One thing is 3 days to a week headstart, another is 3 whole months!
It could take 10 years to reach endgame, you are still going to be 3 months ahead of everyone else. That's a lot of time and that is why tree of savior ditched it out as fast as they did.
It's fucking insane people are defending it.
Defending =/= not caring.....
I personally wait that long before jumping into new games anyway, I'm always 3 or so months behind people. This would be nothing out of the ordinary for me. Nor anyone else who typically joins months after launch. Nor anyone who has ever joined a game years after launch.
There's really nothing to defend here, as it's already underway, they've already sold it this way... You either accept it or don't, there are other games under the sea...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Who said it was a theme park? This is worse in a sandboxy game.
In a sandbox environment having so much time to experiment and play before anyone else is a HUGE advantage because the long term is far away.
Bloodaxees this conversation is going round in circles. The people who've early adopted the game and researched the developer journals and Q&A's understand that we're arguing apples and oranges here. You keep speaking of advantages as if this were a 3-month headstart in WoW or EQ, even though others have told you that you have it wrong, that this is a building stage in a large-scale RP. You have one image of the game in development based on other games you've played, the enthusiasts for the Chronicles have another based on the devs' design concepts. If you can't meet them halfway and at least try to inform yourself as to what they're talking about, then what is the point of any of this?
The only thing left is to say that I see where you're coming from, your point is made - noted.
One thing is 3 days to a week headstart, another is 3 whole months!
It could take 10 years to reach endgame, you are still going to be 3 months ahead of everyone else. That's a lot of time and that is why tree of savior ditched it out as fast as they did.
It's fucking insane people are defending it.
Defending =/= not caring.....
I personally wait that long before jumping into new games anyway, I'm always 3 or so months behind people. This would be nothing out of the ordinary for me. Nor anyone else who typically joins months after launch. Nor anyone who has ever joined a game years after launch.
There's really nothing to defend here, as it's already underway, they've already sold it this way... You either accept it or don't, there are other games under the sea...
Not everyone waits before jumping in a new game tough that's the thing.
What an incredibly terrible idea, if they're implementing this type of awful strategy then I can only imagine what type of bullsh!t they'll come up with next. I'm relieved I didn't back this game.
One thing is 3 days to a week headstart, another is 3 whole months!
It could take 10 years to reach endgame, you are still going to be 3 months ahead of everyone else. That's a lot of time and that is why tree of savior ditched it out as fast as they did.
It's fucking insane people are defending it.
Defending =/= not caring.....
I personally wait that long before jumping into new games anyway, I'm always 3 or so months behind people. This would be nothing out of the ordinary for me. Nor anyone else who typically joins months after launch. Nor anyone who has ever joined a game years after launch.
There's really nothing to defend here, as it's already underway, they've already sold it this way... You either accept it or don't, there are other games under the sea...
Not everyone waits before jumping in a new game tough that's the thing.
ANd not every game has to fit into folks comfort zone. Nor adhere to what they view as the rules of fair-play. That's why we have freewill to pass it up if we so decide to do so.
In the end if this game is worth a damn, this won't make much difference to the enjoyment one can find in it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Why wouldn't you be able to be competitive if you're not there at the first day? Is it pointless to start playing a mmorpg which has launched more that a few days ago? Is it pointless to start play an mmorpg if you have a real life and can't spend 20 hours online each day?
You won't be competitive if you don't start the first day and play 20 hours a day. This has been true of almost every MMORPG I've ever played, those with much more free time than me always have a big advantage and I've learned to carve out my fun within this system.
One big reason I play EVE is the skill system is level capped so I can train (on or offline) to the same level as any veteran who may have started years before.
Despite starting 3 years after the games launch no one has better mining skills than I do, and there are many combat ships that I am the equal of anyone in.
That said, one of my corp mates owns 4 person Titans, the value of each about equal to my entire net worth in game, and I'm considered wealthy by most player standards.
More amazing is he pays for 4 subs (with PLEX I'm sure) for each of those accounts because once you sit a pilot in a Titan, it is all he can ever do as he cannot leave the ship as it can't be docked.
This is just now changing with the addition of Citadels, but it will cost my alliance 80B ISK just for the blueprint, nevermind the massive amount of mined ore and PI components we'll have to farm to stand one up.
So it will be interesting to me to see if the designs COE puts in place allows a similar situation to not feel like 2nd class citizens for players who can't spend their entire lives in game.
Yeah onto the eve topic. Except I am sure you haven't anything on many decade players. At best your mad crazy mining skills are like alt 54 for some of us. Some alts which were started pre-goon craziness low sec nightmare fun. (Ie ultra padded).
And maybe just MAYBE mining may be all grand but what else is?
You can't say "I am equal to a 10 year but I'm a 7".
No those of us who started eve at it's start have had so many more chances and choice moments to really get looted up etc. SP is a small part of the eve universe. It certainly doesn't equalize things.
Time matters. That's all that truly matters in a mmo. How much time ahead of the "other fish" you have. How much time you can create a buffer for. People who act humble about their mmo experience are cute but also liars. We all play to compete in some way. All of us do. Those who don't are most likely dead.
3 months in a modern mmo is equal to about half a decade of work in a older mmo.
Facts are the only reason you'd of matched anyone 3 years late to the party is the fact they buffed sp gain.
I believe, but could be wrong, what he was saying is that for instance if you wanted to 1v1 a 13 year character versus your 1 year character - there is only so many SP you can put in gunnery and piloting. It becomes equal or within 95% after usually 6 months if the new pilot specializes. Focus train into a dramiel for instance - can be done within 3 months.
Having Sp in titan, carriers, fighters, logistics, Jump Freighters etc etc that the 300m SP toon does not help him one iota in a 1v1 in a frig. Which is some of the funnest parts of eve in my opinion. I am a day one toon and I still fly frigs like this.
Where is the advantage for the Veteran? Understanding the game mechanics and how to get the advantage. This portion is what I think people are complaining about - knowledge is power.
Why wouldn't you be able to be competitive if you're not there at the first day? Is it pointless to start playing a mmorpg which has launched more that a few days ago? Is it pointless to start play an mmorpg if you have a real life and can't spend 20 hours online each day?
You won't be competitive if you don't start the first day and play 20 hours a day. This has been true of almost every MMORPG I've ever played, those with much more free time than me always have a big advantage and I've learned to carve out my fun within this system.
One big reason I play EVE is the skill system is level capped so I can train (on or offline) to the same level as any veteran who may have started years before.
Despite starting 3 years after the games launch no one has better mining skills than I do, and there are many combat ships that I am the equal of anyone in.
That said, one of my corp mates owns 4 person Titans, the value of each about equal to my entire net worth in game, and I'm considered wealthy by most player standards.
More amazing is he pays for 4 subs (with PLEX I'm sure) for each of those accounts because once you sit a pilot in a Titan, it is all he can ever do as he cannot leave the ship as it can't be docked.
This is just now changing with the addition of Citadels, but it will cost my alliance 80B ISK just for the blueprint, nevermind the massive amount of mined ore and PI components we'll have to farm to stand one up.
So it will be interesting to me to see if the designs COE puts in place allows a similar situation to not feel like 2nd class citizens for players who can't spend their entire lives in game.
Yeah onto the eve topic. Except I am sure you haven't anything on many decade players. At best your mad crazy mining skills are like alt 54 for some of us. Some alts which were started pre-goon craziness low sec nightmare fun. (Ie ultra padded).
And maybe just MAYBE mining may be all grand but what else is?
You can't say "I am equal to a 10 year but I'm a 7".
No those of us who started eve at it's start have had so many more chances and choice moments to really get looted up etc. SP is a small part of the eve universe. It certainly doesn't equalize things.
Time matters. That's all that truly matters in a mmo. How much time ahead of the "other fish" you have. How much time you can create a buffer for. People who act humble about their mmo experience are cute but also liars. We all play to compete in some way. All of us do. Those who don't are most likely dead.
3 months in a modern mmo is equal to about half a decade of work in a older mmo.
Facts are the only reason you'd of matched anyone 3 years late to the party is the fact they buffed sp gain.
I believe, but could be wrong, what he was saying is that for instance if you wanted to 1v1 a 13 year character versus your 1 year character - there is only so many SP you can put in gunnery and piloting. It becomes equal or within 95% after usually 6 months if the new pilot specializes. Focus train into a dramiel for instance - can be done within 3 months.
Having Sp in titan, carriers, fighters, logistics, Jump Freighters etc etc that the 300m SP toon does not help him one iota in a 1v1 in a frig. Which is some of the funnest parts of eve in my opinion. I am a day one toon and I still fly frigs like this.
Where is the advantage for the Veteran? Understanding the game mechanics and how to get the advantage. This portion is what I think people are complaining about - knowledge is power.
If thats the case they would be arguing over alpha and beta access also but there not... If its only the knowledge of how the game works then those people have to much of an advantage. or what about the people that study the design journals and go into irc with the devs? is that too much of an advantage?
Three month head start is a joke, imo. It pretty much says if you want to be competitive, you need to pay us upfront.
I really liked when there used to be level playing field for all players who paid the box price and a monthly subs.
I totally and wholeheartedly agree with this statement. The direction this game is heading is very bad.
You do not seem to understand what the game is about, the game is not fair and all the 3 month pre-launch does is let us make a world prior to launch .
Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3
Still doesnt address the game breaking issue of all the ore and non renewable resources that will be collected and used or hoarded, having it basically a PvP free world makes that even easier to accomplish.
That is of course if their definition of finite isnt the same as everyone leses.
We'll just have to wait and see. But in a true open world PvP game, hoarding of resources is a perfectly valid tactic and it's up to to others to find a way to overcome it. There's no way a measly three month headstart by a few thousand people, a lot of whom won't be interested in that sort of activity anyway, is going to make that much difference to the resources in the game though...the 'world' is huge.
Hoarding when others have to wait three months to even get those resources isn't healthy in any way. Sounds like a crummy developer to me.
The white knights have already arrived and my guess is those in the three month head start are the majority of them. People will always defend design decisions that benefit them more than others.
If there is no server reset the game is launched. This means that there will be a limited population that reaps all the benefits from gaining access early. If you wish to be competitive you should pay early and pay extra to have a huge advantage against everyone else.
We heard the same kind of bullshit from goblinworks with Pathfinder Online when they launched an alpha quality game calling it early enrollment and that bullshit hasn't become better a year later. The difference was that there were fewer people buying it last time.
The only thing that can change this is if the game lacks competitive gameplay.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Why do they need such a big head start for world building? What would be the downfall of letting everyone start at the same time with the same voluntary only PVP? A bigger more developed world would result right?
@Vucar ; Is there any point in calling us cancer and losers other than to insult us?
Because typically when certain fans see you criticize their current favorite unreleased game they take it as a personal insult and respond in kind. It happens all the time
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
@Vucar ; Is there any point in calling us cancer and losers other than to insult us?
Cancer no. he didn't actually call you that, he called the thread that. You are not the thread. Loser, no. Unwilling to debate on things, yes. That's the problem. One side is trying to debate something, and the other side is completely unwilling to move at all.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
@Vucar ; Is there any point in calling us cancer and losers other than to insult us?
Cancer no. he didn't actually call you that, he called the thread that. You are not the thread. Loser, no. Unwilling to debate on things, yes. That's the problem. One side is trying to debate something, and the other side is completely unwilling to move at all.
Yeah that's always the fine difference right? He didn't call us cancer but the thread. He didn't suggest we are losers that didn't achieve anything in life but just.. someone..
And because we feel this whole concept isn't very well thought through we are "unwilling to debate things" We are one sided and unwilling to move at all.
Good thing you are reasonable and willing to move from your perspective unlike us.
Why do they need such a big head start for world building? What would be the downfall of letting everyone start at the same time with the same voluntary only PVP? A bigger more developed world would result right?
Thinking back to SWG, 3 months would have been a pretty good amount of time to build up some infrastructure; cities/shuttles, established crafters with decent goods, variety in gear available, etc..etc..etc..
Compared to what SWG was at release that actually would have been great IMO. It was a good while before even basic gear was readily available, not to mention buffs, tools, parts, so on and so forth.
I can't really see how this would have been a bad thing in that game. Assuming COE is as community/RP driven of course.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
@Vucar ; Is there any point in calling us cancer and losers other than to insult us?
Cancer no. he didn't actually call you that, he called the thread that. You are not the thread. Loser, no. Unwilling to debate on things, yes. That's the problem. One side is trying to debate something, and the other side is completely unwilling to move at all.
Yeah that's always the fine difference right? He didn't call us cancer but the thread. He didn't suggest we are losers that didn't achieve anything in life but just.. someone..
And because we feel this whole concept isn't very well thought through we are "unwilling to debate things" We are one sided and unwilling to move at all.
Good thing you are reasonable and willing to move from your perspective unlike us.
Yes, that is excactly the difference! Why do you HAVE to assume he personally attacked you? Flat out making stuff up? He did not even write the word loser down.
they take it as a personal insult
Yeah, thats what Dakeru did. Take it as a personal insult.
Guys, the whole concept and prospect of CoE is grand, bold (maybe too bold!), different in many regards. That makes it controversial, which leads to heated debates. And although we live in a grim, unfair and fucked up word. Can we at least debate here, assuming no one wants to actually personally attack the "other side"?
I mean, come on. We are all here, because we think the idea of CoE is at the very least interesting to us , yes?
@Vucar ; Is there any point in calling us cancer and losers other than to insult us?
Cancer no. he didn't actually call you that, he called the thread that. You are not the thread. Loser, no. Unwilling to debate on things, yes. That's the problem. One side is trying to debate something, and the other side is completely unwilling to move at all.
Yeah that's always the fine difference right? He didn't call us cancer but the thread. He didn't suggest we are losers that didn't achieve anything in life but just.. someone..
And because we feel this whole concept isn't very well thought through we are "unwilling to debate things" We are one sided and unwilling to move at all.
Good thing you are reasonable and willing to move from your perspective unlike us.
Yes, that is excactly the difference! Why do you HAVE to assume he personally attacked you? Flat out making stuff up? He did not even write the word loser down.
they take it as a personal insult
Yeah, thats what Dakeru did. Take it as a personal insult.
Guys, the whole concept and prospect of CoE is grand, bold (maybe too bold!), different in many regards. That makes it controversial, which leads to heated debates. And although we live in a grim, unfair and fucked up word. Can we at least debate here, assuming no one wants to actually personally attack the "other side"?
I mean, come on. We are all here, because we think the idea of CoE is at the very least interesting to us , yes?
Yeah personal insult.. silly me what ever made me think he means us?
I mean cancer.. it's funny right? It's not something that kills thousands of people every year.
Every respectable person calls things "cancer" it's completely natural.
Actually calling this thread cancer he was meaning it was horrible, a pestilence on decent conversation and things like that.
It is warping people, their concepts and their behaviours. Therefore it's a bad thing, cancer is a bad thing so this thread is a cancer on the community
What the guys defending this dont realize that this is just the start of things that will eventually ruin this game. Critics are far more correct with questionable decisions than the fanboys are, the list of game that has been proven over and over again is easy to see because its basically all of them.
There are a dozen way to handle this, they chose to take a stand and implement one of the worst.
There are multiple reasons why this is a bad idea, and not a single one that makes sense. Anything the pro camp claims can easily be done with the head start and then a selective wipe right before launch.
People still get their 3 months of learning the game, which itself is a very big advantage in a game like this, at least if its as complex as everyone want to make it out to be. If you build something they could keep it in the world, it just wouldnt be owned. They could even give people preference on claiming the spots they had before the wipe (that would itself be questionable in other games).
Maybe theyre worried about the aging system and that once they start a character they cant stop it. But if you wipe them all does it matter? You just start all over again from 0. Unless they dont know how to integrate the titles and the perks and whatever other stuff they give people for backing the game. I mean we have all seen basically every game ever launched that gave free stuff to people screw up the delivery of that stuff.
In any event this is going ot make this game a lot more difficult to entice people into it. Not because of the headstart itself but because of the decision they made and the reasons they made and the compromise they gave to appease people. But I am sure as this games moves forward there will be more and more bad decisions made that will make even more and more people leery of it.
Which like I said is sad because this is yet ANOTHER game with some pretty awesome concepts and ideas but completely ruined by horrible decision making by the people involved. If my suspicions are correct and this kickstarter was just an audition for them to persuade investor(s) to give them money then it will more than likely have more bad decisions made beyond their own going forward.
What the guys defending this dont realize that this is just the start of things that will eventually ruin this game. Critics are far more correct with questionable decisions than the fanboys are, the list of game that has been proven over and over again is easy to see because its basically all of them.
There are a dozen way to handle this, they chose to take a stand and implement one of the worst.
There are multiple reasons why this is a bad idea, and not a single one that makes sense. Anything the pro camp claims can easily be done with the head start and then a selective wipe right before launch.
First off there's no reason to start with fanboi crap... Secondly.... "Anything the pro camp claims can easily be done with the head start and then a selective wipe right before launch." Might wanna read every post before making such claims.
What i just said three posts back...
"Thinking back to SWG, 3 months would have been a pretty good amount of time to build up some infrastructure; cities/shuttles, established crafters with decent goods, variety in gear available, etc..etc..etc..
Compared to what SWG was at release that actually would have been great IMO. It was a good while before even basic gear was readily available, not to mention buffs, tools, parts, so on and so forth.
I can't really see how this would have been a bad thing in that game. Assuming COE is as community/RP driven of course."
How could that be achievable with a wipe and typical 3-day headstart?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Does anyone realize the moot point of whether or not the supposed advantage of the headstart will matter...
The game is about STORY it is meant to be inequal, since that drives story, and besides you won't need the best stats or equipment if you specialize in 1 thing you will be good at it fast...Just read up on the game a bit first before you start criticizing it for a thing you don't understand or get at all because you lack the information to do so... Check out the Design Journals at least on the page, here is the link, I saved the time to search for it: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog
So there is a lot of misinformation in this thread about the exposition getting tossed around in here. Let me do what I can to make it understandable.
So I've been covering this game for the past 6-7 months, I (and skeptics like me) have posed all of these questions and more to Jeromy Walsh himself and his readiness to respond has always astounded me, so rest assured that everything has been thought of. Every potential problem has a contingency. The exposition and the pre-game IP (Influence Points) rewards are the answer to my biggest question I've had with the game.
"What happens at the start of the game? Are we going to have thousands, potentially millions, of 12-year-olds thrust into a world akin to Lord of the Flies?"
Much like the closed Alphas and Betas, players that are playing in this world aren't just playing the game. They are helping the developers make the game as good as it can possibly be. The closed tests are about fine-tuning mechanics and stress testing, while the exposition is something completely different. These players' jobs are not gain an advantage in the world, is meant to fill the world out and make it vibrant and alive. Some will might make themselves kings, others might start mapping the world, you might just want to be a humble shoe salesman. The IP is another part of answering that question. Its why the game is going to kickstarter, and it's why the game would never work without one.
"They have more items than the rest of the players, that means they have an advantage."
In a traditional game, you're entirely correct. However, take everything you understand about traditional MMOs, and ignore that for a moment. There is no "gear race." No best in slot armor, no end-game bosses, no win conditions. You would be better off thinking of this game as a Survival game first, with thousands of people in the same server as me. In our private forumns, we already (think we) know who one of the kings that bought into the $10,000 tier is. That player has a huge target on their back. Up-and-coming assassins' guilds, wannabe leaders, jealous ex-girlfriends all want to make sure that the king either loses their power, or greases their palms. The pieces of land, mules, clothing, etc. that are being handed out in the lower tiers will have the same effect on those players owning those items, just on a smaller scale. Somebody out there wants the things that you have, and you're going to have to go the extra mile to protect your posessions. The point is that they aren't any better off than you are. Its the same reason why players that come into the world seven years after the game is released won't be at any kind of disadvantage. Simply because there is no real advantage. There are only players that are doing what they want to do, for now.
"Players with early access will know more about the world, which in itself is an advantage."
In whatever it is that they have focused their time and resources on, yes. That is an advantage. How would a new player learn how to play the game? This is a tricky one to answer, since we don't know if there will be a tutorial before a player jumps into the game. Teaching other players is a responsibility that will fall onto the players. There is a handful of things that go into making sure players aren't totally selfish. The first is the family system. Players will have the choice to start in a family, anybody in that family will pass down their skills (read: genetics) into their offspring. Even when the older members of the family teach the younger player, they will still knowledge in whatever it is they are teaching them. Much like I am learning even more about the game right now when I try to come up with ways to explain it. There are plenty of other family based mechanics that promote them working together, which provides an incentive for players to make sure everybody in their family is strong. Then we have cities and towns. Each player will likely start in a city, the same place where the family lives. Here we get more into politics so I won't dwell on too much. But essentially, if the people in the kingdom aren't happy, then the leadership will know about it. Hopefully through democratic methods, before their heads are on a stake. Whether its 90 days or 4 years, these mechanics are going to be how a player learns how to play the game in the earlier portions.
Hopefully that clears it up. All of the mechanics in the game work in tandem with each other to fix any issues they would have on their own. So I can totally understand how missing a couple pieces of the puzzle is what is confusing a lot of people. But I reiterate, any question you come up with, Soulbound has heard them and have an answer to it.
Comments
I personally wait that long before jumping into new games anyway, I'm always 3 or so months behind people. This would be nothing out of the ordinary for me. Nor anyone else who typically joins months after launch. Nor anyone who has ever joined a game years after launch.
There's really nothing to defend here, as it's already underway, they've already sold it this way... You either accept it or don't, there are other games under the sea...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The only thing left is to say that I see where you're coming from, your point is made - noted.
J
In the end if this game is worth a damn, this won't make much difference to the enjoyment one can find in it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Having Sp in titan, carriers, fighters, logistics, Jump Freighters etc etc that the 300m SP toon does not help him one iota in a 1v1 in a frig. Which is some of the funnest parts of eve in my opinion. I am a day one toon and I still fly frigs like this.
Where is the advantage for the Veteran? Understanding the game mechanics and how to get the advantage. This portion is what I think people are complaining about - knowledge is power.
Join the revolutionary MMO!
The white knights have already arrived and my guess is those in the three month head start are the majority of them. People will always defend design decisions that benefit them more than others.
We heard the same kind of bullshit from goblinworks with Pathfinder Online when they launched an alpha quality game calling it early enrollment and that bullshit hasn't become better a year later. The difference was that there were fewer people buying it last time.
The only thing that can change this is if the game lacks competitive gameplay.
Is there any point in calling us cancer and losers other than to insult us?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
He didn't call us cancer but the thread. He didn't suggest we are losers that didn't achieve anything in life but just.. someone..
And because we feel this whole concept isn't very well thought through we are "unwilling to debate things"
We are one sided and unwilling to move at all.
Good thing you are reasonable and willing to move from your perspective unlike us.
Compared to what SWG was at release that actually would have been great IMO. It was a good while before even basic gear was readily available, not to mention buffs, tools, parts, so on and so forth.
I can't really see how this would have been a bad thing in that game. Assuming COE is as community/RP driven of course.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah, thats what Dakeru did. Take it as a personal insult.
Guys, the whole concept and prospect of CoE is grand, bold (maybe too bold!), different in many regards. That makes it controversial, which leads to heated debates.
And although we live in a grim, unfair and fucked up word. Can we at least debate here, assuming no one wants to actually personally attack the "other side"?
I mean, come on. We are all here, because we think the idea of CoE is at the very least interesting to us , yes?
I mean cancer.. it's funny right? It's not something that kills thousands of people every year.
Every respectable person calls things "cancer" it's completely natural.
It is warping people, their concepts and their behaviours. Therefore it's a bad thing, cancer is a bad thing so this thread is a cancer on the community
There are a dozen way to handle this, they chose to take a stand and implement one of the worst.
There are multiple reasons why this is a bad idea, and not a single one that makes sense. Anything the pro camp claims can easily be done with the head start and then a selective wipe right before launch.
People still get their 3 months of learning the game, which itself is a very big advantage in a game like this, at least if its as complex as everyone want to make it out to be. If you build something they could keep it in the world, it just wouldnt be owned. They could even give people preference on claiming the spots they had before the wipe (that would itself be questionable in other games).
Maybe theyre worried about the aging system and that once they start a character they cant stop it. But if you wipe them all does it matter? You just start all over again from 0. Unless they dont know how to integrate the titles and the perks and whatever other stuff they give people for backing the game. I mean we have all seen basically every game ever launched that gave free stuff to people screw up the delivery of that stuff.
In any event this is going ot make this game a lot more difficult to entice people into it. Not because of the headstart itself but because of the decision they made and the reasons they made and the compromise they gave to appease people. But I am sure as this games moves forward there will be more and more bad decisions made that will make even more and more people leery of it.
Which like I said is sad because this is yet ANOTHER game with some pretty awesome concepts and ideas but completely ruined by horrible decision making by the people involved. If my suspicions are correct and this kickstarter was just an audition for them to persuade investor(s) to give them money then it will more than likely have more bad decisions made beyond their own going forward.
What i just said three posts back...
"Thinking back to SWG, 3 months would have been a pretty good amount of time to build up some infrastructure; cities/shuttles, established crafters with decent goods, variety in gear available, etc..etc..etc..
Compared to what SWG was at release that actually would have been great IMO. It was a good while before even basic gear was readily available, not to mention buffs, tools, parts, so on and so forth.
I can't really see how this would have been a bad thing in that game. Assuming COE is as community/RP driven of course."
How could that be achievable with a wipe and typical 3-day headstart?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The game is about STORY it is meant to be inequal, since that drives story, and besides you won't need the best stats or equipment if you specialize in 1 thing you will be good at it fast...Just read up on the game a bit first before you start criticizing it for a thing you don't understand or get at all because you lack the information to do so... Check out the Design Journals at least on the page, here is the link, I saved the time to search for it: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog
So I've been covering this game for the past 6-7 months, I (and skeptics like me) have posed all of these questions and more to Jeromy Walsh himself and his readiness to respond has always astounded me, so rest assured that everything has been thought of. Every potential problem has a contingency. The exposition and the pre-game IP (Influence Points) rewards are the answer to my biggest question I've had with the game.
"What happens at the start of the game? Are we going to have thousands, potentially millions, of 12-year-olds thrust into a world akin to Lord of the Flies?"
Much like the closed Alphas and Betas, players that are playing in this world aren't just playing the game. They are helping the developers make the game as good as it can possibly be. The closed tests are about fine-tuning mechanics and stress testing, while the exposition is something completely different. These players' jobs are not gain an advantage in the world, is meant to fill the world out and make it vibrant and alive. Some will might make themselves kings, others might start mapping the world, you might just want to be a humble shoe salesman.
The IP is another part of answering that question. Its why the game is going to kickstarter, and it's why the game would never work without one.
"They have more items than the rest of the players, that means they have an advantage."
In a traditional game, you're entirely correct. However, take everything you understand about traditional MMOs, and ignore that for a moment. There is no "gear race." No best in slot armor, no end-game bosses, no win conditions. You would be better off thinking of this game as a Survival game first, with thousands of people in the same server as me. In our private forumns, we already (think we) know who one of the kings that bought into the $10,000 tier is. That player has a huge target on their back. Up-and-coming assassins' guilds, wannabe leaders, jealous ex-girlfriends all want to make sure that the king either loses their power, or greases their palms. The pieces of land, mules, clothing, etc. that are being handed out in the lower tiers will have the same effect on those players owning those items, just on a smaller scale. Somebody out there wants the things that you have, and you're going to have to go the extra mile to protect your posessions.
The point is that they aren't any better off than you are. Its the same reason why players that come into the world seven years after the game is released won't be at any kind of disadvantage. Simply because there is no real advantage. There are only players that are doing what they want to do, for now.
"Players with early access will know more about the world, which in itself is an advantage."
In whatever it is that they have focused their time and resources on, yes. That is an advantage. How would a new player learn how to play the game? This is a tricky one to answer, since we don't know if there will be a tutorial before a player jumps into the game. Teaching other players is a responsibility that will fall onto the players. There is a handful of things that go into making sure players aren't totally selfish.
The first is the family system. Players will have the choice to start in a family, anybody in that family will pass down their skills (read: genetics) into their offspring. Even when the older members of the family teach the younger player, they will still knowledge in whatever it is they are teaching them. Much like I am learning even more about the game right now when I try to come up with ways to explain it. There are plenty of other family based mechanics that promote them working together, which provides an incentive for players to make sure everybody in their family is strong.
Then we have cities and towns. Each player will likely start in a city, the same place where the family lives. Here we get more into politics so I won't dwell on too much. But essentially, if the people in the kingdom aren't happy, then the leadership will know about it. Hopefully through democratic methods, before their heads are on a stake.
Whether its 90 days or 4 years, these mechanics are going to be how a player learns how to play the game in the earlier portions.
Hopefully that clears it up. All of the mechanics in the game work in tandem with each other to fix any issues they would have on their own. So I can totally understand how missing a couple pieces of the puzzle is what is confusing a lot of people. But I reiterate, any question you come up with, Soulbound has heard them and have an answer to it.