When the Elder Scrolls console release was "delayed" - as said above it was always planned for console even been down as a PS4 launch title - ardent Elder Scrolls fans could have - assuming the had a PC / suitable PC of course - gone and got the PC version.
Some may well have done.
When Zenimax announced the delay however they also said they hoped to have things fixed by Christmas. So some people will have simply played something else.
Also the PC version had a sub whereas a PS4 player paying for PSN would not have expected a sub. Again - possibly - prompting them to wait. Indeed some people will, probably, have simply decided not to buy because it had a sub.
I don't buy the last part. FFXIV has a subscription even if you only play it on PS3/4. PSN is for Online Access, but Subscription Service are typically exempt so you don't need PSN to play a Subscription Game like FFXIV online, period.
And most people will get PSN/XBL simply because it's dead cheap and there's enough other stuff that is restricted by not having it to make it a bit of a no brainer. You can often find the 1 year subscription codes on sale at Amazon and other sites, as well.
No one expects Netflix to be free simply because they're only going to access it from a Console or other similar device. This is no different.
The reason why ESO had to drop the sub is because the game, while decent, just wasn't good enough to justify the subscription.
And even now, it's hard to justify the subscription considering what you get for it, unless you buy a lot of stuff from the crown store.
So what Sean is saying is it's all about mobile games and they are the best....ok Sean whatever you say buddy
I guess I will just keep responding over and over again as long as people keep jumping on my shit.
what I am saying is that
'console gaming is NOT what its 'all about'
I am not saying mobile is better, I am not saying PC is better, I am not even addressing who is king of the hill. It would not matter or change my view if consoles where number 2 on that list its not 'all about' any ONE of them.
shall we keep talking about this or are we done yet?
my suggestion to you is to NOT reply to this
You think it's all about the mobile games mobile is better than PC mobile is better than console mobile is better than VR we know Sean mobile is where it's at
I dont think its 'all about' any of them but you would be more accurate then saying its all about consoles.
thanks for being at least a little bit reasonable
I never said its all about console but you have ten times now posted how mobile is #1
So what Sean is saying is it's all about mobile games and they are the best....ok Sean whatever you say buddy
I guess I will just keep responding over and over again as long as people keep jumping on my shit.
what I am saying is that
'console gaming is NOT what its 'all about'
I am not saying mobile is better, I am not saying PC is better, I am not even addressing who is king of the hill. It would not matter or change my view if consoles where number 2 on that list its not 'all about' any ONE of them.
shall we keep talking about this or are we done yet?
my suggestion to you is to NOT reply to this
You think it's all about the mobile games mobile is better than PC mobile is better than console mobile is better than VR we know Sean mobile is where it's at
I dont think its 'all about' any of them but you would be more accurate then saying its all about consoles.
thanks for being at least a little bit reasonable
I never said its all about console but you have ten times now posted how mobile is #1
like I said, that is more accurate then the comment that people have been aruging with me about for a hour.
are we now done yet?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
its not 'all' about any of these plaftorms its about all of them, I know that sounds like a PC bias but its not to those who can...well...think
One person said back on page one "Unfortunately, it is all about consoles for most people" and you go on and on and on about people saying it is all about consoles. One person said it. 5 pages back. Just stop. You have hijacked the thread long enough over one sentence from one post.
Yes that is exactly right.
if people want me to stop going on about it then maybe they could stop responding to me and telling me that i am wrong.
just a crazy thought given the lowest earner in the gaming industry outside of board games is consoles.
every reply I have made in the past however many pages is to reply to someone who is telling me i am wrong...unreasonable? yeah I guess that is crazyness
You are wrong. These are the stats. So I would ask you this, do you consider your grandmother playing slots on Kongregate a PC game? If so then, yes, PC Gaming accounts for $32billion. If no, then PC Gaming accounts for $27 billion. Sorry, that's just how it is. The numbers are broken down plainly and simply right there in front of you and come from the same source you are quoting. So which is it? So are web games now PC Games?
OH! and it doesn't actually mention PC Games earning $32 billion, it says "Computer Screen" PC/MMO Games are LITERALLY mentioned as making $26.78 billion. Not that it really matters because the fact that PC gaming is healthy should be enough.
You are wrong. These are the stats. So I would ask you this, do you consider your grandmother playing slots on Kongregate a PC game? If so then, yes, PC Gaming accounts for $32billion. If no, then PC Gaming accounts for $27 billion. Sorry, that's just how it is. The numbers are broken down plainly and simply right there in front of you and come from the same source you are quoting. So which is it? So are web games now PC Games?
what matters to a business doing something that comes remotely close to anything like an 'all about'
is CASH.
be it grandma or not, cash is king when someone says 'its all about...'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
So what Sean is saying is it's all about mobile games and they are the best....ok Sean whatever you say buddy
I guess I will just keep responding over and over again as long as people keep jumping on my shit.
what I am saying is that
'console gaming is NOT what its 'all about'
I am not saying mobile is better, I am not saying PC is better, I am not even addressing who is king of the hill. It would not matter or change my view if consoles where number 2 on that list its not 'all about' any ONE of them.
shall we keep talking about this or are we done yet?
my suggestion to you is to NOT reply to this
You think it's all about the mobile games mobile is better than PC mobile is better than console mobile is better than VR we know Sean mobile is where it's at
I dont think its 'all about' any of them but you would be more accurate then saying its all about consoles.
thanks for being at least a little bit reasonable
I never said its all about console but you have ten times now posted how mobile is #1
like I said, that is more accurate then the comment that people have been aruging with me about for a hour.
are we now done yet?
Oh no I'd like to let you know how consoles have more sales then steam and VR combined so using your logic consoles destroy steam and VR correct?
So what Sean is saying is it's all about mobile games and they are the best....ok Sean whatever you say buddy
I guess I will just keep responding over and over again as long as people keep jumping on my shit.
what I am saying is that
'console gaming is NOT what its 'all about'
I am not saying mobile is better, I am not saying PC is better, I am not even addressing who is king of the hill. It would not matter or change my view if consoles where number 2 on that list its not 'all about' any ONE of them.
shall we keep talking about this or are we done yet?
my suggestion to you is to NOT reply to this
You think it's all about the mobile games mobile is better than PC mobile is better than console mobile is better than VR we know Sean mobile is where it's at
I dont think its 'all about' any of them but you would be more accurate then saying its all about consoles.
thanks for being at least a little bit reasonable
I never said its all about console but you have ten times now posted how mobile is #1
like I said, that is more accurate then the comment that people have been aruging with me about for a hour.
are we now done yet?
Oh no I'd like to let you know how consoles have more sales then steam and VR combined so using your logic consoles destroy steam and VR correct?
now THAT is not even related.
Not sure but I know your trying to get me into a fan boy mode and its not working clearly. keep trying though if you like.
what am I say
'its not ALL...
(all meaning exclusive, as in all of gaming is about one device)
about Consoles"
its also not 'ALL' about VR nor is it 'ALL' about mobile nor is it 'ALL' about PC
do you understand yet?
if any of those items where more lie the 1% or 2% of earners then you can start to play with the 'all' statement but as it is they are 'all' fairly close in revenue
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
So what Sean is saying is it's all about mobile games and they are the best....ok Sean whatever you say buddy
I guess I will just keep responding over and over again as long as people keep jumping on my shit.
what I am saying is that
'console gaming is NOT what its 'all about'
I am not saying mobile is better, I am not saying PC is better, I am not even addressing who is king of the hill. It would not matter or change my view if consoles where number 2 on that list its not 'all about' any ONE of them.
shall we keep talking about this or are we done yet?
my suggestion to you is to NOT reply to this
You think it's all about the mobile games mobile is better than PC mobile is better than console mobile is better than VR we know Sean mobile is where it's at
I dont think its 'all about' any of them but you would be more accurate then saying its all about consoles.
thanks for being at least a little bit reasonable
I never said its all about console but you have ten times now posted how mobile is #1
like I said, that is more accurate then the comment that people have been aruging with me about for a hour.
are we now done yet?
Oh no I'd like to let you know how consoles have more sales then steam and VR combined so using your logic consoles destroy steam and VR correct?
now THAT is not even related.
Not sure but I know your trying to get me into a fan boy mode and its not working clearly. keep trying though if you like.
what am I say
'its not ALL...
(all meaning exclusive, as in all of gaming is about one device)
about Consoles"
its also not 'ALL' about VR nor is it 'ALL' about mobile nor is it 'ALL' about PC
do you understand yet?
Nobody said its all about the console do you understand that? But you have states ten times its all about mobile games...c'mon buddy you are failng worse here then over at your ms crusade.
So what Sean is saying is it's all about mobile games and they are the best....ok Sean whatever you say buddy
I guess I will just keep responding over and over again as long as people keep jumping on my shit.
what I am saying is that
'console gaming is NOT what its 'all about'
I am not saying mobile is better, I am not saying PC is better, I am not even addressing who is king of the hill. It would not matter or change my view if consoles where number 2 on that list its not 'all about' any ONE of them.
shall we keep talking about this or are we done yet?
my suggestion to you is to NOT reply to this
You think it's all about the mobile games mobile is better than PC mobile is better than console mobile is better than VR we know Sean mobile is where it's at
I dont think its 'all about' any of them but you would be more accurate then saying its all about consoles.
thanks for being at least a little bit reasonable
I never said its all about console but you have ten times now posted how mobile is #1
like I said, that is more accurate then the comment that people have been aruging with me about for a hour.
are we now done yet?
Oh no I'd like to let you know how consoles have more sales then steam and VR combined so using your logic consoles destroy steam and VR correct?
now THAT is not even related.
Not sure but I know your trying to get me into a fan boy mode and its not working clearly. keep trying though if you like.
what am I say
'its not ALL...
(all meaning exclusive, as in all of gaming is about one device)
about Consoles"
its also not 'ALL' about VR nor is it 'ALL' about mobile nor is it 'ALL' about PC
do you understand yet?
Nobody said its all about the console do you understand that? But you have states ten times its all about mobile games...c'mon buddy you are failng worse here then over at your ms crusade.
you are wrong.
someone did say it and I responded and then everyone here has been fighting me over it for abotu 2 hours now.
my response was that its not 'all about consoles' for two reasons 1. its not all about any single platform 2. if one is to pick one as the 'all' it clearly would not be the LOWEST earner for them all.
I have been saying that now for about 20 times
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
unfortunately, right now its all about consoles for most people . ..
Yep We PC gamers need to except this. Its just so much easier to build games around consoles because of the fixed hardware. People are getting tired of upgrading their PC to play new games. Now you can just wait for it to come to consoles and play from your couch. In the past i've spent thousands upgrading my PC for games. Now that i'm older i really can't do that as real life is more important.
this is what has caused about an hour of endless stupid conversation.
its not about consoles. console player are the lowest earner and the lowest in population of the three segments but more importantly its not about any one of them its about all of them
more over, what matters when a company decides to do something is money...if its aging grandma that is bringing in more money playing Farmville then your teenage boy then that is what drives decisions more so then the teenage boy.
people need to for a moment remove their blindly obvious and painfully clear bias in favor of consoles its beyond silly.
and if they dont want to argue about it or hear about it or think its derailing then they need to stop responding
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
You are wrong. These are the stats. So I would ask you this, do you consider your grandmother playing slots on Kongregate a PC game? If so then, yes, PC Gaming accounts for $32billion. If no, then PC Gaming accounts for $27 billion. Sorry, that's just how it is. The numbers are broken down plainly and simply right there in front of you and come from the same source you are quoting. So which is it? So are web games now PC Games?
what matters to a business doing something that comes remotely close to anything like an 'all about'
is CASH.
be it grandma or not, cash is king when someone says 'its all about...'
You never answered the question. Are you saying that a web game IS a PC game?
You are wrong. These are the stats. So I would ask you this, do you consider your grandmother playing slots on Kongregate a PC game? If so then, yes, PC Gaming accounts for $32billion. If no, then PC Gaming accounts for $27 billion. Sorry, that's just how it is. The numbers are broken down plainly and simply right there in front of you and come from the same source you are quoting. So which is it? So are web games now PC Games?
what matters to a business doing something that comes remotely close to anything like an 'all about'
is CASH.
be it grandma or not, cash is king when someone says 'its all about...'
You never answered the question. Are you saying that a web game IS a PC game?
I have no idea whatsoever and it doesnt even come remote close to countering what I said for more than one reason.
its not 'all about consoles'
and consoles are on the bottom of the revenue chain
webbased grandma game being a PC game or not doesnt come remotely close to change that
would somoeone PLEASE get off this PC tit for a second
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
unfortunately, right now its all about consoles for most people . ..
Yep We PC gamers need to except this. Its just so much easier to build games around consoles because of the fixed hardware. People are getting tired of upgrading their PC to play new games. Now you can just wait for it to come to consoles and play from your couch. In the past i've spent thousands upgrading my PC for games. Now that i'm older i really can't do that as real life is more important.
this is what has caused about an hour of endless stupid conversation.
its not about consoles. console player are the lowest earner and the lowest in population of the three segments but more importantly its not about any one of them its about all of them
more over, what matters when a company decides to do something is money...if its aging grandma that is bringing in more money playing Farmville then your teenage boy then that is what drives decisions more so then the teenage boy.
people need to for a moment remove their blindly obvious and painfully clear bias in favor of consoles its beyond silly.
and if they dont want to argue about it or hear about it or think its derailing then they need to stop responding
No it was you talking about steam having double the members of console which is a lie, then how steam has more sales then consoles yep another lie, then how mobile games are #1 and they are all that matters. That's how we got to where we are...
unfortunately, right now its all about consoles for most people . ..
Yep We PC gamers need to except this. Its just so much easier to build games around consoles because of the fixed hardware. People are getting tired of upgrading their PC to play new games. Now you can just wait for it to come to consoles and play from your couch. In the past i've spent thousands upgrading my PC for games. Now that i'm older i really can't do that as real life is more important.
this is what has caused about an hour of endless stupid conversation.
its not about consoles. console player are the lowest earner and the lowest in population of the three segments but more importantly its not about any one of them its about all of them
more over, what matters when a company decides to do something is money...if its aging grandma that is bringing in more money playing Farmville then your teenage boy then that is what drives decisions more so then the teenage boy.
people need to for a moment remove their blindly obvious and painfully clear bias in favor of consoles its beyond silly.
and if they dont want to argue about it or hear about it or think its derailing then they need to stop responding
No it was you talking about steam having double the members of console which is a lie, then how steam has more sales then consoles yep another lie, then how mobile games are #1 and they are all that matters. That's how we got to where we are...
pretty good memmory for somoene who said 'nobody said'
'unfortunately, right now its all about consoles for most people .'
lol
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
You are wrong. These are the stats. So I would ask you this, do you consider your grandmother playing slots on Kongregate a PC game? If so then, yes, PC Gaming accounts for $32billion. If no, then PC Gaming accounts for $27 billion. Sorry, that's just how it is. The numbers are broken down plainly and simply right there in front of you and come from the same source you are quoting. So which is it? So are web games now PC Games?
what matters to a business doing something that comes remotely close to anything like an 'all about'
is CASH.
be it grandma or not, cash is king when someone says 'its all about...'
You never answered the question. Are you saying that a web game IS a PC game?
I have no idea whatsoever and it doesnt even come remote close to countering what I said for more than one reason.
its not 'all about consoles'
and consoles are on the bottom of the revenue chain
webbased grandma game being a PC game or not doesnt come remotely close to change that
would somoeone PLEASE get off this PC tit for a second
Well I'm glad you can admit you're wrong.
Actually there is supporting statistics here as well that show 2016 revenues for PC and MMO gaming being at 27 billion.
I don't know why you would ask people to get off this "PC tit" since, and I quote,
" I have a link I posted just yesterday I will find it
In sales dollars
1. Mobile 2. PC 3. Console
console is currently on the bottom I will find it again and post it "
When that is clearly inaccurate based on LITERALLY the exact stats you were referring to. I'm not saying that PC Gaming is dead or anything of the sort. In fact, it's increasing year-over-year. I'm just saying you're wrong and that the LITERAL interpretation of the numbers you're referring to is right there. They LITERALLY spell it out as PC/MMO Games being $27 billion.
Soooooooooooooooo, you're wrong.
Edit: Actually, CNBC is wrong. Sorry. Technically it's their fault for misrepresenting the precise data that they're referencing, even though it's literally staring them straight in the face.
unfortunately, right now its all about consoles for most people . ..
Yep We PC gamers need to except this. Its just so much easier to build games around consoles because of the fixed hardware. People are getting tired of upgrading their PC to play new games. Now you can just wait for it to come to consoles and play from your couch. In the past i've spent thousands upgrading my PC for games. Now that i'm older i really can't do that as real life is more important.
this is what has caused about an hour of endless stupid conversation.
its not about consoles. console player are the lowest earner and the lowest in population of the three segments but more importantly its not about any one of them its about all of them
more over, what matters when a company decides to do something is money...if its aging grandma that is bringing in more money playing Farmville then your teenage boy then that is what drives decisions more so then the teenage boy.
people need to for a moment remove their blindly obvious and painfully clear bias in favor of consoles its beyond silly.
and if they dont want to argue about it or hear about it or think its derailing then they need to stop responding
No it was you talking about steam having double the members of console which is a lie, then how steam has more sales then consoles yep another lie, then how mobile games are #1 and they are all that matters. That's how we got to where we are...
pretty good memmory for somoene who said 'nobody said'
'unfortunately, right now its all about consoles for most people .'
lol
Except its all about mobile games for you. And it's not a memory issue I just didn't read that one comment out of 7 pages that put you in a little Temper tantrum. We have already discussed and you admitted the old timer memory issues not me. But hey it's alway fun on slow work days watching your temper tantrums but the work week is over I'm off spend time with friends and family you enjoy your solo crusade against MS and playing your #1 mobile games alone.
unfortunately, right now its all about consoles for most people . ..
Yep We PC gamers need to except this. Its just so much easier to build games around consoles because of the fixed hardware. People are getting tired of upgrading their PC to play new games. Now you can just wait for it to come to consoles and play from your couch. In the past i've spent thousands upgrading my PC for games. Now that i'm older i really can't do that as real life is more important.
this is what has caused about an hour of endless stupid conversation.
its not about consoles. console player are the lowest earner and the lowest in population of the three segments but more importantly its not about any one of them its about all of them
more over, what matters when a company decides to do something is money...if its aging grandma that is bringing in more money playing Farmville then your teenage boy then that is what drives decisions more so then the teenage boy.
people need to for a moment remove their blindly obvious and painfully clear bias in favor of consoles its beyond silly.
and if they dont want to argue about it or hear about it or think its derailing then they need to stop responding
No it was you talking about steam having double the members of console which is a lie, then how steam has more sales then consoles yep another lie, then how mobile games are #1 and they are all that matters. That's how we got to where we are...
pretty good memmory for somoene who said 'nobody said'
'unfortunately, right now its all about consoles for most people .'
lol
Except its all about mobile games for you. And it's not a memory issue I just didn't read that one comment out of 7 pages that put you in a little Temper tantrum. We have already discussed and you admitted the old timer memory issues not me. But hey it's alway fun on slow work days watching your temper tantrums but the work week is over I'm off spend time with friends and family you enjoy your solo crusade against MS and playing your #1 mobile games alone.
what are you talking about right now? I have no idea what that has to do with anything here.
well thanks for sharing i guess can I keep this quote?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
<snip> Also the PC version had a sub whereas a PS4 player paying for PSN would not have expected a sub. Again - possibly - prompting them to wait. Indeed some people will, probably, have simply decided not to buy because it had a sub.
I don't buy the last part. FFXIV has a subscription even if you only play it on PS3/4. PSN is for Online Access, but Subscription Service are typically exempt so you don't need PSN to play a Subscription Game like FFXIV online, period.
And most people will get PSN/XBL simply because it's dead cheap and there's enough other stuff that is restricted by not having it to make it a bit of a no brainer. You can often find the 1 year subscription codes on sale at Amazon and other sites, as well.
No one expects Netflix to be free simply because they're only going to access it from a Console or other similar device. This is no different.
The reason why ESO had to drop the sub is because the game, while decent, just wasn't good enough to justify the subscription.
And even now, it's hard to justify the subscription considering what you get for it, unless you buy a lot of stuff from the crown store.
An agreement had been reached with Sony for TESO - as a PS4 launch title - to have no subscription on PS4. No agreement had been reached with Microsoft, a sub would have been needed. Subsequent "rumours" - some months after the launch was pulled - suggested that TESO on PS4 - as a non-launch title - would need a sub. Nothing concrete either way though. And it all became moot when TESO announced that it was going B2P.
When the console launch was pulled a PS4 player who planned to play TESO at launch had a choice: wait or buy the PC version and pay a sub. Some probably bought the PC version; to suggest that the sub put no one off though ..... unlikely.
As to why it went B2P - nothing to do with whether the game could justify a sub. Zenimax made a financial calculation based on expected sales. With a sub "lower" sales but some percentage of people would stay subbed = $X; might be expected to produce some "free" content patches. Without a sub "higher " sales = $Y and the prospect of some "paid" content patches. Y was a bigger number than X. So they went B2P. Nothing to do with "was it good enough" everything to do with "what will make the most money".
And MF's comments in the interview support this - people bought the game (he suggests) because they could simply buy it and play it like Oblivion and Skyrim. Now whether it was so clear cut or whether they were simply looking to justify their changed model who knows.
Now as far as your comment about the sub being hard to justify I totally agree - specially as you can always buy crowns from the store. That said people who opt to pay a sub know exactly what they are getting; so I think that is good. And they probably get more than WoW subscribers as well !
"All told, the combination of Tamriel Unlimited and the console launch, "opened up the game to millions of people."
"That's
actually new players," Firor adds. "It's been huge. Bethesda doesn't
talk numbers, but it's been huge... It was way beyond our expectations,
and it was mostly because players could knew they could buy it just like
they did with Oblivion and Skyrim."
You failed to highlight the more interesting part of the quote. Bethesda doesn't talk numbers? Excuse me? When it's Skyrim Bethesda talks numbers early and often. I think they even started printing it on the box.
"All told, the combination of Tamriel Unlimited and the console launch, "opened up the game to millions of people."
"That's
actually new players," Firor adds. "It's been huge. Bethesda doesn't
talk numbers, but it's been huge... It was way beyond our expectations,
and it was mostly because players could knew they could buy it just like
they did with Oblivion and Skyrim."
You failed to highlight the more interesting part of the quote. Bethesda doesn't talk numbers? Excuse me? When it's Skyrim Bethesda talks numbers early and often. I think they even started printing it on the box.
They don't actually talk numbers. They talk milestones. They will say at some points they've sold over x number of units.
I think the environment is a little different for online games. Like I said in a couple of posts the perception of player numbers can cause a lemming effect. Game sites and forums make big deals out of games losing players, just look at all the threads measuring decline in WoW numbers or how Wildstar is doomed.
I doubt it's over 10M or he would likely have said it's over 10M sold. But it's comfortably in between 5M and 10M, based on past marketing blurbs, which is really good. It doesn't need to have WoW numbers (I'm sure they would love that), just enough to please management and have further development of endless DLC. :chuffed:
The important part of the article is he said it exceeded expectations, so it's not an underperformer. It's been successful enough that they would consider going this direction with another IP. It would be very cool to play a Fallout mmo ESO style.
They talk about numbers whenever it suits them but mostly they just go for bullshit (like many other companies). First thing was how it wasn't an MMO and firor continue with the same bullshit. They gave the standard bullshit of 5M registered for beta, they talked about console players outnumbering the PC players (at console launch), they talk about millions of buyers.
ZoS promised content updates every 4-6 weeks and they gave up on that promise when they did layoffs on devs that weren't needed anymore. They gave up on subscription model because people kept leaving the game.
Given how bad the game had done as a PC subscription game I'm fairly sure their expectations for the console release was low and the sales exceeded those expectations. That's not to say that elder scrolls online is doing poorly, if they weren't earning money they wouldn't release dlc.
What would be interesting to know is their retention, how many people stick around all the time and how many return for the dlc releases. Are we talking hundreds of thousands or over a million. Those things matter more than copies sold.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
why is everyone talking about numbers of players in existing game anyway. Its already been illustrated that they had planned to go console a long time ago anyway
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
"All told, the combination of Tamriel Unlimited and the console launch, "opened up the game to millions of people."
"That's
actually new players," Firor adds. "It's been huge. Bethesda doesn't
talk numbers, but it's been huge... It was way beyond our expectations,
and it was mostly because players could knew they could buy it just like
they did with Oblivion and Skyrim."
You failed to highlight the more interesting part of the quote. Bethesda doesn't talk numbers? Excuse me? When it's Skyrim Bethesda talks numbers early and often. I think they even started printing it on the box.
They don't actually talk numbers. They talk milestones. They will say at some points they've sold over x number of units.
I think the environment is a little different for online games. Like I said in a couple of posts the perception of player numbers can cause a lemming effect. Game sites and forums make big deals out of games losing players, just look at all the threads measuring decline in WoW numbers or how Wildstar is doomed.
I doubt it's over 10M or he would likely have said it's over 10M sold. But it's comfortably in between 5M and 10M, based on past marketing blurbs, which is really good. It doesn't need to have WoW numbers (I'm sure they would love that), just enough to please management and have further development of endless DLC. :chuffed:
The important part of the article is he said it exceeded expectations, so it's not an underperformer. It's been successful enough that they would consider going this direction with another IP. It would be very cool to play a Fallout mmo ESO style.
Wildstar didn't die because there was a perception that it was dying, it died because the game was bad and not enough people wanted to play it.
WoW isn't declining because people are talking about it declining, it's declining because the last expansion had about half the content a normal WoW expansion has and it's going through a 14 month content drought on top of that.
Back when Aion was "dying" shortly before the F2P conversion no one was talking about it dying because of what was stated in the color coded NCsoft earnings reports. People were talking about it dying because there weren't that many players around.
If the numbers are actually really good how would this cause a lemming effect? Or more accurately: if the numbers are really good how would dropping a milestone or two hurt anything? I understand for a subscription game where things can go down over time this is a big issue but for a B2P game you really only accumulate players over time there is far less to lose. I suppose it's possible they're simply saving up to announce a really big one like 10 million - but I'm skeptical.
The prospect of a fallout MMO is probably the most interesting part of the article. I had actually thought ESO's poor performance had killed the prospects for it but that was back before B2P or console release. Now that they've got a model that works for them it's far more likely. Maybe even inevitable if numbers are as good as you're saying.
Now as far as your comment about the sub being hard to justify I totally agree - specially as you can always buy crowns from the store. That said people who opt to pay a sub know exactly what they are getting; so I think that is good. And they probably get more than WoW subscribers as well !
This is about to change. Lost in the fine detail of the upcoming Dark Brotherhood DLC is one very significant core change that further incentivizes the sub option, the new ESO+ sub-only, bottomless crafting materials bag. It won't be available as a crown store purchase:
Craft Bags ESO Plus members will now receive access to the Craft Bag.
Craft Bags are an additional inventory section which does not count against your inventory limit, is shared across all characters on the account, and can hold an effectively unlimited number of all basic crafting supplies.
If your membership expires, you will still have access to the resources stored in your Craft Bag, but you will be unable to add any new materials to it.
Loot that goes to your Craft Bag has a special call out in the Loot History.
Crafting Materials from your inventory and account bank will automatically go to the Craft Bag upon login.
Items can be manually retrieved from the Craft Bag in maximum stacks of 200. Retrieved items can also be manually stowed back into the Craft Bag.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
And most people will get PSN/XBL simply because it's dead cheap and there's enough other stuff that is restricted by not having it to make it a bit of a no brainer. You can often find the 1 year subscription codes on sale at Amazon and other sites, as well.
No one expects Netflix to be free simply because they're only going to access it from a Console or other similar device. This is no different.
The reason why ESO had to drop the sub is because the game, while decent, just wasn't good enough to justify the subscription.
And even now, it's hard to justify the subscription considering what you get for it, unless you buy a lot of stuff from the crown store.
are we now done yet?
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You are wrong. These are the stats. So I would ask you this, do you consider your grandmother playing slots on Kongregate a PC game? If so then, yes, PC Gaming accounts for $32billion. If no, then PC Gaming accounts for $27 billion. Sorry, that's just how it is. The numbers are broken down plainly and simply right there in front of you and come from the same source you are quoting. So which is it? So are web games now PC Games?
OH! and it doesn't actually mention PC Games earning $32 billion, it says "Computer Screen" PC/MMO Games are LITERALLY mentioned as making $26.78 billion. Not that it really matters because the fact that PC gaming is healthy should be enough.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
is CASH.
be it grandma or not, cash is king when someone says 'its all about...'
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Not sure but I know your trying to get me into a fan boy mode and its not working clearly. keep trying though if you like.
what am I say
'its not ALL...
(all meaning exclusive, as in all of gaming is about one device)
about Consoles"
its also not 'ALL' about VR
nor is it 'ALL' about mobile
nor is it 'ALL' about PC
do you understand yet?
if any of those items where more lie the 1% or 2% of earners then you can start to play with the 'all' statement but as it is they are 'all' fairly close in revenue
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someone did say it and I responded and then everyone here has been fighting me over it for abotu 2 hours now.
my response was that its not 'all about consoles' for two reasons
1. its not all about any single platform
2. if one is to pick one as the 'all' it clearly would not be the LOWEST earner for them all.
I have been saying that now for about 20 times
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거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
its not about consoles. console player are the lowest earner and the lowest in population of the three segments but more importantly its not about any one of them its about all of them
more over, what matters when a company decides to do something is money...if its aging grandma that is bringing in more money playing Farmville then your teenage boy then that is what drives decisions more so then the teenage boy.
people need to for a moment remove their blindly obvious and painfully clear bias in favor of consoles its beyond silly.
and if they dont want to argue about it or hear about it or think its derailing then they need to stop responding
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
its not 'all about consoles'
and consoles are on the bottom of the revenue chain
webbased grandma game being a PC game or not doesnt come remotely close to change that
would somoeone PLEASE get off this PC tit for a second
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'unfortunately, right now its all about consoles for most people .'
lol
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거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Well I'm glad you can admit you're wrong.
Actually there is supporting statistics here as well that show 2016 revenues for PC and MMO gaming being at 27 billion.
I don't know why you would ask people to get off this "PC tit" since, and I quote,
"
I have a link I posted just yesterday I will find it
In sales dollars
1. Mobile
2. PC
3. Console
console is currently on the bottom I will find it again and post it
"
When that is clearly inaccurate based on LITERALLY the exact stats you were referring to. I'm not saying that PC Gaming is dead or anything of the sort. In fact, it's increasing year-over-year. I'm just saying you're wrong and that the LITERAL interpretation of the numbers you're referring to is right there. They LITERALLY spell it out as PC/MMO Games being $27 billion.
Soooooooooooooooo, you're wrong.
Edit: Actually, CNBC is wrong. Sorry. Technically it's their fault for misrepresenting the precise data that they're referencing, even though it's literally staring them straight in the face.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
well thanks for sharing i guess can I keep this quote?
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When the console launch was pulled a PS4 player who planned to play TESO at launch had a choice: wait or buy the PC version and pay a sub. Some probably bought the PC version; to suggest that the sub put no one off though ..... unlikely.
As to why it went B2P - nothing to do with whether the game could justify a sub. Zenimax made a financial calculation based on expected sales. With a sub "lower" sales but some percentage of people would stay subbed = $X; might be expected to produce some "free" content patches. Without a sub "higher " sales = $Y and the prospect of some "paid" content patches. Y was a bigger number than X. So they went B2P. Nothing to do with "was it good enough" everything to do with "what will make the most money".
And MF's comments in the interview support this - people bought the game (he suggests) because they could simply buy it and play it like Oblivion and Skyrim. Now whether it was so clear cut or whether they were simply looking to justify their changed model who knows.
Now as far as your comment about the sub being hard to justify I totally agree - specially as you can always buy crowns from the store. That said people who opt to pay a sub know exactly what they are getting; so I think that is good. And they probably get more than WoW subscribers as well !
ZoS promised content updates every 4-6 weeks and they gave up on that promise when they did layoffs on devs that weren't needed anymore. They gave up on subscription model because people kept leaving the game.
Given how bad the game had done as a PC subscription game I'm fairly sure their expectations for the console release was low and the sales exceeded those expectations. That's not to say that elder scrolls online is doing poorly, if they weren't earning money they wouldn't release dlc.
What would be interesting to know is their retention, how many people stick around all the time and how many return for the dlc releases. Are we talking hundreds of thousands or over a million. Those things matter more than copies sold.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
WoW isn't declining because people are talking about it declining, it's declining because the last expansion had about half the content a normal WoW expansion has and it's going through a 14 month content drought on top of that.
Back when Aion was "dying" shortly before the F2P conversion no one was talking about it dying because of what was stated in the color coded NCsoft earnings reports. People were talking about it dying because there weren't that many players around.
If the numbers are actually really good how would this cause a lemming effect? Or more accurately: if the numbers are really good how would dropping a milestone or two hurt anything? I understand for a subscription game where things can go down over time this is a big issue but for a B2P game you really only accumulate players over time there is far less to lose. I suppose it's possible they're simply saving up to announce a really big one like 10 million - but I'm skeptical.
The prospect of a fallout MMO is probably the most interesting part of the article. I had actually thought ESO's poor performance had killed the prospects for it but that was back before B2P or console release. Now that they've got a model that works for them it's far more likely. Maybe even inevitable if numbers are as good as you're saying.
Craft Bags
ESO Plus members will now receive access to the Craft Bag.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED