because you share the world and they will get to know you whether they like it or not. Many times people would kill me but let my girlfriend live because they knew that I liked PVP and she did not.
Short version, this game has non-consensual pvp. That sucks for a lot of us. Any game that has you level up to a certain point, and then it becomes non-consensual pvp is just a lousy bait and switch.
Then i suggest you choose one of the 100 games that fit your playstyle and let the one's that enjoy risk vs reward and non-consensual PvP have at least 1 game that suit their playstyle. Have been looking for a game like old UO since EA destroyed the game with Age of Shadows february 2003 and this one seems promising.
Every game isn't for everyone and rest assure developers wont risk financially by catering to the more hardcore PvP players cause we are way more then most understand.
What I'm surprised at is how many people think the position of "security guard" is going to be attractive enough to convince people to do it with any regularity.
Won't be happening folks....
It happened in Face of Mankind, though. You will understand why if you watch the first 30 seconds of the following video and look at the player's objectives on the right side of the screen (0:13 - 0:29).
It really depends how developers set it up. In Face of Mankind there was a Law Enforcement Department faction whose goals were all about enforcing the laws, patrolling the streets, scanning citizens for drugs and illegal weapons, arresting and shipping criminals to a prison planet and guarding the prison planet, conducting internal investigations on corruption within the police force, doing detective work on tricky cases, protecting politicians, collaborating with global intelligence agents and the army, and so on.
Yet another odd mechanic in a game full of them. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
One scenario is 60 members of a griefing clan could target a player and significantly shorten their lifespan, perhaps driving them from the game repeatedly.
The article you quoted won't stop what Kyleran is talking about. So you get a 2 hour window of relief from losing part of your spark, that does not mean greifers won't continue to 'knock you out' or follow you around for 2 hours just to do it again, or more likely just ensure they kill you every time they see you.
I have played many PvP games, some with harsh penalties and I have never seen any system prevent greifing on a large scale. Having said that, I believe this system has the most potential to do so, and I sincerely hope it works well. Don't misunderstand me I am in no way hating on this game, just trying to take the tint out of the rose colored glasses of the people that think this is the end of greifing. It won't be, just be prepared.
It does look interesting and I will be giving it a go as I have time to do so.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
They'll have to be pretty good to keep following you around. You can respawn at a different point in order to avoid corpse camping and such things. If they're that good at tracking, they probably deserve the kill!
lunawisp was my peacebringer in City of Heroes. She lives on, in memory, as my gaming id
They'll have to be pretty good to keep following you around. You can respawn at a different point in order to avoid corpse camping and such things. If they're that good at tracking, they probably deserve the kill!
They'd have to be pretty good at knowing who you are, due to disguises and no name plates (per developers ideals) as well. Not to mention they state the game world was pretty big at once point. So tracking down one person in a big world once you lost them is pretty tough
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I don't think it will stop griefing , sounds like a guarantee of 10 months per spark for $30. comparing it to WoW at $15 a month its realy not a big deal.
If you keep griefing over and over, your $30 Spark could last 1 real week if you keep getting penalized. Hope you understand now. It WILL work, specially for those PK/Griefing Kids that can't afford it. Sure there are immature adults with money that like to Grief, but they are far and few compared to the Kids.
Best Anti-Griefing mechanic I have seen. Awesome Job CoE!!! :awesome:
You 'can' be taken to jail. 'Can' isn't the same as 'will'. To me it sounds like if you go into the cities, you are likely be caught and thrown into jail, so the griefers will just stay out of cities and have a mule bring them the stuff they need/want from town. Invincible autokill teleporting guards didn't stop it in UO, why does anyone think this system will work?
Because the invincible autokill teleporting guards didn't relentlessly hunt down players like dogs and raze their homes when they found them, taking everything they had
Yet another odd mechanic in a game full of them. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
One scenario is 60 members of a griefing clan could target a player and significantly shorten their lifespan, perhaps driving them from the game repeatedly.
The article you quoted won't stop what Kyleran is talking about. So you get a 2 hour window of relief from losing part of your spark, that does not mean greifers won't continue to 'knock you out' or follow you around for 2 hours just to do it again, or more likely just ensure they kill you every time they see you.
I have played many PvP games, some with harsh penalties and I have never seen any system prevent greifing on a large scale. Having said that, I believe this system has the most potential to do so, and I sincerely hope it works well. Don't misunderstand me I am in no way hating on this game, just trying to take the tint out of the rose colored glasses of the people that think this is the end of greifing. It won't be, just be prepared.
It does look interesting and I will be giving it a go as I have time to do so.
You don't respawn on your body exactly. You're allowed to respawn away from it.
Also, that's 2 hours you have to contact friends over discord and let them know you need help, or walk to the nearest city and ask for their help.
Unless you pitched up deep in the wilderness alone (bad idea), there will be options.
What I'm surprised at is how many people think the position of "security guard" is going to be attractive enough to convince people to do it with any regularity.
Won't be happening folks....
So you've clearly never played darkfall, where the entire population eagerly takes the position of "security guard" when they are passively dueling or hanging out in their cities.
But they're more apt to refer to themselves simpler as "pvpers".
Standing armies in this game -- the pvpers -- are going to be waiting for the call to fight while they do other things in game (duel, train, making money, etc). All it takes is for someone to jump channels in Teamspeak and yell "THERE'S LIKE 5 GUYS AT MY COTTAGE CHASING ME I NEED HELP".
Then everyone in the channel will (hopefully) respond and come to his defense.
Agree. When that game comes, I think it will be very popular for many folks. I want to sandbox in peace. Of course there should be PvP in some fashion since many like this aspect. But being ganked out of the blue while I'm fishing, gathering, crafting, no thanks. What I'm reading about CoE makes me uneasy.
I'll probably try this game at some point since it sounds fascinating. It most likely will be a one time purchase with not much money commitment beyond the bare minimum (exactly how I'm playing BDO at the moment). Find me a sandbox game though without forced PvP, then I will be an enormous whale who will gladly support the game financially!
There a ton of those games, but you guys always make the same complaints....LOL!
You love the game, but hate the PvP, but refuse to play any other game and when we ask you why, you repeat yourself, saying it's because you love the game. There is only 2 options here, ether you love pvp and you're just afraid to admit because you suck at it or you have this need to destroy all pvp games because you suck at them. I'm leaning towards the latter
EDIT: For example, we are already hearing the same complaints about Star Citizen, and the game is barely out of Alpha. I'm convinced you guys are out to destroy games you suck at, or else you would leave us alone, there are plenty of games that cater just for you. Stop lying about it
There is a third option. You mention it in the first sentence of your second paragraph but you fail to take it into consideration because it doesn't fit your self-serving troll narrative. And that is because they love the game, but hate forced non-consensual PvP, period. No one refuses to play any other game. As a matter of fact, the large majority of PvEers eventually do exactly that once they reach the point in which they are forced to PvP, and once enough of them leave to do exactly that, the game dies shortly thereafter.
Does it ever occur to the PvP-centric players that perhaps those players that don't want to deal with forced non-consensual PvP is because what really sucks in those MMORPGs is the manner in which players are forced into non-consensual PvP. So it has nothing to do with sucking at those games, as you say, and everything to do because they dont want to deal with the toxic, rude, obnoxious and inconsiderate PvP-centric asshats in those games.
The only games that PvEers like and want to play that have PvP in them are the ones that have a good measure of PvE content and have optional PvP, and they like those games primarily for their PvE content, not their PvP content. You don't see PvEers in fail OWPvP-centric games such as Mortal Online, Darkfall, etc, do you? If developers really wanted to develop PvP games for the OWPvP-centric players they would stop developing games that draw in the PvE players, and their money, with fifty levels of nothing but PvE content, only to do a bait and switch on them and force them to become PvP fodder/content at end game to make a buck. Because we all know that any forced non-consensual OWPvP game without money by the majority PvE gamer demographic is a non-starter fail MMORPG.
You proved my point perfectly!
First you call me a troll, a sign of a weak argument, then you go about whining that the game forces you to PvP. Nobody forced you to buy that game, and yet you still claim that game is forcing you to PvP?? Your argument has NO logical reasoning whatsoever.
If your in the centre of towns doing pve stuff your probably safe from gankers. If your going out into the wilderness where the gankers will have to live you will have some pretty fierce mobs there. So you have four choices: 1) go into the wilds and kill the fierce mobs and PvPers because you have trained well. 2)take some pc guards because you are an pc who hasn't specialised in combat 3)die to the monsters well before you see a ganker 4) stay near town where it's safe
Comments
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
They also stated that they will change the penalty of any crime that gets out of hand on there live stream... if murder becomes so rampant they could change the penalty to perma death for murder.
there will always be griefers, That shouldn't prevent them from making the game they want. they seem to want to keep the server friendly, let them try
Won't be happening folks....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When there are no instances and an open world in a sandbox manner you can easily work with other people to ensure that entire areas are PVP free. Your clan may have a bot setup that alarms you when someone is comes to the entrance of your dungeon, for example..
From what you say, its like you don't even try... or maybe you just want to solo PVE in a MMORPG?
I've played with girls that don't like PVP and sure they may have been ganked a few times... but considering that they played day to day for months its practically nothing to complain about. People would even leave them alone because they knew that they were just girl PVE players..
I remember Darkfall forums people would whine that they wanted to play the game but couldn't handle the possibility of getting killed and looted... meanwhile my girlfriend is playing the heavily populated game and getting killed like once every month or something simply because she knows where to go and how to play. Later on it became once every other month.
Its like you don't even try.
Sandbox means you share the world. You can create a safe haven somewhere in every game of its kind.
The community will eventually flag you as a PVE or PVP player because you share the world and they will get to know you whether they like it or not. Many times people would kill me but let my girlfriend live because they knew that I liked PVP and she did not.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
The test of it will be whether contracts are binding, NPC police work, and Spark penalties are highly punishing. Someone will grief, because people start forest fires, blow up airplanes full of people, hurt children, etc. If the criminal element runs the game then the EVE players get to hold a sword in a game I guess and everyone else will find something else to do. It doesn't seem like this is Soulbound's aim though.
Griefers will always be there, in any game, PVE or PVP. I honestly hate griefing more in PVE games than PVP ones. At least in PvP, if you can't retaliate, usually someone stronger will pass through and help out. In PVE games, you are generally just screwed and unable to do anything to retaliate.
I'm not sure why everyone only associates griefing with PVP -- I've seen it in every single PVE game I've played.
Ok, jokes aside, I'm not a female, and I've never seen a community on a pvp server/game act that way, though I've been told over and over that they do. I've begun to suspect it's a desperate line they throw out hoping to snag some noob for dinner.
On those pvp things, I've had a few fights that were just fights. I've had a few more that I saw them first and was prepared if they attacked. But most of the time, it's a high powered character getting a surprise attack with his 3 high powered buddies in a starting area on a noob locked into a gathering action, stuck in npc chat windows, or otherwise unable to react. Not that it much mattered because they usually start off with some kind of stun ability, and before that wears off you're already dead.
Is that not all of PvPers? You say that's just a select few bad eggs? Well guess what. Those are the ones thrown at your face right off the bat more often than not in my experience. So it makes you all look like rabid gankers.
Oh I've heard the whine that real people are more of a challenge than AI. Well then why the heck are they doing everything to eliminate any chance for the noobs? That's not a challenge, that's tossing dynamite in a barrel of dead fish and claiming those fish were challenging to kill.
Whether you like it or not, games, like everything else, has churn. That's people leaving, and new people coming in. Well when the first thing that happens to the new players is they get ganked, over and over, a lot of them will just leave and never look back. Then the game numbers fall to just the hardcore faithful, and the game eventually shut down because there aren't just enough PvPers to support most games by themselves. To make it on just the core PvPers, you have to be a really great game, which unfortunately doesn't include most games. Eve is a great example of one that is successful. Of course, as I've mentioned before, I've tried them. All three times I've tried, I've made a character, and got ganked in the noob sector in under a half hour. Then made a character for the next faction, and same thing happens. Same with the remaining two factions, then I quit Eve until the next time I decide to try with a trial. Three trials I've had this same exact thing play out.
Sure, maybe I have awful luck, or then again, maybe the PvP crowd has too many game destructive players or tendencies that cause this to happen.
Then there's always that, "Hey, just get some buddies to help you out and protect you". Wow, why didn't I think of that? Maybe it has something to do with being new to the game and not knowing anyone. Maybe I don't get to actually meet anyone I trust before the gankfest of noobs commences. Maybe nobody out their likes playing nursemaid to noobs!
Well there's always join a guild. That does help some in most games, but here's the thing, they usually don't pick up total noobs unless it's a totally desperate looser guild, which doesn't have the manpower to babysit noobs anyway. They sometimes make exceptions for people they know. That means not someone new to the game. Well, that goes the new blood, because that means alt, not actual newcomers.
Of course, the really big problem with guilds is they don't want you, especially on PvP game, until you are powerful enough and skilled enough to hold your own. You know, when you don't need help nearly as much.
So yeah, find a friend isn't going to freaking help unless you recruit a lot of people to join you at the same time in a game, and that's not going to happen until you convince them it's great, and telling them I get killed everytime I log on isn't going to convince them to play.
Short version, this game has non-consensual pvp. That sucks for a lot of us. Any game that has you level up to a certain point, and then it becomes non-consensual pvp is just a lousy bait and switch.
And yeah, pvp seems to be an addon marketing point these days, and the pvp anywhere is all the rage with devs. For those of us that aren't into the gankfest, it totally sucks. If you don't like that, maybe you should take some humanity classes. You don't like that we don't consent to be your target practice dummy? You get upset that we don't want to be your whipping boy and say so? Again, take some freaking humanity classes because you're 1 pip away from becoming and npc buddy.
So please, drop your false righteous indignation and try to understand that someone in the same world not being PvP takes nothing away from PvP as they can't attack you either, and so are not in competition on the PvP standings. And it's not being a wuss, or lousy at PvP, it's like the flavor of icecream, some like vanilla swirled with caramel, and some like picking on virtually defenseless noobs.
Yeah, I was kind of negative towards Griefers & PvPers, but some of you are really starting to get your fur up over people that don't want to be your easy prey. Look at it this way, non-pvp players also tend to lean towards crafting and that kind of stuff. If they could do that unmolested, you'd probably have a much more lively trade action going on.
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
We are recruiting and are an order of knights sword to uphold the law. Gankers on our land will be killed off quickly and viciously.
We have space for those that like pvp, or hate pvp. We also won't force a specific play style.
If your interested check us out on the COE forums (can't like on my phone sorry)
In a game like AoC ffa server I understand because the world is smaller and you always come across people camping at the first PVP spawn point but in a sandbox it seems like there is always somewhere you can go to be safe.. and yes joining a good guild is part of that but its mostly the size of the world that helps because I can always find good spots where I am left alone when I want to be and there are so many things about a game that you can learn and use to avoid PVP if you want to. Sure you have to risk exploring and playing long enough to figure out and its dangerous and fun at first but why not?
You may not be able to just join a guild right away but if you tough it out long enough to join a good guild in one sandbox, you can usually play other sandboxes with the same people and contacts and help?
In the first Darkfall it was impossible to PVP with a good player who was avoiding it.. he could just bunny hop away and then water log, maybe turn and parry your attacks in the air while at it lol. Also you could learn things like you would lag out when it meant someone was coming. My girlfriend would just log off for 5 minutes and always be okay when she came back in when that happened. She would only get killed when she would play with me because Id want to fight.
Even in AoC you could kite at portals and stuff, stun or stealth and run, etc.
Once a guild tried to camp me out of the game at a chaos city in Darkfall (no protection or friends)... there was on average of dozen of them online at all times it seemed like and they would try to bindstone camp my corpse until I quit.... but I didn't give up and it was easy to scare them away and I chased them out of the city and this was how.. I would log in, pick my direction, and autorun then log out. Thank god for the invulnerability shield hehe.. I would log right back in, pick a direction, and log out again. Log right back in, jump in the water, log out (water log), be back at the bindstone, run the other direction, log out.... give it 5-10 minutes, log in... sneak to a nearby spawn to get some arrows and a bow (since Id be naked unable to get to a bank) then I'd spy on them and wait for one of them to be away from the others or to have low health... then Id pop him and loot him and bank it then water log before they could catch me... hahaha it felt so good... and this was a rinse and repeat process... 1 person against like 30? They had to move away because they kept losing gear. Again the city was mine (and my girlfriend and brother) and I had the funnest 3 days chasing them out!! After that nobody dared live in this chaod city unless they obeyed our rules and didnt kill our citizens.
My point is that you can tough it out and learn the tricks of the game, non of them are perfect. Does it lag when someone comes near? Can you post someone to watch? Do you have friends in the area?
Vanguard could have been considered a sandbox because open world no instances... and you might lag when someone was coming, like in most games, but yeah there was nowhere to hide really because I would find you... lol thanks to /who all in every zone. I would never grief someone out of the game though, just take their infamy then leave them alone (unless they were talking garbage). I guess that is the meanest game that I can think of because you couldn't get away from people sometimes. With a bard in your group you would be fine though. rallos zek was pretty hardcore griefers lol if you are talking about that than I understand but sandboxes today are different..
Oh yeah that's another thing... don't react to them and act like you are having fun if you are absolutely stuck with it.. its so much harder to kill someone who doesn't run...
When it comes down to it I like having to deal with abusive people.. but from being used to it I know so many tricks in games to totally avoid PVP and I sware its way easier than you may think.
Sorry I type fast and wanted to share my stories of the most times that I was griefed.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Have been looking for a game like old UO since EA destroyed the game with Age of Shadows february 2003 and this one seems promising.
Every game isn't for everyone and rest assure developers wont risk financially by catering to the more hardcore PvP players cause we are way more then most understand.
It happened in Face of Mankind, though. You will understand why if you watch the first 30 seconds of the following video and look at the player's objectives on the right side of the screen (0:13 - 0:29).
It really depends how developers set it up. In Face of Mankind there was a Law Enforcement Department faction whose goals were all about enforcing the laws, patrolling the streets, scanning citizens for drugs and illegal weapons, arresting and shipping criminals to a prison planet and guarding the prison planet, conducting internal investigations on corruption within the police force, doing detective work on tricky cases, protecting politicians, collaborating with global intelligence agents and the army, and so on.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
I have played many PvP games, some with harsh penalties and I have never seen any system prevent greifing on a large scale. Having said that, I believe this system has the most potential to do so, and I sincerely hope it works well. Don't misunderstand me I am in no way hating on this game, just trying to take the tint out of the rose colored glasses of the people that think this is the end of greifing. It won't be, just be prepared.
It does look interesting and I will be giving it a go as I have time to do so.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Also, that's 2 hours you have to contact friends over discord and let them know you need help, or walk to the nearest city and ask for their help.
Unless you pitched up deep in the wilderness alone (bad idea), there will be options.
But they're more apt to refer to themselves simpler as "pvpers".
Standing armies in this game -- the pvpers -- are going to be waiting for the call to fight while they do other things in game (duel, train, making money, etc). All it takes is for someone to jump channels in Teamspeak and yell "THERE'S LIKE 5 GUYS AT MY COTTAGE CHASING ME I NEED HELP".
Then everyone in the channel will (hopefully) respond and come to his defense.
Why? Because pvp.
First you call me a troll, a sign of a weak argument, then you go about whining that the game forces you to PvP.
Nobody forced you to buy that game, and yet you still claim that game is forcing you to PvP??
Your argument has NO logical reasoning whatsoever.
If your in the centre of towns doing pve stuff your probably safe from gankers. If your going out into the wilderness where the gankers will have to live you will have some pretty fierce mobs there.
So you have four choices:
1) go into the wilds and kill the fierce mobs and PvPers because you have trained well.
2)take some pc guards because you are an pc who hasn't specialised in combat
3)die to the monsters well before you see a ganker
4) stay near town where it's safe