Is this slanted more toward the PVP crowd or the PVE crowd?

Belgaraath

I am just learning about this game, so excuse my ignorance. I did some quick brushing up on their website and the forums...but a lot of what I am reading is design fluff. I haven't really been on this site nearly as much as I used to as I focus on Virtual Reality and the Witcher 3. Anyway, one of the reasons I decided to ignore Black Desert is that in the end, it's a game with poor PVE elements (story and questing wise) and is more slanted toward crafters and PVP (I think). What is the difference between Black Desert and COE in ensuring that the PVE crowd will be happy other than randomly killing monsters or crafting? A lot of PVE folks don't get excited about crafting and they don't get excited about being forced to PVP. Story is important to most PVE folks and before I back a kick starter, I need more details as to how this game will or will not accommodate that very large PVE MMO population.

EDIT: In all fairness to Black Desert...I'm downloading it now with one of the free keys I just obtained which was coincidental since I mentioned it and never played it :-) lol

beloc

I am wondering the same thing. I really love the concept and will support at a rather high level if the PvE side is robust.

whilan

keithian said:

I am just learning about this game, so excuse my ignorance. I did some quick brushing up on their website and the forums...but a lot of what I am reading is design fluff. I haven't really been on this site nearly as much as I used to as I focus on Virtual Reality and the Witcher 3. Anyway, one of the reasons I decided to ignore Black Desert is that in the end, it's a game with poor PVE elements (story and questing wise) and is more slanted toward crafters and PVP (I think). What is the difference between Black Desert and COE in ensuring that the PVE crowd will be happy other than randomly killing monsters or crafting? A lot of PVE folks don't get excited about crafting and they don't get excited about being forced to PVP. Story is important to most PVE folks and before I back a kick starter, I need more details as to how this game will or will not accommodate that very large PVE MMO population.

It is a sandbox game with some questing.  Seeing as you tend to lean towards the questing I'll focus on that.

Quests won't be gotten simply by going to an NPC and they tell you a bunch of stuff and give you a task.  Their engine is suppose to give you quests tailored to your gameplay style, your alignment (Blessed/tainted) and things you've done in the past.  Basically it tries to tailor the quests to seem like something your character would do.  You also could get a quest that works into the greater story they are trying to tell (the one that supposed to take 10 RL years to tell)

Edit: they haven't really gone into great detail on the quests themselves, but they have said that sometimes if you want reverse your alignment, you'll have to fail the quest to turn things around. So even failing a quest sounds like a plausible thing.  Granted that comes with the loss of reward that it entails

You can also do contracts for other people for goods/services.

You can either create your own or explore other people's dungeons.

As for PvP remember that most of the time it's logical for the person to only "knock you out" and take a few things" if they upright coup de grace you to try and take everything, they risk larger loss to their spirit and loss to their skills everytime they are captured.

Looting other players also works off the layered clothing system which means you can actually hide things and unless they look in the right place they won't find it.

beloc

Thank you Whilan. I enjoy PvE the most, however, if done properly Open World PvP really does at realism, but dealing with griefers just gets old. So having a system in place to "penalize" those grievers is good. I dont play a game to get ganked by some "kid" because it makes them feel like a god in a game.

Belgaraath

whilan said:

keithian said:

I am just learning about this game, so excuse my ignorance. I did some quick brushing up on their website and the forums...but a lot of what I am reading is design fluff. I haven't really been on this site nearly as much as I used to as I focus on Virtual Reality and the Witcher 3. Anyway, one of the reasons I decided to ignore Black Desert is that in the end, it's a game with poor PVE elements (story and questing wise) and is more slanted toward crafters and PVP (I think). What is the difference between Black Desert and COE in ensuring that the PVE crowd will be happy other than randomly killing monsters or crafting? A lot of PVE folks don't get excited about crafting and they don't get excited about being forced to PVP. Story is important to most PVE folks and before I back a kick starter, I need more details as to how this game will or will not accommodate that very large PVE MMO population.

It is a sandbox game with some questing.  Seeing as you tend to lean towards the questing I'll focus on that.

Quests won't be gotten simply by going to an NPC and they tell you a bunch of stuff and give you a task.  Their engine is suppose to give you quests tailored to your gameplay style, your alignment (Blessed/tainted) and things you've done in the past.  Basically it tries to tailor the quests to seem like something your character would do.  You also could get a quest that works into the greater story they are trying to tell (the one that supposed to take 10 RL years to tell)

Edit: they haven't really gone into great detail on the quests themselves, but they have said that sometimes if you want reverse your alignment, you'll have to fail the quest to turn things around. So even failing a quest sounds like a plausible thing.  Granted that comes with the loss of reward that it entails

You can also do contracts for other people for goods/services.

You can either create your own or explore other people's dungeons.

As for PvP remember that most of the time it's logical for the person to only "knock you out" and take a few things" if they upright coup de grace you to try and take everything, they risk larger loss to their spirit and loss to their skills everytime they are captured.

Looting other players also works off the layered clothing system which means you can actually hide things and unless they look in the right place they won't find it.

Thank you Whilan for that write up. I'll support the game with reservation as I'm skeptical of how they are going to implement that as it sounds like a big ask when GW2 promised so much and implemented so little as far as the complexity of their dynamic events. They weren't dynamic at all. They were looping scripted events that had very little impact on anything. Hopefully this game won't do the same.

Belgaraath

beloc said:

Thank you Whilan. I enjoy PvE the most, however, if done properly Open World PvP really does at realism, but dealing with griefers just gets old. So having a system in place to "penalize" those grievers is good. I dont play a game to get ganked by some "kid" because it makes them feel like a god in a game.

I agree with you. I'm willing to enter a world like thisif it means I can still have fun being forced into a PVP world and PVP is not my expertise.

whilan

keithian said:

whilan said:

keithian said:

I am just learning about this game, so excuse my ignorance. I did some quick brushing up on their website and the forums...but a lot of what I am reading is design fluff. I haven't really been on this site nearly as much as I used to as I focus on Virtual Reality and the Witcher 3. Anyway, one of the reasons I decided to ignore Black Desert is that in the end, it's a game with poor PVE elements (story and questing wise) and is more slanted toward crafters and PVP (I think). What is the difference between Black Desert and COE in ensuring that the PVE crowd will be happy other than randomly killing monsters or crafting? A lot of PVE folks don't get excited about crafting and they don't get excited about being forced to PVP. Story is important to most PVE folks and before I back a kick starter, I need more details as to how this game will or will not accommodate that very large PVE MMO population.

It is a sandbox game with some questing.  Seeing as you tend to lean towards the questing I'll focus on that.

Quests won't be gotten simply by going to an NPC and they tell you a bunch of stuff and give you a task.  Their engine is suppose to give you quests tailored to your gameplay style, your alignment (Blessed/tainted) and things you've done in the past.  Basically it tries to tailor the quests to seem like something your character would do.  You also could get a quest that works into the greater story they are trying to tell (the one that supposed to take 10 RL years to tell)

Edit: they haven't really gone into great detail on the quests themselves, but they have said that sometimes if you want reverse your alignment, you'll have to fail the quest to turn things around. So even failing a quest sounds like a plausible thing.  Granted that comes with the loss of reward that it entails

You can also do contracts for other people for goods/services.

You can either create your own or explore other people's dungeons.

As for PvP remember that most of the time it's logical for the person to only "knock you out" and take a few things" if they upright coup de grace you to try and take everything, they risk larger loss to their spirit and loss to their skills everytime they are captured.

Looting other players also works off the layered clothing system which means you can actually hide things and unless they look in the right place they won't find it.

Thank you Whilan for that write up. I'll support the game with reservation as I'm skeptical of how they are going to implement that as it sounds like a big ask when GW2 promised so much and implemented so little as far as the complexity of their dynamic events. They weren't dynamic at all. They were looping scripted events that had very little impact on anything. Hopefully this game won't do the same.

I would definitely advise you do all the research you can before making a decision. Including the company, how everything is set up, all the features. How they present themselves and any history they may have before doing anything. (assuming you haven't already)

You want to make the best informed decision you can. I'm just glad to help in any way I can to inform you so you can make that decision.

This can go to the both of you. not just keithian.

Belgaraath

whilan said:

keithian said:

whilan said:

keithian said:

I am just learning about this game, so excuse my ignorance. I did some quick brushing up on their website and the forums...but a lot of what I am reading is design fluff. I haven't really been on this site nearly as much as I used to as I focus on Virtual Reality and the Witcher 3. Anyway, one of the reasons I decided to ignore Black Desert is that in the end, it's a game with poor PVE elements (story and questing wise) and is more slanted toward crafters and PVP (I think). What is the difference between Black Desert and COE in ensuring that the PVE crowd will be happy other than randomly killing monsters or crafting? A lot of PVE folks don't get excited about crafting and they don't get excited about being forced to PVP. Story is important to most PVE folks and before I back a kick starter, I need more details as to how this game will or will not accommodate that very large PVE MMO population.

It is a sandbox game with some questing.  Seeing as you tend to lean towards the questing I'll focus on that.

Quests won't be gotten simply by going to an NPC and they tell you a bunch of stuff and give you a task.  Their engine is suppose to give you quests tailored to your gameplay style, your alignment (Blessed/tainted) and things you've done in the past.  Basically it tries to tailor the quests to seem like something your character would do.  You also could get a quest that works into the greater story they are trying to tell (the one that supposed to take 10 RL years to tell)

Edit: they haven't really gone into great detail on the quests themselves, but they have said that sometimes if you want reverse your alignment, you'll have to fail the quest to turn things around. So even failing a quest sounds like a plausible thing.  Granted that comes with the loss of reward that it entails

You can also do contracts for other people for goods/services.

You can either create your own or explore other people's dungeons.

As for PvP remember that most of the time it's logical for the person to only "knock you out" and take a few things" if they upright coup de grace you to try and take everything, they risk larger loss to their spirit and loss to their skills everytime they are captured.

Looting other players also works off the layered clothing system which means you can actually hide things and unless they look in the right place they won't find it.

Thank you Whilan for that write up. I'll support the game with reservation as I'm skeptical of how they are going to implement that as it sounds like a big ask when GW2 promised so much and implemented so little as far as the complexity of their dynamic events. They weren't dynamic at all. They were looping scripted events that had very little impact on anything. Hopefully this game won't do the same.

I would definitely advise you do all the research you can before making a decision. Including the company, how everything is set up, all the features. How they present themselves and any history they may have before doing anything. (assuming you haven't already)

You want to make the best informed decision you can. I'm just glad to help in any way I can to inform you so you can make that decision.

This can go to the both of you. not just keithian.

I would prefer you make the decision for me lol.

Mardukk

keithian said:

whilan said:

keithian said:

whilan said:

keithian said:

I am just learning about this game, so excuse my ignorance. I did some quick brushing up on their website and the forums...but a lot of what I am reading is design fluff. I haven't really been on this site nearly as much as I used to as I focus on Virtual Reality and the Witcher 3. Anyway, one of the reasons I decided to ignore Black Desert is that in the end, it's a game with poor PVE elements (story and questing wise) and is more slanted toward crafters and PVP (I think). What is the difference between Black Desert and COE in ensuring that the PVE crowd will be happy other than randomly killing monsters or crafting? A lot of PVE folks don't get excited about crafting and they don't get excited about being forced to PVP. Story is important to most PVE folks and before I back a kick starter, I need more details as to how this game will or will not accommodate that very large PVE MMO population.

It is a sandbox game with some questing.  Seeing as you tend to lean towards the questing I'll focus on that.

Quests won't be gotten simply by going to an NPC and they tell you a bunch of stuff and give you a task.  Their engine is suppose to give you quests tailored to your gameplay style, your alignment (Blessed/tainted) and things you've done in the past.  Basically it tries to tailor the quests to seem like something your character would do.  You also could get a quest that works into the greater story they are trying to tell (the one that supposed to take 10 RL years to tell)

Edit: they haven't really gone into great detail on the quests themselves, but they have said that sometimes if you want reverse your alignment, you'll have to fail the quest to turn things around. So even failing a quest sounds like a plausible thing.  Granted that comes with the loss of reward that it entails

You can also do contracts for other people for goods/services.

You can either create your own or explore other people's dungeons.

As for PvP remember that most of the time it's logical for the person to only "knock you out" and take a few things" if they upright coup de grace you to try and take everything, they risk larger loss to their spirit and loss to their skills everytime they are captured.

Looting other players also works off the layered clothing system which means you can actually hide things and unless they look in the right place they won't find it.

Thank you Whilan for that write up. I'll support the game with reservation as I'm skeptical of how they are going to implement that as it sounds like a big ask when GW2 promised so much and implemented so little as far as the complexity of their dynamic events. They weren't dynamic at all. They were looping scripted events that had very little impact on anything. Hopefully this game won't do the same.

I would definitely advise you do all the research you can before making a decision. Including the company, how everything is set up, all the features. How they present themselves and any history they may have before doing anything. (assuming you haven't already)

You want to make the best informed decision you can. I'm just glad to help in any way I can to inform you so you can make that decision.

This can go to the both of you. not just keithian.

I would prefer you make the decision for me lol.

Lol, it can't cost that much.  You act like your life is on the line.  I don't really care for PvP but still play PvP games if they offer PvE and open world freedom (boo force fed stories and required quests).  Besides most PvP games don't have the balls to actually have risk vs reward anyway.

Thank to the posters above they have provided some great info.

Morwynn

As far as I can tell, at it's current state it is Open World PvP with a caveat. In the DJ on Death, there are 3 forms. Unconcious - Minimum Lootable / Coup de Grace - Lootable / Perma-Death - Highly Lootable. However for each crime (if caught) which includes killing of others is punishable. If you are killed by another player, you may loose some spirit but they will loose, by commiting a crime, a lot more (if caught).

Now this only applies to the main player area. The Battlefields (kingdom vs kingdom) are a tottally different beast however and the final mechanics have not been fully disclosed yet.

And for those you worry about ganking, being knocked out or unconcious does not cause spirit loss, your screen goes black for a short time and you can get up and do you thing. And if you are worried about corpse camping, you will not 'spawn' back at your corpse, but you will be very close in the area, and there will be timer on spirit loss so if someone does happen kill you again within the timer (I think it is set at 2hrs at present, but don't quote me on that one) you won't suffer any futher spirit loss.

Wizardry

You should not stereotype crafting as not liked,i like crafting a lot...IF done well.

If  crafting is done well and carries  a high importance,i bet MANY will like it.

FOCUS?? 
I have no idea to be honest,i sort of feel like it is pvp focused but again it seems like you can sort of be whatever you want which is the whole purpose of a mmorpg.

IMO if there is too much focus on pvp it will fail badly.Open pvp will always find ways to annoy players that at the moment want no part of pvp,that is a trainwreck waiting to happen.Games need to be designed to bring players together in a good way and not to fight each other.Designs need to bring a few epic happenings to again bring players together.If your game is trying to segregate players ,it fails.

Belgaraath

Wizardry said:

You should not stereotype crafting as not liked,i like crafting a lot...IF done well.

If  crafting is done well and carries  a high importance,i bet MANY will like it.

FOCUS?? 
I have no idea to be honest,i sort of feel like it is pvp focused but again it seems like you can sort of be whatever you want which is the whole purpose of a mmorpg.

IMO if there is too much focus on pvp it will fail badly.Open pvp will always find ways to annoy players that at the moment want no part of pvp,that is a trainwreck waiting to happen.Games need to be designed to bring players together in a good way and not to fight each other.Designs need to bring a few epic happenings to again bring players together.If your game is trying to segregate players ,it fails.

I agree with most of what you wrote. However, I didn't stereotype anything. I never said ALL or MOST PVE folks don't like crafting...so not sure where you got that from. I'm well aware that there are tons of folks that love crafting. I said there are a lot of folks who really aren't into it. I wasn't trying to put a percentage on what folks are and aren't. We already know that most games like this like to make crafters happy. What we don't know with a game like this is how well it will make the PVE non crafters happy or even crafters who don't like to PVP and want other quest or event related things to do.

beloc

Morwynn said:

As far as I can tell, at it's current state it is Open World PvP with a caveat. In the DJ on Death, there are 3 forms. Unconcious - Minimum Lootable / Coup de Grace - Lootable / Perma-Death - Highly Lootable. However for each crime (if caught) which includes killing of others is punishable. If you are killed by another player, you may loose some spirit but they will loose, by commiting a crime, a lot more (if caught).

Now this only applies to the main player area. The Battlefields (kingdom vs kingdom) are a tottally different beast however and the final mechanics have not been fully disclosed yet.

And for those you worry about ganking, being knocked out or unconcious does not cause spirit loss, your screen goes black for a short time and you can get up and do you thing. And if you are worried about corpse camping, you will not 'spawn' back at your corpse, but you will be very close in the area, and there will be timer on spirit loss so if someone does happen kill you again within the timer (I think it is set at 2hrs at present, but don't quote me on that one) you won't suffer any futher spirit loss.

Kingdom vs. Kingdom I would expect to be full loot, ganking, etc. But the difference is something like that is normally an "option" ala DAoC (realm vs realm vs realm) or ESO (Cyrodil). You can fully enjoy the game without ever stepping foot into a forced PvP scenerio. Even in DAoC the shared dungeon was safe unless you were in it when it switched realm control.

I dont mind PvP. And as I mentioned I dont mind open-world PvP. When done "properly". Some of the PvPers out here would go "go home you wimp, PvP is where the big boys live". To them I would gladly point to the games that focus on PvP. Many exist.

I hope CoE open-world is more like the "real" world version of PvP. What I mean by this is if I take a stroll down Central Brooklyn, the likely hood of someone walking up to me just to stab me in the back cause I happen to be walking down the street is unlikely. Their are "laws" to protect against this, aka penalties. This would hopefully pursuade the "gankers" to not gank and would make PvP actually have a purpose versus just being a big "prick" fest. Which, based on what I have read and what has been written here, may be the case.

For those who live in Brooklyn I may be totally wrong on my example, but you guys get my point..

Octagon7711

I want to wait an see how the game is actually put together before I invest in it.  Combat usually makes or breaks a game for me and I never really know about combat until it's actually being tested and I can see how the games vision matches it's reality.  

Hariken

It seems like all the kick starter mmo's are PVP focused to me.

flizzer

Make no mistake.  This is a PVP game which means a ganker's paradise.  They have some convoluted system that supposedly will keep the ganker's in check but I seriously doubt it.

If you are a PvE  player this one is a pass.

Vucar

I've been reading a lot of posts here, on imgur, on reddit, on other forums, and seemingly everywhere CoE has touched, all with the same theme of "I'd like to wait and see how it goes, i might support it in the future if i like what i see".

I've been waiting a long time. A lot of us have been waiting a long time. A lot of us have been burned thinking they were done "waiting" when a past mmo failed to deliver. 

Maybe CoE will release and it won't be anything that any of us hoped it would be - and I would be out $350 personally. I'm okay with that, because I know at least then I can say "They tried, and I helped them try"

And then i will move on and go back to waiting. 

But maybe CoE's kickstarter doesn't finish because too many people are waiting for others to see it through. With hindsight 20/20, what would you feel worse about -- that you spent $5 to support an indie developer try something new and it didn't work? Or that you will never know what CoE and Soulbound studios was capable of making?

Let every mmo gamer assembled know the truth of this. Let each among them search his own soul. And while you're at it... search your own.

beloc

I agree Vucar. I still plan on supporting the game because it does look very promising. And, like yourself, I am going to support it at the $350 level. At the end of the day, the developers support there families by making these games. If I find a game that I think "personally" I may enjoy, I will support it. And if it turns out to not be the game I thought, its not the developers fault.

Its the same for what I do. I make a living by whats in my head. Its the same for the developers. I would feel pretty shitty if I told someone I had scrambled eggs for sale and then when I deliver them come to find out they wanted fried eggs and they dont pay me. I said up front I had scrambled eggs, not fried. Its not my fault your didn't read what I was offering.

garretth

I suggest you all at least get the early bird $25 package.   Join the family, share your concerns, help make the game better.

I am a PVE player...tried and true.  There are many negatives to indiscriminate killing.  You'll shorten your life and stain your soul.  

Belgaraath

Though I appreciate the responses, a couple of folks here are going off topic. My question isn't asking whether one should invest in the game or not. My question was around the game play and ensuring the PVE players are happy...which I'm assuming most aren't in a game like Black Desert...except for potentially crafters.

garretth

Please take a moment to read Design Journal #4 – Incapacitation, Spirit Walking, and Permadeath by Caspian.
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/348-Design-Journal-4--Incapacitation-Spirit-Walking-and-Permadeath

A small excerpt:
[In most mmo's] People are encouraged to use capital punishment for everything. This type of behavior inherently leads to a sense of lawlessness and encourages griefing and other anti-social behaviors. PvP becomes less about achieving objectives and more of an automatic reaction to seeing other characters in the wild. In a world where every quest involves killing someone and all characters neatly respawn without consequence, what other conclusion can players draw than killing (even repeatedly) is acceptable? As usual, Chronicles of Elyria is different. In this week’s design journal we’re going to talk about how CoE discourages actual killing, the different meanings of the word “death,” and the different loot rules associated with unconscious or dead characters.

k61977

This is advertised as a PVP game.  Sure it has some systems in place to try and deter griefers and gankers but is still a PVP game.  So to make this a short answer it is a PVP game.

It will have aspects of PVE, but again it is a PVP game.

LacedOpium

k61977 said:

This is advertised as a PVP game.  Sure it has some systems in place to try and deter griefers and gankers but is still a PVP game.  So to make this a short answer it is a PVP game.

It will have aspects of PVE, but again it is a PVP game.

For starters, it would be advantageous to the game if the different game play style demographics stopped trying to claim every game as their own.  

While there are games that can be clearly described as PvP games, Ie., FPS/MOBA/DOTA and even MMORPGs like EVE, MO and Darkfall, most MMORPGs are a mixture of both PvE and PvP, which are best defined as PvX games.

Coe is a PvX game.  It has both PvE and PvP game features.  As a matter of fact, by the mere fact that PvP is greatly discouraged, and severely penalized whenever engaged in, that alone would better define CoE as a PvE game with PvP being added simply to add more realism to its world.

What it definitely is not is a PvP game in which dying is rendered irrelevent and insignificant, and in which death counts are an integral part of the game with everyone killing each other willy nilly and respawning only to kill each other again ad nauseum.  That would be a more accurate definition of a "PvP game," but that is not what CoE is about, nor is it integral to its game play.

CoE is a PvE game with PvP being a feature possibility, but only if you chose to engage in it. It is, however, discouraged, not encouraged, and even when you engage in it it comes with a heavy price.  That doesnt sound like a "PvP game." 

It just gets a bit tiresome hearing the PvP-centric crowds that are always quick to claim every game that allows for PvP to be a PvP game when nothing could be further from the truth in most MMORPG games.

MMORPGS are by their very nature predominantly PvE games. PvP is generally just another feature that the game offers to the player base to give it variety in game play.

beloc

LacedOpium said:

k61977 said:

This is advertised as a PVP game.  Sure it has some systems in place to try and deter griefers and gankers but is still a PVP game.  So to make this a short answer it is a PVP game.

It will have aspects of PVE, but again it is a PVP game.

For starters, it would be advantageous to the game if the different game play style demographics stopped trying to claim every game as their own.  

While there are games that can be clearly described as PvP games, Ie., FPS/MOBA/DOTA and even MMORPGs like EVE, MO and Darkfall, most MMORPGs are a mixture of both PvE and PvP, which are best defined as PvX games.

Coe is a PvX game.  It has both PvE and PvP game features.  As a matter of fact, by the mere fact that PvP is greatly discouraged, and severely penalized whenever engaged in, that alone would better define CoE as a PvE game with PvP being added simply to add more realism to its world.

What it definitely is not is a PvP game in which dying is rendered irrelevent and insignificant, and in which death counts are an integral part of the game with everyone killing each other willy nilly and respawning only to kill each other again ad nauseum.  That would be a more accurate definition of a "PvP game," but that is not what CoE is about, nor is it integral to its game play.

CoE is a PvE game with PvP being a feature possibility, but only if you chose to utilize it, but it is descouraged, not encouraged, and even when you engage in it it comes with a heavy price.  That doesnt sound like a "PvP game." 

It just gets a bit tiresome hearing the PvP-centric crowds that are always quick to claim every game that allows for PvP to be a PvP game when nothing could be further from the truth in most MMORPG games.

MMORPGS are by their very nature predominantly PvE games. PvP is generally just another feature that the game offers to the player base to give it variety in game play.

 
Well put..

Belgaraath

LacedOpium said:

k61977 said:

This is advertised as a PVP game.  Sure it has some systems in place to try and deter griefers and gankers but is still a PVP game.  So to make this a short answer it is a PVP game.

It will have aspects of PVE, but again it is a PVP game.

For starters, it would be advantageous to the game if the different game play style demographics stopped trying to claim every game as their own.  

While there are games that can be clearly described as PvP games, Ie., FPS/MOBA/DOTA and even MMORPGs like EVE, MO and Darkfall, most MMORPGs are a mixture of both PvE and PvP, which are best defined as PvX games.

Coe is a PvX game.  It has both PvE and PvP game features.  As a matter of fact, by the mere fact that PvP is greatly discouraged, and severely penalized whenever engaged in, that alone would better define CoE as a PvE game with PvP being added simply to add more realism to its world.

What it definitely is not is a PvP game in which dying is rendered irrelevent and insignificant, and in which death counts are an integral part of the game with everyone killing each other willy nilly and respawning only to kill each other again ad nauseum.  That would be a more accurate definition of a "PvP game," but that is not what CoE is about, nor is it integral to its game play.

CoE is a PvE game with PvP being a feature possibility, but only if you chose to utilize it, but it is descouraged, not encouraged, and even when you engage in it it comes with a heavy price.  That doesnt sound like a "PvP game." 

It just gets a bit tiresome hearing the PvP-centric crowds that are always quick to claim every game that allows for PvP to be a PvP game when nothing could be further from the truth in most MMORPG games.

MMORPGS are by their very nature predominantly PvE games. PvP is generally just another feature that the game offers to the player base to give it variety in game play.

If everything you wrote is true, than as a predominately PVE player (I did enjoy PVP in Warhammer for some reason..my first PVP lol), I am looking forward to seeing what happens.

Slapshot1188

Open World Full Loot PvP is like being pregnant.   You either are, or your aren't.  You can't be just a little pregnant..